lorddarkflare.9186 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Driger.5084 said: > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > After playing it for a whole 5hrs in wvw, it became obvious that the most likely nerfs will first be any oversights/unintended to certain trait interactions. But the actual nerf to scourge will probably start with cast times on the shroud skills, maybe 1/4sec, and/or a global cooldown of 1sec. > > > > > > > > Idk just my thoughts on it. > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha > > > > > > Are u crazy man????????????? > > > > > > Scourge need buff... if ANet nerf Scourge +1 time it's best to delete this class of the game!!! > > > > > > All classes have their pros and cons, the scourge has several and if you could not kill, it probably does not play well, sorry !! > > > > > > The scourge is sooooo slow motion that even makes you angry ... Come on ANet !!! o.O > > > > Literally everyone says Scourge is as op as it gets. pvp is not fun anymore cause Scourges and Spellbreakers can 1v3. People literally ask for Scourges or Spellbreakers in lobby(no matter the tier) cause they are just so op. But yeah Scourge needs a buff... nice one mate. > > This is why PvP (and WvW) and PvE balance needs to be handled separately. What's broken in one may be lackluster in the other. Also nerfing one to make it balanced there can trash the other. Also people should stop standing in red circles and expecting nothing to happen. That might also help. The class actually looks to be overperforming in PvE as well. But then again, so does Staff Weaver and Firebrand. I expect nerfs to all three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > One thing that came to mind after reading some of the comments was that maybe instead of cast times there would instead be a delay of 1 second after the animation starts, something like mesmer's temporal curtain. It would give people a chance to actually dodge and scourge could still cast while cc. > > ~~F2, 1/4 delay > F3, no delay > F4, 1sec delay > F5, no delay~~ > > Even trying to do that is hard, > F3 is fine as is > F5 has a barrier tied to it but also offensive Condi... How do you choose a delay for balance on that even... > F4 is actually one that can have a delay of maybe 3/4 to 1sec > F2 like F5 is mixed in important defense and offense. It should be dodgeable but also should be instant cast? Add 3/4sec delay to path of corruption trait? I do believe there should be some chance for reactive play, however 1 second would be a bit excessive since it would mean that players could literally just walk straight through a standard non-savant shade and come out the other side before the hit occurs. I think a 0.25 to 0.5 second delay would suffice. (these would actually line up nicely with the existing particle effects for the skills to) F4 however should always be a instant cast, as having the instant fear is important for making clutch plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Foud.1935 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Driger.5084 said: > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > After playing it for a whole 5hrs in wvw, it became obvious that the most likely nerfs will first be any oversights/unintended to certain trait interactions. But the actual nerf to scourge will probably start with cast times on the shroud skills, maybe 1/4sec, and/or a global cooldown of 1sec. > > > > > > > > Idk just my thoughts on it. > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha > > > > > > Are u crazy man????????????? > > > > > > Scourge need buff... if ANet nerf Scourge +1 time it's best to delete this class of the game!!! > > > > > > All classes have their pros and cons, the scourge has several and if you could not kill, it probably does not play well, sorry !! > > > > > > The scourge is sooooo slow motion that even makes you angry ... Come on ANet !!! o.O > > > > Literally everyone says Scourge is as op as it gets. pvp is not fun anymore cause Scourges and Spellbreakers can 1v3. People literally ask for Scourges or Spellbreakers in lobby(no matter the tier) cause they are just so op. But yeah Scourge needs a buff... nice one mate. > > This is why PvP (and WvW) and PvE balance needs to be handled separately. What's broken in one may be lackluster in the other. Also nerfing one to make it balanced there can trash the other. Also people should stop standing in red circles and expecting nothing to happen. That might also help. That's the thing about Scourges. Almost everyone is saying "oh just dont stand in the circles", "oh just avoid the circles", well it's not that easy as you might think. Remember Scourges have 3 of them and they are very wide. I f you press dodge from the one side of the circle you will still be inside that circle when the dodge roll finishes. Also remember that pvp and wvw is not about fights only. Its about map control. In pvp if you have to run and go range in order to try(!) to kill the Scourge then you lost the point. Just put the shades on the point, cap it and gg. And in wvw, everyone know that the team with the most scourges win cause you can control the whole battlefield. I don't expect them to nerf the shades themselves in terms of size. Making them smaller etc. But even after the bug fixes I believe that it shouldnt be that punishing to step on 1 circle. Right now is **1 step, 1 kill** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitali.5039 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 The ammo mechanic on Sand Savant lower the skill required to play the profession. To me this could be balanced if Scourge's Sand Savant will remove the Ammo/Shades and master traits will be empowered when the trait is picked. Doing so someone can think about build a proper support Scourge for PvP. (x3 barrier on Sand Shade? Yes plz) Also, why Blood As Sand have to be a minor trait? Another damage reduction who can't be removed from a necro trait line.. If Blood as Sand could increase damage reduction on Desert Empowerment, condi damage on Sadistic Searing and power damage on Unending Corruption even a "fixed" shade stacking could not prevent us to perform well on PvE, we could have (maybe) a viable PvP power build and no increased survivability (that seems high to non-necros, lol) for the support build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @lorddarkflare.9186 said: > The class actually looks to be overperforming in PvE as well. But then again, so does Staff Weaver and Firebrand. > > I expect nerfs to all three. It doesn't. It only "overperforms" on a static golem. It's actual pve performance is good, and well in line with pre-expansion classes. The nerfs will come, and likely make us underperform on most enemies as a consequence. It has a reason that qtfy doesn't recommend using scourges on most bosses. Scourge is already not THAT great a spec, dps wise. It's just good DPS in its current state, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > One thing that came to mind after reading some of the comments was that maybe instead of cast times there would instead be a delay of 1 second after the animation starts, something like mesmer's temporal curtain. It would give people a chance to actually dodge and scourge could still cast while cc. > > > > ~~F2, 1/4 delay > > F3, no delay > > F4, 1sec delay > > F5, no delay~~ > > > > Even trying to do that is hard, > > F3 is fine as is > > F5 has a barrier tied to it but also offensive Condi... How do you choose a delay for balance on that even... > > F4 is actually one that can have a delay of maybe 3/4 to 1sec > > F2 like F5 is mixed in important defense and offense. It should be dodgeable but also should be instant cast? Add 3/4sec delay to path of corruption trait? > > I do believe there should be some chance for reactive play, however 1 second would be a bit excessive since it would mean that players could literally just walk straight through a standard non-savant shade and come out the other side before the hit occurs. > I think a 0.25 to 0.5 second delay would suffice. (these would actually line up nicely with the existing particle effects for the skills to) > > F4 however should always be a instant cast, as having the instant fear is important for making clutch plays. Oh I figured it would be the other way around with instant cast barriers to save from a nasty hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious.5683 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > > Scourge is currently bugged and doing more damage than it should, due to said bug. That bug is going to be fixed, which will nerf Scourge. There will most likely be other nerfs to it as well, because it is over performing, in all areas. > > > > Okay, so let's change class. > > Even with the bug-fixing and incoming nerfs, Scourge is still going to be a great spec and in a really good spot. You don't know that. Anet is famous for nerfing necromancers into the ground. Reworks like the one that killed blighter's boon or adding ICD's to traits that make them useless. I'm not saying this is gonna happen again, but I'm pretty sure it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @vicious.5683 said: > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > > > > Scourge is currently bugged and doing more damage than it should, due to said bug. That bug is going to be fixed, which will nerf Scourge. There will most likely be other nerfs to it as well, because it is over performing, in all areas. > > > > > > Okay, so let's change class. > > > > Even with the bug-fixing and incoming nerfs, Scourge is still going to be a great spec and in a really good spot. > > You don't know that. Anet is famous for nerfing necromancers into the ground. Reworks like the one that killed blighter's boon or adding ICD's to traits that make them useless. I'm not saying this is gonna happen again, but I'm pretty sure it will. > And Necromancers are famous for not appreciating huge buffs like unholy feast/spiteful spirit/nightfall/deathly chill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > > @vicious.5683 said: > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > > > > > > Scourge is currently bugged and doing more damage than it should, due to said bug. That bug is going to be fixed, which will nerf Scourge. There will most likely be other nerfs to it as well, because it is over performing, in all areas. > > > > > > > > Okay, so let's change class. > > > > > > Even with the bug-fixing and incoming nerfs, Scourge is still going to be a great spec and in a really good spot. > > > > You don't know that. Anet is famous for nerfing necromancers into the ground. Reworks like the one that killed blighter's boon or adding ICD's to traits that make them useless. I'm not saying this is gonna happen again, but I'm pretty sure it will. > > > > And Necromancers are famous for not appreciating huge buffs like unholy feast/spiteful spirit/nightfall/deathly chill Dude you need to realize that 99% of complaints about the poor state of necro are talking about sPvP and high-level PvE. Not WvW. Yes we all know how great necro is in WvW. However you'll find that a lot of people don't play WvW nor give a crap about WvW. Also yes the listed buffs where nice, but those buffs never made the class competitive. Power reaper has never been used in any PvP tournament ever, and you'll never get into a raid on a power reaper either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > @vicious.5683 said: > > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > > > > > > > > Scourge is currently bugged and doing more damage than it should, due to said bug. That bug is going to be fixed, which will nerf Scourge. There will most likely be other nerfs to it as well, because it is over performing, in all areas. > > > > > > > > > > Okay, so let's change class. > > > > > > > > Even with the bug-fixing and incoming nerfs, Scourge is still going to be a great spec and in a really good spot. > > > > > > You don't know that. Anet is famous for nerfing necromancers into the ground. Reworks like the one that killed blighter's boon or adding ICD's to traits that make them useless. I'm not saying this is gonna happen again, but I'm pretty sure it will. > > > > > > > And Necromancers are famous for not appreciating huge buffs like unholy feast/spiteful spirit/nightfall/deathly chill > > Dude you need to realize that 99% of complaints about the poor state of necro are talking about sPvP and high-level PvE. Not WvW. > > Yes we all know how great necro is in WvW. However you'll find that a lot of people don't play WvW nor give a crap about WvW. > > Also yes the listed buffs where nice, but those buffs never made the class competitive. Power reaper has never been used in any PvP tournament ever, and you'll never get into a raid on a power reaper either. I don't spvp but I was under the impression necro/ele is the backbone of a good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > @vicious.5683 said: > > > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > > > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scourge is currently bugged and doing more damage than it should, due to said bug. That bug is going to be fixed, which will nerf Scourge. There will most likely be other nerfs to it as well, because it is over performing, in all areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, so let's change class. > > > > > > > > > > Even with the bug-fixing and incoming nerfs, Scourge is still going to be a great spec and in a really good spot. > > > > > > > > You don't know that. Anet is famous for nerfing necromancers into the ground. Reworks like the one that killed blighter's boon or adding ICD's to traits that make them useless. I'm not saying this is gonna happen again, but I'm pretty sure it will. > > > > > > > > > > And Necromancers are famous for not appreciating huge buffs like unholy feast/spiteful spirit/nightfall/deathly chill > > > > Dude you need to realize that 99% of complaints about the poor state of necro are talking about sPvP and high-level PvE. Not WvW. > > > > Yes we all know how great necro is in WvW. However you'll find that a lot of people don't play WvW nor give a crap about WvW. > > > > Also yes the listed buffs where nice, but those buffs never made the class competitive. Power reaper has never been used in any PvP tournament ever, and you'll never get into a raid on a power reaper either. > > I don't spvp but I was under the impression necro/ele is the backbone of a good team. Condi Reaper was used in tourneys during the HoT era because the entire HoT era focused on Boonshare, and necromancer had a monopoly on boonhate. Even then the consistent nerfs to bunkers resulted in many teams abandoning their necros. In solo-queue reaper always performed poorly compared to other options. Power reaper has never been used in tournaments because it's boonhate is less than condi reaper, and power reaper damage is significantly worse than other power classes. With PoF reaper has died completely since many of the new specs pack so much damage that boonrip is no longer necessary to kill people even at the highest levels of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > I hope you are trolling but past experience on the forums have me worried. > > Now excuse me, but troll for me is to play 5h just with a class and already come to a nerf conclusion !! > > Please comment on your main class and let anyone who plays necro comment on it please!! I follow a principle of not calling something OP until I've played in in PvP myself. I have a 75% win rate with Scourge right now. Only times I've lost was when the other team had a better Scourge... which isn't hard. I know I'm not using it to its full potential. Now, I suspect a large part of it is the shade bug. We should probably see how it performs once that's fixed before any (other) nerfs, since it might turn out that when it's genuinely working as intended it is in line with the competition. Right now, though, it's incredibly powerful in sPvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erhnam.5732 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 > @lorddarkflare.9186 said: > > @Driger.5084 said: > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > > @Kadeshy.7258 said: > > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > > After playing it for a whole 5hrs in wvw, it became obvious that the most likely nerfs will first be any oversights/unintended to certain trait interactions. But the actual nerf to scourge will probably start with cast times on the shroud skills, maybe 1/4sec, and/or a global cooldown of 1sec. > > > > > > > > > > Idk just my thoughts on it. > > > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha > > > > > > > > Are u crazy man????????????? > > > > > > > > Scourge need buff... if ANet nerf Scourge +1 time it's best to delete this class of the game!!! > > > > > > > > All classes have their pros and cons, the scourge has several and if you could not kill, it probably does not play well, sorry !! > > > > > > > > The scourge is sooooo slow motion that even makes you angry ... Come on ANet !!! o.O > > > > > > Literally everyone says Scourge is as op as it gets. pvp is not fun anymore cause Scourges and Spellbreakers can 1v3. People literally ask for Scourges or Spellbreakers in lobby(no matter the tier) cause they are just so op. But yeah Scourge needs a buff... nice one mate. > > > > This is why PvP (and WvW) and PvE balance needs to be handled separately. What's broken in one may be lackluster in the other. Also nerfing one to make it balanced there can trash the other. Also people should stop standing in red circles and expecting nothing to happen. That might also help. > > The class actually looks to be overperforming in PvE as well. But then again, so does Staff Weaver and Firebrand. > > I expect nerfs to all three. There is a difference. Scourge is the only playable PVE spec for necros. Eles and Guardians have more variety. Nerf Scourge, and you may drop Necros again to clay tier in group PVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekretaal.6485 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Putting a cast time on shroud skills solves nothing. The problem is that the shades have no tells when they are going to activate. Yeah, I can stay out of the circle, but that's the only counter play that's I have available. What am I supposed to do, stay outside for the duration to avoid a skill that the necromancer didn't even use? And this is a non starter when the game is based on capture points. The problem isn't actually damage, the problem is no counter play. The 'nerf' needs to be a visual tell when the shades pulse damage plus a slight, 0.25 second delay before damage application. The damage, which is merely competitive in PvE can stay. Nerfing the raw damage is a bad move on a class that has terrible mobility and few/no active defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guildabd.6529 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 second arm time to shades, wells and staff marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @guildabd.6529 said: > 1 second arm time to shades, wells and staff marks. Why would you nerf wells and staff? Sccourge doesn't even use wells. Do you really hate core necro that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @guildabd.6529 said: > > 1 second arm time to shades, wells and staff marks. > > Why would you nerf wells and staff? > > Sccourge doesn't even use wells. Do you really hate core necro that much? > He's a typical mindless necro hater. Sees the current OP spec and thinks to nerf mindlessly without knowing what is OP to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Lol they nerded the cd on f2 and nerfed the condi damage on f5. Not really sure that anything changed for wvw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 So... Its been a month and coming up on two. How do people feel about cast time on shade skills or delay or a global cooldown for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonAsh.6430 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > So... > Its been a month and coming up on two. How do people feel about cast time on shade skills or delay or a global cooldown for them? I personally think they are fine as they are, If you're not in melee they are pretty much useless and as a necro, you arent really going to get to spend much time in melee against anyone that isnt new to the game. If they gave them cast times, they would ruin them. You cant really have cast times on defense skills. Maybe a global cool down, so that you can't use multiple ones at the same time. Really, Scourge is really only "overpowered" in groups and zergs which is basically - Use all the AoE and thats about it. Remove it from that setting and it becomes far less useful. Small groups and solo and its MUCH weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustDemons.4358 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 i noticed that most guys that complain about scourge are melee players, are u justine.6351? i think nerfing dmg and defnense in any way will just kill necro. i do think however that the reason why we have this range meta again is that the boonstrip on scourge is to heavy.. in my opinion thats a way to start adjusting scourge. other then that necros has sufered from nerfs since summer again. there hasnt been a single patch where we were not tuned down. i already lose significantlly more brawls when solo roaming then a year ago. Flat nerfs wont work. we need some mechanic adjustments to that spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > So... > > Its been a month and coming up on two. How do people feel about cast time on shade skills or delay or a global cooldown for them? > > I personally think they are fine as they are, If you're not in melee they are pretty much useless and as a necro, you arent really going to get to spend much time in melee against anyone that isnt new to the game. If they gave them cast times, they would ruin them. You cant really have cast times on defense skills. Maybe a global cool down, so that you can't use multiple ones at the same time. > > Really, Scourge is really only "overpowered" in groups and zergs which is basically - Use all the AoE and thats about it. Remove it from that setting and it becomes far less useful. Small groups and solo and its MUCH weaker. No it is not fine as is. Scourge is singlehandedly holding revenants, reapers, eles, and engi completely out of the meta, while soft countering a slew of other builds. LB ranger and p/p thief are the only two builds even capable of threatening a scourge. Scourge is a 900 range kiting class that just also happens to have the best melee cleave in the game, because why bother with tradeoffs when you can just be raw irredeemable power creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustDemons.4358 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said: > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > So... > > > Its been a month and coming up on two. How do people feel about cast time on shade skills or delay or a global cooldown for them? > > > > I personally think they are fine as they are, If you're not in melee they are pretty much useless and as a necro, you arent really going to get to spend much time in melee against anyone that isnt new to the game. If they gave them cast times, they would ruin them. You cant really have cast times on defense skills. Maybe a global cool down, so that you can't use multiple ones at the same time. > > > > Really, Scourge is really only "overpowered" in groups and zergs which is basically - Use all the AoE and thats about it. Remove it from that setting and it becomes far less useful. Small groups and solo and its MUCH weaker. > > No it is not fine as is. > > Scourge is singlehandedly holding revenants, reapers, eles, and engi completely out of the meta, while soft countering a slew of other builds. LB ranger and p/p thief are the only two builds even capable of threatening a scourge. Scourge is a 900 range kiting class that just also happens to have the best melee cleave in the game, because why bother with tradeoffs when you can just be raw irredeemable power creep. > > holding revs out of meta? CoR revs with those power 1200 range spike skills are a hard counter to scourge 0.0 (due to the range) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktium.9506 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > So... > Its been a month and coming up on two. How do people feel about cast time on shade skills or delay or a global cooldown for them? That depends entirely on if there's any compensation for it elsewhere. Shade skills are very weak on their own. This can't be stressed enough, traits are what makes the Shade skills potent. I wouldn't mind seeing Shade skill recharges increased by 33% across the board and maybe an added cast time of ½ seconds on each skill all with a unique animation. But only if the power or effect of the Shade skills themselves is increased by an equal amount. Mathematically this would be around 70% increased potency/effect to account for the recharge increase and cast time I used as examples. Instant cast skills are cancer in general and I would see them gone from the game as a whole if possible. Everything should have some amount of cast time or aftercast to enable more counterplay and make things less spammy. But nerf Shades too much and you might as well play core Necro. Which would actually be fine for me in a vacuum, but we can't expect every other elite spec for every other class to have their elite specs brought down to core class levels of terrible. And I really wouldn't like seeing my main class get dumpstered that hard, it's already pretty rough in Raids and as a matter of fact also in PvP without competent support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @JustDemons.4358 said: > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said: > > > > @Justine.6351 said: > > > > So... > > > > Its been a month and coming up on two. How do people feel about cast time on shade skills or delay or a global cooldown for them? > > > > > > I personally think they are fine as they are, If you're not in melee they are pretty much useless and as a necro, you arent really going to get to spend much time in melee against anyone that isnt new to the game. If they gave them cast times, they would ruin them. You cant really have cast times on defense skills. Maybe a global cool down, so that you can't use multiple ones at the same time. > > > > > > Really, Scourge is really only "overpowered" in groups and zergs which is basically - Use all the AoE and thats about it. Remove it from that setting and it becomes far less useful. Small groups and solo and its MUCH weaker. > > > > No it is not fine as is. > > > > Scourge is singlehandedly holding revenants, reapers, eles, and engi completely out of the meta, while soft countering a slew of other builds. LB ranger and p/p thief are the only two builds even capable of threatening a scourge. Scourge is a 900 range kiting class that just also happens to have the best melee cleave in the game, because why bother with tradeoffs when you can just be raw irredeemable power creep. > > > > > > holding revs out of meta? CoR revs with those power 1200 range spike skills are a hard counter to scourge 0.0 (due to the range) I wasn't talking about WvW. Not that CoR revs mean anything in a zerg where you have two dozen scourges barrier sharing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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