Feanor.2358 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > Elitism in PvE is funny. > > It's PvE and a research team in China have successfully taught chimps to raid in MMO's. Meanwhile elitism in WvW is sad. I'm currently witnessing its results first-hand on the ex-#1 EU server. I'd rather go with funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @CptAurellian.9537 said: > The level of entitlement some PvPers display is even more funny. actually the PvE players are the ones with the sense of entitlement. Go look at the GW2 reddit for proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > Elitism in PvE is funny. > > > > It's PvE and a research team in China have successfully taught chimps to raid in MMO's. > > Meanwhile elitism in WvW is sad. I'm currently witnessing its results first-hand on the ex-#1 EU server. I'd rather go with funny. what's WvW have to do with chimps being able to PvE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iAimToPlease.7304 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Conncept.7638 said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > @Conncept.7638 said: > > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > > @Conncept.7638 said: > > > > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > > > > @Conncept.7638 said: > > > > > > > > @Panda.1967 said: > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, they are allowed, despite the toxicity their presence creates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's more a daisy chain of mechanics that required and encouraged toxicity, starting with the absolute horrible design and implementation of raid content. > > > > > > > > > > > > The daisy chain is starting with people expecting to be carried all the time. > > > > > > > > > > I present this player and his conduct as Exhibit A in the case proving my point. > > > > > > > > > > And if I'm incorrect, please show me your proof that all players who do not use a DPS meter expect to be "carried" through content without playing the game correctly. Though good luck proving hyperboly in the first place, let alone factually incorrect hyperbole. > > > > > > > > > > Because I can, in fact, show you irrefutable proof that raids were designed to have a single method of playing through them, and that is why most players _will_ not, not cannot, comply with their content as it is designed, because this game was advertised, for five years before raids were ever mentioned, as a game in which you could play your way but still be challenged. And raids, are nothing short of compromise, and even purposeful betrayal, on that promised design tenant. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Strawman: I didn't say *every* player who doesn't run a meter expects to get carried. I said the elitism exists because of the players who do. I can also add that the meters are a tool that directly hurt these players, and pretty much them alone. For all the rest they are either beneficial or irrelevant. > > > Yes because, "people" doesn't apply to everyone, can't forget our plant, animal, extraterrestrial, and extradimensional playerbase. > > > > Still strawman, "every" isn't the same "some". > > > > > @Conncept.7638 said: > > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > 2. Strawman again: nobody said there's a single "method" of playing raids. Apparently you do not understand the purpose of meta. It's to minimize risk. That's all. You wanna play your custom build to have fun? Sure, no problem. Start a group and advertise is properly. Do not expect 9 other people (or 4 others in 5-man content, it's the same) to accept your idea of fun and get along with it. Also, do not expect to get carried either. See above under "elitism". > > > That is LITERALLY what meta means in this context! Meta means optimal, there is only one way to comply with this content as per your own words, therefore, meta=single method, by logic so basic our _plant_ and _animal_ playerbase could make the same conclusion. > > > > "Optimal" doesn't mean "necessary" either. Again, it's about minimizing risk, not meeting a requirement. > > > > > @Conncept.7638 said: > > > > @Feanor.2358 said:> > 3. It's no longer 2012. Times change, and so do opinions. ANet did a wonderful job in implementing exciting and fun endgame content. Either play it or don't but please spare me the "good ol' times" talk. > > > It has nothing to do with "good ol' times', that is something I didn't say, so while we're going over your nonsensical use of fallacies, have you ever heard of hyperbole? > > > > > > What it has to do with is good design, vs bad. Good design, allows players to figure out a way of complying with the content within the context of the content. Better design, allows for multiple means while still retaining challenge. > > > > > > Bad design, requires pooling info together until you have a serialized method to be mindlessly repeated over and over again. > > > > See above. I suggest you actually play some raids before trying to judge their design. > > Laudy laudy you could not be reaching farther to 180 how badly you destroyed your own argument. > > "Every" was not the issue with your statement, "person" was, as in you stated that "people" who don't use meters are expecting to get carried, which would mean everyone because that's how English works. And you're purposely ignoring that, because you know you made that blanket statement, and don't care about being correct, but appearing "superior", so apparently elitism doesn't only apply to games. > > Optimal literally does mean necessary in a case where there is only one method, or please point out to me, how there can be only one single method to complete something, and that isn't the optimal method, given that any other method will fail. > > And no, I don't need to eat crap to know it tastes bad. Reading comprehension 101, not even coming from a native speaker here so let me tell you how English works; the "some" he talked about is that with "people" he's referring to a specific group of people, which are the ones who are just looking to get carried, like several others already tried to tell you, he never claimed that no DPS meter = wants to get carried. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Or are you just attempting to argue in bad faith? Nice demonstration of your knowledge of "how the English language works" broski, optimal and necessary are not the same thing and certainly not "literally" for example; I don't need a PC with optimal hardware to play the latest games at 60 fps, therefore it isn't necessary. Optimal means that it's the best option, but just because it's the best it isn't a necessity, this has been demonstrated in many games over and over again, in LoL a team composition that's considered optimal can lose to an off-meta team, most people just choose to play what's meta because it's the safest choice. Then play and let play? If you wanna stick to casual content then be my guest, just don't whine to people who wanna play more challenging content, just for the record, raids aren't designed with a specific meta in mind, developers don't shape the meta or decide what's meta, the players do and it's like that in every game. I think DPS meters are useful because I've been trying to get into raiding, DPS meters help me get better more easily because I can tell when I'm doing a good job and when I'm slacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > Elitism in PvE is funny. > > > > > > It's PvE and a research team in China have successfully taught chimps to raid in MMO's. > > > > Meanwhile elitism in WvW is sad. I'm currently witnessing its results first-hand on the ex-#1 EU server. I'd rather go with funny. > > what's WvW have to do with chimps being able to PvE? That's simply where I've seen this haughty attitude toward PvE and I've seen personally the results of it. It helps nobody, not even the haughty ones. Whereas PvE elitism at least has some point to it, as it makes the elitist runs actually better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > Elitism in PvE is funny. > > > > > > > > It's PvE and a research team in China have successfully taught chimps to raid in MMO's. > > > > > > Meanwhile elitism in WvW is sad. I'm currently witnessing its results first-hand on the ex-#1 EU server. I'd rather go with funny. > > > > what's WvW have to do with chimps being able to PvE? > > That's simply where I've seen this haughty attitude toward PvE and I've seen personally the results of it. It helps nobody, not even the haughty ones. Whereas PvE elitism at least has some point to it, as it makes the elitist runs actually better. So you're saying elitism in a game mode where chimps can succeed is ok, but elitism in a PvP game mode is Not? ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > Elitism in PvE is funny. > > > > > > > > It's PvE and a research team in China have successfully taught chimps to raid in MMO's. > > > > > > Meanwhile elitism in WvW is sad. I'm currently witnessing its results first-hand on the ex-#1 EU server. I'd rather go with funny. > > > > what's WvW have to do with chimps being able to PvE? > > That's simply where I've seen this haughty attitude toward PvE and I've seen personally the results of it. It helps nobody, not even the haughty ones. Whereas PvE elitism at least has some point to it, as it makes the elitist runs actually better. elitism - having a superior attitude to others. Its not a good thing regardless of game style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > Elitism in PvE is funny. > > > > > > > > > > It's PvE and a research team in China have successfully taught chimps to raid in MMO's. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile elitism in WvW is sad. I'm currently witnessing its results first-hand on the ex-#1 EU server. I'd rather go with funny. > > > > > > what's WvW have to do with chimps being able to PvE? > > > > That's simply where I've seen this haughty attitude toward PvE and I've seen personally the results of it. It helps nobody, not even the haughty ones. Whereas PvE elitism at least has some point to it, as it makes the elitist runs actually better. > > elitism - having a superior attitude to others. Its not a good thing regardless of game style. That... is actually debatable. Player skill levels *are* very different, that's a fact. Why is acknowledging that fact not a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > > > @Jinks.2057 said: > > > > > Elitism in PvE is funny. > > > > > > > > > > It's PvE and a research team in China have successfully taught chimps to raid in MMO's. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile elitism in WvW is sad. I'm currently witnessing its results first-hand on the ex-#1 EU server. I'd rather go with funny. > > > > > > what's WvW have to do with chimps being able to PvE? > > > > That's simply where I've seen this haughty attitude toward PvE and I've seen personally the results of it. It helps nobody, not even the haughty ones. Whereas PvE elitism at least has some point to it, as it makes the elitist runs actually better. > > So you're saying elitism in a game mode where chimps can succeed is ok, but elitism in a PvP game mode is Not? > > ok Belittling and insulting skills you don't understand isn't the same as lacking skills. But what do I know, I'm a PvE scrub unworthy of your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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