It's Time To Let Go of This Most Useless Character

[ScyeRynn.4218]

-Duplicate Post-

 

 

[ScyeRynn.4218]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> Hear me out a second:

> I felt like the drunk-dialing was actually sort of good writing.

>

> It let us know that Ryland was with Braham every step of the way. It let us know just how drunk he had gotten. It showed us Ryland encouraging him to drink. It showed us Ryland encouraging a fight. It told us the story of why Braham was in jail, rather than just having us be called to go get him. Which might not seem important to really know until later, when we realize that Ryland took his bow. The whole thing was a set up. But because people were so annoyed at the "omg Braham is drunk on the intercom" "omg Braham threw up and I am uncomfortable" they never stopped to think about how Ryland was behaving or what it might mean. It was information we needed later cleverly disguised as nothing more than a "lol this guy is drunk" gag.

 

The intention of Braham's drunk speech had multiple functions and connections. The issue isn't with all those specific things it accomplished. The issue is with one of those functions, which is to continually use Braham as comedy relief.

[Keriana.9635]

To me Braham is the Jar Jar Binks of GW2, completely annoying and useless, yet somehow in every episode/scene. Also, he takes money that could be used for other characters. For example, they said they had no budget for Canach for last season's final episode. Yet, somehow budget is never an issue with Braham, who goes on and on every episode.

[ScyeRynn.4218]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > @"Palador.2170" said:

> > > Let's be clear, I don't like Braham. For a long time, I've wanted him dropped from the story. And him getting drunk in the current story? Yeah, he pretty much ignored the reminder that he was representing our group there.

> > >

> > > But... he did have someone TRYING to get him drunk, so maybe that's not entirely his fault. And for the upcoming story, if we're going to learn something about the Spirits of the Wild, it may be best to have an immature norn with us. This way the player (and the commander, if need be) can learn about the spirits while Braham is getting lectured by wiser norn. It might give him a chance to grow up some, too.

> >

> > It's completely irrelevant who or what caused him to be drunk. The point is that it's being used as a way to further their agenda with Braham as a caricature and not a character. This placeholder journey with Braham has been going on with his character for a long time now and it's unfortunate to see a character that started with so much potential reduced to an empty gimmick.

>

> No they are furthering the agenda of the story.. or are you missing the fact he was being prompted to drink more, fight and.. loosing the heirloom of his family , to which end we do not yet know other than the leader of this Charr dragonhunt now holds it with the instigator apparent by his side.

> I think your trying to read far too much into the Braham character at this stage of what is just the prologue.

> I see this as a way for Braham to open up the Norn part of this story and for him to begin maturing into a more solid, focused member of the group, at least I hope for that.

> I think we get it, you don't like the character or the personality that has been written into him thus far, but your missing the point somewhat in that Braham at a young age has had to deal with some pretty tough stuff that even those of greater years and maturity would also find hard to deal with.. this may be his chance to grow as a player in this story, this game.

 

What I was calling "irrelevant" was the need to clarify Braham being drunk or who got him drunk in regards to what my thread is about. I know why Braham was drunk and what it accomplished for their plot. The point is about his slurred speech being intended for comedic intentions. You can have the same plot play out without the overuse of comedy through a character that has already had enough comedy forced on him, for the purpose of one of the agendas of the writers.

[thepenmonster.3621]

> @"Julia Nardin.9824" said:

> Braham's young, he's gregarious, he's still high on life after killing Kralkatorrik.

 

And his girlfriend left him to go live with some hippies on an island. Of course he'd hit the bottle pretty hard.

 

[ScyeRynn.4218]

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > > There are several things wrong with the OP's post. The first being that he claims to be talking bout everyone, while this is certainly not true. There are people who dislike Braham, but just as much as there are people disliking any other member of the living world story. (a good example would be Taime, whom is loved and hated at the same time.

> > >

> > > There is a lot of disliking in the post, but not where he would be bad or wrong. It is all about personal taste and has nothing to do with actual feedback about the writing. So any good reason to let him go is missing. (and yes there can be made good points about any character as they misfit someones personality and reacts to ones irritation, but that doesnt validate as a reason, im talking about feedback about the writing.)

> >

> > This is incorrect. The OP (also known as me) did not claim that "everybody" had the same opinion of Braham. Using words like "players" and "we" loosely and undefined is not claiming everyone. It could mean a majority of players, a large portion of players, or a small handful of players. And did you just assume my gender? :O There are far more than several things wrong with your post including incorrect claims, failed comprehension, assumptions, spelling and word usage, and an overall lack of anything relevant to the thread and its topic.

>

> No I did not assume your gender, OP as a term is genderless and addressed as a male, it is a common term and nothing personal.

> And you actually did claim to speak on behalf of more people then yourself, which in itself is bad reasoning to start with.

> You fail to adress the real issue, namely that you posts lacks constructive feedback and is given as a very coloured personal opinion with claims of being generic and not personal.

 

> _"There are several things wrong with the OP's post. The first being that he"_

 

> _genderless and addressed as a male_

 

"They" is the word used for the subject. Not he or she or creature. Genderless doesn't refer to "he" or a specific gender. That's kind of why it's called "gender-LESS"

 

It doesn't matter much to me. I just wanted to add it to the list of errors in your post, in the form of a current-day, politically-correct, "tongue-in-cheek " reference.

 

As I said, "we" and "players" could refer to any amount of multiple players. And I do speak for those that have the same opinion. Whether it's one other or a hundred others, what I mentioned never used the word "everybody". However, you did use that word, falsely trying to claim that it is what I claimed, and that is simply incorrect.

 

I mention more than myself, because that is the reality of it. Many players did and have found issue with Braham. It's necessary to address that, and certainly not bad reasoning.

 

It's not that difficult to read, use logic, and use factual information for your argument. Your post is an unfortunate mess, but you shouldn't have to use desperate falsities to make up for it.

 

To know what I've written, you have to actually read what I have written. I've pointed out the mishandling and erroneous choices in the writing of Braham's journey and the inauthenticity of his character. Most responses have already addressed the "real issue" and have given great perspective and ideas on the topic. Why haven't you?

 

Spend more time focusing on the topic and fixing that list of errors in your posts, then you might actually post something relevant to the thread. Or at the very least, create a passable post.

[Reverielle.3972]

> @"Brycar.2651" said:

> I like Braham and looking forward to his big story.

Likewise, and I'm glad to see some others do too.

 

I also read a lot of comments on Braham that make me think a lot of players just treat him as a 'human' both personality and culture-wise. But he's norn, a were-creature, and there are very big differences in both those areas. He has various classical norn-traits that many seem to take the wrong way, which is totally understandable when looking from a human perspective.

 

Maybe norn should have been visually made more different from just the 'big humans' so many see them as so many of these seemingly incorrect associations and assumptions about Braham (and by extension norn culture) don't happen. But really I guess the lore is already there regardless, so I suppose it doesn't really matter what they look like; those that take an interest in the culture already have, and those that haven't likely never will.

[ScyeRynn.4218]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> Didn't you see the presentation and reveal about the upcoming content... "Community favorites (characters) like Rytlock and ... BRAHAM"?

 

Oh gods... please don't remind me about that presentation.

[ScyeRynn.4218]

> @"thepenmonster.3621" said:

> > @"Julia Nardin.9824" said:

> > Braham's young, he's gregarious, he's still high on life after killing Kralkatorrik.

>

> And his girlfriend left him to go live with some hippies on an island. Of course he'd hit the bottle pretty hard.

>

 

This is one of the most silly things in Braham's journey that they came up with. Braham sets out to liberate Craigstead and rebuild it for these people including his love interest. But she leaves him because she doesn't think he's going anywhere in his life. He just saved your behind, rebuilt your village, and became a hero of Craigstead. Well, at least she found someone better... that fur-trader over there...

-_-

 

The most unfortunate part of this is that Braham still hasn't really made a name for himself, not because he couldn't, but because the writers decided against it. He's all "Ka-Braham" and "I have hair!" now.

 

[thepenmonster.3621]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> This is one of the most silly things in Braham's journey that they came up with. Braham sets out to liberate Craigstead and rebuild it for these people including his love interest. But she leaves him because she doesn't think he's going anywhere in his life.

 

We're both talking about Rox, right?

 

> The most unfortunate part of this is that Braham still hasn't really made a name for himself, not because he couldn't, but because the writers decided against it. He's all "Ka-Braham" and "I have hair!" now.

 

He was a teenager when we met him. And he's just 23 years old which is still a teen in most ways. Honestly, he should have been *more* resentful of the Commander all things considered. The Commander has the power of **Player Character** which means they're both good at everything and the center of the Eternal Alchemy. Braham is definitely deep in their shadow which is why I think "Why don't you call yourself Braham Toothchipper?" (IIRC) was a pretty important bit of dialog and I hope the devs follow through on it as the saga goes on.

 

Maybe they have a long game for him in mind to make him his own Norn. Or maybe someone upon high in the company said, "Norn sidekick!" Or maybe they can't afford John DiMaggio anymore and someone has to fill in Canach's role as the team comedian. Impossible to say at this point but I like the big lump and I hope they give him his happy ending at some point. (Unlike poor Koss.)

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > The character provokes emotions in people. That alone is enough of a reason to keep him.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was no fan of Braham, even less after his tantrum in LWS3. In hindsight I have to say, I get where the authors were coming from, and any one who has lost someone close they loved might too. Was it narratively given enough room? Maybe not.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as Brahams bumbling and drunkeness this epilogue, all I have to ask people who gelt embarassed: have you been sober around drunk people?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ask yourself, were you embarassed due to the acting and writing, or because Braham in character and context of the world was embarassing your squad? The second case would mean the authors got it right.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually, it's not. Having a character around solely for "evoking emotions" is the equivalent of a caricature or stock character and that is exactly the kind of one-dimenstional character a proper story does NOT need, unless it's not meant to be taken seriously.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Well I disagree and given how one of your other points was that Braham was rewritten multiple times, I fail to see how he can be one dimensional.

> > > >

> > > > Is he comedic relief in this prologue? Sure, while staying in character and lore. He is a Norn which like to boast and drink. He was celebrating a recebt victory. He has slowly overcome his issues of loss.

> > > >

> > > > You might not like the character, maybe because drunk people annoy you, as you mentioned. But from a writing perspective Braham has seen more developement than most other characters and given the direction of the story, he is fitting to be represented.

> > > >

> > >

> > > A proper character would never need to be rewritten. Characters go through arcs, journeys, and development, but they should never be rewritten. That's like giving Taimi Rytlocks gruff personality or making Faren the Commander. It's only funny when it's not taken seriously or a lasting change in the story. Rewriting a character is not the same as proper character development.

> > >

> > > _"You might not like the character, maybe because drunk people annoy you, as you mentioned."_

> > >

> > > Did I? Where did I mention that?

> > >

> > > Sounds more like you felt personally offended by your own assumption.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Nope, merely me mixing up two different replies. My bad.

> >

> > On everything else: that's your subjective opinion and obviously other players feel differently on this matter.

> >

> > You are ofcorse free to rant and complain as much as you want. The story and production of content is far along further than what we as players see, often as far as 1 year in advance for recording of voice lines. As such, the realization of your desire is pretty much 0, so the point of implementation is moot.

>

> This post is an absolute mess.

 

I'll make it simple:

The voice and dialogue is recorded, the general plot is writen. You are barking up the wrong tree.

 

That is completely ignoring that obviously not all players feel the same as you about Braham.

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"Keriana.9635" said:

> To me Braham is the Jar Jar Binks of GW2, completely annoying and useless, yet somehow in every episode/scene. Also, he takes money that could be used for other characters. For example, they said they had no budget for Canach for last season's final episode. Yet, somehow budget is never an issue with Braham, who goes on and on every episode.

 

That's because self-destructive, emo drunks with mother issues are supposed to somehow be relatable to the audience. Nobody cares about the vegetables because they're too alien. Moreover, it also doesn't garner much inclusiveness cred over social media to say, " Hey everybody! Look what we did! We prominently featured a vegetable "person" in this chapter of the story! See!? This game's totally for everyone!"

 

Just doesn't work. Nobody cares. I mean hey, Sylvari were experimented on by the Asura, tortured actually... They were corrupted over the course of a living world chapter and an expansion by an elder plant dragon and nobody gives a toss because Faery Sue, the flying deus ex machina, farted rainbows all over everything at the end of the last chapter.

[Dante.1508]

Braham the most boring character in the universe.

[KidRoleplay.3615]

> @"Dante.1508" said:

> Braham the most boring character in the universe.

 

Have we forgotten Trahearne already, or are you only counting current characters?

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > I think that just because a character creates tension or rubs people the wrong way, it doesn't mean they need to be gotten rid of.

> > >

> > > That's not what is being said here. Braham being conflicting isn't the problem. There are many characters in the story that conflict with the Commander and the missions and the other characters. It's about the execution and arc of Braham. It's about how Braham isn't being developed in a way that is authentic, significant, or necessary to the story other than as a way to redeem him.

> > >

> > > They "180'd" his character at least two times already, more than any other character because he is not a true character. He's a playing card meant to serve a purpose. Whether it's to be an ally who conflicts with the commander or the comedic relief. He's currently serving as the caricature sidekick just for forced-humor. He adds nothing significant or essential to the actual story.

> > >

> > > Saying "oh but he has been by the commander's side for many episodes!" is missing the fact that he was placed there recently and purposefully to put that idea in your head that Braham is now essential and not the annoying, useless, complaining character he was just prior. It's to make up for that. But they didn't even do that right. They decided to force down our throats that he's also now suddenly a highly comedic, buddy-buddy partner for the Commander.

> > >

> > > He may become useful in the Norn part of the upcoming story, but that should have been his story thus far. Instead everything till now has been filler or unnecessary conflict that went no where.

> > >

> > > Braham used to be a rising hero and an interesting character. He wasn't a whiny brat or a clown when we were first introduced to him. Then the commander took over much of the journey they had planned for him and instead of giving him a proper journey of his own, they decided to make him the tag-along group member with a grudge.

> > >

> >

> > Wow slow down... remember this is a fantasy world and meant to have multi facets in its story telling, which in turn provide opportunities to branch or switch up all whilst creating the opportunity for players to explore them, cuss them or love them... there is no actual right or wrong except from your own personal viewpoint.

> > Don't get me wrong I am not a Braham fanboi either as I've already said, but your not the voice of LS or do you have some sixth sense that can tell us what is in store for the character or any character cos from where I am sitting I can see the IBS being reasonably meaningful in context when considering both Braham and Rytlock, I also feel Rox could of had an uptick in character here as well but well it doesn't look like it.

> >

> > " It's about how Braham isn't being developed in a way that is authentic, significant, or necessary to the story other than as a way to redeem him. "

> > I will be honest here and say I find this a little strange considering he is just one cog in a larger machine.. also consider the depth the narrative team are able to go to in the time and cost constraints they have upon them. I would hazard a guess they could of, would of, should of expanded Braham and other character so much more every chapter and likely did, but there will always be a need to edit out, shorten and change directions in an effort to get it all ready in time for the big reveals..

> > Hopefully its not a sprint for this character or any of them, its a marathon

>

> Multi-facets doesn't mean you choose multi-ranges of quality. That is just silly. You strive for the best quality you can achieve within the parameters you have or you concede that it's lesser than what it could and/or should be.

>

> If Anet had the Predator alien from AVP suddenly appear from the skies and kill your character without any explanation and then have that change the entire course of your story, would you consider that right or wrong in the context of quality and natural story progression? There are clear right and wrongs in storytelling principles. That "Predator" scenario would be hilarious, but it would be wrong in this story. Braham going from William Wallace in Braveheart to Hayden Christensen's Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars to Tom Holland's Spiderman is not only unfunny, it's also wrong in terms of natural, fitting story-telling progression.

>

> All those constraints do not equate to poor-quality writing being necessary. That just sounds like an unconnected excuse. In those same constraints, they could have written more suitable, interesting, and authentic scenes with Braham.

>

 

Except ANET haven't done any of that. They have simply allowed a character with obvious flawes to begin to mature and in doing so they are using both his flawes and some of his racial stereotype to aid in the progression of the wider story.

This is not about Braham remember its about a scheming Warmonger who is seeking Charr dominance and as far as we can tell he needed to get the bow from Braham, to which end we dot know as yet.

This is not some book that a writer takes many years to piece together this is fantasy writing by a range of writers over a much shorter time period, it is never going to a Tolkien or CS Lewis fantasy masterpiece where each connection has years of research and deliberations.

Look we get it, you see yourself as an expert writer but your forgetting that quality of this story is very much subjective, if it is not up to your high standards then that is something only you can deal with.

I would hazard a guess that many lesser folk like myself don't feel the need to nit pick to such a fine degree of detail, we just try to enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Arden.7480]

Eir was just the same idiot as Braham is, but not because they have idiot personality, just they both are Norn... (read Edge of Destiny)

 

Many of you have forgotten what NORN means.

 

Norn are foolish, reckless and get drunk, but also they follow their instincts that lead them to wisdom, they are strong and know what they need, they follow their heart, but sometimes not use brain.

 

Braham is simply as perfect Norn as Eir.

 

 

 

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"Arden.7480" said:

> Eir was just the same idiot as Braham is, but not because they have idiot personality, just they both are Norn... (read Edge of Destiny)

>

> Many of you have forgotten what NORN means.

>

> Norn are foolish, reckless and get drunk, but also they follow their instincts that lead them to wisdom, they are strong and know what they need, they follow their heart, but sometimes not use brain.

>

> Braham is simply as perfect Norn as Eir.

 

Except for the part where they made her completely go against character and roll over at the end because the writers decided to just get rid of her.

 

 

It doesn't come more contrived than that and it was a terrible trade off losing Eir and having to take on Braham in her place. Seriously- way to make everybody else there just stand and gawp, shoehorning characters into deviating from regular behaviour in order to advance a terrible plot for the sake of bathos. You see it written all over her face- "Okay... It's time. I have to be bad at what I do now 'cause reasons."

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > @"Brycar.2651" said:

> > I like Braham and looking forward to his big story.

> Likewise, and I'm glad to see some others do too.

>

> I also read a lot of comments on Braham that make me think a lot of players just treat him as a 'human' both personality and culture-wise. But he's norn, a were-creature, and there are very big differences in both those areas. He has various classical norn-traits that many seem to take the wrong way, which is totally understandable when looking from a human perspective.

Actually, for me it's exactly the opposite. What i find problematic is him acting like a human (and a pathetic one, to boot), not a Norn. I mean, i know that the epic Norn of GW1 were already changed into gw2 into caricatures, coming off as more funny and comedic than serious, dangerous and heroic, but Braham takes that way, way too far. First, he was a whiney kid (granted, he had reasons, but still, he _was_ a whiney kid). Now, he's the Jar Jar of this story, and, like with JarJar, for the most part the comedy revolves around the story showing us how more pathtic can he get. All those norn traits you speak of? He has _none_.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > @"Brycar.2651" said:

> > > I like Braham and looking forward to his big story.

> > Likewise, and I'm glad to see some others do too.

> >

> > I also read a lot of comments on Braham that make me think a lot of players just treat him as a 'human' both personality and culture-wise. But he's norn, a were-creature, and there are very big differences in both those areas. He has various classical norn-traits that many seem to take the wrong way, which is totally understandable when looking from a human perspective.

> Actually, for me it's exactly the opposite. What i find problematic is him acting like a human (and a pathetic one, to boot), not a Norn. I mean, i know that the epic Norn of GW1 were already changed into gw2 into caricatures, coming off as more funny and comedic than serious, dangerous and heroic, but Braham takes that way, way too far. First, he was a whiney kid (granted, he had reasons, but still, he _was_ a whiney kid). Now, he's the Jar Jar of this story, and, like with JarJar, for the most part the comedy revolves around the story showing us how more pathtic can he get. All those norn traits you speak of? He has _none_.

 

I think what your trying to put out here is kind inherent to most of us at some point or another.. from a whiney kid to the extrovert to the wise old man/woman trying to pass on all those years of experience back down to the next generation - kind of what growing up is about and finally seeing it go full circle.

I see some of myself and more importantly, some of my own children in some of the story telling here..

My kids from a very early age suffered the loss of their mother and I have seen them struggle with coming to terms with that as they have neared adulthood. There emotions, their actions, and their reactions have all undergone intense changes, like any youngling does and now as they near the end of their teen years they are beginning to find their own way and understanding that its ok to let your hair down once in awhile, but they are also beginning to grasp the fact there are somethings in life that require them to be more mature, more responsible and to think things through... has Braham reached that stage yet.. maybe, maybe not but he was young, full of racial pride yet not able to understand why or what or how to act on his emotions. Perhaps this is the beginning of Braham finally breaking those shackles and becoming the hero of his people, much like his parents were before him.

But then again there is also a wider story arc at play here and as yet we do not know the extent of Brahams or any of the other players roles in this Saga.

 

As I said previous.. the story is not perfect, but what is perfect in a story where millions of people can offer their own subjectivity against the quality of its writing - I mean we each are able to critique it against our own set of values, principles and emotive conjurations, we don't all have to be of the same opinions so some of us will like how these kinds of things play out in the story and some obviously will not.

Again I have disliked Braham as a character in this whole story thus far and am willing to accept that he isn't my cup of tea, but at the same time I accept he has had / will continue to have a part to play in developing the story further (or maybe his time is coming, who knows)

[SnowMochi.7602]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> It's clear that Anet is unable to let go of their obsession with Braham. The most unlikable, useless character in their story and after years of players asking to get rid of him and stop wasting time and development on him what do they do? **They devote and waste even more on him.**

 

Agreed. Braham should go - he should have been given his walking papers a long time ago.

But yes, their reaction to our request is yet another example of passive-aggressive behaviour.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"ScyeRynn.4218" said:

> > > > @"Palador.2170" said:

> > > > Let's be clear, I don't like Braham. For a long time, I've wanted him dropped from the story. And him getting drunk in the current story? Yeah, he pretty much ignored the reminder that he was representing our group there.

> > > >

> > > > But... he did have someone TRYING to get him drunk, so maybe that's not entirely his fault. And for the upcoming story, if we're going to learn something about the Spirits of the Wild, it may be best to have an immature norn with us. This way the player (and the commander, if need be) can learn about the spirits while Braham is getting lectured by wiser norn. It might give him a chance to grow up some, too.

> > >

> > > It's completely irrelevant who or what caused him to be drunk. The point is that it's being used as a way to further their agenda with Braham as a caricature and not a character. This placeholder journey with Braham has been going on with his character for a long time now and it's unfortunate to see a character that started with so much potential reduced to an empty gimmick.

> >

> > No they are furthering the agenda of the story.. or are you missing the fact he was being prompted to drink more, fight and.. loosing the heirloom of his family , to which end we do not yet know other than the leader of this Charr dragonhunt now holds it with the instigator apparent by his side.

> > I think your trying to read far too much into the Braham character at this stage of what is just the prologue.

> > I see this as a way for Braham to open up the Norn part of this story and for him to begin maturing into a more solid, focused member of the group, at least I hope for that.

> > I think we get it, you don't like the character or the personality that has been written into him thus far, but your missing the point somewhat in that Braham at a young age has had to deal with some pretty tough stuff that even those of greater years and maturity would also find hard to deal with.. this may be his chance to grow as a player in this story, this game.

>

> What I was calling "irrelevant" was the need to clarify Braham being drunk or who got him drunk in regards to what my thread is about. I know why Braham was drunk and what it accomplished for their plot. The point is about his slurred speech being intended for comedic intentions. You can have the same plot play out without the overuse of comedy through a character that has already had enough comedy forced on him, for the purpose of one of the agendas of the writers.

 

Have you ever been drunk or tried to converse with someone that is.. it can be kind of funny at times, but it can also be quite a powerful truth serum I guess for many of us.

I mean less we forget this was a celebration and some take that as a green light to let their hair down and have some fun, drink too much eat the pantry out of food and yeah do stupid things.. I know a few adults who have done that more times than I can throw a stick at. Add to that Norn are kind of stereotyped into that big brawling moot lovers, equally at home with an oversized weapon in their hand and talking tough or having a Steiner of ale fixed to their mouths slurring dumb talk to whoever about whatever.. but yes it was used to further the narrative of the wider story arc that is at play.

So I still do not see why you have such a problem with it, what is the harm, it served a purpose and I think it was executed reasonably well and for me at least it finally made me feel Braham might just be redeemable as a character.

Try to enjoy (or not) the story and its writings for what it actually is, not what you think it should be from your own self perceived expertise.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > > @"Brycar.2651" said:

> > > > I like Braham and looking forward to his big story.

> > > Likewise, and I'm glad to see some others do too.

> > >

> > > I also read a lot of comments on Braham that make me think a lot of players just treat him as a 'human' both personality and culture-wise. But he's norn, a were-creature, and there are very big differences in both those areas. He has various classical norn-traits that many seem to take the wrong way, which is totally understandable when looking from a human perspective.

> > Actually, for me it's exactly the opposite. What i find problematic is him acting like a human (and a pathetic one, to boot), not a Norn. I mean, i know that the epic Norn of GW1 were already changed into gw2 into caricatures, coming off as more funny and comedic than serious, dangerous and heroic, but Braham takes that way, way too far. First, he was a whiney kid (granted, he had reasons, but still, he _was_ a whiney kid). Now, he's the Jar Jar of this story, and, like with JarJar, for the most part the comedy revolves around the story showing us how more pathtic can he get. All those norn traits you speak of? He has _none_.

>

> I think what your trying to put out here is kind inherent to most of us at some point or another.. from a whiney kid to the extrovert to the wise old man/woman trying to pass on all those years of experience back down to the next generation - kind of what growing up is about and finally seeing it go full circle.

Again, you are thinking _human_ here. He is _Norn_ however. Do you want an example of another Norn in very similar situation (young age, tragedy and family loss)? It's **Jora** (Yes, she was also barely into adulthood when Svanir fell under Drakkar's influence). Compare her to Braham, and perhaps you will understand what my problem with him is.

 

 

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > > > > @"Brycar.2651" said:

> > > > > I like Braham and looking forward to his big story.

> > > > Likewise, and I'm glad to see some others do too.

> > > >

> > > > I also read a lot of comments on Braham that make me think a lot of players just treat him as a 'human' both personality and culture-wise. But he's norn, a were-creature, and there are very big differences in both those areas. He has various classical norn-traits that many seem to take the wrong way, which is totally understandable when looking from a human perspective.

> > > Actually, for me it's exactly the opposite. What i find problematic is him acting like a human (and a pathetic one, to boot), not a Norn. I mean, i know that the epic Norn of GW1 were already changed into gw2 into caricatures, coming off as more funny and comedic than serious, dangerous and heroic, but Braham takes that way, way too far. First, he was a whiney kid (granted, he had reasons, but still, he _was_ a whiney kid). Now, he's the Jar Jar of this story, and, like with JarJar, for the most part the comedy revolves around the story showing us how more pathtic can he get. All those norn traits you speak of? He has _none_.

> >

> > I think what your trying to put out here is kind inherent to most of us at some point or another.. from a whiney kid to the extrovert to the wise old man/woman trying to pass on all those years of experience back down to the next generation - kind of what growing up is about and finally seeing it go full circle.

> Again, you are thinking _human_ here. He is _Norn_ however. Do you want an example of another Norn in very similar situation (young age, tragedy and family loss)? It's **Jora** (Yes, she was also barely into adulthood when Svanir fell under Drakkar's influence). Compare her to Braham, and perhaps you will understand what my problem with him is.

>

>

There is nothing to understand, there is no right or wrong, it is nothing to do with thinking as a human other than I am one (at least me ole ma said so).. it is just another example of people being different in how they handle things, how they progress or digress.. why should they be written to act the same way when in real life that doesn't happen, no matter what race, sex, colour or creed you are.

Just because he is Norn doesn't mean anything other than there are some very stereotypical things we associate with that race and they kinda used them in this particular piece of the story arc to help further its narrative.

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> There is nothing to understand, there is no right or wrong, it is nothing to do with thinking as a human other than I am one (at least me ole ma said so).. it is just another example of people being different in how they handle things, how they progress or digress.. why should they be written to act the same way when in real life that doesn't happen, no matter what race, sex, colour or creed you are.

> Just because he is Norn doesn't mean anything other than there are some very stereotypical things we associate with that race and they kinda used them in this particular piece of the story arc to help further its narrative.

Sigh...

That's one of my points - if there are any stereotypes we associate with Norns, Anet _didn't_ use them with Braham. In order to "help further the arc's narrative", they tried to make Braham as far from being Norn as it is possible. Well, they did use _one_ stereotype - "norns like to drink" - but it was used only in an extremely negative way.

 

There's a reason why from the very first moment he appeared in GW2, back in LS1, people were asking if Borje the Sun Chaser is really his father, and whether he is half-human by any chance (no matter how much Anet kept insisting that mixed race children simply do not exist).

 

[Ben K.6238]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > I'll agree with the first five words of the topic: it is, indeed, time to let go.

> >

> > He's hardly the worst thing that GW2 has ever done, so I can only see this as an irrational dislike of Braham. Fortunately, there's plenty of other games out there without him.

>

> The fact that you can only see something one way does not mean that others are being irrational.

 

Hehe.

 

That's not a fact. Come to join in the irrationality, I suppose?