Soulbeast Feedback - Stance Skills

[ITheNormalPerson.9275]

> @Marcaum.1302 said:

> Apart from what @"ITheNormalPerson.9275" tested, there is also a HUGE negative side to the Stance when compared to Sharperning Stone that people seem to be failing to see: When i pop Sharpening Stone, I have all the time in the world to shoot my targets for it to proc. Using the Stance, I have ridiculous FOUR SECONDS to dish all the blows I can. That means that if I have to reposition, dodge, or if I get downed, stunned, knocked back/down after I pop the Stance, it all goes to waste until I can try again 30 seconds later.

>

> I think it is totally fair to say Sharpening Stone is BLATANTLY stronger than Vulture Stance for this reason alone. Again, guys, more real world testing, less punch bag testing.

>

>

 

I definitely do agree with your sentiment, and even closed off my post with "Though, in raids and fractals, I would still probably recommend sharpening stone just due to the ease of use.", trying to imply that point. However, a few things are worth nothing. Firstly, it's 6 seconds untraited, not 4. You can check in game if you wish, unless the increased duration is unintentional then yeah, it isn't great. Secondly, I specifically tested with just over 50% efficacy for that reason. If you are hitting higher rates, you will outdamage sharpening stones easily. and with skills like one wolf pack, ticking traps, and what have you - of which I used none of - you can hit much higher to 100%. And most meta builds and benchmarks are designed around the concept of maximizing damage, even if it reduces reliability for the casual player. Hence why, when speaking of meta builds, it is a point worth mentioning. And if you add that concept to a stance-shared vulture's stance, of which it was already out-damaging sharpening stone before sharing, AND with less than perfect efficacy, it becomes an even more viable, or perhaps optimal choice.

 

And before it seems this way, I'm not disagreeing with you. I do think sharpening stone is still a better choice for a majority of players, assuming you aren't stance-sharing. Just to say it's "BLATANTLY stronger" is a bit of a falsehood. I don't think either are yet to be seen as **realistically** stronger, though one is objectively stronger currently, and it's vulture stance. And while that may not be the defining choice, it is worth mentioning.

[Professor Sprout.1560]

@"Marcaum.1302" Nine seconds, not four. The patch reduced to four seconds only the duration of the might/poison provided by the skill, so it remains at 6 seconds base x1.5=9 if traited. With that amount of time to play with I think you could out DPS Sharpening Stone under real conditions fairly often, at least if the following calculations are anything to go by.

 

Using the [build posted above](http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAVnE8C1sgNrAm8Cs8iFDBjJAM6KdNdgUXVL/62dDvVwUK-jRSAQBA4BAsuFGCpSDDcBAio6PBUHgX2HQmKB/oyMSBsoyK-e) at 25 stacks of might (no other buffs) Sharpening Stone does 4116 damage per hit and Vulture Stance does 1662 damage per hit. Sharpening Stone will basically always hit 10 times for 41160 damage; 41160÷1662=24.7(1dp), so you will need to land 25 hits to pull ahead on damage assuming no other procs. In fact this build runs Predator's Cunning which deals an extra 185 damage per hit so the real sum is 41160÷1847=22.6(1dp) or 23 hits, but I'm not confident that allies who receive the stance proc the trait so I'll use the figure of 25 for now.

 

25 hits across 9 seconds averages to 2.7 hits per second, basically the same as the figure quoted by @"ITheNormalPerson.9275" for autoing crossfire whilst enjoying the benefit of quickness. So you're right, with these values Vulture Stance will fall behind unless you're attacking for the entire runtime: you have no flexibility to dodge or take a hit. However, treating this as our conclusion would be to ignore an important assumption that was inherent in our calculations: that we ignore the contribution provided by our allies.

 

As Vulture Stance is shared across multiple players the total effective duration of the skill increases - as a result, the average number of hits per second needed to reach our goal decreases as follows (rounded to 1dp):

1 beneficiary: 25÷9=2.7

2 beneficiaries: 25÷12=2.1

3 beneficiaries: 25÷15=1.7

4 beneficiaries: 25÷18=1.4

5 beneficiaries: 25÷21=1.2

 

This means that in fact Vulture Stance becomes stronger under "real world" rather than "punch bag" conditions relative to Sharpening Stone, and for my own part I'm willing to risk the rare occasion that my party will fail to average 1 hit/sec as a fair tradeoff for the situations where my party will average much higher and the DPS of this skill will really pull ahead: compared with the max potential damage of Sharpening Stone (4116x10=41160) Vulture Stance on this build has a max potential damage of 1662*4*21=139608. Which is pretty reasonable damage I think you'll agree.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Marcaum.1302 said:

> **Sharpening Stone** (bleeding) was nerfed and still outdps **Vulture Instance** (poison/might) on a poison focused build (100% poison duration) even after it was "buffed". Just sad.

 

Does that also include the damage and heal steal trait brings?

[AnariiUK.7409]

> @"Professor Sprout.1560" said:

> As Vulture Stance is shared across multiple players the total effective duration of the skill increases - as a result, the average number of hits per second needed to reach our goal decreases as follows (rounded to 1dp):

> 1 beneficiary: 25÷9=2.7

> 2 beneficiaries: 25÷12=2.1

> 3 beneficiaries: 25÷15=1.7

> 4 beneficiaries: 25÷18=1.4

> 5 beneficiaries: 25÷21=1.2

>

> This means that in fact Vulture Stance becomes stronger under "real world" rather than "punch bag" conditions relative to Sharpening Stone, and for my own part I'm willing to risk the rare occasion that my party will fail to average 1 hit/sec as a fair tradeoff for the situations where my party will average much higher and the DPS of this skill will really pull ahead: compared with the max potential damage of Sharpening Stone (4116x10=41160) Vulture Stance on this build has a max potential damage of 1662*4*21=139608. Which is pretty reasonable damage I think you'll agree.

 

This all looks good, I thought I'd also point out that traited Vulture stance shares to 5-allies (in addition to the Soulbeast itself) making for a total of 6 targets.

 

So far it's looking really good for raids (I've been averaging around +3k DPS from the stance sharing alone).

 

[Prophet.1584]

if we had a trait similar to what necro's do that would allow us to apply another condition (bleed, burn, tormen, confusion) each time we apply poison to a foe we could be really strong. I think i'm going to test something like this later:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAof4fnUqAl8idrAurAs8iFDBjJAM6aA5V3ub4tpDEsqalI+UA-jFiHQBA4kAQP1fq1TAQjKBJn+hgsPABV+5sFGCAcAMexDgxHf8xHf8K+4jP+4jP+4jPepAgYsF-w

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Prophet.1584 said:

> if we had a trait similar to what necro's do that would allow us to apply another condition (bleed, burn, tormen, confusion) each time we apply poison to a foe we could be really strong.

 

That would be SO broken. Considering Dagger and Vulture Stance

 

 

[ProtoMarcus.7649]

> @Prophet.1584 said:

> if we had a trait similar to what necro's do that would allow us to apply another condition (bleed, burn, tormen, confusion) each time we apply poison to a foe we could be really strong. I think i'm going to test something like this later:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAof4fnUqAl8idrAurAs8iFDBjJAM6aA5V3ub4tpDEsqalI+UA-jFiHQBA4kAQP1fq1TAQjKBJn+hgsPABV+5sFGCAcAMexDgxHf8xHf8K+4jP+4jP+4jPepAgYsF-w

 

I much prefer the old idea of having a trait that'd apply poison whenever we'd apply cripple - it would add incredible synergy with Sword, GS, Shortbow, LB and some traits and utility skills.

 

For reference, see Revenant's 'Abyssal Chill' trait - torment whenever someone is chilled

[Lazze.9870]

Three out of four utility stances on the warrior are defensive ones, because that's what the skill type does best. Not that all soulbeast stances should have been defensive utility skills, in fact, Dolyak and a proper version of Griffon would have been enough.

 

But it's like the design team disagreed on what they wanted, and added a little bit of everything. A heal and a stability stance that fit the "stance bill" (although Bear could do with a short resistance application), Moa stance that is good (but situational, I personaly always find better alternatives on my skill bar), Vulture stance that never will have any use outside pve as long as the number works out in raids and fractals (if not, it's back to the trash bin), the **useless** Griffon stance that at least should give us Vigor aswell as the endurance effect if they so desperately want to push that skill any further, and finally the elite that is still a gimmick (maybe if it had a quicker activation and some might and fury - two elite specs later, and I'm still always running entangle and sotp in pvp and wvw).

 

And as cool as sharing the stances is, the trait is the sole reason they can't buff these stances to give the ranger stances that feel as impactful as the warrior ones. When you get a stance that feels like a different version of Sharpening Stones, it doesn't really feel like a "stance skill" at all. Traited it feels like thief's venoms. Almost makes you wonder why they just didn't give us venoms and save stances for a pvp oriented elite spec.

 

The more I think of this elite spec, the more annoyed I become with the potential it had (a good mechanic, that lacks pet swap in beastmode, something I now doubt they will ever give us) and how they almost tried to push a "bruiser" and a damage elite spec into one. I would honestly been more happy with this spec if it was just there to give power ranger a place in pve again. I'm sure I would have found use for it in pvp anyway, if it retained the core SB mechanic of pet merging. After all, the only reason to run SB in those modes is the additional burst/damage potential anyway. You usualy don't run stances, and you never run dagger.

[Lazze.9870]

> @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

> > @Prophet.1584 said:

> > if we had a trait similar to what necro's do that would allow us to apply another condition (bleed, burn, tormen, confusion) each time we apply poison to a foe we could be really strong. I think i'm going to test something like this later:

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAof4fnUqAl8idrAurAs8iFDBjJAM6aA5V3ub4tpDEsqalI+UA-jFiHQBA4kAQP1fq1TAQjKBJn+hgsPABV+5sFGCAcAMexDgxHf8xHf8K+4jP+4jP+4jPepAgYsF-w

>

> I much prefer the old idea of having a trait that'd apply poison whenever we'd apply cripple - it would add incredible synergy with Sword, GS, Shortbow, LB and some traits and utility skills.

>

> For reference, see Revenant's 'Abyssal Chill' trait - torment whenever someone is chilled

 

It would have uses on our power weapons. A build that runs power weapons might aswell pick refined toxins if you want the poison uptime.

If it's for pve, I have no clue why you would ever find poison on cripple useful.

 

Sounds awful. Would have been awful.

[Kraitan.8476]

'two elite specs later, and I'm still always running entangle and sotp in pvp and wvw'

Yeah man, Feelsbadman...

After the balance patch (which included mostly bugfixes & mountskins btw) I still can't get soulbeast to work properly in pvp/wvw. It's really frustrating to think about what it could have been vs. what it is indeed. Just some numerical changes won't fix this spec so I'm not expecting Anet to fix it anytime soon @ this rate.

Back to Holo!

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @Kraitan.8476 said:

> 'two elite specs later, and I'm still always running entangle and sotp in pvp and wvw'

> Yeah man, Feelsbadman...

> After the balance patch (which included mostly bugfixes & mountskins btw) I still can't get soulbeast to work properly in pvp/wvw. It's really frustrating to think about what it could have been vs. what it is indeed. Just some numerical changes won't fix this spec so I'm not expecting Anet to fix it anytime soon @ this rate.

> Back to Holo!

 

Definitely is something wrong with your build or your play style if you can't play properly with Soulbeast in wvw. With marauder, Longbow+Sword/Warhorn and Survival/Nature and Soulbeast trait lines you are very powerful and you can face all classes. In wvw also in pvp Soulbeast is a strong class and more than playable, in bot situations 1 vs 1 or groups vs groups. I don't know why some (or many) ppl are saying that Soulbeast is weak, because is not! Well, yes there are many bugs or things which should be fixed or made to work in other way that they are doing now, but this is something else.

 

Oh and btw, entangle now on most of the time is useful only for cure 2 condition with survival trait, because almost all classes can escape immediate from those roots.

[Lazze.9870]

> @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

> > @Kraitan.8476 said:

> > 'two elite specs later, and I'm still always running entangle and sotp in pvp and wvw'

> > Yeah man, Feelsbadman...

> > After the balance patch (which included mostly bugfixes & mountskins btw) I still can't get soulbeast to work properly in pvp/wvw. It's really frustrating to think about what it could have been vs. what it is indeed. Just some numerical changes won't fix this spec so I'm not expecting Anet to fix it anytime soon @ this rate.

> > Back to Holo!

>

> Definitely is something wrong with your build or your play style if you can't play properly with Soulbeast in wvw. With marauder, Longbow+Sword/Warhorn and Survival/Nature and Soulbeast trait lines you are very powerful and you can face all classes. In wvw also in pvp Soulbeast is a strong class and more than playable, in bot situations 1 vs 1 or groups vs groups. I don't know why some (or many) ppl are saying that Soulbeast is weak, because is not! Well, yes there are many bugs or things which should be fixed or made to work in other way that they are doing now, but this is something else.

>

> Oh and btw, entangle now on most of the time is useful only for cure 2 condition with survival trait, because almost all classes can escape immediate from those roots.

 

"Something is wrong with your playstyle" if you can't get more use out of entangle than that.

 

Soulbeast works. It's not weak. But like I said above, it also annoys the crap out of me. Lost potential and Anet trying to do too much with one spec. It should have been more streamlined with petswap available in beastmode. The condition aspect of it could just aswell have been removed for in favor of power stuff. And all the other things I touched on a few posts ago.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @Lazze.9870 said:

> "Something is wrong with your playstyle" if you can't get more use out of entangle than that.

If you entangle for more than 1 sec other classes means those players are noobs.

> Soulbeast works. It's not weak. But like I said above, it also annoys the crap out of me. Lost potential and Anet trying to do too much with one spec. It should have been more streamlined with petswap available in beastmode. The condition aspect of it could just aswell have been removed for in favor of power stuff. And all the other things I touched on a few posts ago.

 

Soulbeast not only works, it is realy good. You said Anet lost potential of Soulbeast, well maybe , but in my opinion if they make petswap in beastmode or CD for go in and go out of beastmode to be zero (like many players asked) than Soulbeast will be too OP like Spellbreakers.

We can't have in a second extra damage (with Ferocious) and next second extra life+healing (with Supportive). I mean yes, will be more than wonderful, but in the same time too OP. If now wih those 10+2 = 12 sec of changes (in real fight) we are still good, do you realise how it will be if we can change from power to healing in just 1 second ?

I play Ranger since beta, I love this class and like you and other rangers I wish many things to be different, bugs fixed etc to make ranger more playable than it is now, but in the same time I don't want Anet to make such changes that make Soulbeast OP like Spellbraker.

 

[Lazze.9870]

> @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

> > @Lazze.9870 said:

> > "Something is wrong with your playstyle" if you can't get more use out of entangle than that.

> If you entangle for more than 1 sec other classes means those players are noobs.

> > Soulbeast works. It's not weak. But like I said above, it also annoys the crap out of me. Lost potential and Anet trying to do too much with one spec. It should have been more streamlined with petswap available in beastmode. The condition aspect of it could just aswell have been removed for in favor of power stuff. And all the other things I touched on a few posts ago.

>

> Soulbeast not only works, it is realy good. You said Anet lost potential of Soulbeast, well maybe , but in my opinion if they make petswap in beastmode or CD for go in and go out of beastmode to be zero (like many players asked) than Soulbeast will be too OP like Spellbreakers.

> We can't have in a second extra damage (with Ferocious) and next second extra life+healing (with Supportive). I mean yes, will be more than wonderful, but in the same time too OP. If now wih those 10+2 = 12 sec of changes (in real fight) we are still good, do you realise how it will be if we can change from power to healing in just 1 second ?

> I play Ranger since beta, I love this class and like you and other rangers I wish many things to be different, bugs fixed etc to make ranger more playable than it is now, but in the same time I don't want Anet to make such changes that make Soulbeast OP like Spellbraker.

>

 

No, it means you already baited out the skills or traits (if applicable) that make them walk out of entangle in the first place place. If all the use you get out of entangle is literally one second of nothing in every single situation, you're the one doing it wrong. You're one of those noobs.

 

Wow. No, it wouldn't be OP with pet swap availble in beastmode. It would work on the same universal cooldown as the regular petswap outside beastmode. Meaning a 20/15 second cooldown if you already made the swap. On top of that you have the cooldown on the beastmode skills. The heal is on a 40 second cooldown and not affected by cooldown traits. Meaning the uptime of that skill is the same regardless.

 

When I come to think of it, you're the same person arguing for celestial ranger with a lack of defensive utility being strong while you were supported by two other players. That's my cue to not bother with what you're saying..

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @Lazze.9870 said:

> No, it means you already baited out the skills or traits (if applicable) that make them walk out of entangle in the first place place. If all the use you get out of entangle is literally one second of nothing in every single situation, you're the one doing it wrong. You're one of those noob.

>

> Wow. No, it wouldn't be OP with pet swap availble in beastmode. It would work on the same universal cooldown as the regular petswap outside beastmode. Meaning a 20/15 second cooldown if you already made the swap. On top of that you have the cooldown on the beastmode skills. The heal is on a 40 second cooldown and not affected by cooldown traits. Meaning the uptime of that skill is the same regardless.

>

> When I come to think of it, you're the same person arguing for celestial ranger with a lack of defensive utility being strong while you were supported by two other players. That's my cue to not bother with what you're saying..

 

1. Seems you don't know nothing about other classes and their ability to escape from entangle (and don't talk me about theorycrafting, I see many players who talked like you, but in real fight they forgot all about their theory :), and died like a house fly ...) Still I didn't call you noobs.

2. How could you say pet swap in Beastmode will not be OP if now without that, Soulbeast is a very good class? I am not talking only about F3 who is a real heal, but for F2 too who gives you like 2.5 k instant heal + 6 sec of regeneration + 2 condi remove every 20 sec! Now with the actual mechanic you can change a pet+beastmode (in fight) at every 20 sec. And I talk only about healing pet , but are other pets who gives you condi damage, charge+daze, kick at every 8-12 sec ... and you will benefit of those not at every 20 sec like it is now, but more often, and for me this means will be OP. (once again, I don't mind to low CD of Beastmode from 10 sec to 5 ...)

3. I don't know what about you talking regarding celestial ranger ...

4. I don't want to argue with you anymore, I did nothing bad or wrong, just I said my opinion about actual status of Soulbeast ;).

 

PS: maybe you must train more with pet swap+beastmode ... because they didn't made Soulbeast so player like you stay 100% of time in Beastmode. Anet want from ranger to be more challenging, to be versatile, to play in both stages ...

[ProtoMarcus.7649]

# Griffon Stance reverted back to 25 endurance on use (down from unlisted 50)

Welp, it seems the overly popular _/s_ **Griffon Stance** was stealth-reverted to granting 25 endurance. Previous balance patch gave it 50 endurance on activation, which was also unlisted, now its back to 25 endurance. Not even a stun breaker. On 40s cooldown.

 

I think it's the one stance that has to be tweaked the most...

[anduriell.6280]

vulture, griffon and the elite (too long to be bother to write it here) demand a rework.

 

Those stances are too weak and an actual waste of spot in a spec is supposed to be melee oriented. For range we don't need them as you don't need any evades neither the extra heals from the venom.

One wolf pack (here i wrote it) is mostly useless without some additional effects. *It's just an extra 600 damage by hit every half second to one target*. It needs to affect all target hits by AoEs (like barrage) and apply might and fury by impact. Otherwise is simply a terrible design and needs to be changed to something more useful. If this elite would have been keft n the spelbreaker im pretty sure it would not have been left half done like it is now.

 

Moa needs the total duration back.

Also the traits are really bad, they add nothing to my game play. Except the stances one because it make the stances to actually have an useful duration after the last buff.

 

Soulbeast needs:

* More ways for unblockable attacks and easier access. With the amount of passives blocks an immunities is imposible to hit anything. Giving to the utiility and weapon skill the unblockable effect on the pet so when melded apply to the soulbeast its an idea.

* More access to stun breaks, like warrior has. When used a leap skill with an icd of 10 seconds its another idea.

* bugfix all the skills which dont work correctly like SoR.

 

 

And we need this to change:

* Trait effects ( beastly warden, Invogorating bond, live fast) to be cast **before ** the beast ability channel. Otherwise those traits and mostly useless, and those traits have an ICD to avoid the abuse already in place.

* The swap while in soulbeast is also needed. Otherwise traits like lesser clarion bond do not allow the soulbeast access to the unblockable effect, and zephirs speed which could help with burst is not there.

 

And for the core ranger:

We could use more traits on pet swap and on beast ability with meaningful effects. At least one by traitline.

[ProtoMarcus.7649]

* **Moa Stance** is in a good spot - traited at 15s is very strong, and the boons it shares are also very good

_____________

 

* **Vulture Stance** is okay-ish, would've loved **33% condition duration** as another effect for the skill - would bring more utility to condition builds and add some uniqueness

* **Dolyak Stance** could see some pulsing stab instead of one time application - _**or**_ grant 2 stacks of stability... **BUT grant stability everytime a hard CC is used on you for the duration of the stance** effectively making it a guaranteed stability skill

* **One Wolf Pack** could grant either **Vulnerability** or **Bleed** on proc, something like 3s on hit, would add more punch and would still make it a versatile/hybrid skill

_____________

# **Griffon Stance though...**

* Needs to grant 50 endurance per cast as the previous iteration

* **needs to become a stun breaker**

* **NEEDS a MUCH lower cooldown...** 45s for a crappy skill, I mean LITERALLY nobody uses that skill, the biggest waste of a utility skill

* The stance effect is also lacklustre... Rangers already have tons of might sources, **tons**

* Duration needs to be put back to 8s instead of 6s

* Again this stance really needs something better, unique, interesting, useful... 45s for 25 endurance and 100% endurance regen rate is really bad. That's barely 2 full dodges for the duration... **2 dodges** **_on 45s CD_**

____________

Griffon Stance Full rework - now bare with me it changes it quite a lot

* Cooldown reduced to **25s**

* Duration reduced to **3s**

* Stance Effect: **Evade all projectiles** and gain **20 endurance when you dodge**

* On Cast: **Stun Break, Gain 30 endurance**

 


 

Basically, it becomes a stun break on 25s CD with some major endurance regen effect and projectile evasion utility. _**Maybe a short stability on dodge to ice the cake or something.**_

 

Even then, it'll be a very niche skill but it'll have unique utility

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Yeah, really bummed that they didn't do anything to Griffon Stance. It just feels like a knock-off Lightning Reflexes without the actual evade or stunbreak and with a higher cooldown. I like your idea above, Marcus, and would love to see it play on its own theme: dodging/evading. The might needs to be stripped from it forever so it can actually be a self-synergetic utility skill and not some weird mish-mash of underwhelming defense and offense. Make it feel like you're actually one of the griffons in the game. The griffons in open world are a pain in the ass (especially the branded ones), and using Griffon Stance in its current implementation feels nothing like that.

 

The other stances I think are in a much better spot, but I agree that Vulture is the next on the list of needing to be tweaked a little. And I still love the suggestion of having unrippable boons with Moa Stance.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"ProtoMarcus.7649" said:

> Griffon Stance Full rework - now bare with me it changes it quite a lot

> * Cooldown reduced to **25s**

> * Duration reduced to **3s**

> * Stance Effect: **Evade all projectiles** and gain **20 endurance when you dodge**

> * On Cast: **Stun Break, Gain 30 endurance**

>

> 

>

> Basically, it becomes a stun break on 25s CD with some major endurance regen effect and projectile evasion utility. _**Maybe a short stability on dodge to ice the cake or something.**_

>

> Even then, it'll be a very niche skill but it'll have unique utility

>

actually you can increase the duration to 5 seconds. every other single class has immunities and blocks much longer which are immune also to melee.

For the soulbeast to be able to ditch some projectile damage would be good to close gap.

 

[Wondrouswall.7169]

Evading only projectiles seems too niche. Won't do anything against AoEs and I don't even know if beams count towards projectiles. Might as well make it more flexible by altering it to evade attacks past a certain range and reduce damage within a certain range threshold.

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

Vulture stance and One Wolf Pack are both great and synergize very well in the PvE viper SB build. The elite actually helps with the 1/4 sec interval on vulture and can proc on crit traits like sharpened edges. No need to add more conditions to it.

 

For PvP/WvW, Vulture stance is still ok. *Condi ranger/shortbow needs buffs* somehow but vulture stance isn't where it should happen. Base ranger needs those changes and if those changes happen, vulture stance will be good. Owp is great for bursting people down.

 

@"Wondrouswall.7169"

Beams are not projectiles.

 

I'll agree with griffon stance not being great. I'd prefer it giving an actual 1 second evade frame. The stance bonus would be doing damage in a pbaoe when you evade an attack (1 sec ICD). 4 second base on the stance bonus. So 2 seconds shared/6 seconds LoP. Give it a 15-20 second CD. Think of it as pre-nerf distortion share light: it's only evade not invuln and it's a 15-20 second CD. So doesn't break PvE. I could see WvW commanders actually thinking about using this with frontline. Call for the evade and dodge through aoe while doing counter attack damage. It would be unique support compared to other frontline builds. PvP wouldn't decap points. Could be used while ressing people to give the body and yourself evade and apply pressure to enemies.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

Figured as much. Granted, they would have to code LotP to share non-stance/boons with allies for that idea to work. Last I checked, it only shares stances and boons, unless that was patched sometime ago.

 

Better off making Griffon Stance: 4s duration, stance effect grants 25 endurance per second, lower the cooldown the 30s, and maybe keep the might on-evade. Get 2 dodges back after 4s as a base, allies get 1 dodge on share, and the player gets 3 with the trait over 6s. Decent utility at that point, especially since I doubt after Anet got rid of distortion(-esque) sharing that they would give a lighter version back, let alone to Ranger.