I've noticed the Devs start to reach out, but this isn't how it should be.

[Acheron.4731]

> @"Zynk.9015" said:

> > @"TheBravery.9615" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > @"GreyFox.8046" said:

> > > > **Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"**

> > >

> > > In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

> > >

> >

> > 

> >

>

> Out of context screenshot from years ago that clearly doesn't apply to the forum today? Yeah, that looks about right.

 

There was more context to it when this was posted on Reddit. It was a reminder that what is happening now, happened before and shows certain negative attributes that ANET sticks by (not communicating well and not listening to feedback) have persisted for a long time and not improved.

[GreyFox.8046]

I've read this on the sub-reddit and it nails the mark. Puts things into perspective for ANET (If they ever do read it)

(For those that don't browse the sub, here's the link to the thread post) :

 

Like many have said before. This was a ticking time bomb, and it's just finally went **BOOM** . Part of me Is happy it did, so we can warrant some response from ANET and hopefully it leads to improvements with communication and management.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"RyuDragnier.9476" said:

> > @"GreyFox.8046" said:

> > **Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"**

> Because there's a lot of negativity going on, both here and on Reddit.

 

I think the problem is that many people don't know how to criticize something without making it sound like the end of the world, doom and gloom, either black or white, etc.

 

For instance, while it's the live presentation that was a disappointment of sorts, it was _not_ the content which was presented that was poor (on the contrary, it looked awesome). Yet, many people started attacking the content and the devs instead of focusing their dismay at what caused it. The content presented was amazing looking, only the lack of a proper, more insightful presentation about what was shown was the actual shortcoming.

 

Then, dismay turned into anger, anger spread beyond what was the focus of the announcement, then turned into aggression, et voilà, you have the toxicity mentioned. It is important to differentiate if you want to be taken seriously, because your criticism isn't unwarranted.

 

P.S. Posts to "console" the devs aren't helpful, either, by the way - they are just the opposite side of the same issue.

[Madja.1369]

> @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > @"RyuDragnier.9476" said:

> >The criticism of "you overhyped this" is something we can all agree on...

> No, it isn't. ArenaNet didn't overhype this. The community did. Anet told us _exactly_ what to expect: an announcement about Living World. What was the main thrust of the discussion about? Living World. Story. The plans for how LW content was shaking up. All of the "hype" about all the things we should have been expecting to hear came from speculation here on the forums and reddit, not from Anet. So even the calm, reasoned criticisms are built on a toxic misrepresentation of reality. If people just want to be disappointed because they hoped for more, that's fine. Sure, I hoped for more, too. But they don't get to say that Anet overhyped anything or promised more than they gave. They _gave_ more than they _promised_.

>

 

If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

[Madja.1369]

> @"Ensign.2189" said:

> They are focused on the toxicity because they are human beings having a perfectly reasonable reaction to a wave of bad press that is hard not to take personally. It is really hard to read critical feedback, and the toxic comment mixed in there with it sets people over the edge.

>

> We can talk professionality, blah blah, but this is all really emotional for everyone involved and we can let people be people.

>

> They've been rebounding from a huge morale blow. That they have been able to stay on track, and even accomplish developing additional features above and beyond that, must feel like a huge win, and is something they are proud of. Their big announce probably felt like a victory cheer for their resiliency. That it was a huge flop was likely both surprising and demoralizing.

 

I just wish they'd have talked to us about this then. Expect they went on without really telling us anything and then pretended like everything was fine. If they don't want to include us in the on-goings then they can't really expect us to be sympathetic.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Zynk.9015" said:

> > > > Because the subreddit is brigaded by people who have had their accounts banned for violating forum guidelines so they use the only social site they can and skirt the rules there.

> > >

> > > Well, there was a time that any kind of criticism and any post that didn't praise the game was warranted a ban.

> >

> > This is false.

>

> > @"TheBravery.9615" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > @"GreyFox.8046" said:

> > > > **Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"**

> > >

> > > In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

> > >

> >

> > 

> >

>

> TheBravery already added the proof.

 

That's not proof.

 

I could replace the text of a real ANet post with words that said anything I wanted using any number of readily available programs. A lot of others could, too. Maybe that poster found this elsewhere and took it at face value, but it doesn't add up to what I've seen in 7 years on the GW2 boards.

 

I've posted many negative comments about Ascended gear for years. So did a lot of other people. None of mine, and most of the ones I read were ever removed, no matter how critical they were of the _game feature_. That's been true in so many forum discussions there is no way I could begin to summarize them.

 

BTW, I am not an ardent ANet supporter who defends them come drought or high water. I _am_ someone capable of recognizing when something is drastically different than what I've experienced.

[Acheron.4731]

> @"GreyFox.8046" said:

> I've read this on the sub-reddit and it nails the mark. Puts things into perspective for ANET (If they ever do read it)

> (For those that don't browse the sub, here's the link to the thread post) :

>

> Like many have said before. This was a ticking time bomb, and it's just finally went **BOOM** . Part of me Is happy it did, so we can warrant some response from ANET and hopefully it leads to improvements with communication and management.

 

I agree. It is almost better that this was disastrous. Most people were barely hanging on anyway. Maybe a good shake-up at this point could help more than hinder.

BUT, they have to learn from it...not brush it off and play victimized.

 

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

> @"Madja.1369" said:

> > @"Ensign.2189" said:

> > They are focused on the toxicity because they are human beings having a perfectly reasonable reaction to a wave of bad press that is hard not to take personally. It is really hard to read critical feedback, and the toxic comment mixed in there with it sets people over the edge.

> >

> > We can talk professionality, blah blah, but this is all really emotional for everyone involved and we can let people be people.

> >

> > They've been rebounding from a huge morale blow. That they have been able to stay on track, and even accomplish developing additional features above and beyond that, must feel like a huge win, and is something they are proud of. Their big announce probably felt like a victory cheer for their resiliency. That it was a huge flop was likely both surprising and demoralizing.

>

> I just wish they'd have talked to us about this then. Expect they went on without really telling us anything and then pretended like everything was fine. If they don't want to include us in the on-goings then they can't really expect us to be sympathetic.

 

I saw plenty of comments sharing this need for transparency both on here and on reddit. It doesn't work like that though in corporate endeavors. There is a good chance that if there was full transparency, we wouldn't like what they would have to say. Truth hurts, and in cases like this, it would be the company's finances that would hurt the most. There is this notion that some developers live under rocks and negative community reactions shock them. I seriously doubt that and I believe most of them know exactly what to expect. But in most cases, it's their only viable option.

 

The only thing we can do is take what little info they are willing to give us and try to connect the dots of that vagueness ourselves. Using common sense and knowledge of other similar cases in the same field. I mean, if an Anet partner can do it and make a public video about that speculation, then anyone can. It's not fail-proof but I 've found it's better to be pleasantly surprised than naively optimistic.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"GreyFox.8046" said:

> Alright I've been lurking on Reddit and the forums and I've noticed current and former developers talk about the aftermath of this event. I have but 1 question:

> **Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"** and not addressing the actual fair criticism or praise for the event by answering the questions, which if answered even vaguely, would start to repair this damage. Like I keep advocating for the team needing better communication, we have successful free to play games out there who always nail the communication and marketing, please it's not wrong to take note of them, no one will bat an eye. I say all this as someone who is passionate. The fixes to all of this backlash which would've been EASILY avoided if you just took a step back and actually saw the bigger picture to this community.

> We are players in a world YOU made, we are forever grateful, and we are not out here in a secret cult out to get the developers, we want to hear from you, get to know you better, show us the passion you have outside of the game.

> So basically my point is, we need to hear more from the developers. I understand theirs "broken promises" that can occur if you started announcing stuff left and right, but sometimes simple milestones, little maps of whats to come or hope to achieve will sit better with the players because as we continue to play, we will have in the back of our minds the thought that "New content is coming" constantly, instead of "I wonder if we will get something soon other than a gemstore item".

>

> Thank you for the world you provide us with, and I hope to see more of it in the coming months, and years of course,

>

 

Part of the problem is this is a problem much higher than the devs. I highly doubt a dev made the call to overhype this and get Mike Z out there to talk about nothing much.

[Menadena.7482]

(not quoting as it is a lottery who will get their post deleted and that will delete yours)

 

Anyway, yeah, Gaile is one of the greats. I did not always agree with her but as a mod in other forums I respected her not being in a fun position.

 

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Yet, many people started attacking the content and the devs instead of focusing their dismay at what caused it.

 

Who?

 

For every "toxic" post, there have been a hundred offering constructive criticism about the presentation.

 

It sounds disingenuous to claim that the majority of the feedback these last few dast has been "attacking the devs", thus allowing ArenaNet to hide behind the excuse of "players are just SO mean!". Most comments, both here and on reddit, have been rather restrained, and yet ArenaNet is ignoring them all. I would be very much surprised if they actually apologized for the entire mess.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > Yet, many people started attacking the content and the devs instead of focusing their dismay at what caused it.

>

> Who?

 

It doesn't matter. There were plenty of exaggerated, childish reactions like from a sulking kid stamping their foot and telling their parents how mean they were.

 

> It sounds disingenuous to claim that the majority of the feedback these last few dast has been "attacking the devs"

 

many <> majority

 

> For every "toxic" post, there have been a hundred offering constructive criticism about the presentation.

 

Exactly. Only that those toxic posts make it nearly impossible to find the constructive ones amidst them, and that's a real shame.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Post only good things here or.....

 

[Hashberry.4510]

Well its been clear for ages they do not engage as professionals should. The twitter/social media environment is a childish place to swim.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Sorry Kasoki. I can't respond to you. Your comment appears to be missing :( Might be my phone. I usually post from my desktop.

[PirateSpice.8735]

> @"Madja.1369" said:

> If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

 

Of course they hyped it. Nobody is disputing that. But they didn't overhype it. That was the community. They didn't oversell anything. They set expectations with the hype and they met them. You can try to paint it poorly all you like, but you're being disingenuous. No real announcements? That is just flatly untrue. Also, I'm getting really tired of people overstating the time they spent on merch talk. It was not 15 minutes. Go watch the video again. The VP of Marketing was literally on stage for less than 4 minutes.

 

You are letting whatever negative feelings you have about this cloud your perspective of the facts. Go back and take a more objective look at what they did to hype it, what the community did to overhype it, and what Anet actually delivered. It's not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. Not even close.

[JTGuevara.9018]

> @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > @"Madja.1369" said:

> > If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

>

> Of course they hyped it. Nobody is disputing that. But they didn't overhype it. That was the community. They didn't oversell anything. They set expectations with the hype and they met them. You can try to paint it poorly all you like, but you're being disingenuous. No real announcements? That is just flatly untrue. Also, I'm getting really tired of people overstating the time they spent on merch talk. It was not 15 minutes. Go watch the video again. The VP of Marketing was literally on stage for less than 4 minutes.

>

> You are letting whatever negative feelings you have about this cloud your perspective of the facts. Go back and take a more objective look at what they did to hype it, what the community did to overhype it, and what Anet actually delivered. It's not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. Not even close.

 

FALSE. They _did_ overhype this supposed big announcement. The new stuff they announced besides the living world(which we already knew about) did not justify a live event with a countdown. People rightly assumed that something of that magnitude would bring with it an expansion or equivalent content, which it was clearly not! _This_ is why people feel cheated, because ANet failed in communicating this stuff properly. I'm sorry, but living world(again, which we already knew) and strikes and build templates, while good things, are not expansion-level content that justifies a gathering such as this.

 

That people continue to defend this fiasco is just downright mind-boggling.

 

[PirateSpice.8735]

> @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > > @"Madja.1369" said:

> > > If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

> >

> > Of course they hyped it. Nobody is disputing that. But they didn't overhype it. That was the community. They didn't oversell anything. They set expectations with the hype and they met them. You can try to paint it poorly all you like, but you're being disingenuous. No real announcements? That is just flatly untrue. Also, I'm getting really tired of people overstating the time they spent on merch talk. It was not 15 minutes. Go watch the video again. The VP of Marketing was literally on stage for less than 4 minutes.

> >

> > You are letting whatever negative feelings you have about this cloud your perspective of the facts. Go back and take a more objective look at what they did to hype it, what the community did to overhype it, and what Anet actually delivered. It's not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. Not even close.

>

> FALSE. They _did_ overhype this supposed big announcement. The new stuff they announced besides the living world(which we already knew about) did not justify a live event with a countdown. People rightly assumed that something of that magnitude would bring with it an expansion or equivalent content, which it was clearly not! _This_ is why people feel cheated, because ANet failed in communicating this stuff properly. I'm sorry, but living world(again, which we already knew) and strikes and build templates, while good things, are not expansion-level content that justifies a gathering such as this.

>

> That people continue to defend this fiasco is just downright mind-boggling.

>

 

They told us in plain language that the event is a first look at Living World Season 5. That was the very first piece of information we got about it. The live event was just because they were already at PAX. That isn't hard to understand. The _community_ started the hype train long before the countdown, so you don't get to use that as an excuse. Sorry, but Anet isn't responsible for people letting their expectations run wild when Anet stated clearly what should be expected.

 

What is mind-boggling is how people are throwing such a fit because Anet "dared" to have a live event when it was really quite convenient and easy for them to do so. All so they could show off something they're proud of, do something nice for the fans, and yes, try to hype the game and get some publicity. You know, to promote new players, which is good for everyone.

[Acheron.4731]

> @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > > > @"Madja.1369" said:

> > > > If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

> > >

> > > Of course they hyped it. Nobody is disputing that. But they didn't overhype it. That was the community. They didn't oversell anything. They set expectations with the hype and they met them. You can try to paint it poorly all you like, but you're being disingenuous. No real announcements? That is just flatly untrue. Also, I'm getting really tired of people overstating the time they spent on merch talk. It was not 15 minutes. Go watch the video again. The VP of Marketing was literally on stage for less than 4 minutes.

> > >

> > > You are letting whatever negative feelings you have about this cloud your perspective of the facts. Go back and take a more objective look at what they did to hype it, what the community did to overhype it, and what Anet actually delivered. It's not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. Not even close.

> >

> > FALSE. They _did_ overhype this supposed big announcement. The new stuff they announced besides the living world(which we already knew about) did not justify a live event with a countdown. People rightly assumed that something of that magnitude would bring with it an expansion or equivalent content, which it was clearly not! _This_ is why people feel cheated, because ANet failed in communicating this stuff properly. I'm sorry, but living world(again, which we already knew) and strikes and build templates, while good things, are not expansion-level content that justifies a gathering such as this.

> >

> > That people continue to defend this fiasco is just downright mind-boggling.

> >

>

> They told us in plain language that the event is a first look at Living World Season 5. That was the very first piece of information we got about it. The live event was just because they were already at PAX. That isn't hard to understand. The _community_ started the hype train long before the countdown, so you don't get to use that as an excuse. Sorry, but Anet isn't responsible for people letting their expectations run wild when Anet stated clearly what should be expected.

>

> What is mind-boggling is how people are throwing such a fit because Anet "dared" to have a live event when it was really quite convenient and easy for them to do so. All so they could show off something they're proud of, do something nice for the fans, and yes, try to hype the game and get some publicity. You know, to promote new players, which is good for everyone.

 

When I first read your post I thought you were being serious...then I read it with a sarcastic tone and it made since.

You had me going there, lol.

[Catchyfx.5768]

I remember I get warning everytime a make a comment in Proffesion-Warriors forum :D ah sweet dayz

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"Zynk.9015" said:

> > > > > Because the subreddit is brigaded by people who have had their accounts banned for violating forum guidelines so they use the only social site they can and skirt the rules there.

> > > >

> > > > Well, there was a time that any kind of criticism and any post that didn't praise the game was warranted a ban.

> > >

> > > This is false.

> >

> > > @"TheBravery.9615" said:

> > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > @"GreyFox.8046" said:

> > > > > **Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"**

> > > >

> > > > In their eyes, every form of criticism is "spreading toxicity".

> > > >

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> >

> > TheBravery already added the proof.

>

> That's not proof.

>

> I could replace the text of a real ANet post with words that said anything I wanted using any number of readily available programs. A lot of others could, too. Maybe that poster found this elsewhere and took it at face value, but it doesn't add up to what I've seen in 7 years on the GW2 boards.

>

> I've posted many negative comments about Ascended gear for years. So did a lot of other people. None of mine, and most of the ones I read were ever removed, no matter how critical they were of the _game feature_. That's been true in so many forum discussions there is no way I could begin to summarize them.

>

> BTW, I am not an ardent ANet supporter who defends them come drought or high water. I _am_ someone capable of recognizing when something is drastically different than what I've experienced.

 

Yeah, it was false, photoshopped and we are all a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

Mods on this forum are competent and don't give infractions out of thin air.

Fun fact: the guy that posted the screen got banned.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> > > @"RyuDragnier.9476" said:

> > > > @"GreyFox.8046" said:

> > > > **Why are they focusing on the "toxicity"**

> > > Because there's a lot of negativity going on, both here and on Reddit. The criticism of "you overhyped this" is something we can all agree on, but I've also been seeing quite a few people bashing Anet.

> >

> > You're making the same mistake ArenaNet does - thinking that any kind of negativity equals toxicity.

> >

> > The players who complain are the players that are so invested in the game they actually bother to try to change it for the better. It would be a lot easier for people to see something they don't like, give up and stop playing the game. Instead, players here try to be heard, to show ArenaNet the problems of the game and how it could be made better.

> >

> > Is there a part of the community who's toxic? Sure, just like in any community, there are a 0,01% of toxic players who just want the world to burn. But for every toxic post, I could show you one thousand posts offering constructive criticism, all being dismissed by those who think that any kind of comment that is not praising the game is toxic and should be erased.

> >

> > Trying to be in a happy little bubble where everything is always perfect and ArenaNet is always right is only going to lead to a very little, very lonely bubble.

>

> While not all negativity is toxic. I do also see a lot of people who assume that if anyone says something is toxic that it means they just don't like negative feedback. And I've been seeing a lot of outright toxic behavior. Things ranging from calling the devs names and making fun of their physical appearance to insulting other players just because that player expressed a positive opinion about something anet did or said.

>

> I think pretending that the toxic people don't exist or that they are a teeny tiny minority in the community and therefore can be ignored is not a good way to go about it. Part of the big draw for GW2 for a long time was that the community was better than the communities in a lot of other games. I don't want that to change. Even if those people are relatively few in number, we need to do our best to shut them down. Do not accept toxic behavior even if you agree with the reason the person is upset.

>

> And this isn't trying to be in a happy bubble with perfection or an ever-right anet. I have my gripes with things the devs have done. I've voiced concerns in the past and will do so again whenever I feel something isn't right.

 

Agree to a large extent with this, but at the same time we have to also consider the reasoning behind some of that toxicity.

ANET cannot be held blameless in this, we has seen of late some prime examples of that, but also there is history within the game of creating the perfect storm in which toxicity is allowed to manifest itself.. look no further than the Orr champ train, the fail events for better reward design flaws, the double edge event reward/achievement where both were once needed for differing reasons, the Frostgorge event chain that pitched story/achievement hunters against champ train.

Sorry but ANET have been their own worst enemies at times, even dating back to the good old Queendale Wars. If you create an environment in which the community can be pitched at odds with itself then toxicity will immerge absolutely, that is why we have PvP/WvW competitive game modes. Then again that in itself has fueled the potential for toxicity as other parts of the game have seen continuous update and improvement, while their particular choices of game modes are left to fester for years.

Now saying that there are of course some players that just want to be nothing more than toxic wannabes, those that thrive on the glare of infamous notoriety and will stop at nothing to get their 5minutes of fame in a forum or map chat environment and quite rightly ANET jump on it and even hit back on it..

Some maybe are just not all that great at articulating their thoughts and feelings as well as others and can find themselves on the wrong side of the line.. myself included at times I will admit that. But calling players toxic just because they don't agree or are trying to express how they feel let down by ANET like we have seen this week, is in itself just being the toxic someone this topic is centred around imo.

 

Don't get me wrong ANET will never please everyone and there will always be conflict surrounding what players want and think is right for "THEIR" game.. that actually can be healthy as ANET can not just learn from it, but maybe help steer them creatively to implementing things they perhaps had overlooked or not considered to be important to us.. but at the same time they need to improve their own ability to communicate back out to the community and not in the ways we saw this week because that has only proved to be the spark that has ignited more fires imo… learn from it and don't overhype stuff that clearly isn't anywhere close to even talk about let alone reveal.

I have said many times before, I would value ANET all the more if they would come here and just be honest tell us " look, we need to adjust the cadence of our update cycle as it is just not working too well, we need a little more time in between chapters and seasons to help us deliver the quality and quantity of content across the various facets of our game that we know is needed by our players".. that right would tell me they really do care about the game going forward, they really do listen to the community and they really are acknowledging the issues they themselves are partly responsible for creating.

 

7 yrs is pretty good in MMO space these days, but there is so much potential for many more, the possibilities to expand on GW2 are limitless imo.. if they want to - and yes to date we have got a lot out the game for free, much more than any other MMO I have played this past 15years, I don't see the gemstore as an issue in fact it is a necessity if we are to keep getting nice things, but that is a two way street.

Perhaps ANET did make mistakes a whiles back to move key people off GW2, but it's their only product they needed to explore options imo, should NCSoft allow ANET to once again express itself creatively without the burdens of so much reliance on microtransactions, have these even been the reasons behind the firestorms of the past 12-18months that has led to an uplift in this toxicity.. who knows, it's not our business, but either way both parties need to improve in a variety of areas, if we are going to get back to that happy place of 7 years ago.

 

EDIT - I said in the other large thread regarding the event.. I wasn't expecting an expansion, but I was expecting more detail.. but more importantly the event could of been so much more interactive between devs and players. It was such an opportunity to showcase the dev teams responsible for pouring their heart and soul day in day out to bring us something we can willingly throw our time and money into, to support.. but what we got was very lacking in anything the devs could or would talk about, to the point it just felt so awkward, almost gap filling.

Learn from this, get stuff in a place of readiness where those responsible for bringing it to us can freely and openly converse their creative thoughts, their visions and their work... that is where the devs should be judged not on some hashed together almost last minute looking live event that they were never going to be able to come out of smelling of roses, because it was so lacking in anything for them to showcase, that was not fair on them or the players imo.

[yann.1946]

> @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > > > @"Madja.1369" said:

> > > > If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

> > >

> > > Of course they hyped it. Nobody is disputing that. But they didn't overhype it. That was the community. They didn't oversell anything. They set expectations with the hype and they met them. You can try to paint it poorly all you like, but you're being disingenuous. No real announcements? That is just flatly untrue. Also, I'm getting really tired of people overstating the time they spent on merch talk. It was not 15 minutes. Go watch the video again. The VP of Marketing was literally on stage for less than 4 minutes.

> > >

> > > You are letting whatever negative feelings you have about this cloud your perspective of the facts. Go back and take a more objective look at what they did to hype it, what the community did to overhype it, and what Anet actually delivered. It's not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. Not even close.

> >

> > FALSE. They _did_ overhype this supposed big announcement. The new stuff they announced besides the living world(which we already knew about) did not justify a live event with a countdown. People rightly assumed that something of that magnitude would bring with it an expansion or equivalent content, which it was clearly not! _This_ is why people feel cheated, because ANet failed in communicating this stuff properly. I'm sorry, but living world(again, which we already knew) and strikes and build templates, while good things, are not expansion-level content that justifies a gathering such as this.

> >

> > That people continue to defend this fiasco is just downright mind-boggling.

> >

>

> They told us in plain language that the event is a first look at Living World Season 5. That was the very first piece of information we got about it. The live event was just because they were already at PAX. That isn't hard to understand. The _community_ started the hype train long before the countdown, so you don't get to use that as an excuse. Sorry, but Anet isn't responsible for people letting their expectations run wild when Anet stated clearly what should be expected.

>

> What is mind-boggling is how people are throwing such a fit because Anet "dared" to have a live event when it was really quite convenient and easy for them to do so. All so they could show off something they're proud of, do something nice for the fans, and yes, try to hype the game and get some publicity. You know, to promote new players, which is good for everyone.

 

I agree in general, but it is sort off disingenuous to say having a live event shouldn't change you perspective.

 

The worst thing to me is that if this was just a blog post the general reaction would have been overwhelmingly positive :(

[PirateSpice.8735]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> > @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > > @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > > > > @"Madja.1369" said:

> > > > > If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

> > > >

> > > > Of course they hyped it. Nobody is disputing that. But they didn't overhype it. That was the community. They didn't oversell anything. They set expectations with the hype and they met them. You can try to paint it poorly all you like, but you're being disingenuous. No real announcements? That is just flatly untrue. Also, I'm getting really tired of people overstating the time they spent on merch talk. It was not 15 minutes. Go watch the video again. The VP of Marketing was literally on stage for less than 4 minutes.

> > > >

> > > > You are letting whatever negative feelings you have about this cloud your perspective of the facts. Go back and take a more objective look at what they did to hype it, what the community did to overhype it, and what Anet actually delivered. It's not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. Not even close.

> > >

> > > FALSE. They _did_ overhype this supposed big announcement. The new stuff they announced besides the living world(which we already knew about) did not justify a live event with a countdown. People rightly assumed that something of that magnitude would bring with it an expansion or equivalent content, which it was clearly not! _This_ is why people feel cheated, because ANet failed in communicating this stuff properly. I'm sorry, but living world(again, which we already knew) and strikes and build templates, while good things, are not expansion-level content that justifies a gathering such as this.

> > >

> > > That people continue to defend this fiasco is just downright mind-boggling.

> > >

> >

> > They told us in plain language that the event is a first look at Living World Season 5. That was the very first piece of information we got about it. The live event was just because they were already at PAX. That isn't hard to understand. The _community_ started the hype train long before the countdown, so you don't get to use that as an excuse. Sorry, but Anet isn't responsible for people letting their expectations run wild when Anet stated clearly what should be expected.

> >

> > What is mind-boggling is how people are throwing such a fit because Anet "dared" to have a live event when it was really quite convenient and easy for them to do so. All so they could show off something they're proud of, do something nice for the fans, and yes, try to hype the game and get some publicity. You know, to promote new players, which is good for everyone.

>

> I agree in general, but it is sort off disingenuous to say having a live event shouldn't change you perspective.

>

> The worst thing to me is that if this was just a blog post the general reaction would have been overwhelmingly positive :(

 

It's not disingenuous when they've stated clearly what the event is about. And even if we accept the notion that the live event should change perspective...does that in any way justify the harsh criticisms? It's one thing to say, "I'd hoped they were going to have a bigger announcement." It's another entirely to rake Anet over the coals for not meeting expectations that they never set.

 

I get that people are frustrated with Anet for poor communication in the past. So am I. It's an ongoing problem, and I know many of the complaints are legitimate (not about this event, but the tensions have been boiling). But for the community to blow up over this particular event only makes them seem entitled, and that doesn't help the legitimate concerns to be taken seriously.

[yann.1946]

> @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > > > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > > > @"PirateSpice.8735" said:

> > > > > > @"Madja.1369" said:

> > > > > > If announcing an unprecedented event a month in advance (by a company not exactly known for their communication), renting out a theatre and inviting hundreds of people for the audience, having a 38 hour countdown to their live stream of it, doing giveaways in celebration, calling it a "Special Announcement Event" (despite there being no real announcements) and even hiring a MC isn't hyping something then I don't know what is. Nobody expected anything besides talk about next season, but we expected the next season to be something out of the ordinary to warrant all the hype they created. Instead we got around 15 minutes of talk about actual content (which seemed like standard season stuff), 15 minutes of lore and 15 minutes of merchandise talk. It's true that they hadn't promised anything, but no company ever promises anything - what they did was purposefully raise expectations. There was no way that this should have had an event of this scale. A 3-minute trailer and a blog post could have told us what they did.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course they hyped it. Nobody is disputing that. But they didn't overhype it. That was the community. They didn't oversell anything. They set expectations with the hype and they met them. You can try to paint it poorly all you like, but you're being disingenuous. No real announcements? That is just flatly untrue. Also, I'm getting really tired of people overstating the time they spent on merch talk. It was not 15 minutes. Go watch the video again. The VP of Marketing was literally on stage for less than 4 minutes.

> > > > >

> > > > > You are letting whatever negative feelings you have about this cloud your perspective of the facts. Go back and take a more objective look at what they did to hype it, what the community did to overhype it, and what Anet actually delivered. It's not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. Not even close.

> > > >

> > > > FALSE. They _did_ overhype this supposed big announcement. The new stuff they announced besides the living world(which we already knew about) did not justify a live event with a countdown. People rightly assumed that something of that magnitude would bring with it an expansion or equivalent content, which it was clearly not! _This_ is why people feel cheated, because ANet failed in communicating this stuff properly. I'm sorry, but living world(again, which we already knew) and strikes and build templates, while good things, are not expansion-level content that justifies a gathering such as this.

> > > >

> > > > That people continue to defend this fiasco is just downright mind-boggling.

> > > >

> > >

> > > They told us in plain language that the event is a first look at Living World Season 5. That was the very first piece of information we got about it. The live event was just because they were already at PAX. That isn't hard to understand. The _community_ started the hype train long before the countdown, so you don't get to use that as an excuse. Sorry, but Anet isn't responsible for people letting their expectations run wild when Anet stated clearly what should be expected.

> > >

> > > What is mind-boggling is how people are throwing such a fit because Anet "dared" to have a live event when it was really quite convenient and easy for them to do so. All so they could show off something they're proud of, do something nice for the fans, and yes, try to hype the game and get some publicity. You know, to promote new players, which is good for everyone.

> >

> > I agree in general, but it is sort off disingenuous to say having a live event shouldn't change you perspective.

> >

> > The worst thing to me is that if this was just a blog post the general reaction would have been overwhelmingly positive :(

>

> It's not disingenuous when they've stated clearly what the event is about. And even if we accept the notion that the live event should change perspective...does that in any way justify the harsh criticisms? It's one thing to say, "I'd hoped they were going to have a bigger announcement." It's another entirely to rake Anet over the coals for not meeting expectations that they never set.

>

> I get that people are frustrated with Anet for poor communication in the past. So am I. It's an ongoing problem, and I know many of the complaints are legitimate (not about this event, but the tensions have been boiling). But for the community to blow up over this particular event only makes them seem entitled, and that doesn't help the legitimate concerns to be taken seriously.

 

I never said it justified the response.

 

I merely pointed out the the overhyping of the community based on the live event is expected. And should be taken into account for the following event.

 

I agree that they delivered what they said they would. And in a blog post this would have been welcomed.

 

But it is important to look at what caused this outburst and address that.