[merged] Equipment templates offer less for those that have invested into the game more - Legendary

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Kidel.2057" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > I think they want to add the ability to have different skins to ledgie armor, but they didnt want to hold templates off on that alone. (they said something of the like on the stream).

>

> Do you have source for this? It would solve the issue.

 

somewhere in their build template stream, Id have to rewatch.

But it was when one of them was showing different armor skins.

[kharmin.7683]

Why another thread on the same topic? [https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89344/equipment-templates-offer-less-for-those-that-have-invested-into-the-game-more-legendary-issues](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89344/equipment-templates-offer-less-for-those-that-have-invested-into-the-game-more-legendary-issues#latest "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89344/equipment-templates-offer-less-for-those-that-have-invested-into-the-game-more-legendary-issues")

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Miatela.5047" said:

> I think asking for Arenanet to realise the loss in effective inventory space is going to be too much. However, I'd at least like the nicety of being able to store different fashion loadouts but using the same legendary armor on one character. That seems like a fair trade off given the disparity in gained inventory space.

 

That's truly an interesting idea and would be a fair trade-off for many (not for me, though, because I would only use that feature on one character, I suppose). It's probably easier to implement than a save/load function for gear templates. I'd still prefer the latter for legendary equipment, though. ;)

[Glacial.9516]

> @"Miatela.5047" said:

> I've responded to these arguments many times in this thread. For the sake of clarity, here is the breakdown again.

>

> Legendary items remain the same.

>

> Ascended items gain features - additional bag space saved compared with legendaries and skin swapping.

>

> _"Punishment"_ - if a player keeps only legendary gear they pay the same for their equipment templates _but get less features_.

From what I understand this is not true. Legendaries (which can freely remove Runes, Sigils and Infusions) are able to share those items with other templates, a QoL benefit that is not available to Ascended (ie. a benefit that applies when using the same upgrades on your legendary templates). Conversely when you are using different upgrades you save the bag space of storing them (which is admittedly less space than storing an entire set of gear lest you be using more than 6 different kinds of upgrades, but it's still a win-win for people with Legendaries in both cases; QoL when reusing upgrades, bag space when not).

 

I'm not sure I would consider the cosmetic skin swapping a point against Legendaries as much as a plus for having multiple combat-ready sets of gear, whether they be Legendary, Ascended, Exotic or otherwise (realistically it is a minor point in favor of Ascended/Exotics though). If it is for non-combat purposes - use white gear for your fashion needs. I personally still have 3 different sets of white/blue gear in my inventory for these eventualities (white/blue so they maintain account-bound status and I can share/store them on alts), one of which will temporarily make its way into my gear templates to free up 6 inventory slots. In the Guild Chat video they did discuss the wardrobe issue and while it would be nice (wardrobe templates) they mentioned concerns which must first be addressed. Additionally, if they do eventually implement wardrobe templates (and I hope they do), I would truly hope they don't restrict it to Legendaries.

 

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"Kidel.2057" said:

> >

> > Do you have source for this? It would solve the issue.

>

> somewhere in their build template stream, Id have to rewatch.

> But it was when one of them was showing different armor skins.

From the youtube post, 41:54 through 42:40 in Guild Chat Ep 93 touches on Wardrobe templates, I'm not sure if its mentioned elsewhere.

 

 

[Lucinellia.9247]

> @"Glacial.9516" said:

>

> From what I understand this is not true. Legendaries (which can freely remove Runes, Sigils and Infusions) are able to share those items with other templates, a QoL benefit that is not available to Ascended (ie. a benefit that applies when using the same upgrades on your legendary templates). Conversely when you are using different upgrades you save the bag space of storing them (which is admittedly less space than storing an entire set of gear lest you be using more than 6 different kinds of upgrades, but it's still a win-win for people with Legendaries in both cases; QoL when reusing upgrades, bag space when not).

 

Would you care to share more of your thoughts on this. Why is it not true? Can you specially point to the flaw in the scenario I showed in my first post that would make the purchase of the template equitable?

 

Yes, Legendaries retain the ability to swap runes but against Ascended items they do not gain additional QoL features while Ascended does.

 

Look at it this way:

 

Your current investment into, say, legendary armor is around 2500 gold.

 

Before equipment templates, that gold got you the following features;

+ Bag space saved

+ Ability to swap stats and runes

 

After templates, that gold gets you;

+ Ability to swap stats and runes

 

Now consider ascended armor.

 

Before equipment templates, running ascended had the following negatives;

- Takes up more bag space

- Can't swap stats and runes

 

But for positives you get;

+ Costs less gold.

 

After equipment templates ascended has the following benefits;

+ Bag space saved (as the template does this)

+ Costs less gold

+ Gains fashion QoL

 

Meanwhile, if you want to gain that last point with legendary, you need to go ahead and gear out a new set of ascended items. With runes that won't be able to be hot-swapped, negating that advantage of legendary gear too.

 

Which makes the situation after ascended this;

 

Legendaries:

+ Ability to swap stats and runes

- Additional bag space not gained

- No fashion QoL

- Costs more to craft in gold, time and other resources

- You need ascended anyway if you want the same features as someone without legendary gear

 

Ascended

- Can't swap stats and runes

+ Bag space gained

+ Fashion QoL

+ Cheaper overall cost

[Glacial.9516]

Legendaries will save bag space after the templates, just not nearly as much as multiple Ascended sets will. Any time you used different sigils, runes or infusions for different stats the unused components would take up space in your bag (though only a couple of slots at best, and now with Legendary runes even less). The Armory will hold them just as it will hold the additional set of ascended gear. It's not much, but it's something. I don't dispute that Legendaries will not benefit from the saved bag space as much as Ascended will (in part, because Legendaries have been benefiting from that all along) but the new templates will still be a QoL buff for Legendaries in other areas.

 

I don't think you're wrong for feeling cheated. You made a decision to invest in something with long term benefits and a recent change will likely make it less of a benefit than it was before. It reminds me of the shared inventory slot situation in regard to players who had purchased multiple salvage-o-matics. If I recall, Anet refunded purchases that were made shortly before shared inventory slots were introduced while deciding those who had owned them for longer periods had gotten their use out of them. My preference would have been to see an NPC to trade in the extras at a reduced gem rate (maybe 1/3rd of the value?) which for the situation at hand, might be like trading in your Legendary armor for 3-4 sets of ascended? (Not a great comparison as Legendary armor is obviously more useful than a second salvage-o-matic would be!)

 

Anyway that's a bit off topic. The core issue at hand seems to be the fashion QoL that multiple ascended sets can employ but this is in fact not a new feature of equipment templates, it already works that way now. By the nature of multiple ascended sets being different pieces of gear they can of course each use a different skin. Instead what likely makes this feel unfair is that Ascended is gaining the bag space benefit that legendaries have. Since I can't imagine Anet is going to expand the legendary benefits to include free transmuting, we can instead hope for Wardrobe templates sooner than later.

[Lucinellia.9247]

> @"Glacial.9516" said:

> **I don't think you're wrong for feeling cheated**. You made a decision to invest in something with long term benefits and a recent change will likely make it less of a benefit than it was before. It reminds me of the shared inventory slot situation in regard to players who had purchased multiple salvage-o-matics.

 

I mean, isn't that pretty much all that you need to say? The rest of your points have already been addressed in this thread, multiple times, including by myself. We are all well aware that we still get _some_ storage space saved. However, it is unarguably less and the penalty becomes larger for every piece of legendary gear a player owns and additional template they purchase.

 

One of the main distinctions from the salvage-o-matic situation that you describe (which does suck) is that this removes a potent halo-effect from raids, WvW and PvP. The incentive to gain legendary armor is really diminished by the manner in which build templates are being introduced and there is no doubt that this will have a negative effect on those game modes. I'm already seeing people in my guilds saying that they aren't going to continue raiding as much due to judging the benefit of legendary armor as lesser with the introduction of templates.

 

> The core issue at hand seems to be the fashion QoL that multiple ascended sets can employ but this is in fact not a new feature of equipment templates, it already works that way now.

 

No. It really isn't. The issue is that a player who has invested in legendary items pays the same but gains less (yes, that includes fashion QoL but as you note it also means wasted storage potential) unless they choose to invest in ascended items anyway. That could definitely be lessened by introducing fashion QoL however the entire manner in which equipment templates are being monetised shows a lack of forethought and consideration in which players will be purchasing the most templates and _why_ they will express a negative sentiment about the feature.

 

In my opinion it shows that Anet thought about monetisation first and implementation second.

 

> Since I can't imagine Anet is going to expand the legendary benefits to include free transmuting, we can instead hope for Wardrobe templates sooner than later.

 

I don't see anyone in this thread asking for free transmuting. Certainly, I've never suggested such and I would ask you to go back and read my posts again if that is what you are taking away from them. Instead, I clearly noted a solution being saving fashion independently of gear _at the appropriate transmutation charge cost_ for legendary armor, weapons and backpieces. If that is the Wardrobe template system you are referring to, fine. But Ascended already gains this with the current implementation and waiting on a hypothetical and far future feature isn't the right call in my opinion.