Why the incoming nerfs??

[Herp your Derp.3542]

> @Kumouta.4985 said:

> If you're not a necro, use one of your blocks or evade or movement things to get out of range and out of the death circles. If you can't do that, don't pvp.

 

You're missing the point. The death circles are on the capture point. By avoiding them, you're avoiding the game's win condition. But by stepping onto them, you instantly get thousands of damage per tick of condis on you. Even after you cleanse them, they're back on you a second later. Condis are supposed to be about _Damage over Time_, but in Scourge's case they will burst you. And everybody standing around you.

 

DoTs are supposed to be slower damage that's harder to avoid. Burst is supposed to be faster damage that's easier to avoid. It's a simple concept, and it's why Scourge is completely deserving of these nerfs.

[Kumouta.4985]

And then when you're off the point, use some handy dandy ranged weapons or pull the scourge off or force them to use death circles off point.... Killing and getting a bit less points > Suicide.

DoT doesn't mean it needs to give you half a minute to react. get off point then cleanse.

 

If you REALLY want to jump in but not die, bring a support who's good at cleansing and dealing mediocre damage. You'll kill the scourge before dying if you and your supp are good.

[Burnfall.9573]

Why the incoming nerfs??

 

Necromancer are always the target for nerfs, why not strip away any chance of happiness from them again :(

 

" **The Worst Kind Of Pain Is The Fear Of Being Hurt Again** "

Necromancer

 


[PierPiero.9142]

> @Sylent.3165 said:

> I see EVERY other class doing mass hate against scourge because they do too much damage????

>

> I don't get get it all. Sure the scourge has decent damage but why do all these complainers complain and complain and complain until they get nerfed?

>

> Scourge has ONE major offense indicated by a big red circle on the ground. When you stand in the circle you deserve to die.

>

> Scourge and necro in general has bad healing skills, the barriers are knocked out instantly in one hit, they have no stability except from one skill. They lost the second health bar which was really the only defense, they can dodge roll and that's about it no leaps or mobility in a fight yet everyone wants them nerfed???

>

> I just don't understand how bad of a player you can be to just stand in a red circle and complain a class is op.

>

> The worst thing to is I bet all the nerfs become global and not just in wvw and will make this class just horrible in PvE.

>

> People need to just stop complaining and learn to dodge or use a ranged weapon already

The real problem imho is only in spvp. In spvp , where for winning you have to stay on a point, it is a too high advantage : "Scourge has ONE major offense indicated by a big red circle on the ground. When you stand in the circle you deserve to die" . This means that if you 1 vs 1 with a scourge it is quite impossible to decap till scourge is death . In my opinion they 'd to change it like guardians trap : i make them trigger and then i can fight .... in this ways otherwise in contest game it is too strong.

For wvw or dueling it is less important becouse there is no difference if i kyte you all the time and stay far from you till your dead but in spvp this scourge mechanic it is really op even if it does not means that scourge is unkillable

 

 

[ThomasC.1056]

> @Sylent.3165 said:

> I see EVERY other class doing mass hate against scourge because they do too much damage????

>

> I don't get get it all. Sure the scourge has decent damage but why do all these complainers complain and complain and complain until they get nerfed?

>

> Scourge has ONE major offense indicated by a big red circle on the ground. When you stand in the circle you deserve to die.

>

> Scourge and necro in general has bad healing skills, the barriers are knocked out instantly in one hit, they have no stability except from one skill. They lost the second health bar which was really the only defense, they can dodge roll and that's about it no leaps or mobility in a fight yet everyone wants them nerfed???

>

> I just don't understand how bad of a player you can be to just stand in a red circle and complain a class is op.

>

> The worst thing to is I bet all the nerfs become global and not just in wvw and will make this class just horrible in PvE.

>

> People need to just stop complaining and learn to dodge or use a ranged weapon already

 

I totally agree with that. It's really easy to kite, range or counter a single scourge, which has really few efficient defense against any kind of damage, while the damage output is mostly "fair" against mildly clueless opponents. Which makes it an average class from open PvE.

 

Now, I also understand the 2 main issues about scourges, namely sPvP, and scourges zergs. In the latter case, it's not an instrinsic issue of scourges, but of the system that allows stacking and multiplications. For sPvP, I agree it's trickier.

 

Anyway, I'm deeply against any kind of nerf, because shades (and burning) are the core of what scourges are, and nerf them would just mean flush scourges and all the design work down the toilets, mowing a class to uselessness in open PvE just because niche uses of it might be overpowered.

 

And it tells wonders about the way some things are overlooked by the dev team when designing an elite spec...

[Harry Foud.1935]

> @Zero.3871 said:

> Last reset we had a zerg with 50% scourge and maybe 6 guardians, and we get destroyed by enemy zerg because couldnt cast any skill because of perm stuns... so scourge has poblems too. you just need to use this weeak points instead of brainless yolo pushing everything...

>

> Problem is just all the try hard kiddies in this game know the time before hot, when necros were freebaggy for all and they wish this time back because this skillless player cannot accept that they cannot anymore just yolo pushing necros and perma stun to win EZ.

>

> -today i saw again a thief (perma invis, perma dodging jumped for minutes between 15 people and cannot get killed because porting permanently through the area.

> -warrior bubbles OP too.

> -mesmers -> one shoot shatters all the time (look YT vids)

> -firebrand, holosmith increadible dmg output.

>

> soooooo many OP classes, but if everything is OP, nothing is really OP. finally its skill, wether you win or not...but try hard kiddies looses all the time, so they cry: class X is OP, or skill Y is OP. because they cannot accept that they are skillless.

>

> but lets wait for balance patch. they "just" want split barrier support while massive dmg. hopefully they taking away some barrier and give us some stability for that.

 

Did you just used youtube videos as an argument? On youtube people show only the kills and the outplays and the nice stuff. If you go down that path youtube is filled with Spellbreakes and Scourges that 1v3 and 1v5. If you play an op class the least you can do is just admit it. Everyone knows that Scourge is the most op thing in guild wars right now. People request to party with Scourges for pvp without even asking what tier they are because it's just so op. And yet we, Mesmers, try somehow to make Mirage work which is full of problems an bugs ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9261/mirage-bugs-and-problems-i-hope-for-a-response-from-anet#latest ).

Do you know to whom Scourges are most harmful? To non-Scourge necros. If one spec is way too op then the core class and the previous spec somehow becomes useless to everyone. And the worst thing for the community and the game is to want to play a class and not be accepted. Just like Reapers feel and Mirages feel when Chrono exist.

[Ghostt.1293]

that is why reaper is weak other eles dying too quick with their zerk glass meta build

asking for buffs and necro nerfs

[Daffan.8924]

They need to make seperate dmg scaling and everything for abilities for pvp and pve. WVW is a different zerg beast that doesn't matter.

[Avigrus.2871]

This is Dhummfire all over again.... lol :s :s :s :s :s

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > Condi daredevil provides absolutely no group support, existing as little more than a beatstick. Yet, it had a spot in high end fractals and raids, precisely because it was a really good beatstick. When I make the claim that all you need is DPS, I'm not pulling it from thin air. I'm citing history.

>

> However, there is dps and dps. even if dardevil and reaper had the same dps, the fact that daredevil have an higher attack rate make it easier to maintain it's dps while still avoiding damage.

 

It should be taken as a given that any claims about needing higher DPS also includes that it is consistent and realistic.

 

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> That's why I say it again, a block on the necromancer would be seen as powercreep because it would "trivialize" the mechanism that he couldn't cope with before. More dps would also be powercreep because it's against the attrition design of the necromancer that want you to outsustain your foe on long fight (It "trivialize" fight that you had to invest time in before). And yes usefull support on a necromancer would also be some power creep because it would introduce more support in the game and thus make team stronger, trivializing existing content (alacrity was power creep, grace of the land was powercreep, barrier is a kind of powercreep... everything new you add in a game is a powercreep)

 

The overall performance of the necromancer wouldn't be outshining the other classes if given a block. It would just help the necromancer personally cope better. Given the finite space on a team, any unique buffs or abilities the necro has are overwriting the unique buffs or abilities of other classes that aren't taken. If you bring barrier, you lose pinpoint distribution. The necromancer being competitive doesn't suddenly trivialize content. Making weaker specs better isn't powercreep, it is balance. If you're talking about PVE content then you have to look at the perspective of the total group, not just how your class does personally.

 

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> In an ideal world, all the strength of a profession would be inherent to the core profession and there would be no variation of damage/defense/support when they add new e-spec. However, core professions are left in their state because it's more fun to tune down new content than ancient content. In such a mindset there can only be powercreep. The necromancer was weak in it's core state and would be doomed to stay weak without powercreep, however you put it, the necromancer need either a boring huge work on it's core ability or new exciting e-specs bringing powercreep.

 

There is nothing stopping the devs from simply making core specs better, though. This "mindset" you speak of doesn't exist. Before PoF there were already a series of core buffs givem to all of the classes. One of these effects was that core power mesmer gained a substantial increase in damage.

[nekretaal.6485]

Scourge is going to get nerfed over and over again, because at the basic level the class is something that players of Guild wars 2 hate hate hate to play against.

 

Shades are Turrets, and PvP players hate to play against turrets. Whenever they see a turret (or a pet or a minion or a gyro or a whatever the name doesnt matter), they are going to complain hard until it is nerfed out of most games. It's really not much more complicated than that.

 

All of the Scourge's F-skills and punishment skills are tied to a mechanic that the community hates and will not allow to be good.

 

But, Scourge is even more broken than some of the other turrets or pets in this game because of 2 additional factors: instant cast and no tell. Instant cast probably needs to stay if barrier is the only defense for the class, but there should be some sort of better visual. A better visual plus a delay before the damage pulses start and the pvp problem is solved in a way that doesn't kill pvE damage.

 

Even with all of the above true, the Scourge really ought to be given a chance. It basically plays similar to trapper classes and those play a crucial role in keeping certain bunker specs honest.

 

Instead, the whole thing is going to get nerfed into oblivion. The class had to be good while the game was being sold, but now that the game is out it can be stowed.

[nekretaal.6485]

Just compare the Visual tell when a Shade gets activated versus when a Dragonhunter trap gets sprung.

 

In the latter case, there's all sort of visual noise that damage is coming and you better move. But for the Shade? Nothing similar. That, and not the damage, is the problem.

[Dadnir.5038]

Well, You can't blame me for being pessimistic. the game have been release for more than 5 years now and core profession still aren't balance. Cluncky mechanisms (like ranger's pet) still need tons of work. The core professions (all of them) should all already be stabilized and competitive between each other, yet this is not the case. That's why whatever e-spec they produce it feel like powercreep.

 

Players already gave all the feedback possible and even tried to give some solution to the various issue of each professions. Yet most core ranger pets are still awfull, the core shroud still have it's super slow AA, it's laughable dark path (which is weaker than Scourge F2 and yet have a wooping 15 second cool down) and it's pathetic life transfert. Mesmer still have uncompetitive dps... etc.

 

You are an optimist person and I'm sure it deserve you in life, however anet prove over the year that there is not much hope when it come to fix once and for all the things relating to profession balance that need fix. I'd really want to see this ideal world that I talk about however at the rythm at which anet fix core profession it's not going to happen in just a few years.

[Wintermute.5408]

If shades covering capture points is problem, wouldn't it be more reasonable to look at, you know, coverage instead of damage? Can't they split the size of shades (and, precisely, sand savant) for PVE and PVP?

[Athrenn.9468]

If the problem is WvW balance then can we please just have separate WvW versions of the skills so that the PvE meta doesn't have to change every time something breaks in WvW? I really hope that's what they're doing already, but it would make everyone's lives a whole lot easier. (Except for the balance team's, but you know what I mean.)

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Scourge is very boring. F1 (3x) -> F5...then watch everything melts. The shades need to be killable IMO to create some kind of pressure by forcing the Scourge to play smart with the shade else they'll run out of life force. At its current state, I can literally have a total zone control using Staff and wells...it's worst in WvW.

[Ravezaar.4951]

There are very few things I hate more then ppl comming here pretending to be a Necro and start there sentence with: "I main Necro, but...."

[Velran.1052]

... Except you can put a shade under someone then instantly f2-f5 to corrupt like 6 boons and apply an ungodly amount of conditions. With the longest CD being 16 when traited...

 

That said I do agree that they have to make PvP/WvW specific changes so that scourge keeps a place in PvE. But that will never happen so fair your 38k dps goodbye.

[Herp your Derp.3542]

> @Ravezaar.4951 said:

> There are very few things I hate more then ppl comming here pretending to be a Necro and start there sentence with: "I main Necro, but...."

 

If you're referring to me, I assure you that I do main necro. It's my favorite class both mechanically and thematically. I only began PvPing in this game fairly recently, having played exclusively PvE since release, and it was a LOT more fun before PoF dropped. Once people figured out how strong Scourge was, I felt obligated to play it or I'd be a liability to my team. I don't hate the spec, but I'd much rather be playing Reaper instead. Right now if I switch to Reaper and the enemy has a Scourge, they win 99.9% of the time.

 

Voicing criticism about something you like doesn't mean that you're lying about liking it.

[Sylent.3165]

> @Athrenn.9468 said:

> If the problem is WvW balance then can we please just have separate WvW versions of the skills so that the PvE meta doesn't have to change every time something breaks in WvW? I really hope that's what they're doing already, but it would make everyone's lives a whole lot easier. (Except for the balance team's, but you know what I mean.)

 

Your funny ha.

 

Sadly the devs have never balanced pve vs pvp as well which destroys so many decent PvE builds to nothing

[Daffan.8924]

> @nekretaal.6485 said:

> Scourge is going to get nerfed over and over again, because at the basic level the class is something that players of Guild wars 2 hate hate hate to play against.

>

> Shades are Turrets, and PvP players hate to play against turrets. Whenever they see a turret (or a pet or a minion or a gyro or a whatever the name doesnt matter), they are going to complain hard until it is nerfed out of most games. It's really not much more complicated than that.

>

> All of the Scourge's F-skills and punishment skills are tied to a mechanic that the community hates and will not allow to be good.

>

> But, Scourge is even more broken than some of the other turrets or pets in this game because of 2 additional factors: instant cast and no tell. Instant cast probably needs to stay if barrier is the only defense for the class, but there should be some sort of better visual. A better visual plus a delay before the damage pulses start and the pvp problem is solved in a way that doesn't kill pvE damage.

>

> Even with all of the above true, the Scourge really ought to be given a chance. It basically plays similar to trapper classes and those play a crucial role in keeping certain bunker specs honest.

>

> Instead, the whole thing is going to get nerfed into oblivion. The class had to be good while the game was being sold, but now that the game is out it can be stowed.

 

When you say better visual, they should just rework most of the visuals for the game. Too much clutter, visual effects, particles and other garbge. Team fights with more then 3 people are a mess.

 

> @Velran.1052 said:

> ... Except you can put a shade under someone then instantly f2-f5 to corrupt like 6 boons and apply an ungodly amount of conditions. With the longest CD being 16 when traited...

>

> That said I do agree that they have to make PvP/WvW specific changes so that scourge keeps a place in PvE. But that will never happen so fair your 38k dps goodbye.

 

It's weird they don't do this.

 

WoW had the same problem for years, but they slowly fixed it (pvp traits / or straight up pvp damage is different to pve damage, e.g skill does 40% less stun duration in pvp etc)

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Go get into melee range with this shit while playing some other class (not spellbreaker) on WvW and you will know why. Before an excuse was Necro has no mobility, now it's no longer an excuse. I am looking forward to it's nerf.

[Ravezaar.4951]

> @"Herp your Derp.3542" said:

> > @Ravezaar.4951 said:

> > There are very few things I hate more then ppl comming here pretending to be a Necro and start there sentence with: "I main Necro, but...."

>

> If you're referring to me, I assure you that I do main necro. It's my favorite class both mechanically and thematically. I only began PvPing in this game fairly recently, having played exclusively PvE since release, and it was a LOT more fun before PoF dropped. Once people figured out how strong Scourge was, I felt obligated to play it or I'd be a liability to my team. I don't hate the spec, but I'd much rather be playing Reaper instead. Right now if I switch to Reaper and the enemy has a Scourge, they win 99.9% of the time.

>

> Voicing criticism about something you like doesn't mean that you're lying about liking it.

 

wasnt directed at one person, was directed at all those false Necros on this Forum.

[Brujeria.7536]

It's simple: Scourge is changing the flow of the game in PvP and WvW. It shakes things up, it turns the possibility of damage for the necromancer class into something viable.

 

People don't wan't to adapt, or think in GW2. Scourge in the current state forces people to think - not facetanking, not camping on point, use condition clears clever, not spam them. If you dont understand and adapt you die - and thats completly fine. You dont bath in a Zerker Staff ele meteorstorm or lava font - or you die. You dont ignore a thief attacking you or you die.

 

The second point is that Necros are supposed to ruin stuff. You dont apply boons, you corrupt them. People dont cry if you can stack the same boons their class can, they cry if you remove THEIR boons. Altough these are equal in efficiency, one feels much more punishing.

 

Third is anet does not know how to balance a MMO. They know no limits for something, and limit other things without any reason, stalling the entire expierience.

 

 

[Zero Solstice.9754]

> @Sylent.3165 said:

> I just don't understand how bad of a player you can be to just stand in a red circle and complain a class is op.

 

D r a g o n h u n t e r