Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > Ah. Interesting. So let me borrow a phrase from a post of yours above. > > > > > > You are the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? It's like you pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > Try to stick by what you preach please. > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be unregulated thanks. Especially for something as benign as pixels that have no value and parents that cannot say no to kids? How do the kids even get the money for this and their "addiction" in the first place? Oh I know let's just ignore that..... I know let's regulate it for everyone or just ban it. > > How would kids get money to buy alcohol or drugs? You keep digging it deeper. Oh I know parents not watching their kids. Which means it's their fault. Not mine, I don't need regulation or censorship, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > Research into how the brain is affected suggests otherwise. You are willfully misinformed. You either lack even basic understanding of how drugs and our brain works, or you are willfully misrepesenting these issues. No one is denying that there is difference of severity in addiction. But to put addiction off as ONLY being produced by XYZ is ludicrously idiotic. > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. You can make data and statistics prove anything. Parents need to watch their kids, I'm 100% convinced this is a religious moral argument about gambling and vice rather then based on sound logic. > > > > Yes, I'm sure you are. Just like I'm a NASA astraunaut. > > I actually am but whatever lol. Nothing in this thread suggests you have even an elementary understanding of human psychology, the simplest workings of the brain or of social pressures and sturctures. Both your limited understading and hilarious bad comparisons of drugs and alcohol to gaming as well as constant harping on how parents need to watch their children suggest you have 0 knowledge of either field. But sure, maybe you are a psychologist, from 40 years ago and you decided to full stop on any psychology related subjects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > Ah. Interesting. So let me borrow a phrase from a post of yours above. > > > > > > > > You are the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? It's like you pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > Try to stick by what you preach please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be unregulated thanks. Especially for something as benign as pixels that have no value and parents that cannot say no to kids? How do the kids even get the money for this and their "addiction" in the first place? Oh I know let's just ignore that..... I know let's regulate it for everyone or just ban it. > > > > How would kids get money to buy alcohol or drugs? You keep digging it deeper. > > Oh I know parents not watching their kids. Which means it's their fault. Not mine, I don't need regulation or censorship, thanks. Ah, so you do think drugs and alcohol are solely a matter of parental responsibility. So by your logic, those regulations are hand holding too. Why deny it in the previous post then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchup.1053 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 The way the BLCs are marketed is very different than loot boxes in most games. You can also see what you have a chance of getting. This may not save the BLC from falling under this grouping but it is a lesser evil than what we see in other games. (My opinion.) You can still get one key a week by farming the level 10 character personal story. That is a guaranteed key, No RNG involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiah.2967 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 By definition loot-boxes are gambling: Gambling the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. take risky action in the hope of a desired result. to bet on an uncertain outcome Gambling, the betting or staking of something of value, with consciousness of risk and hope of gain, on the outcome of a game, a contest, or an uncertain event whose result may be determined by chance or accident or have an unexpected result by reason of the bettor’s miscalculation. - Britannica. Shortly after the US decided on self regulation... NBA 2K20 Trailer: Was that a trailer for a NBA game or an online casino? Pachinko...Slot Machines.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > Research into how the brain is affected suggests otherwise. You are willfully misinformed. You either lack even basic understanding of how drugs and our brain works, or you are willfully misrepesenting these issues. No one is denying that there is difference of severity in addiction. But to put addiction off as ONLY being produced by XYZ is ludicrously idiotic. > > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. You can make data and statistics prove anything. Parents need to watch their kids, I'm 100% convinced this is a religious moral argument about gambling and vice rather then based on sound logic. > > > > > > Yes, I'm sure you are. Just like I'm a NASA astraunaut. > > > > I actually am but whatever lol. > > Nothing in this thread suggests you have even an elementary understanding of human psychology, the simplest workings of the brain or of social pressures and sturctures. > > Both your limited understading and hilarious bad comparisons of drugs and alcohol to gaming as well as constant harping on how parents need to watch their children suggest you have 0 knowledge of either field. > > But sure, maybe you are a psychologist, from 40 years ago and you decided to full stop on any psychology related subjects. Sorry you can get addicted to anything, let me guess you're not ok with any gambling of any form right? How do you feel about it for people over 21? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Josiah.2967" said: > By definition loot-boxes are gambling: > > Gambling > the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. > take risky action in the hope of a desired result. > to bet on an uncertain outcome > > Gambling, the betting or staking of something of value, with consciousness of risk and hope of gain, on the outcome of a game, a contest, or an uncertain event whose result may be determined by chance or accident or have an unexpected result by reason of the bettor’s miscalculation. - Britannica. > > Shortly after the US decided on self regulation... > > NBA 2K20 Trailer: > > > Was that a trailer for a NBA game or an online casino? > > Pachinko...Slot Machines.... > @"Josiah.2967" said: > By definition loot-boxes are gambling: > > Gambling > the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes. > take risky action in the hope of a desired result. > to bet on an uncertain outcome > > Gambling, the betting or staking of something of value, with consciousness of risk and hope of gain, on the outcome of a game, a contest, or an uncertain event whose result may be determined by chance or accident or have an unexpected result by reason of the bettor’s miscalculation. - Britannica. > > Shortly after the US decided on self regulation... > > NBA 2K20 Trailer: > > > Was that a trailer for a NBA game or an online casino? > > Pachinko...Slot Machines.... Theres a difference between legal definition of gambling and the dictionary definition of gambling. Farming mobs for precursors or crossing the street are gambles too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > Ah. Interesting. So let me borrow a phrase from a post of yours above. > > > > > > > > > > You are the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? It's like you pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > Try to stick by what you preach please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be unregulated thanks. Especially for something as benign as pixels that have no value and parents that cannot say no to kids? How do the kids even get the money for this and their "addiction" in the first place? Oh I know let's just ignore that..... I know let's regulate it for everyone or just ban it. > > > > > > How would kids get money to buy alcohol or drugs? You keep digging it deeper. > > > > Oh I know parents not watching their kids. Which means it's their fault. Not mine, I don't need regulation or censorship, thanks. > > Ah, so you do think drugs and alcohol are solely a matter of parental responsibility. So by your logic, those regulations are hand holding too. Why deny it in the previous post then? I think less laws are always better, especially with benign things like digital lootboxes, which are entirely optional, cosmetic and have 0 monetary value. I mean do you get upset when the crackerjack box doesnt have the toy you wanted inside it, or do you scream bloody murder? Let me guess you think gambling of any form is bad, and should be restricted or outlawed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah. Interesting. So let me borrow a phrase from a post of yours above. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? It's like you pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Try to stick by what you preach please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be unregulated thanks. Especially for something as benign as pixels that have no value and parents that cannot say no to kids? How do the kids even get the money for this and their "addiction" in the first place? Oh I know let's just ignore that..... I know let's regulate it for everyone or just ban it. > > > > > > > > How would kids get money to buy alcohol or drugs? You keep digging it deeper. > > > > > > Oh I know parents not watching their kids. Which means it's their fault. Not mine, I don't need regulation or censorship, thanks. > > > > Ah, so you do think drugs and alcohol are solely a matter of parental responsibility. So by your logic, those regulations are hand holding too. Why deny it in the previous post then? > > I think less laws are always better, especially with benign things like digital lootboxes, which are entirely optional, cosmetic and have 0 monetary value. I mean do you get upset when the crackerjack box doesnt have the toy you wanted inside it, or do you scream bloody murder? > > Let me guess you think gambling of any form is bad, and should be restricted or outlawed? My question was specific not general about more or less laws. Drugs, physical gambling, and alcohol for minors. You 've been very specific with your posts so far, why so vague about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > > > Research into how the brain is affected suggests otherwise. You are willfully misinformed. You either lack even basic understanding of how drugs and our brain works, or you are willfully misrepesenting these issues. No one is denying that there is difference of severity in addiction. But to put addiction off as ONLY being produced by XYZ is ludicrously idiotic. > > > > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. You can make data and statistics prove anything. Parents need to watch their kids, I'm 100% convinced this is a religious moral argument about gambling and vice rather then based on sound logic. > > > > > > > > Yes, I'm sure you are. Just like I'm a NASA astraunaut. > > > > > > I actually am but whatever lol. > > > > Nothing in this thread suggests you have even an elementary understanding of human psychology, the simplest workings of the brain or of social pressures and sturctures. > > > > Both your limited understading and hilarious bad comparisons of drugs and alcohol to gaming as well as constant harping on how parents need to watch their children suggest you have 0 knowledge of either field. > > > > But sure, maybe you are a psychologist, from 40 years ago and you decided to full stop on any psychology related subjects. > > Sorry you can get addicted to anything, let me guess you're not ok with any gambling of any form right? How do you feel about it for people over 21? Why the arbitrary age? You do realize that you are basically just picking the currently established legal age, in some countries, which also was not always present? Is there some significance to age 21? You do realize that the old, and to some extent reasoning behind using age 21 as basis for regulation, belief that a person is sufficiently devleloped by age 21 has been found wanting. As such age 21, from a psyochological standpoint is an arbitrary age point. I don't mind gambling at age 21 or above, I don't even mind gambling at all. My general stance is: I dislike any form of regulation when it is government imposed. But since I do not deal in black and white issues and realize there is a lot of nuance to things, I will question both the private and government sector, especially on issues where a lot of money is involved. When the private sector fails in self regualting itsself, government unfortunately needs to step in. This is getting muddier and muddier from year to year since the amount of data gathered and the possibilities for using this information to manipulate and direct other people's actions creates dangerous loopholes and opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Research into how the brain is affected suggests otherwise. You are willfully misinformed. You either lack even basic understanding of how drugs and our brain works, or you are willfully misrepesenting these issues. No one is denying that there is difference of severity in addiction. But to put addiction off as ONLY being produced by XYZ is ludicrously idiotic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. You can make data and statistics prove anything. Parents need to watch their kids, I'm 100% convinced this is a religious moral argument about gambling and vice rather then based on sound logic. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I'm sure you are. Just like I'm a NASA astraunaut. > > > > > > > > I actually am but whatever lol. > > > > > > Nothing in this thread suggests you have even an elementary understanding of human psychology, the simplest workings of the brain or of social pressures and sturctures. > > > > > > Both your limited understading and hilarious bad comparisons of drugs and alcohol to gaming as well as constant harping on how parents need to watch their children suggest you have 0 knowledge of either field. > > > > > > But sure, maybe you are a psychologist, from 40 years ago and you decided to full stop on any psychology related subjects. > > > > Sorry you can get addicted to anything, let me guess you're not ok with any gambling of any form right? How do you feel about it for people over 21? > > Why the arbitrary age? You do realize that you are basically just picking the currently established legal age, in some countries, which also was not always present? Is there some significance to age 21? You do realize that the old, and to some extent reasoning behind using age 21 as basis for regulation, belief that a person is sufficiently devleloped by age 21 has been found wanting. As such age 21, from a psyochological standpoint is an arbitrary age point. > > I don't mind gambling at age 21 or above, I don't even mind gambling at all. > > My general stance is: I dislike any form of regulation when it is government imposed. > > But since I do not deal in black and white issues and realize there is a lot of nuance to things, I will question both the private and government sector, especially on issues where a lot of money is involved. When the private sector fails in self regualting itsself, government unfortunately needs to step in. This is getting muddier and muddier from year to year since the amount of data gathered and the possibilities for using this information to manipulate and direct other people's actions creates dangerous loopholes and opportunities. If you dont like regulation then why regulate this? And what regulations do you want. Are you also aware that regulations begin a slippery slope of precedence to outright banning an activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah. Interesting. So let me borrow a phrase from a post of yours above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? It's like you pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try to stick by what you preach please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be unregulated thanks. Especially for something as benign as pixels that have no value and parents that cannot say no to kids? How do the kids even get the money for this and their "addiction" in the first place? Oh I know let's just ignore that..... I know let's regulate it for everyone or just ban it. > > > > > > > > > > How would kids get money to buy alcohol or drugs? You keep digging it deeper. > > > > > > > > Oh I know parents not watching their kids. Which means it's their fault. Not mine, I don't need regulation or censorship, thanks. > > > > > > Ah, so you do think drugs and alcohol are solely a matter of parental responsibility. So by your logic, those regulations are hand holding too. Why deny it in the previous post then? > > > > I think less laws are always better, especially with benign things like digital lootboxes, which are entirely optional, cosmetic and have 0 monetary value. I mean do you get upset when the crackerjack box doesnt have the toy you wanted inside it, or do you scream bloody murder? > > > > Let me guess you think gambling of any form is bad, and should be restricted or outlawed? > > My question was specific not general about more or less laws. Drugs, physical gambling, and alcohol for minors. You 've been very specific with your posts so far, why so vague about this? Crackerjack box I would argue has more value and the same type of addictive draw as a digital lootbox. Why are we not regulating those? They even prey on children with cartoon characters on the box, and they contain a ton of sugar, the most addictive substance on the planet. They also have an rng surprise inside. And like a black lion chest even if you dont get what you want you still get the crackerjacks just like with black lion chests how you get something from it either way, like black lion statues. I would argue that the candy is actual food and the prize is a physical object which has monetary value unlike the contents of the black lion chest. So why not regulate these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah. Interesting. So let me borrow a phrase from a post of yours above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? It's like you pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try to stick by what you preach please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be unregulated thanks. Especially for something as benign as pixels that have no value and parents that cannot say no to kids? How do the kids even get the money for this and their "addiction" in the first place? Oh I know let's just ignore that..... I know let's regulate it for everyone or just ban it. > > > > > > > > > > > > How would kids get money to buy alcohol or drugs? You keep digging it deeper. > > > > > > > > > > Oh I know parents not watching their kids. Which means it's their fault. Not mine, I don't need regulation or censorship, thanks. > > > > > > > > Ah, so you do think drugs and alcohol are solely a matter of parental responsibility. So by your logic, those regulations are hand holding too. Why deny it in the previous post then? > > > > > > I think less laws are always better, especially with benign things like digital lootboxes, which are entirely optional, cosmetic and have 0 monetary value. I mean do you get upset when the crackerjack box doesnt have the toy you wanted inside it, or do you scream bloody murder? > > > > > > Let me guess you think gambling of any form is bad, and should be restricted or outlawed? > > > > My question was specific not general about more or less laws. Drugs, physical gambling, and alcohol for minors. You 've been very specific with your posts so far, why so vague about this? > > Crackerjack box I would argue has more value and the same type of addictive draw as a digital lootbox. Why are we not regulating those? They even prey on children with cartoon characters on the box, and they contain a ton of sugar, the most addictive substance on the planet. They also have an rng surprise inside. > > And like a black lion chest even if you dont get what you want you still get the crackerjacks just like with black lion chests how you get something from it either way, like black lion statues. > > I would argue that the candy is actual food and the prize is a physical object which has monetary value unlike the contents of the black lion chest. So why not regulate these? > > None of this answers my original question about your stance on existing regulations on addictive activities. If you don't want to answer it, you can just say so. Just remember that non-answers can also be answers in certain context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Research into how the brain is affected suggests otherwise. You are willfully misinformed. You either lack even basic understanding of how drugs and our brain works, or you are willfully misrepesenting these issues. No one is denying that there is difference of severity in addiction. But to put addiction off as ONLY being produced by XYZ is ludicrously idiotic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. You can make data and statistics prove anything. Parents need to watch their kids, I'm 100% convinced this is a religious moral argument about gambling and vice rather then based on sound logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I'm sure you are. Just like I'm a NASA astraunaut. > > > > > > > > > > I actually am but whatever lol. > > > > > > > > Nothing in this thread suggests you have even an elementary understanding of human psychology, the simplest workings of the brain or of social pressures and sturctures. > > > > > > > > Both your limited understading and hilarious bad comparisons of drugs and alcohol to gaming as well as constant harping on how parents need to watch their children suggest you have 0 knowledge of either field. > > > > > > > > But sure, maybe you are a psychologist, from 40 years ago and you decided to full stop on any psychology related subjects. > > > > > > Sorry you can get addicted to anything, let me guess you're not ok with any gambling of any form right? How do you feel about it for people over 21? > > > > Why the arbitrary age? You do realize that you are basically just picking the currently established legal age, in some countries, which also was not always present? Is there some significance to age 21? You do realize that the old, and to some extent reasoning behind using age 21 as basis for regulation, belief that a person is sufficiently devleloped by age 21 has been found wanting. As such age 21, from a psyochological standpoint is an arbitrary age point. > > > > I don't mind gambling at age 21 or above, I don't even mind gambling at all. > > > > My general stance is: I dislike any form of regulation when it is government imposed. > > > > But since I do not deal in black and white issues and realize there is a lot of nuance to things, I will question both the private and government sector, especially on issues where a lot of money is involved. When the private sector fails in self regualting itsself, government unfortunately needs to step in. This is getting muddier and muddier from year to year since the amount of data gathered and the possibilities for using this information to manipulate and direct other people's actions creates dangerous loopholes and opportunities. > > If you dont like regulation then why regulate this? And what regulations do you want. Are you also aware that regulations begin a slippery slope of precedence to outright banning an activity? Wow, how do you think any regulation was established or adjusted? Not being in favor of regulation is not the same as being deluded and against all type of regulation. If an activity is deemed worth banning, then it should get banned if there is enough facts to support such action. The gaming industry has enough money and Lobbyist payed to handle this, they don't need others shilling for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crossing the street is risky and contains elements of rng, it's also addictive in that people have a desire to get to the other side, repeatedly. Through mental conditioning people are lulled into a false sense of security for an activity that can be dangerous. Crossing the street has clearly become compulsive as people feel compelled to reach the other side and yet they engage in risky street crossing behavior despite the scientifically proven detrimental outcomes of this activity. Pretty much the same statement and argument you said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nuclear submarines move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can move in seawater. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I am a nuclear submarine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest you read a bit on logical fallacies and how to avoid them for a proper debate. It would surely help to construct a proper argument instead of whatever this is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They constantly use a classic straw man argument. In my opinion, it is useless to appeal to logic in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the very same tactic is used by lobbyists to prevent better regulation. I suspect that the game industry will use exactly the same strategy as Big Tobacco to keep the existing status quo for as long as possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how does that work, rng gambling from killing mobs is ok because you say so. But buying keys which also drop from mobs to open a chest that has random loot is not ok. Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop bringing up this nonsense strawman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mob you kill does not change depending on your player behavior. It does not get altered to fit certain molds and exploit certain patterns. If you could pay to get the mob loot and then pay for 10,000 mob loot at once, then it would be comaprable. Killing a mob requires actual interaction with the game (which is limited by time automatically). Spending money from your bank account to interact with game elements which were specifically designed to encourage you to spend money on them is a near instant process which can get expanded upon significantly (both due to limited use of time as well as built in scalability). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also this has been pointed out multiple times by now, GW2 lootboxes and mechanics are among the most industry harmless. This legislation is not made due to Arenanet or GW2. The main driving reasons are way more predatory publishers and mechanics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol and you're the sole decider of morality and where the line is drawn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right now, you are basically the person who is going: alcohol should not be restriced to any one. People who misuse it or have no control over themselves are at their own fault. Alcohol addiction is of no consequence and minors, who have no concept of what alcohol is, need no protection of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's literally you on this issue if your arguments were transfered to regulation of liquor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tha fact that UK MPs specifically mentioned that the gaming industry was basically dodging a proper inquery should have all types of red flags pop up as consumer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To actually address your issue with rng from mobs though: yes, that too is an issue, but this one falls in the sphere of gaming addiction. Something which also is seeing more and more research in the last few years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gaming addiction? All games are addictive and yet there are 0 warnings or regulations on hours played or the fact that they can be addictive, especially with mmos. Lol it's like you guys just pick and choose what to be offended by with 0 logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that legislation is lacking in one area does not justify it's lack in another area. I already pointed out that there is research being done into gaming addiction. The WHO has even officially defined gaming disorder: https://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So again, you are strawmaning. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's how precedence works. And I dont need any warnings that are that obvious like driving is dangerous eating food could be risky. It's like you guys want hand holding for every aspect of life because were all too naive to take responsibility for anything and we need rules and regulations of everything, in order to know how to do the most basic functions of life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your logic, things like alcohol, physical gambling, drugs should be eligible for minors too. The dangers from these are obvious too. Those regulations are "hand-holding" too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you please go on record on your opinion on this? I'm really interested in seeing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry gambling on pixels isnt on par with alchohol guns or drugs lol, not even close. Its about on par with say going to disneyland paying admission to go in, and then going into one of the stores, seeing something you like and then, crying murder because they overcharge for their products or its "predatory because they prey on children's expectations or desires" yet no laws for that nor is there a need its just capitalism. Maybe parents should learn to say no. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Research into how the brain is affected suggests otherwise. You are willfully misinformed. You either lack even basic understanding of how drugs and our brain works, or you are willfully misrepesenting these issues. No one is denying that there is difference of severity in addiction. But to put addiction off as ONLY being produced by XYZ is ludicrously idiotic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. You can make data and statistics prove anything. Parents need to watch their kids, I'm 100% convinced this is a religious moral argument about gambling and vice rather then based on sound logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I'm sure you are. Just like I'm a NASA astraunaut. > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually am but whatever lol. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing in this thread suggests you have even an elementary understanding of human psychology, the simplest workings of the brain or of social pressures and sturctures. > > > > > > > > > > Both your limited understading and hilarious bad comparisons of drugs and alcohol to gaming as well as constant harping on how parents need to watch their children suggest you have 0 knowledge of either field. > > > > > > > > > > But sure, maybe you are a psychologist, from 40 years ago and you decided to full stop on any psychology related subjects. > > > > > > > > Sorry you can get addicted to anything, let me guess you're not ok with any gambling of any form right? How do you feel about it for people over 21? > > > > > > Why the arbitrary age? You do realize that you are basically just picking the currently established legal age, in some countries, which also was not always present? Is there some significance to age 21? You do realize that the old, and to some extent reasoning behind using age 21 as basis for regulation, belief that a person is sufficiently devleloped by age 21 has been found wanting. As such age 21, from a psyochological standpoint is an arbitrary age point. > > > > > > I don't mind gambling at age 21 or above, I don't even mind gambling at all. > > > > > > My general stance is: I dislike any form of regulation when it is government imposed. > > > > > > But since I do not deal in black and white issues and realize there is a lot of nuance to things, I will question both the private and government sector, especially on issues where a lot of money is involved. When the private sector fails in self regualting itsself, government unfortunately needs to step in. This is getting muddier and muddier from year to year since the amount of data gathered and the possibilities for using this information to manipulate and direct other people's actions creates dangerous loopholes and opportunities. > > > > If you dont like regulation then why regulate this? And what regulations do you want. Are you also aware that regulations begin a slippery slope of precedence to outright banning an activity? > > Wow, how do you think any regulation was established or adjusted? > > Not being in favor of regulation is not the same as being deluded and against all type of regulation. > > If an activity is deemed worth banning, then it should get banned if there is enough facts to support such action. > > The gaming industry has enough money and Lobbyist payed to handle this, they don't need others shilling for them. Yah well games I enjoy playing got shut down in other countries because of this. I really dont feel like losing my account, playtime and enjoyment of a game because someone with religious morals decided that it wasnt good for me, as though I need to be supervised on a really benign activity that I enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. > > Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. > > So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > > > > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. > > > > Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. > > > > So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. > > Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all. It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > > > > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > > > > > > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. > > > > > > Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. > > > > > > So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. > > > > Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all. > > It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now. Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine, so far you've ignored every inquiry I've made to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > > > > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. > > > > Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. > > > > So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. > > Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all. And an evasion again. Why i am not surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > > > > > > > > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. > > > > > > > > Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. > > > > > > > > So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. > > > > > > Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all. > > > > It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now. > > Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing. Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide! _“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”_ And the relevant source : https://massivelyop.com/2019/08/05/uk-researcher-stomps-the-lockboxes-are-kinder-eggs-defense-into-paste/ Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. > > > > > > > > > > Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. > > > > > > > > > > So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. > > > > > > > > Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all. > > > > > > It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now. > > > > Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine > > Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing. > > Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide! > > _“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”_ > > And the relevant source : https://massivelyop.com/2019/08/05/uk-researcher-stomps-the-lockboxes-are-kinder-eggs-defense-into-paste/ > > Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn. Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox. In fact its worse, because the chocolate has value and the prize has value unlike the contents of a lootbox. alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people. Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexxxDelta.1806 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > Haha same argument I've seen over and over "research shows" it's all bs, sorry, I should know I'm a psychologist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you, then? If so, surely you can tell us what the issues with gambling are from a psychologist's perspective. And surely you wouldn't mind citing some of that research, since as a psychologist familiar with it you know just the articles you are referring to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not my job to educate you. Thanks. If you guys dont enjoy rng why play a rpg? Or play videogames at all, seems to me it's much too risky an activity for you and you dont seem to enjoy it anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please answer a simple question dear psychologist and I will consider myself educated if you do. It requires minimal effort on your part as a simple yes or no will suffice. I will even simplify it as much as I can. > > > > > > > > > > > > So let's assume a parent completely fails to monitor their kid properly, should that kid be **legally** able to buy alcohol from a store or gamble in a casino? Just your opinion on this. > > > > > > > > > > Here answer my question first, what is the difference between a lootbox and a breakfast cereal box with a random prize. If you can explain that I'd love to hear it and I'd love to hear why nobody is focusing on cereal at all. > > > > > > > > It is generally considered bad manners to answer a question with a question. It also shows one is very keen on avoiding an answer. It's just a simple yes or no, why the struggle? You 've been very candid with your stance so far, no reason to stop now. > > > > > > Nope not gonna answer till you answer mine > > > > Ok then. Let's substitute cereal with a chocolate egg, same thing. > > > > Here's your answer from, wait for it, a colleague of yours from the University of Adelaide! > > > > _“A Kinder Surprise Egg does not collect your data. The Kinder Egg does not learn more about the person buying and opening the Egg, such as his or her preferences for its contents. The Kinder Egg does not adjust its contents according to an algorithm based on population data. People do not link their credit cards to Kinder Egg vendors. Kinder Eggs are physical and can be given away or traded, unlike virtual items. It is difficult to spend thousands of dollars on Kinder Eggs. The transaction, user experience, and consequences are quite different.”_ > > > > And the relevant source : https://massivelyop.com/2019/08/05/uk-researcher-stomps-the-lockboxes-are-kinder-eggs-defense-into-paste/ > > > > Now please indulge me if you may. Your turn. > > Lmao what a load of tripe. Everything you just said is complete nonsense because a kinder egg is definently the same thing as a lootbox. > > Ok alchohol, not comparable to gambling or a lootbox. Do I think it should be regulated, yah because it inebriates people. > > Gambling in a casino, no they shouldn't be able to just walk in and gamble as you can gamble money to win more money. Now if it was a casino filled with kinder eggs, sure lol. They call it a grocery store. Like a kinder egg, videogames are just for entertainment. And you can't turn a profit or wager your lively hood and possibly get an equal return on it. Do I think we need to worry about the few children who gamble away on kinder eggs? No more then the same people who play mmos forever hoping a great drop comes their way from farming. You forgot about the liquor store doc. What about that? Even this half answer works for me but I just wanted to make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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