How viable is S/P in PvP and WvW?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I rarely see Sword/Pistol thieves these days, but when I do, they are a nightmare for my necro to fight. Immobilize, stun and evade damage frames from pistol whip makes them almost impossible to fight as a necro.

 

I see them so rarely though - are they not as viable as other weapon sets?

[mompen.7952]

I've seen people be potent with that set, for my own part I feel like it's a one trick pony.

I guess pistol whip paired with pul impact and sigil of draining it can be pretty strong if the chain hits.

[Alatar.7364]

S/P is a viable set should we speak of fighting.

However, the reason you don't see it often is that it lacks the Gap Closer skill of a D/P as your only Gap Closer has to be reseted by using more Initiative and it basically renews the Gap again.

 

* Also, while Pistol Whip is a great dmg and cleave skill, it is very situational and rather easy to predict or get out off. For better results you could use Sigil of Savagery to prolong the Stun duration.

* Another reason why it is not used much is that it's AA chain takes a bit longer than D/x and deals less dmg, also has more casting time there for suffers from Headshot spammers.

* The S/P also lacks any reliable Stealth source, at least for longer durations, unless of course it is traited with Bounding Dodger, which is quite a popular choice for S/P Thief but sacrifices Swiftness with that, and Swiftness is kind off useful for the currently demanded role of Thief.

* S/P opening Burst combo is also much weaker than the one of D/x which is but another requirement of Meta Thief thanks to its +1 Role.

 

Generaly: S/P is a very fun and dangerous set to play thanks to Pistol Whip and PI, but it will get outmatched by D/P when it comes to a bit more competitive play, not only because D/P deals dmg faster.

 

EDIT: Don't worry about that killing you as Necro, it is the Power Thief profession in general not only its weapon set. It is hard-counter to Necro.

[Alatar.7364]

Forgot to add the part about WvW:

In WvW the need for Stealth is much much bigger and so is the need for strongest possible Opening burst with Steal. So, I'd be surprised if you saw any S/P Thieves in WvW at all.

It is much less efficient there.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @Alatar.7364 said:

> Forgot to add the part about WvW:

> In WvW the need for Stealth is much much bigger and so is the need for strongest possible Opening burst with Steal. So, I'd be surprised if you saw any S/P Thieves in WvW at all.

> It is much less efficient there.

 

I do see them in WvW from time to time during off hours, when the population is much lower, with fewer encounters and mostly smaller scale fights.

I got no idea really how to fight them if they spam immobilize + pistol whip stun and evade while whipping.

 

But thanks for the info. That explains why they have been so rarely seen although personally I fear thieves that run this build the most when on my Necro.

[Alatar.7364]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > Forgot to add the part about WvW:

> > In WvW the need for Stealth is much much bigger and so is the need for strongest possible Opening burst with Steal. So, I'd be surprised if you saw any S/P Thieves in WvW at all.

> > It is much less efficient there.

>

> I do see them in WvW from time to time during off hours, when the population is much lower, with fewer encounters and mostly smaller scale fights.

> I got no idea really how to fight them if they spam immobilize + pistol whip stun and evade while whipping.

>

> But thanks for the info. That explains why they have been so rarely seen although personally I fear thieves that run this build the most when on my Necro.

 

Well you can fight them, but Necro will have a hard time doing so.

The Pistol Whip casting animation is Interruptable, if you can try to hard CC the Thief when his/hers character model is raising the hand in a wide swing-like animation from left to right. If you can't, at least you know when to dodge.

You can blow Thief to hell if you time your Shroud 5th skill (assuming you run Reaper). I'd suggest using it when you know that Thief already dodged several times so you are not going to miss that.

Regarding the Immobilize, I don't really know what to do against this one. Unless he/she is running Bandits Defense and/or Basilisk Venom or Impact Strike then you might try to use Break Stun skills, but I really don't think that any Thief is not running at least one of the above mentioned and you need to Break those much more importantly.

Some good Necros I know say that exiting shroud more often can help, so you have enough Life force to enter shroud while being Immobilized, etc.

Also if they use Pistol Whip on you and you manage to break the Stun _do not_ run to the sides but instead forward -> in the direction that Thief is facing, cause Pistol Whip does the dmg on the sides, too. Imagine the dmg radius like a half-circle sort of like letter "**C**". You are on top of it.

But general rule to beat a Thief is to learn the Evade frames to land hard-CCs and to predict the usage of Steal. Believe me, most of them _will_ use it immediately as they get within Range, mostly indicated by them doing some skill attack animation while being far away from you, cause we all know why =D

 

By the way I am so sorry for the long posts =D

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @Alatar.7364 said:

> > @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > > Forgot to add the part about WvW:

> > > In WvW the need for Stealth is much much bigger and so is the need for strongest possible Opening burst with Steal. So, I'd be surprised if you saw any S/P Thieves in WvW at all.

> > > It is much less efficient there.

> >

> > I do see them in WvW from time to time during off hours, when the population is much lower, with fewer encounters and mostly smaller scale fights.

> > I got no idea really how to fight them if they spam immobilize + pistol whip stun and evade while whipping.

> >

> > But thanks for the info. That explains why they have been so rarely seen although personally I fear thieves that run this build the most when on my Necro.

>

> Well you can fight them, but Necro will have a hard time doing so.

> The Pistol Whip casting animation is Interruptable, if you can try to hard CC the Thief when his/hers character model is raising the hand in a wide swing-like animation from left to right. If you can't, at least you know when to dodge.

> You can blow Thief to kitten if you time your Shroud 5th skill (assuming you run Reaper). I'd suggest using it when you know that Thief already dodged several times so you are not going to miss that.

> Regarding the Immobilize, I don't really know what to do against this one. Unless he/she is running Bandits Defense and/or Basilisk Venom or Impact Strike then you might try to use Break Stun skills, but I really don't think that any Thief is not running at least one of the above mentioned and you need to Break those much more importantly.

> Some good Necros I know say that exiting shroud more often can help, so you have enough Life force to enter shroud while being Immobilized, etc.

> Also if they use Pistol Whip on you and you manage to break the Stun _do not_ run to the sides but instead forward -> in the direction that Thief is facing, cause Pistol Whip does the dmg on the sides, too. Imagine the dmg radius like a half-circle sort of like letter "**C**". You are on top of it.

> But general rule to beat a Thief is to learn the Evade frames to land hard-CCs and to predict the usage of Steal. Believe me, most of them _will_ use it immediately as they get within Range, mostly indicated by them doing some skill attack animation while being far away from you, cause we all know why =D

>

> By the way I am so sorry for the long posts =D

 

It has been very helpful. Thank you =)

[Geiir.7603]

It can work in sPvP, but you'll have a hard time in WvW. I always go with Bound as I gain access to stealth then and can do some sick combos with Pulmanory Impact (trait).