*Suggestion* Next Elite Specialization: Shadow Stalker - Greatsword Thief

[Amasoful.2690]

**Spec Name: Shadow Stalker** _(or suggest what you feel like it fits!)_

**Weapon: Greatsword** _(GS)_

**Spec Flavor:** Embracing Shadow Magics to enhance his combat prowess, coupled with fast movement, Shadowsteps and Heavy CC to stalk its prey, the victim has no chance of escaping its imminent doom, specially when the Shadow Stalker deals devastating damage with shadow-infused blows.

**Spec Role:** Heavy Melee (Cleave) Damage Dealer, Heavy CC, can support through vulnerability stacking.

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**Abbreviations & Shortcuts:**

-Greatsword: GS

-Shadow Charges (read initiative): SC

-Shadow Infusion or the Greatsword Skills Charging Mechanic: SI or Infusion

-Shadow Stalker: Stalker

-Specialization: Spec

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**Specialization Mechanics:**

 

* Meditation Skills & **Shadow Infusion (Charging)** Mechanic on the First Minor Trait as unlocking the Spec.

_(The Shadow Infusion Or charging mechanic will be referred to as SI or Infusion for simplicity)_

* High Critical chance and low base power baseline, SI buffs power &/or critical damage by a considerable amount.

* Initiative is renamed to Shadow Charges, same functionality with other weaponsets but with GS it is used to infuse its skills.

_(Shadow Charges or Initiative will be referred to as SC for simplicity)_

* GS Skills have base cost of SC and can be infused with more SC by holding down the GS skill longer for more damage, moreover, a CC effect is added if SI reaches cap (Fully Infused), SC consumed is not refunded if the infusion is cancelled/interrupted, upon releasing the key the GS skill executes, this allows players to pre-infuse a hit before reaching your target and unleashing it at the right moment, you can infuse GS skills while moving, Movement speed is increased by 25% during SI through a minor trait.

* F1 Steal is changed to **"Overcharge"**: Increasing the cap of SC that can be infused into the GS skills.

* Utility Skills can be pressed once for a single charge, or twice for 2 charges or thrice for 3, consuming utility ammunition charges.

_(May have delay between key presses or not, depending on Dev insight and balance)_

* F Skills to be added to fire the utility skills after being charged up.

* You can only either infuse a GS Skill or charge a Utility Skill at any given time, but you can fire the utility skill while infusing a GS skill.

 

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**Greatsword Skills:** (Suggestions are welcome too!)

 

* **Skill 0 (Stealth skill): Shadow Thrust:** Hit your target once, Damage increases with charging, if fully infused you knockdown your target.

* **Skill 1: Great Slash:** Cleave the area in front of you, SI increases damage, if fully infused you inflict additional damage.

* **Skill 2 Shadow Leap:** Evade while leaping at your target dealing damage, SI increases damage , if fully infused range is increased & you inflict cripple.

* **Skill 3: Shadow Assault:** (AoE on your current location in a circle) Meld with shadows evading attacks, showing up with an attack at your current location then evading again, repeats 3 times, SI increases damage, if fully infused you hit an additional time with an uppercut slash sending targets at your location flying upwards.

_(Same concept as underwater spear #5 skill)_

* **Skill 4: Shadowy Hacks:** Summon 2 shadowy GS to hack at your target from the sides, SI increases damage & range, if fully infused a third GS pins your target inflicting Immobilize.

* **Skill 5: Shadow Swipe:** Summon a huge shadow GS to swipe the area infront of you in a cone dealing AoE damage, SI increases damage, if fully infused AoE is bigger & foes are knocked back.

 

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**Utilities: Meditations - Charge skills,** charge them for super-charged effects.

 

* **-F1 Steal is changed to "Overcharge"**: Shadowstep to target and increase the cap of SC that can be fed into GS skills, no skills/items stolen from target.**

-Same CD and range as Steal. _(Maybe CD can be a bit longer and range can be a bit less if too OP)_

-Doesn't require a target and can be fired anyway.

-For traits that affect steal, they will affect Overcharge as well, like damage component of mug and the daze can still be applied if there is a target, or wasted if no target is selected.

 

* **-Healing Utility:**

-3 ammunition charges.

-Ammunition Recharge: Up to the Devs.

-1 Condition cleanse.

-Gives a Buff; Next hit is Unblockable, but dodgeable and can be invulned, next hit Siphons X amount of health from target.

-Charging consumes the healing utility ammunition charges for more effects; (1/2.67/4 X) Siphoning.

-Buff lost if hit fails to land.

-F2 fires the healing skill initiating the buff.

_-Condition cleanse is Normalized at 1 for all charging levels, to provide some sort of trade-off for charging, more healing & less condition cleanse and a risk of the healing being dependent on 1 hit landing VS More cleansing with small heals and requiring more hits to land successfully._

 

* **-Utility 1:**

-3 ammunition charges.

-Ammunition Recharge: Up to the Devs.

-Gives a buff; Next hit is Unblockable, but dodgeable/can be invulned, Grants X additional power **&/or** Ferocity on next hit, next hit has 100& crit chance & inflicts vulnerability.

-Charging consumes the utility skill ammunition charges for more effects; (1/2.67/4 X) Coefficient + vulnerability stacks increased per charge (6/12/18) same Duration for all charge levels.

-Has no Damage component, it buffs your next hit only.

-Buff lost if hit fails to land.

-F3 fires the utility skill initiating the buff.

_-Up to the Devs if the Vulnerability is applied before the increased coefficient i.e before the hit lands so it buffs that hit or after it)_

_-The idea here is to give a choice if you want sustained damage or burst damage using this skill._

 

* **-Utility 2:**

-3 ammunition charges.

-Ammunition Recharge: Up to the Devs.

-Gives a buff; Next hit is Unblockable, but dodgeable/can be invulned., next hit Inflicts X additional damage along with Immobilize, Slow & Weakness for Y seconds.

-Charging consumes the utility skill ammunition charges for more effects; (1/2.67/4 X Damage, 1/2.67/4 Y seconds condition duration)

-Buff lost if hit fails to land.

-F4 fires the utility skill initiating the buff.

_This utility is meant to be used both offensively and defensively._

 

* **-Utility 3 Shadowstalk:**

-3 ammunition charges.

-Ammunition Recharge: Up to the Devs.

-Shadowstep to location **or** to target, inflicts X seconds duration of Slow on landing (either AoE slow or to target only).

-Charging consumes the utility skill ammunition charges for more effects; (300/800/1200 Range) inflicting (1/2/3 X) Seconds duration of slow.

-F5 fires the utility skill initiating the Shadowstep.

_-The idea here to either quickly teleport short distances to avoid being kited or to be used as a gap closer by fully charging it._

 

* **-Elite: "Shadow Image":** Channel Shadow magic to have your "shadow" replicate your attacks a second time.

-Duration X seconds.

-75+ seconds CD.

-Stun break.

-Gives Buff: Your attacks are replicated by your shadow for X seconds and grants pulsing stability for its duration.

-Attacks by your shadow have 1/4 or 1/2 second delay, they only do the damage component with the charging modifier, utilities and full charge CC are not incorporated into the shadow's attacks, but the effect of overcharged is addedd into it.

-The shadow is not a separate entity roaming next to you in the world but rather more of a cool shadow effect tied to you that attacks a second time.

-No F button attached to the elite as it is just a flat DPS buff and doesn't need to be a charged utility skill.

_-Up to the Devs to convert it to a chargeable skill as well with an F button to fire it creating burst windows as needed, i just find it counter intuitive as it will bloat the amount of buttons that have to be pressed with having 6 F skills, but still it keeps homogeneity in the utilities, with the charges increasing the duration of the buff._

 

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**Traits:**

 

* **Minor Traits:**

-Adept: Meditation skills & SI Unlocked.

-Master: 25% Increased Movement Speed while infusing a GS Skill.

-Grandmaster: SC Regeneration Increased.

 

* **Trait line 1 Theme:** DPS Buffing

-Adept: Stalked: Fully infused GS skills inflict additional Vulnerability. _(2 stacks of 5 seconds, or whatever fits)_

-Master: Supercharged: Your Overcharge now adds 1 free SC worth of damage if the GS skill is fully infused.

-Grandmaster: Successful Meditation landing hits grant 1 SC per utility ammunition charge.

 

* **Trait line 2 Theme:** CC Buffing

-Adept: Shadows' Embrace: Successful Meditation landing hits from Stealth inflict blindness, Meditations CD reduced.

-Master Stalker's Embrace: Overcharge removes movement impairing conditions and all hard CC that you inflict removes 1 boon for it's duration .

-Grandmaster: Stalked to Death: Successful Meditation landing hits inflict 1 second of Chill **&/or** Slow per utility ammunition charge.

 

* **Trait line 3 Theme:** Survivability Buffing

-Adept: Agile Stalker: Dodging while infusing a GS skill grants vigor and swiftness, 1 second per SC "wasted". _(Can be normalized to 3 seconds with ICD if too OP)_

-Master: Stalker's Will: Overcharge breaks stun and grants stability. _(can be pulsing stability for its duration if not too OP)_

-Grandmaster: Stalker's Relief: Successful Meditation landing hits Cleanse 1 condition per utility ammunition charge.

 

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* **Pros:**

-Devastating blows utilizing the Shadow Infusion mechanic which allows for interesting choices between do i charge my next hit or not, charge fully or not!?

-New way of management initiative as well as a different approach to the utility skill ammunition system.

-High Risk High Reward gameplay.

-Baseline Heavy CC & Defiance bar breaking and can trait for boon stripping as well.

-Can support offensively with vulnerability stacking.

-Can not be easily kited.

 

* **Cons:**

-Low survivability.

-Below average output without SI.

-Other weaponsets won't be viable for DPS as they won't utilize the SI mechanic.

-Ranged Condition/Direct Damage as well as Melee Condition damage and general support roles are not viable options with this spec, it is a strict Melee Damage Dealer, unless the Devs find a way out of it through traits maybe?

-Can be countered heavily by specs with lots of interrupts like any -/P Thief, Scrapper etc.

 

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* **Design Challenges:**

-The Devs might have to compromise on the penalty the other weaponsets get for not utilizing SI in order to be able to use them, otherwise, only SB will be used for mobility, which isn't necessarily bad, but it's nice to have different options.

-It is supposed to be a heavy damage dealer with focus on CC, but CC might be abit too much and might need to be toned down a bit.

-The specialization is not about stealth, it is about shadow magics enhancing the powers of the thief.

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_Feel free to suggest any improvements to the spec, as long as it revolves around the basic ideas suggested here which are Greatsword weapon and the Shadow infusion charging mechanic!_

_If you find the name not fitting suggest one! Don't take the spec name to heart please it is only a fun speculation!_

[Ohoni.6057]

I'm not a fan of Greatsword as a thief weapon. I know it's that whole "it's not what you would expect from a Thief" thing going for it, like D&D GS Rogues, but it just seems silly.

[Amasoful.2690]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> I'm not a fan of Greatsword as a thief weapon. I know it's that whole "it's not what you would expect from a Thief" thing going for it, like D&D GS Rogues, but it just seems silly.

 

To each his own c:

I find it very appealing, as having twilight finally on my Shadow Stalker!

If this is ever implemented in game oneday, i'd be super happy, the spec gives this feeling of being a badass, giving up a part of yourself and dabbling in shadow magics a bit too far that it darkens your soul and it shows on your dark face, you are never the same thief you once were before!

[Faaris.8013]

I think Greatsword fits the thief profession lore-wise and in a visual sense. I mean, who would not like to see our thief sneak upon an enemy and stab it with a greatsword? It's also the preferred weapon for thief/assassin classes in other games as far as I know. It could be a "Great Dagger", like there is a Great Saw:

 

 

Just like the chainsaw, a greatsword goes well with stealth and trenchcoats, so I would welcome this new elite.

[tongpo.3184]

2nd post for a GS Thief... honestly, I just don't see it. Why would a thief be walking around with a giant sword? Its big, its messy, and a bit clumsy. I just can't see it. Off-hand sword is still the way to be IMO.

 

As for the spec itself... just looking at the logistics... standard thief is basically a "shadow stalker" already, so besides for the giant sword and changing the way f1 works, nothing really stands out because:

 

>Heavy Melee (Cleave) Damage Dealer, Heavy CC, can support through vulnerability stacking

 

D/P does all of this already though dagger is a dps cleave, but staff provides all of this plus a bigger aoe with vault. In the end, this is another melee dps spec for which we just received a sniper rifle as a ranged dps role. Basically my point being, we don't need 4 pure dps specs - because staff is melee power, d/d condi or power, rifle ranged power - and this I suppose would be melee power again. If this game does get into a 3rd expansion, I am hoping for a more defensive/support role. Something that gives group evade, movement speed, or perhap something different like endurance recovery.

 

What your suggestion I think does overall is that it becomes a power creep to Staff or dagger builds which is not the point of a espec. Especs are suppose to offer a different way to play the class, not be better than what is available. If if this doesn't end up being better than staff or dd, but stays on par, than it doesn't really accomplish anything besides for giving thief a new weapon.

[JVJD.4912]

I rather they discontinue the elite specialization and give us new weapon like Great Axe, books, fist's, chakram etc

[tongpo.3184]

> @JVJD.4912 said:

> I rather they discontinue the elite specialization and give us new weapon like Great Axe, books, fist's, chakram etc

 

Why can't they do both? The weapon they grant access to from the espec aren't always the best weapons for the spec anyways: like staff isn't that great anymore for druids, axe isn't necessarily the best weapon for firebrand, pistol is better than rifle for deadeye, GS isn't necessarily the best for reaper, torch berserker wasn't really played until they nerfed the hell out of power zerker, Longbow is only good in pvp, but not good for pve DH... etc. The weapon from espec are not the end all be all weapon for the spec.

 

Though I think most people want the new weapon to be best for the espec, it hasn't been the case. So really, there is no problem with new weapons being added along side new especs. You use what is best for your build anyways.

 

The only issue I think becomes that the old specs will not have direct synergy with the new weapon, but if the weapon is good for the build, it should be rather minor.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

I like the idea. It's better then stupid staff where you beat the enemy to death using concussive blows. At least with the GS, you can actually cut them and do some damage.

[babazhook.6805]

Personally I prefer another one handed wapon. The last two have been two handers. I would really like to see more variety in the One handed builds so we could see sword off hand, or mace dagger mace pistol pistol sword. Get a bunch more dual wield skills at number 3 and shake up every weapon set that currently exists with more variety.

[paShadoWn.5723]

More thematically would be to give Thief a mace to honor those street thugs with baseball bats you know.

[MakubeC.3026]

I have no problem with a GS Thief. There's no lore conflict and it can be really thematic if done right.

Don't particularly like this idea. I think it's too confusing. There're a lot of cool Elite Ideas in the old forums, maybe somebody should do a super thread sticky or something.

[PopeUrban.2578]

I'd rather see a mace spec.

Its small, it's light, it has "crowd control thief" written all over it, its one handed for more build options and skills, and it would let me dual wield whiskey bottles.

[Amasoful.2690]

Any more thoughts guys?

[Orpheal.8263]

Greatswords fits to thieves so much, as like scepters to fit to warriors... *cough*

 

If we say, each Class gets 3 more Specs from now on, then the Thief should receive Weapons, that do actually really fit to its nimble, elegant and mobile gameplay, making it a fast and silent attacker.

 

Weapons like Chakrams (Spec 3), Chain Whips (Spec 4), Longbows baseline, Offhand Swords baseline, and lastly Claws/Gloves (Spec 5) are, what does fit to the thief and what the thief needs to receive to enhance a bit more its longrange gameplay instead of having for that only the idiotic rifle that doesn't fit to the thief, just because people cried like kids for wanting to have a wannabe sniper in this game, while giving the class also what it needs for more build diversity - some midrange weapons with the Chakram and Chain Whip and lastly with the Claws/Gloves somethign for the Martial Arts Fans, cause if there is a Class that suits perfectly for this job, to go full on Kung Fu and such stuff, then its the thief with its Initiative system.

[Amasoful.2690]

> @Orpheal.8263 said:

> Greatswords fits to thieves so much, as like scepters to fit to warriors... *cough*

>

> If we say, each Class gets 3 more Specs from now on, then the Thief should receive Weapons, that do actually really fit to its nimble, elegant and mobile gameplay, making it a fast and silent attacker.

>

> Weapons like Chakrams (Spec 3), Chain Whips (Spec 4), Longbows baseline, Offhand Swords baseline, and lastly Claws/Gloves (Spec 5) are, what does fit to the thief and what the thief needs to receive to enhance a bit more its longrange gameplay instead of having for that only the idiotic rifle that doesn't fit to the thief, just because people cried like kids for wanting to have a wannabe sniper in this game, while giving the class also what it needs for more build diversity - some midrange weapons with the Chakram and Chain Whip and lastly with the Claws/Gloves somethign for the Martial Arts Fans, cause if there is a Class that suits perfectly for this job, to go full on Kung Fu and such stuff, then its the thief with its Initiative system.

 

I think Anet mentioned a few times now that no new weapon types are coming anytime soon to the game, instead they reinvent the wheel like what they did with staff for Druid and Revenant, and in my humber opinion Whips and claws/gloves don't fit thieves.

[Orpheal.8263]

Whips and Claws/Gloves absolutely do fit to Thieves much more, than say Hammers, Greatswords, Warhorns, Shields, Maces or Axes.

The only Weapons of the base Game left, that actually could make sense is the Longbow, Offhand Sword if Anet actually really wants to waste on these two weapons that should be baseline for Thief E-Specs. Then come to mind just only Scepter, Focus and Torch that are left, which could potentially make sense, where Scepter and Focus being too similar, so it wouldnt make sense to give them just both.

 

However, not all professions in the game are in the situation, that they have potentially left a few base game weapons over to use for upcoming expansions for new E-Specs.

Some, like the Warrior are hard on the edge of running out of Weapon options, that do make sense to give thenm, unless Anet doesn#t add for the Spec a new Weapon Type...

 

Adding new Weapon Types is no huge work, especially if animations do already exisst, and skins, like that would be halway the case for Polearms that could reuse the animations and skins of spears, which is by far now the most simplest new weapon type to add, by just making Spears turn into polearms as hybrid weapon useable on land as like in water. And whips already exist in their animations.

 

Greedy people do make out of the whole thing just only a much bigger fuss, than it really is, because alot of people expect from Anet, that the moment they add a new weapon type, that this weapon type should have already from begin out the same huge amount of weapon skins, like an 5 year old weapon type, that has been there from day 1.

How ridiculous this expectation from these people is, i surely don't have to explain you, because its selfexplanatory, that a new added weapon skin never will get introduced instantly with hundreds of skins for it also too. anet sirely has the option to retroactively add skins for these sets to the new added weapon, but thats something, that will take its time and will happne if at all very slowly step by step, because 5 years of time advantage, that the other weapon types have over a new weapon type isn't catched up just in no time by tomorrow, ints not liek that they have to do like Bibi Blocksberg just a "hex hex" and its magically there >.>

 

Yes, Anet has mentioned that they "currently" have no intentions of adding new weapon types, but before we even are again so far that we can possible think about the chance of addign new weapon types, are going again at least another 2+ years into the lands... and in 2 plus years can change alot and out of a currently not planned can quickly become the next expansions great expansion seller feature number 1, like they did with Mounts ...

How long have they told us, that Mounts are not currently planned basically and see, what we have now? Right, Mounts!

 

One should never take the words of a Dev for always 100% granted, it might end up that they say no to something just simle, to not create preemtive hpye for somethign, so that they have something on the backhand for late,r with that they can surprise us as part of added new features via Expansions like they did that now with Mounts... because ANet was surely working on Mounts already way longer, than the last 2 years and Mount Wish Threads have been basically there since the release of the game...

 

What I want to say with this is, that people shouldn#t give up so easily on Anet havign to sadd new weapon types. If we, the community are just liud enough on this topic for a long enough time, that ANet sees, that we really want to have them, and don't giver up on this wish, then they simply somewhen can't ignore this wish anymore, until the moment has come, that Anet can even make profit with this wish becoming true - like with Mounts beign added with an expansion, to make profit with them as expansiion seller feature, especially in this case after the game sales through the help of mount skins from the gemstore that will come.