Obtena.7952 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > Why are you such a carebear? Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. > > You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. So if Anet made this game 'gourmet', all the sudden the people that stayed would step up to pay more for it? That's not a very realistic understanding. I mean ... I don't need much data to suggest that if Anet abandoned its core market by appealing to more serious players, the big part of the core market would leave. It's not big step in logic to think that would be a rather stupid thing for ANY business to do without some comprehensive thinking and rational to do so. Honestly ... you tell me ... if Anet became a gourmet MMO to compete with all the other gourmet MMO's that already exist, do you think it could compete? Do you think it would all the sudden steal away enough people from the other established gourmet MMO's to replace the people it lost from the switch? I think what's happening here is that there is a continuous failure by people to recognize that this game only exists BECAUSE it serves an under serviced portion of the MMO gaming market. Until GW2, there wasn't much if any choices available for people to play a game with the feature set GW2 has. That's why it's still here today. Besides, your post suggest that the majority of the people aren't the average people Anput thinks the game shouldn't cater to? I just don't see it ... you have a game that's worked like it does now for 7 years. do you really mean to tell me that this attracts the kind of people that want high levels of balance and competitive play? Something doesn't jive there. It's not unreasonable to think that the majority of some type of player pays the majority of the game ... and those players are the ones that Anet targets with their game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > > > > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. > > > > You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. > > So if Anet made this game 'gourmet', all the sudden the people that stayed would step up to pay more for it? That's not a very realistic understanding. I mean ... I don't need much data to suggest that if Anet abandoned its core market by appealing to more serious players, the big part of the core market would leave. It's not big step in logic to think that would be a rather stupid thing for ANY business to do without some comprehensive thinking and rational to do so. > > Honestly ... you tell me ... if Anet became a gourmet MMO to compete with all the other gourmet MMO's that already exist, do you think it could compete? Do you think it would all the sudden steal away enough people from the other established gourmet MMO's to replace the people it lost from the switch? > > I think what's happening here is that there is a continuous failure by people to recognize that this game only exists BECAUSE it serves an under serviced portion of the MMO gaming market. Until GW2, there wasn't much if any choices available for people to play a game with the feature set GW2 has. That's why it's still here today. > > Besides, your post suggest that the majority of the people aren't the average people Anput thinks the game shouldn't cater to? I just don't see it ... you have a game that's worked like it does now for 7 years. do you really mean to tell me that this attracts the kind of people that want high levels of balance and competitive play? Something doesn't jive there. It's not unreasonable to think that the majority of some type of player pays the majority of the game ... and those players are the ones that Anet targets with their game design. The myth here is the false dichotomy that they must choose in the first place. Theres no reason why the casuals cant have their brand new skins a couple times a month and the the competitive parts of the game cant be more balanced. When you have two different groups of players, in two completely different and separate game spaces, two things can be true. This is, in fact, how these other "gourmet" games do it. When they throw a few two button meme builds into the system that can be played by folks with potatoes for hands, they dont end up in diamond tier with people who took months to learn how all the rotations work. Those same players see the predictable gimmick coming a mile away with its fancy new skins, bait it into performing its meme trick, then down it with any modicum of counter play. But hey, their dragon still looks like a hummingbird, so they are still happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > > > > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. > > > > You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. > > So if Anet made this game 'gourmet', all the sudden the people that stayed would step up to pay more for it? That's not a very realistic understanding. I mean ... I don't need much data to suggest that if Anet abandoned its core market by appealing to more serious players, the big part of the core market would leave. It's not big step in logic to think that would be a rather stupid thing for ANY business to do without some comprehensive thinking and rational to do so. > > Honestly ... you tell me ... if Anet became a gourmet MMO to compete with all the other gourmet MMO's that already exist, do you think it could compete? Do you think it would all the sudden steal away enough people from the other established gourmet MMO's to replace the people it lost from the switch? > > I think what's happening here is that there is a continuous failure by people to recognize that this game only exists BECAUSE it serves an under serviced portion of the MMO gaming market. Until GW2, there wasn't much if any choices available for people to play a game with the feature set GW2 has. That's why it's still here today. > > Besides, your post suggest that the majority of the people aren't the average people Anput thinks the game shouldn't cater to? I just don't see it ... you have a game that's worked like it does now for 7 years. do you really mean to tell me that this attracts the kind of people that want high levels of balance and competitive play? Something doesn't jive there. It's not unreasonable to think that the majority of some type of player pays the majority of the game ... and those players are the ones that Anet targets with their game design. I think they kept the customers they targeted. I think they lost many when it became obvious WvW was a spreadsheet to win. You seen those 11 million strong banners they've plastered over the internet? Claiming WoW numbers, but NCsoft doesn't see nearly the revenue Activision/Blizzard does because most of their "customers" don't pay a cent. Know which game is #1 for NCsoft? (Hint: it's not casual) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > > > > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > > > > > > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. > > > > > > You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. > > > > So if Anet made this game 'gourmet', all the sudden the people that stayed would step up to pay more for it? That's not a very realistic understanding. I mean ... I don't need much data to suggest that if Anet abandoned its core market by appealing to more serious players, the big part of the core market would leave. It's not big step in logic to think that would be a rather stupid thing for ANY business to do without some comprehensive thinking and rational to do so. > > > > Honestly ... you tell me ... if Anet became a gourmet MMO to compete with all the other gourmet MMO's that already exist, do you think it could compete? Do you think it would all the sudden steal away enough people from the other established gourmet MMO's to replace the people it lost from the switch? > > > > I think what's happening here is that there is a continuous failure by people to recognize that this game only exists BECAUSE it serves an under serviced portion of the MMO gaming market. Until GW2, there wasn't much if any choices available for people to play a game with the feature set GW2 has. That's why it's still here today. > > > > Besides, your post suggest that the majority of the people aren't the average people Anput thinks the game shouldn't cater to? I just don't see it ... you have a game that's worked like it does now for 7 years. do you really mean to tell me that this attracts the kind of people that want high levels of balance and competitive play? Something doesn't jive there. It's not unreasonable to think that the majority of some type of player pays the majority of the game ... and those players are the ones that Anet targets with their game design. > > I think they kept the customers they targeted. > I think they lost many when it became obvious WvW was a spreadsheet to win. > > You seen those 11 million strong banners they've plastered over the internet? Claiming WoW numbers, but NCsoft doesn't see nearly the revenue Activision/Blizzard does because most of their "customers" don't pay a cent. Know which game is #1 for NCsoft? (Hint: it's not casual) > > That might be all true. I won't debate it. I don't see how it relates to Anet following the direction Anput is proposing. The game is built around serving an specific market. Anet CAN'T do better by deciding to abandon that market part way through and compete in a different market that is already full of heavy weight MMO developers with established games. They will **not** win that hand. > @"SoV.5139" said: > The myth here is the false dichotomy that they must choose in the first place. Theres no reason why the casuals cant have their brand new skins a couple times a month and the the competitive parts of the game cant be more balanced. Well, it's not a false dichotomy because Anet is limited by the resources they can apply to serve both. Sure, the mechanics to split classes between PVE and WvW/PVP are in place. I can't tell you why Anet doesn't use them to split and do what you indicate, except to speculate that it's more work than their current resources can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > > > > > > > > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. > > > > > > > > You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. > > > > > > So if Anet made this game 'gourmet', all the sudden the people that stayed would step up to pay more for it? That's not a very realistic understanding. I mean ... I don't need much data to suggest that if Anet abandoned its core market by appealing to more serious players, the big part of the core market would leave. It's not big step in logic to think that would be a rather stupid thing for ANY business to do without some comprehensive thinking and rational to do so. > > > > > > Honestly ... you tell me ... if Anet became a gourmet MMO to compete with all the other gourmet MMO's that already exist, do you think it could compete? Do you think it would all the sudden steal away enough people from the other established gourmet MMO's to replace the people it lost from the switch? > > > > > > I think what's happening here is that there is a continuous failure by people to recognize that this game only exists BECAUSE it serves an under serviced portion of the MMO gaming market. Until GW2, there wasn't much if any choices available for people to play a game with the feature set GW2 has. That's why it's still here today. > > > > > > Besides, your post suggest that the majority of the people aren't the average people Anput thinks the game shouldn't cater to? I just don't see it ... you have a game that's worked like it does now for 7 years. do you really mean to tell me that this attracts the kind of people that want high levels of balance and competitive play? Something doesn't jive there. It's not unreasonable to think that the majority of some type of player pays the majority of the game ... and those players are the ones that Anet targets with their game design. > > > > I think they kept the customers they targeted. > > I think they lost many when it became obvious WvW was a spreadsheet to win. > > > > You seen those 11 million strong banners they've plastered over the internet? Claiming WoW numbers, but NCsoft doesn't see nearly the revenue Activision/Blizzard does because most of their "customers" don't pay a cent. Know which game is #1 for NCsoft? (Hint: it's not casual) > > > > > That might be all true. I won't debate it. I don't see how it relates to Anet following the direction Anput is proposing. The game is built around serving an specific market. Anet CAN'T do better by deciding to abandon that market part way through and compete in a different market that is already full of heavy weight MMO developers with established games. They will **not** win that hand. > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > The myth here is the false dichotomy that they must choose in the first place. Theres no reason why the casuals cant have their brand new skins a couple times a month and the the competitive parts of the game cant be more balanced. > > Well, it's not a false dichotomy because Anet is limited by the resources they can apply to serve both. Sure, the mechanics to split classes between PVE and WvW/PVP are in place. I can't tell you why Anet doesn't use them to split and do what you indicate, except to speculate that it's more work than their current resources can handle. The assumption of limited resources is in and of itself a false dichotomy. In the dichotomy of video game development, the art team and system team are two completely different teams. System devs dont make FashionWars Skins, and the art team doesnt balance the competitive part of the game. System devs do not automagically turn into content devs in order to push out those shiny new skins more quickly. Thus the assumption that they must choose between one or the other, is refuted, as is the assumption that all of the resources are allocated to one specific group of people while everyone else is ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 > @"SoV.5139" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. > > > > > > > > > > You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. > > > > > > > > So if Anet made this game 'gourmet', all the sudden the people that stayed would step up to pay more for it? That's not a very realistic understanding. I mean ... I don't need much data to suggest that if Anet abandoned its core market by appealing to more serious players, the big part of the core market would leave. It's not big step in logic to think that would be a rather stupid thing for ANY business to do without some comprehensive thinking and rational to do so. > > > > > > > > Honestly ... you tell me ... if Anet became a gourmet MMO to compete with all the other gourmet MMO's that already exist, do you think it could compete? Do you think it would all the sudden steal away enough people from the other established gourmet MMO's to replace the people it lost from the switch? > > > > > > > > I think what's happening here is that there is a continuous failure by people to recognize that this game only exists BECAUSE it serves an under serviced portion of the MMO gaming market. Until GW2, there wasn't much if any choices available for people to play a game with the feature set GW2 has. That's why it's still here today. > > > > > > > > Besides, your post suggest that the majority of the people aren't the average people Anput thinks the game shouldn't cater to? I just don't see it ... you have a game that's worked like it does now for 7 years. do you really mean to tell me that this attracts the kind of people that want high levels of balance and competitive play? Something doesn't jive there. It's not unreasonable to think that the majority of some type of player pays the majority of the game ... and those players are the ones that Anet targets with their game design. > > > > > > I think they kept the customers they targeted. > > > I think they lost many when it became obvious WvW was a spreadsheet to win. > > > > > > You seen those 11 million strong banners they've plastered over the internet? Claiming WoW numbers, but NCsoft doesn't see nearly the revenue Activision/Blizzard does because most of their "customers" don't pay a cent. Know which game is #1 for NCsoft? (Hint: it's not casual) > > > > > > > > That might be all true. I won't debate it. I don't see how it relates to Anet following the direction Anput is proposing. The game is built around serving an specific market. Anet CAN'T do better by deciding to abandon that market part way through and compete in a different market that is already full of heavy weight MMO developers with established games. They will **not** win that hand. > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > The myth here is the false dichotomy that they must choose in the first place. Theres no reason why the casuals cant have their brand new skins a couple times a month and the the competitive parts of the game cant be more balanced. > > > > Well, it's not a false dichotomy because Anet is limited by the resources they can apply to serve both. Sure, the mechanics to split classes between PVE and WvW/PVP are in place. I can't tell you why Anet doesn't use them to split and do what you indicate, except to speculate that it's more work than their current resources can handle. > > The assumption of limited resources is in and of itself a false dichotomy. > > In the dichotomy of video game development, the art team and system team are two completely different teams. System devs dont make FashionWars Skins, and the art team doesnt balance the competitive part of the game. System devs do not automagically turn into content devs in order to push out those shiny new skins more quickly. > > Thus the assumption that they must choose between one or the other, is refuted, as is the assumption that all of the resources are allocated to one specific group of people while everyone else is ignored. Even within those teams, there are limited resources. There isn't anything false about the idea that a business doesn't have a pool of infinite resources to do everything they want. Ultimately, regardless of how many teams and what they do being different, the resources boil down to time and money; anyone that understands a squirt about anything can understand how those things limit your ability to do things, including Anet. False dichotomy ... sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XECOR.2814 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > Ranger is apparently overpowered when 2v1'ing people.... > > what class isn't? > > And yes, the balance is kitten If you dont have a necro for corrupts then a holo, boonbeast or a warrior can easily cheese 1v2 or 1v3's. But if you are any of the above class and there is a sickem ranger on the other side amongst them you can be damn sure that you will hit 100-0 as soon as you are not evading or invuln. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Anyone else hungry after reading some of these replies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMe.1960 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 > @"Doug.4930" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. Just lol. Most Rangers are just bad aka free kills. If LB and SicEm lets them kill you easy then you probably just run away hoping for some miracle to save you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMe.1960 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 > @"Straegen.2938" said: > The current SB is essentially payback for Rangers being craptastic for years. That said, it is time to tone down the pew pew. I disagree. Ranger was always strong in roaming just the Pet mechanics are a pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMe.1960 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > Half of my guild literally made full zerk soulbeasts in last few weeks because it's so braindead and effective. They arent even roamers, they generally do only raids/blob stuff and since matchups are boring they just kitten on rangers. Must be the guys i kill with 0 effort :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I want them to stop serving the lowest common denominator because that decreases quality, why does this game have to be mcdonalds lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you such a carebear? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because you aren't going pay the bills. My point is simply ... they aren't going to stop serving the LCD ... the LCD pays the bills. This game goes to McD's because that's what how it was designed. If it went gourmet all the sudden, then you better have some deep pockets. If you want to eat at a gourmet place, it's going to be up to the smaller population to support it. Frankly, I don't think that's you or most of the other people that would stay if they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > You have no data supporting your assertion. People can be driven away by a game being too simplistic as well. What does a person who logs in once per pve release care about a rare skin? It's all new to them. > > > > > > > > > > So if Anet made this game 'gourmet', all the sudden the people that stayed would step up to pay more for it? That's not a very realistic understanding. I mean ... I don't need much data to suggest that if Anet abandoned its core market by appealing to more serious players, the big part of the core market would leave. It's not big step in logic to think that would be a rather stupid thing for ANY business to do without some comprehensive thinking and rational to do so. > > > > > > > > > > Honestly ... you tell me ... if Anet became a gourmet MMO to compete with all the other gourmet MMO's that already exist, do you think it could compete? Do you think it would all the sudden steal away enough people from the other established gourmet MMO's to replace the people it lost from the switch? > > > > > > > > > > I think what's happening here is that there is a continuous failure by people to recognize that this game only exists BECAUSE it serves an under serviced portion of the MMO gaming market. Until GW2, there wasn't much if any choices available for people to play a game with the feature set GW2 has. That's why it's still here today. > > > > > > > > > > Besides, your post suggest that the majority of the people aren't the average people Anput thinks the game shouldn't cater to? I just don't see it ... you have a game that's worked like it does now for 7 years. do you really mean to tell me that this attracts the kind of people that want high levels of balance and competitive play? Something doesn't jive there. It's not unreasonable to think that the majority of some type of player pays the majority of the game ... and those players are the ones that Anet targets with their game design. > > > > > > > > I think they kept the customers they targeted. > > > > I think they lost many when it became obvious WvW was a spreadsheet to win. > > > > > > > > You seen those 11 million strong banners they've plastered over the internet? Claiming WoW numbers, but NCsoft doesn't see nearly the revenue Activision/Blizzard does because most of their "customers" don't pay a cent. Know which game is #1 for NCsoft? (Hint: it's not casual) > > > > > > > > > > > That might be all true. I won't debate it. I don't see how it relates to Anet following the direction Anput is proposing. The game is built around serving an specific market. Anet CAN'T do better by deciding to abandon that market part way through and compete in a different market that is already full of heavy weight MMO developers with established games. They will **not** win that hand. > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > The myth here is the false dichotomy that they must choose in the first place. Theres no reason why the casuals cant have their brand new skins a couple times a month and the the competitive parts of the game cant be more balanced. > > > > > > Well, it's not a false dichotomy because Anet is limited by the resources they can apply to serve both. Sure, the mechanics to split classes between PVE and WvW/PVP are in place. I can't tell you why Anet doesn't use them to split and do what you indicate, except to speculate that it's more work than their current resources can handle. > > > > The assumption of limited resources is in and of itself a false dichotomy. > > > > In the dichotomy of video game development, the art team and system team are two completely different teams. System devs dont make FashionWars Skins, and the art team doesnt balance the competitive part of the game. System devs do not automagically turn into content devs in order to push out those shiny new skins more quickly. > > > > Thus the assumption that they must choose between one or the other, is refuted, as is the assumption that all of the resources are allocated to one specific group of people while everyone else is ignored. > > Even within those teams, there are limited resources. There isn't anything false about the idea that a business doesn't have a pool of infinite resources to do everything they want. Ultimately, regardless of how many teams and what they do being different, the resources boil down to time and money; anyone that understands a squirt about anything can understand how those things limit your ability to do things, including Anet. False dichotomy ... sure. "Limited resources" as an excuse to dismiss what cannot be refuted or addressed is an often observed cliche on video game forums (and software forums in general), and should be (if it already isnt) a meme. Its the poster essentially saying "those limited resources should be spent on what I want, not what you want." In the even more niche balance discussions its Rock claiming Paper is OP but Scissors is fine. This is as transparent as the glass builds that get rekt by one trick pony meme builds like siccem SB - as those builds are just as often the same type of build. No defenses built in, just get the drop on the other guy first. Only once in a while the other meme build gets the drop first, and what cant be defeated in game can be defeated on the forums. "Limited resources" doesnt address how they can remove the evasion off Druid Staff3, gut scrapper and make its tanky-ness based on power DPS, but not tone down other meme builds. "resource issues" are easily addressed with better decision making. Spend resources taking the top down a bit, rather than nerfing the middle toward the bottom, for starters. But this will encounter resistance, because specific forumites want THIS meme build nerfed, not THEIR meme build nerfed. TL;DR: Some silver level PVPers are Diamond level forum warriors. They have macros for cloaking their own specific agenda as a generic balance concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnuzone.8395 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 > @"Legendary Defender.5631" said: > Keep complaining its only going to get worse. > > Nice trolling. Ppl are taking the bait as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 > @"SoV.5139" said: > "Limited resources" as an excuse to dismiss what cannot be refuted or addressed .... If that excuse is reality, I don't mind standing by it. Maybe you think Anet has a bunch of devs sitting around doing nothing or piles of money to hire a bunch of people to do things you feel are really important. I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > "Limited resources" as an excuse to dismiss what cannot be refuted or addressed .... > > If that excuse is reality, I don't mind standing by it. Maybe you think Anet has a bunch of devs sitting around doing nothing or piles of money to hire a bunch of people to do things you feel are really important. I doubt it. > > That excuse is NOT reality. Its not one queue of resources where the myth is allocating to one issue means not allocating to another issue. Put another way, system devs dont turn into content devs because players want more content and less system changes. The art team isnt the game balance team. More balance implementation to please competitive players does not mean the Fashion Wars folks wont see any new skins this month. "Limited resources" as a blanket excuse, is a myth born of lacking understanding of how software companies work. In these discussions, its often used to dismiss any notion that broken build B and broken build C also need nerfs now that broken build A is nerfed, and highly likely posted by players of builds B and C, who only lobbied hand over fist to get build A nerfed because build A countered their own meme builds. Rock thinks paper is OP but scissors is fine. Rock also claims "limited resources" will keep the company from nerfing rock or buffing scissors. This agenda is about as transparent as the glass in some of these meme builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 dp............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 > @"SoV.5139" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > "Limited resources" as an excuse to dismiss what cannot be refuted or addressed .... > > > > If that excuse is reality, I don't mind standing by it. Maybe you think Anet has a bunch of devs sitting around doing nothing or piles of money to hire a bunch of people to do things you feel are really important. I doubt it. > > > > > > That excuse is NOT reality. Its not one queue of resources where the myth is allocating to one issue means not allocating to another issue. You're right ... it's not an excuse if it's reality. It's a reason. The bottomline is that the limitation is company wide and it's based on money. They have X bux to get people to do things, regardless of what they do. I'm not even sure what your point is since you are acknowledging what I'm saying when you recognize that certain people are in certain roles doing a certain job ... I'm saying the same thing. Not sure how you don't see that as 'limited resources'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > "Limited resources" as an excuse to dismiss what cannot be refuted or addressed .... > > > > > > If that excuse is reality, I don't mind standing by it. Maybe you think Anet has a bunch of devs sitting around doing nothing or piles of money to hire a bunch of people to do things you feel are really important. I doubt it. > > > > > > > > > > That excuse is NOT reality. Its not one queue of resources where the myth is allocating to one issue means not allocating to another issue. > > You're right ... it's not an excuse if it's reality. It's a reason. The bottomline is that the limitation is company wide and it's based on money. They have X bux to get people to do things, regardless of what they do. I'm not even sure what your point is since you are acknowledging what I'm saying when you recognize that certain people are in certain roles doing a certain job ... I'm saying the same thing. Not sure how you don't see that as 'limited resources'. You dont know that's the bottom line, or to what degree thats true - unless you have some inside information you'd like to present. The balance team could be at full staff, while the art team and system devs are more limited resource wise. We understand why armchair resource management experts use this excuse however. Its pretty easy to expose their agenda. You see, the resources are just as limited when its something they want and when its something they do not want, but the "limited resources" excuse seems to get trotted out only when its something they do not want. Example: The resources werent so limited when soulbeast needed a nerf, but when these other meme builds also need to be brought in line, all of a sudden theres a resource issue preventing that from happening. Plenty of resources available to gut scrapper and remove druid staff3 evade however...but all of a sudden they dry up completely when other gimmick builds reach their turn on the chopping block. AKA - nerf the meme build that counters my meme build, but dont nerf my meme build. Rock: Paper is OP but Scissors is fine. Scissors: Actually rock is OP too Rock: Not enough available resources to nerf that, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 > @"SoV.5139" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > "Limited resources" as an excuse to dismiss what cannot be refuted or addressed .... > > > > > > > > If that excuse is reality, I don't mind standing by it. Maybe you think Anet has a bunch of devs sitting around doing nothing or piles of money to hire a bunch of people to do things you feel are really important. I doubt it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That excuse is NOT reality. Its not one queue of resources where the myth is allocating to one issue means not allocating to another issue. > > > > You're right ... it's not an excuse if it's reality. It's a reason. The bottomline is that the limitation is company wide and it's based on money. They have X bux to get people to do things, regardless of what they do. I'm not even sure what your point is since you are acknowledging what I'm saying when you recognize that certain people are in certain roles doing a certain job ... I'm saying the same thing. Not sure how you don't see that as 'limited resources'. > > You dont know that's the bottom line, or to what degree thats true - unless you have some inside information you'd like to present. The balance team could be at full staff, while the art team and system devs are more limited resource wise. You're not saying anything that contradicts the idea that Anet has X people on their staff doing things. That's what limited resources means. Not sure what you're trying to make argument about. The fact is that if you have X people, those X people can do so much and you have to prioritize them. If they aren't prioritized to nerf something, they don't do it. This isn't rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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