pah.4931 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > > @kKagari.6804 said: > > Look at what Arenanet said during the AMA: > > > > What is the long-term goal for power vs. condi balance in PvE – Power is intended to be more spike damage-centric. Condi more ramping sustained damage. Currently there are some issues with how quickly condition damage can be spiked up, negating the benefits of power damage. If I presented you with a power skill that dealt 1,000 damage instantaneously and a condition one that dealt 1,000 damage over 4 seconds there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the instant option every time. Not counting other effects, condition skills must inflict more damage over their duration in order to make power vs. condi into a real choice. Moving forward we’ll be aiming changes to bring a bit more parity between the options through the ramp time and using that to emphasize some of the differences. That said, a fundamental issue is that foes whose health pools allow them to survive a significant amount of time (beyond the point of condition stack ramping) are going to favor condition builds unless they specifically have mechanics which deal with conditions. > > Which is a clueless statement because condi also has the advantage of applying the damage in full upon landing the skill instead of a channel being interrupted on a power skill like gravedigger or whirling wrath. So condi specs lose less from being forced off target. > > That should upset you, because what they're saying is they're gonna do more crappy balance design like mordrem husks and the old fractal armor scaling where they make these mobs that make you useless depending on what spec you play in order to encourage "variety", but it's a meaningless gesture because all it encourages is situational stacking of specs like how necros used to be stacked before they had to go and fix the armor scaling on fractals so power specs would stop being kicked. Yep. That is a really curious statement because it's only true when they design the game to make it true. There are WAY more variables involved (blocking a huge attack, versus one stack of 25 of a condi, for example). It's not just X damage instantly versus X damage over time. They should balance with "sustained" damage in mind, not immediate. Over a 10 minute fight, a power build and a condi build should do close to the same damage--or at least that should be the GOAL. Otherwise, they will create a meta where all dps runs Condi... oh wait. He should have reversed what he said so he could maybe have had an epiphany during the AMA: "If I presented you with a condition skill that dealt 20,000 damage over 10 seconds, and a power one that dealt 15,000 damage over the same 10 seconds, there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the more damage option every time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. It's a good point. But wow's builds are rarely just DD versus DoT. They are usually all hybrids and individual skills are modified to balance as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @pah.4931 said: > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. > > It's a good point. But wow's builds are rarely just DD versus DoT. They are usually all hybrids and individual skills are modified to balance as needed. That's because somewhere in beta development these Anet devs had the terrible idea of splitting power and condition damage, which effectively killed any ability to play a hybrid weaponset or build. If they removed condition damage and expertise, and changed conditions to scale from power and be able to crit, we wouldn't have the issues we are having right now. Power would be the universal offensive stat, and for secondary stats our choice would be in the utility of being more sturdy (toughness), capable of absorbing more spike damage (vitality), or more supportive through healing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > > @pah.4931 said: > > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > > > > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. > > > > It's a good point. But wow's builds are rarely just DD versus DoT. They are usually all hybrids and individual skills are modified to balance as needed. > > That's because somewhere in beta development these Anet devs had the terrible idea of splitting power and condition damage, which effectively killed any ability to play a hybrid weaponset or build. > > If they removed condition damage and expertise, and changed conditions to scale from power and be able to crit, we wouldn't have the issues we are having right now. > > Power would be the universal offensive stat, and for secondary stats our choice would be in the utility of being more sturdy (toughness), capable of absorbing more spike damage (vitality), or more supportive through healing power. That's the first time I've heard an actual coherent way of fixing conditions. Kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. Again, we have 5 years of game development experience in GW2. I could care less what WoW does. It's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > I don't think it's fair to say that a 10% increase in damage barely affects performance. 10% is not an insignificant amount of damage on a power build ... it's 10%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that it's not THE meta power build has more to do with Scourge being off balance than Reaper being underbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not 10%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to consider uptime. The trait will not have 100% uptime because outside reaper shroud 5 you virtually don't have much in the way of chill, and in a raid nobody else but power revenant, which is also not viable, cannot upkeep chill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To give you some understanding, greatsword chill requires that you autoattack and cast nothing else to maintain that chill the final chain applies. That's how short it is. If you use grave digger or greatsword 3, that chill uptime drops easily below 50% uptime. At under 50% health on an opponent where you're spamming gravedigger, you have 0% chill uptime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That means the real value of that awful trait is realistically ~3-5% damage increase, and once a target hits 50% health and you start spamming gravedigger, the trait gives ZERO benefit since there's no chill. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's awesome ... people complain Reaper doesn't do more damage ... but can't find additional ways to chill foes to get the 10% damage boost they just got in a trait. I'm sure Anet are smacking their foreheads right about now. I can assure you that maintaining perma chill on a foe is not hard to do, nor does it require giving up anything to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting though ... even if you did get a flat 10% buff to DPS on reaper, we know it's not enough; it's clear you are talking about raids. The fact is that it's going to take much more to make power reaper into a raid-level damage. The other guy was right ... no one cares about 10% more damage if it doesn't do that .. and that's why power reaper is never going to get the buffs that are going to make you happy, because your interest isn't about reaper damage, it's about reapers in raids. Check this guy out ... he just want's reaper to be meta. I got news for him; Scourge is about as good as it gets, and that's going to get hit soon too. 10% should sound like a bounty at this point ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking trash tier damage and increasing it by 10% still results in trash tier damage. Also power reaper being bad has literally nothing to do with scourge. If scourge is nerfed, reaper doesn't become meta, rather if scourge is nerfed the entire necromancer profession ceases to be competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't even a PvE thing, power reaper is also suffering from trash damage in sPvP aswell, because it does less damage than other brawlers while also having worse sustain than other brawlers. > > > > > > > > > > > > That 10% on chill buff you crap on ... THAT'S about the scale of the buffs you're going to see; that represents Anet's stomach for increasing Reaper damage. If that doesn't propel it into power reaper raid build level, I don't think much more will. > > > > > > > > > > This is why I refuse to not only play another build or another class for that matter because why should I show respect for a game mode by completely dismantling my play style and character theme if ANet doesn't have enough respect for Power Reapers to adjust them enough to get a seat at that table. > > > > > > > > You did that the second you bought this game ... or any other MMO for that matter. Games change all the time that cause players to rethink their builds or rotations or gear or whatever else the player controls. This is no different. There is nothing exceptional about game changes affecting how players play the game. Your playstyle is not dismantled at all in all frankness; nothing prevents you from continuing to play the build you enjoy. Your simply to stubborn to play the builds you know will give you more damage because of your ideal, romantic idea about how the game should evolve without affecting how you play it ... which is completely removed from reality. > > > > > > I did that the second I bought the game, how so I fail to see any thugs busting down my door forcing my to play a Ranger, or forcing me to re spec as Scourge, cool story bro. > > > > I don't get this statement ... if you bought the game and didn't think changes to it would affect how you play it or how you feel about what you are playing, then you aren't very experienced in playing MMO's or you aren't being realistic. How's that for a cool bro story? #stayunreal > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > Exactly ... exactly my point. Targeting 'meta-level' or 'raid-level' damage output is simply NOT realistic, > > > > > > > > > > Why? Power DPS can be meta competitive (see hammer guard or rev prior to August). Why should reaper not have the same potential? Because it can be tankier? When the entire premise in PvE is that survivability is best accomplished through avoidance and active defenses, who cares? Want to balance it for PvP? Tie it to decimate defenses and have damage ramp hinge on vulnerability stacks, them split as necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > Also ... I'm not sure if it's a 'clever' idea or just a coincidence, but I think the idea that this requires players to choose between gravedigger spam and chill upkeep is ... an interesting development. > > > > > > > > > > Given that the skill maintains its reset below 50%, I think you're reaching here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lots of things CAN be ... that's not a relevant question. The real answer you are looking for is that it's simply not necessary for Anet to give us all a whole bunch of meta builds. Just because the meta build for a class isn't the build you want it to be is really not a compelling reason to get it changed, nor does it make sense to request all that effort to essentially give an equivalent damage build to the meta. There simply isn't any reason to, other than the whim of particular players. > > > > > > It's necessary if they want to retain players. There is nothing more absolutely frustrating to a player, than their favorite class being trash in their favorite gamemode. > > > > No it's not ... because every MMO works like this. If there was an MMO where your choices were immune to games changes, then everyone that cared about never having to change would be playing it. The fact is that this isn't GW2, nor is it most other MMO's I'm familiar with. It's simply a fundamental part of what you sign up for when you play an MMO. It's only frustrating because you didn't have a reasonable expectation for how game changes affect gameplay. Game changes affecting gameplay is not a unique feature to GW2. > > I'm still rocking a Power Reaper, still doing very well in the Open World which is my preferred game mode, have no problems in Fractals, and raids are full of people I want nothing to do with. > > How am I being delusional when my choices are quite literally working well for me. > > "Play the way you want" Guild Wars 2. Because you think your power reaper build should be immune to game changes. As soon as you bought an MMO, you must accept the fact that game changes affect bulids you like to play. That doesn't mean you can't play them ... I just means they might change and that we should act maturely with that understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. > > Again, we have 5 years of game development experience in GW2. I could care less what WoW does. It's irrelevant. Fascinating... So Obtena, you think that history showed that Anet don't really care about balance and is mainly delivering thematic variety. And thus player should enjoy thematic variety instead of whinning because some of these thematics are underperforming in the actual content? Don't play meta thematics, enjoy the other thematics even if you struggle to reach 3/4th of what the meta thematics does. In short, chose your build like your armor or weapon skin, after all after 5 year of game developpement experience, we can say without a doubt that GW2 is just a game where you show off thematics. Enjoy your vampire thematic it's cooler than the puny druid that goes all black and shiny to heal it's allies. Enjoy your death god wielding scythe thematic, it look so damn awesome that with this look mobs and players should just drop dead in front of you. Enjoy the awesome feeling of being in command of an army of deads, no other profession can do that! Enjoy the feeling of corupting boons from your foes, the paroxysm of the sadism, nobody should care that you need boons to corrupt for it to be enjoyable. If you happen to have the good skin alongside mechanisms thematic you chose, there is no way you won't be able to enjoy the game... Yes... fascinating... We should all make a shaddy looking necromancer character that fear to leave it's home unless it's nightime because we chose the super hyper cool vampire thematic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. > > Again, we have 5 years of game development experience in GW2. I could care less what WoW does. It's irrelevant. From the same guy that was trying to school us on the history MMOs, are you a professional cherry picker? > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > I don't think it's fair to say that a 10% increase in damage barely affects performance. 10% is not an insignificant amount of damage on a power build ... it's 10%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that it's not THE meta power build has more to do with Scourge being off balance than Reaper being underbalanced. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not 10%. > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to consider uptime. The trait will not have 100% uptime because outside reaper shroud 5 you virtually don't have much in the way of chill, and in a raid nobody else but power revenant, which is also not viable, cannot upkeep chill. > > > > > > > > > > > > To give you some understanding, greatsword chill requires that you autoattack and cast nothing else to maintain that chill the final chain applies. That's how short it is. If you use grave digger or greatsword 3, that chill uptime drops easily below 50% uptime. At under 50% health on an opponent where you're spamming gravedigger, you have 0% chill uptime. > > > > > > > > > > > > That means the real value of that awful trait is realistically ~3-5% damage increase, and once a target hits 50% health and you start spamming gravedigger, the trait gives ZERO benefit since there's no chill. > > > > > > > > > > That's awesome ... people complain Reaper doesn't do more damage ... but can't find additional ways to chill foes to get the 10% damage boost they just got in a trait. I'm sure Anet are smacking their foreheads right about now. I can assure you that maintaining perma chill on a foe is not hard to do, nor does it require giving up anything to do so. > > > > > > > > > > It is interesting though ... even if you did get a flat 10% buff to DPS on reaper, we know it's not enough; it's clear you are talking about raids. The fact is that it's going to take much more to make power reaper into a raid-level damage. The other guy was right ... no one cares about 10% more damage if it doesn't do that .. and that's why power reaper is never going to get the buffs that are going to make you happy, because your interest isn't about reaper damage, it's about reapers in raids. Check this guy out ... he just want's reaper to be meta. I got news for him; Scourge is about as good as it gets, and that's going to get hit soon too. 10% should sound like a bounty at this point ... > > > > > > > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Taking trash tier damage and increasing it by 10% still results in trash tier damage. Also power reaper being bad has literally nothing to do with scourge. If scourge is nerfed, reaper doesn't become meta, rather if scourge is nerfed the entire necromancer profession ceases to be competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't even a PvE thing, power reaper is also suffering from trash damage in sPvP aswell, because it does less damage than other brawlers while also having worse sustain than other brawlers. > > > > > > > > > > That 10% on chill buff you crap on ... THAT'S about the scale of the buffs you're going to see; that represents Anet's stomach for increasing Reaper damage. If that doesn't propel it into power reaper raid build level, I don't think much more will. > > > > > > > > This is why I refuse to not only play another build or another class for that matter because why should I show respect for a game mode by completely dismantling my play style and character theme if ANet doesn't have enough respect for Power Reapers to adjust them enough to get a seat at that table. > > > > > > You did that the second you bought this game ... or any other MMO for that matter. Games change all the time that cause players to rethink their builds or rotations or gear or whatever else the player controls. This is no different. There is nothing exceptional about game changes affecting how players play the game. Your playstyle is not dismantled at all in all frankness; nothing prevents you from continuing to play the build you enjoy. Your simply to stubborn to play the builds you know will give you more damage because of your ideal, romantic idea about how the game should evolve without affecting how you play it ... which is completely removed from reality. > > > > I did that the second I bought the game, how so I fail to see any thugs busting down my door forcing my to play a Ranger, or forcing me to re spec as Scourge, cool story bro. > > I don't get this statement ... if you bought the game and didn't think changes to it would affect how you play it or how you feel about what you are playing, then you aren't very experienced in playing MMO's or you aren't being realistic. How's that for a cool bro story? #stayunreal > > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > Exactly ... exactly my point. Targeting 'meta-level' or 'raid-level' damage output is simply NOT realistic, > > > > > > > > Why? Power DPS can be meta competitive (see hammer guard or rev prior to August). Why should reaper not have the same potential? Because it can be tankier? When the entire premise in PvE is that survivability is best accomplished through avoidance and active defenses, who cares? Want to balance it for PvP? Tie it to decimate defenses and have damage ramp hinge on vulnerability stacks, them split as necessary. > > > > > > > > > Also ... I'm not sure if it's a 'clever' idea or just a coincidence, but I think the idea that this requires players to choose between gravedigger spam and chill upkeep is ... an interesting development. > > > > > > > > Given that the skill maintains its reset below 50%, I think you're reaching here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lots of things CAN be ... that's not a relevant question. The real answer you are looking for is that it's simply not necessary for Anet to give us all a whole bunch of meta builds. Just because the meta build for a class isn't the build you want it to be is really not a compelling reason to get it changed, nor does it make sense to request all that effort to essentially give an equivalent damage build to the meta. There simply isn't any reason to, other than the whim of particular players. > > > > It's necessary if they want to retain players. There is nothing more absolutely frustrating to a player, than their favorite class being trash in their favorite gamemode. > > No it's not ... because every MMO works like this. If there was an MMO where your choices were immune to games changes, then everyone that cared about never having to change would be playing it. The fact is that this isn't GW2, nor is it most other MMO's I'm familiar with. It's simply a fundamental part of what you sign up for when you play an MMO. It's only frustrating because you didn't have a reasonable expectation for how game changes affect gameplay. Game changes affecting gameplay is not a unique feature to GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 I love how I ask people that they stop responding to that person with a history of derailing threads, and still they feed the troll anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > > > > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. > > > > Again, we have 5 years of game development experience in GW2. I could care less what WoW does. It's irrelevant. > > Fascinating... So Obtena, you think that history showed that Anet don't really care about balance and is mainly delivering thematic variety. And thus player should enjoy thematic variety instead of whinning because some of these thematics are underperforming in the actual content? I don't think game history shows that Anet doesn't have a typical view on balance ... I know it; how else you do explain how badly classes and professions are balanced into a narrow range of reasonable damage after 5 years? Do you have a better idea than to enjoy playing builds you like and realize that playing meta is not important? Of course you do ... asking for unprecedented levels of additional DPS on power reaper to make it meta. I hope that works for you. In the meantime, those of us with a more realistic grasp on the development of the game will enjoy builds we like, be successful and have fun with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Aaaaand how will Arenanet gauge _your_ feelings? **★ T H U M B S ★** are the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluff.8962 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I'm now apathetic. I was Reaper in plat 1 and then pof hit. I tried scourge, didn't like the play style of mashing buttons to Condi crap all over whole battlefield in spvp- feels like I was cheating. I went back to Reaper and promptly dropped to gold 1 real quick. So just like anet wanted me to, I switch a new spec, holosmith. Doing alright but keeping 1:1 w/l ratio often getting top offense honors by out rotation. Still losing bc scourge is cancer and lots of teams running two scourge now. Can't do anything vs that... It's BS and I didn't buy for this experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @bluff.8962 said: > I'm now apathetic. > > I was Reaper in plat 1 and then pof hit. I tried scourge, didn't like the play style of mashing buttons to Condi crap all over whole battlefield in spvp- feels like I was cheating. I went back to Reaper and promptly dropped to gold 1 real quick. > > So just like anet wanted me to, I switch a new spec, holosmith. Doing alright but keeping 1:1 w/l ratio often getting top offense honors by out rotation. Still losing bc scourge is cancer and lots of teams running two scourge now. Can't do anything vs that... > > It's BS and I didn't buy for this experience. balance patch should be Tuesday, which should hopefully tone down the extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @Oldirtbeard.9834 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > @Ara.4569 said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm trying to understand. > > > > > > Are you on some kind of crusade against people who expect balance team to do their job ? > > > > > > Are you saying it's only natural for MMOGs to have garbage level balance ? > > > > > > If you were a board administrator, would you fire balance team because it's a waste of resource ? > > > > > > (Speaking in general because, in our case, ANet might receive state subventions for hiring mentally challenged family members, which is the only rational explanation I could think of.) > > > > > > > > > > OH I'm glad you asked because it's not like I haven't been asked this question many times and I was more than happy to enlighten some people based on the reality of the game's history and the dev's behaviors. I only need to ask you one provocative question: > > > > > > > > > > In the history of this game, what game changes have occurred that convinces you Anet is moving towards a character building system where there is balanced DPS across all classes and builds equivalent in damage (or in a reasonable range) within a class? > > > > > > > > > > I don't need anything by my eyes to see that whatever this 'balancing team' is using as a measure, it's not inline with any concept of equivalence in damage that people typically have. The evidence is numerous ... the lack of DPS balance between classes, the narrow set of optimized compositions, and finally, relevant to this thread, the lack of equivalent DPS builds within a class and it's elite specs. So maybe you like the romantic idea that what you think as balance is happening. If it is, it appears it's on a several-decades long roadmap based on how slow it's being executed. > > > > > > > > > > Frankly, I wouldn't fire them because I don't know what their idea of balance is; I just can plainly see it's not related to equivalent DPS over a wide range of classes and specs within a class. That much is clear. > > > > > > > > > > > @Loopgru.1026 said: > > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm puzzled. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you here? We know why we are- this is a bunch of people who like a particular play style in this game who are asking for it to be given a balance pass to be a more reasonable competitive choice. Why are you? Do you have a specific bone to pick with power reaper in one game mode or another that makes objecting to this very idea important enough to waste time on? > > > > > > > > > > I think it's got something to do with helping people realize their reality with a walkthrough of game history. The only bone I have to pick is when the ideas like this support the concept of pushing meta on players. These players arguments are largely self defeating to begin with "I really love playing build X and I can play it well and do what I want with it ... but it's not meta so QQ!!!" Those players are largely missing the whole point of why we have thematic variety in the first place. It's NOT to get a whole bunch of equivalent DPS builds; that's never going to be a goal in a game with this scale of options. If Anet wanted to deliver a game where everyone did the same damage, we wouldn't have 9 classes and elite specs and different gear prefixes ... with choice also comes deviation. That's just MMO reality. > > > > > > > > WoW seems to accomplish a close DPS margin while keeping distinct Play style themes between specs in each class as well as distinct class themes as well. > > > > > > Again, we have 5 years of game development experience in GW2. I could care less what WoW does. It's irrelevant. > > > > Fascinating... So Obtena, you think that history showed that Anet don't really care about balance and is mainly delivering thematic variety. And thus player should enjoy thematic variety instead of whinning because some of these thematics are underperforming in the actual content? > > I don't think game history shows that Anet doesn't has a typical view on balance ... I know it; how else you do explain how badly classes and professions are balanced into a narrow range of reasonable damage after 5 years? > > Do you have a better idea than to enjoy playing builds you like and realize that playing meta is not important? Of course you do ... asking for unprecedented levels of additional DPS on power reaper to make it meta. I hope that works for you. In the meantime, those of us with a more realistic grasp on the development of the game will enjoy builds we like, be successful and have fun with them. Players here don't ask for an unprecedented level of additionnal dps, players here ask for a level of dps that have the possibility to reach the same height as the level of dps that other professions dish out when they are playing full dps builds. At the moment, even a support warrior dish out more dps than a power reaper. Not everybody is a role player. Yes, it can be fun to play and it's a great way to socialize. However most player don't care about roleplay, They care about controling a sexy doll and want it to dominate other dolls both by the look and the firepower (usually). This lead to one thing, if some mechanism or "thematics" are underperforming, they are ostracized and players that want to use them are frustrated. And that's why balance is important because a frustrated player is not a player that enjoy the game. And I'm not imaining things when I say that a player that don't enjoy a game will most likely look away from this game. In the end thematic and balance are both essential for a game to keep it's player base, they are both important to keep the game "alive". That's why game like LOTRO which are heavily supported by their RP community have professions that are balanced. Because balance matter! Also, contrary to what you think, game history show that anet care about balance. The main issue is more than their balance is restrained by thematics and they lack the "will" to pass throught this thematic wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > Do you have a better idea than to enjoy playing builds you like and realize that playing meta is not important? Of course you do ... asking for unprecedented levels of additional DPS on power reaper to make it meta. I hope that works for you. In the meantime, those of us with a more realistic grasp on the development of the game will enjoy builds we like, be successful and have fun with them. Unprecedented? Stop being Obtuse and start being Obtena. It is precedented, every other company in the MMO business does balancing like that. Blizzard, for example, routinely does big damage increases of that nature, and the game's balance is in a much better state for it. The problem is that Anet ignores these precedences. Those of us with a more realistic grasp on the games industry realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Unprecedented ffs. So you want us to be happy with what we've been alotted and carry on without a word.. no. Carry on with builds we like - tick, Be successful with them - nahh mate. As asinine as you think our request is its still our right to ask for it, whether it gets up your goat or not. Do you play power reaper? If so what game content have you achieved success with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @Maunzi.3764 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > Do you have a better idea than to enjoy playing builds you like and realize that playing meta is not important? Of course you do ... asking for unprecedented levels of additional DPS on power reaper to make it meta. I hope that works for you. In the meantime, those of us with a more realistic grasp on the development of the game will enjoy builds we like, be successful and have fun with them. > > Unprecedented? Stop being Obtuse and start being Obtena. It is precedented, every other company in the MMO business does balancing like that. Blizzard, for example, routinely does big damage increases of that nature, and the game's balance is in a much better state for it. > > The problem is that Anet ignores these precedences. Those of us with a more realistic grasp on the games industry realize this. > No, every other company in the MMO is not following some balancing rulebook. Each does their own thing; each game is different. What Blizzard does is irrelevant to what Anet does. Anet isn't ignoring anything, there are no rules that need to be followed. If you had a grasp on games industry, you would see why this is true. > @Dadnir.5038 said: > Players here don't ask for an unprecedented level of additionnal dps, players here ask for a level of dps that have the possibility to reach the same height as the level of dps that other professions dish out when they are playing full dps builds. At the moment, even a support warrior dish out more dps than a power reaper. Simple question I guess ... how much of a damage boost does power reaper need to make it do that? Someone said 50% ... I doubt it's that high ... but then again, people are crapping on the 10% boost in the trait indicating that's not high enough. So it's somewhere between 10-50%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I've reflected on this situation I find my Reaper in and decided it Doesn't much matter to me in the long run if we get buffed, I do very well in the Open World as basically a demigod that's unkillable, I have a reliable spot in Fractals, as far as Raids are concerned I've argued tooth and nail with the personalities that Raid and that frequent the Forums and Reddit, they are not people I want to spend any time around, they do not fit into any definition of the kind of people I would find acceptable as sentient beings so who cares if I become META. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > Simple question I guess ... how much of a damage boost does power reaper need to make it do that? Someone said 50% ... I doubt it's that high ... but then again, people are crapping on the 10% boost in the trait indicating that's not high enough. So it's somewhere between 10-50%? 34k or more is the minimum expectation for a class to be considered for a dps slot. (note: this is the minimum, many other class easily do significantly more) Power Reaper currently does 25k, so reaper would need a buff that results in +9k overall dps to be considered usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > Simple question I guess ... how much of a damage boost does power reaper need to make it do that? Someone said 50% ... I doubt it's that high ... but then again, people are crapping on the 10% boost in the trait indicating that's not high enough. So it's somewhere between 10-50%? > > 34k or more is the minimum expectation for a class to be considered for a dps slot. (note: this is the minimum, many other class easily do significantly more) Power Reaper currently does 25k, so reaper would need a buff that results in +9k overall dps to be considered usable. > > Which make it something like 30%, Let's say that the axe skill only bonus affect all skills, you just need 20% more and for the sake of making you doing primarily damage while in shroud without letting you stay in shroud for all the fight duration, we just change _close to death_ so that the necromancer do more damage while in shroud when he is above 90% life force. And here we go power reaper have a correct dps which is difficult to maintain without a good rotation that involve using both in shroud skills and out of shroud skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > > @Crinn.7864 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > Simple question I guess ... how much of a damage boost does power reaper need to make it do that? Someone said 50% ... I doubt it's that high ... but then again, people are crapping on the 10% boost in the trait indicating that's not high enough. So it's somewhere between 10-50%? > > > > 34k or more is the minimum expectation for a class to be considered for a dps slot. (note: this is the minimum, many other class easily do significantly more) Power Reaper currently does 25k, so reaper would need a buff that results in +9k overall dps to be considered usable. > > > > > > Which make it something like 30%, Let's say that the axe skill only bonus affect all skills, you just need 20% more and for the sake of making you doing primarily damage while in shroud without letting you stay in shroud for all the fight duration, we just change _close to death_ so that the necromancer do more damage while in shroud when he is above 90% life force. And here we go power reaper have a correct dps which is difficult to maintain without a good rotation that involve using both in shroud skills and out of shroud skills. But that 20% whilst in shroud above 90% would never get used. The drain on shroud would take you below 90% very quickly and thus make the trait useless. If they want to buff shroud damage, then remove the skritty ferocity bonus from Reaper's Onslaught and replace with a damage modifier (I'd say +15%). Then a few more changes like the Unholy Fervor change you suggested, buff Spiteful Talisman to +10%, Strength of Undeath to +10% and we should be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitali.5039 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 >Necromancers are masters of the dark arts. They summon the dead to fight for them, channel blood energy and rend their enemies' souls. Necromancers draw on life force and use it to **strengthen or heal themselves and others**. As a scholar profession, necromancers wear light armor. I want a way to strengthen others with my life force in a core trait line. >**Strength of Undeath** >_You and nearby allies do more damage while above the life-force threshold. Maximum life force increased._ >Maximum Life Force Increase: 15% >Damage Increase: 5% >Life Force: 50% >Damage Increase: 10% >Life Force: 75% >Damage Increase: 15% >Life Force: 90% >Number of Targets: 5 >Interval: 3s >Radius: 600 >**Rending Shroud** >_Constantly apply vulnerability to nearby foes while in shroud. While under Rending Shroud's effect foes takes more damage._ >Vulnerability (10s): 3% Incoming Damage, 3% Incoming Condition Damage >Number of Targets: 5 >Interval: 3s >Radius: 360 >Damage Increase: 5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Power reaper buff bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @dceptaconroy.7928 said: > Power reaper buff bump. That's better than some of the buffs we got lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlyx.6732 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @kKagari.6804 said: > Look at what Arenanet said during the AMA: > > What is the long-term goal for power vs. condi balance in PvE – Power is intended to be more spike damage-centric. Condi more ramping sustained damage. Currently there are some issues with how quickly condition damage can be spiked up, negating the benefits of power damage. If I presented you with a power skill that dealt 1,000 damage instantaneously and a condition one that dealt 1,000 damage over 4 seconds there wouldn’t be a question about what build to choose; you’d go with the instant option every time. Not counting other effects, condition skills must inflict more damage over their duration in order to make power vs. condi into a real choice. Moving forward we’ll be aiming changes to bring a bit more parity between the options through the ramp time and using that to emphasize some of the differences. That said, a fundamental issue is that foes whose health pools allow them to survive a significant amount of time (beyond the point of condition stack ramping) are going to favor condition builds unless they specifically have mechanics which deal with conditions. the dont take CD into consideration ....the skill that deal 1k instant has 8s cd the skill that does 1000 over 4s has 5s CD ...so yeah who cares that 1 skill does 5k if has a 180s cd , while other that does 5k in 10s has 20s cd and why some specs are neglected so badly is beyond me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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