Argamir.3651 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 From a WvW/PvP viewpoint. Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game. This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 > @"Argamir.3651" said: > From a WvW/PvP viewpoint. > Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game. > > This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead. Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Curze.5130 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 because your being hit by a double whammy: - noone cares about Engineers, not even arena net - noone cares about PvP, not even arena net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruufio.1496 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Tbh who cares since no one uses explosives in WvW/PvP anyway. It's a buff for those 0.01% group of players who do raids I guess...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mes.4607 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"Argamir.3651" said: > > From a WvW/PvP viewpoint. > > Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game. > > > > This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead. > > Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy: Off topic, but... How do you think Holo will be effected by today's patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iozeph.5617 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 > @"Argamir.3651" said: >WHY IS ONE OF THE WORST SPECS IN THE GAME GETTING NERFED? Since when was institutional incompetence required to be governed by rationality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 > @"mrauls.6519" said: > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > @"Argamir.3651" said: > > > From a WvW/PvP viewpoint. > > > Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game. > > > > > > This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead. > > > > Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy: > > Off topic, but... How do you think Holo will be effected by today's patch? Nerf to wood league Holo Shockwave spammers, no real change to plat+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @"mrauls.6519" said: > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > @"Argamir.3651" said: > > > > From a WvW/PvP viewpoint. > > > > Explosions was already one of the worst traitlines pvp/wvw-wise, since it offers nothing but damage and because grenades and bombs are trash. Core engineer was already niche at best, but i was still playing it occasionally, just for the fun of it. But now the trait that previously gave access to easy +10% damage is getting nerfed to 0.5% damage per vulnerability, just so that PvE players get 2.5% damage out of it. It is changes like these that are really saddening, because they show how little consideration goes into balancing the game. > > > > > > > > This may not matter to many, since core engineer/explosives was dead anyways in PvP/WvW, but i think it's sad that a spec that could use buffs really badly is nerfed instead. > > > > > > Yeah it is a PvP nerf, to get that 10% damage you need 20 vuln instead of 1. Nobody cares because it's such an incredibly PvE only game :joy: > > > > Off topic, but... How do you think Holo will be effected by today's patch? > > Nerf to wood league Holo Shockwave spammers, no real change to plat+ Pretty much. Incidental Holo Shockwave hits are mostly gone, but decent players won't really notice the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoSpyro.1780 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I think all they have to do is include +50% Vuln duration with Steel Packed and it'll be fine At higher stacks this is a buff. 37.5% damage from max Vuln instead of 25. Hey, maybe a reason to run double Goggles. Lul. Also noticed that it might be a good change in favor of Condi. It's a bonus to Vuln and not just flat physical damage. YO IS HYBRID GRENADE KIT BECOMING A THING NOW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aooogah.1673 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 @"XenoSpyro.1780" At higher stacks, this is a buff, but it is 37.5% damage from max vuln instead of ~~25~~ 35%. Only fair to acknowledge how it was instead of comparing it to base Vuln. I like what you pointed out about the grenade kit/boost to Condi. Grenades are pretty much required to maintain Vuln stacks yourself since they give so many more explosions than bombs. Wasn't hybrid grenade kit already a thing though? It's a staple of hybrid, power, and condition builds, for scrapper, for holo, and for core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta.2563 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 You wanna hear sad.. full zerk gear (ascended).. with scholar runes. Hit a veteran mob in domain of istan for 1511 damage with the auto attack with grenades. Grenades need like a 250% damage increase. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dediggefedde.4961 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Vegeta.2563" said: > Grenades need like a 250% damage increase. Seriously. A rough calculation verifies the shortcoming. Granade barrage hits 6 times with a 0.6 power coefficient. With Rifle (attack power ~1100), 3k attack and a 2k armor (1k toughness) target, if all grenades hit, that's a 6k dmg in a duel against a glass-canon without damage reduction. And those grenades get red circles (only barrage). Plus low chances that all hit, individual crits, all projectiles... Grenade-1 hits for 117+33% * power. Hammer-1 hits for 355+0.88 * power (3rd strike 480+1.2*power). So, whacking someone with a hammer does more damage than hitting him with 3 grenades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said: > So, whacking someone with a hammer does more damage than hitting him with 3 grenades. In fairness, a hammer of the usual GW2 size would probably hurt much more than just hitting someone with 3 grenades. The explosion is a whole other matter though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dediggefedde.4961 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > hitting someone with 3 grenades. > The explosion is a whole other matter though. They always do explode in-game. I wasn't talking about throwing 3 fist-sized stones at someone... Though, the dealt damage feels comparable. ;) Oh, by the way: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Rock_(stolen_skill) "throw rock" deals 279+105% * attack damage. That's triple the damage of a grenade explosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > hitting someone with 3 grenades. > > The explosion is a whole other matter though. > > They always do explode in-game. I wasn't talking about throwing 3 fist-sized stones at someone... > Though, the dealt damage feels comparable. ;) > > Oh, by the way: > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Rock_(stolen_skill) > "throw rock" deals 279+105% * attack damage. > That's triple the damage of a grenade explosion. > Bringing rocks to a gun fight = valid in GW2 logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 The lower grenade damage comes from balancing distances. Ranged DPS should be lower than melee DPS, so you'll see bomb kit and other melee options do more damage than grenades. That said, I hate that you have to take a trait to make them work. Without that speed buff, they're annoying to use in PVE and nigh useless in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > The lower grenade damage comes from balancing distances. Ranged DPS should be lower than melee DPS, so you'll see bomb kit and other melee options do more damage than grenades. > > That said, I hate that you have to take a trait to make them work. Without that speed buff, they're annoying to use in PVE and nigh useless in PVP. I dont think the ranger got the memo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dediggefedde.4961 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 All engi builds excell at mid to close-range. There are SD and quickness-mortar variants, but even SD can be easily evaded due to projectile speed and appearance, when the source is far enough away. So, even those builds get advantages when fighting mid-/close-range. There are other classes/builds like mesmer/ranger/deadeyes with heavy ranged damage (necro, if 900 dist counts). So, think of grenade barrage. Slow-flying projectiles, often with particle effects (hope/predator) and 6 red circles and a big throwing animation. 25s CD and 6 times retaliation backfire (up to 30 times against groups). Uncontrollable target-spread, individual critchance, reflectable projectiles. Source and target are glass canons. In the low probability case that all hit the target face-tanks at 6k damage. So, I still believe it's pretty underwhelming in PvP/WvW. There was a suggestion some time ago that I still think of highly: remove direct damage from grenades, give 2 burning and F bleeding (or also burning) and make it a ranged condi-weapon. remove conditions from bomb kit and make it a power-aligned kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said: > There was a suggestion some time ago that I still think of highly: remove direct damage from grenades, give 2 burning and F bleeding (or also burning) and make it a ranged condi-weapon. remove conditions from bomb kit and make it a power-aligned kit. That would make old me very happy. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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