Feanor.2358 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said: > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said: > > > > > > For all we know CC checks them in his off time which doesn’t take or devote any resources from the game. > > > > > > > > > > LOL, you think QA and CC work off the clock.. how cute. > > > > > > > > > > This might be your hobby, but it is their job. Never forget that. > > > > > > > > > > Also,, do you use a meter? > > > > > > > > > > > > > For one CC has never said he works on it as a project for Anet or if he does it as a courtesy so Players have a reliable compliant program, so like I said for all we know he could do it in his time off(quite a few game Devs did projects like that, wow Devs, Skyrim Devs, etc), especially if Anet doesn’t let him do it on their time, but hey they might let him do it on their time, we don’t know, so it’s better to not make Assumptions and we all know the saying about Assumptions. > > > > > > > > Do I use Meters? Not in a while, it’s still installed, but I have been focusing on PvP where Meters are next to useless and detrimental. > > > > > > > > So please come up with some real points that don’t rely on pure speculation and assumptions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Funny that you mention PvP. As OP mentioned, there already is DPS meter in game, it's used exactly for PvP so there is no need to create it from scratch. Thank you for providing good argument FOR implementing anet supported in game DPS meter! > > > > Funny that’s not a DPS meter that’s a damage recap, it shows total at end of match not actually DPS or do w need to explain what DPS stands for? And it doesn’t alert anything mid game or at a moments notice but hey pesky facts are pesky, plus That recap is highly inadequate since it doesn’t pull who did what mechanics at what specific time who failed mechanics etc. you know things that the already compliant and approved for use Combat Meter does. > > > > DPS stands for damage per second, but.. the PvP system is more in-depth, as it not only reads how much damage everyone is doing at each moment (DPS) it is also keeps a running total of how much damage has been done by each player, (Overall contribution), In Short, it's already a more advanced feature then the current 'Put a graph on the combat feed" that you are using. > > And I have arcDPS, it does not do any of that of that stuff, it just shows who is doing the most Damage at the current moment. > Arc does a lot more that that. Up to showing your skill uses, interrupts, and much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Joxer.6024 said: > (Wait, edit that last bit.... I don't get the part about a 3rd party stealing your account info, that is just odd thinking.) The program has no access to sensitive information, because it is encrypted. It cannot steal anything important, like your password or your credit card info so don't worry about it. Not even the developers can see that, that's why for example, they never tell you your password if you forget, because they do NOT know it, instead they reset it so you make a new one. Now if ArcDPS can get access to that encrypted information that not even the developers have access to, then I guess he's done some serious magic there, should go work for the NSA. There is NOTHING it can "steal" to harm you but I guess this is where this discussion has devolved into now, a constant stream of lies and misinformation. It's like trying to convince my mom that it's safe to use credit cards to buy things online all over again... been there done that ages ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Joxer.6024 said: > > (Wait, edit that last bit.... I don't get the part about a 3rd party stealing your account info, that is just odd thinking.) > > The program has no access to sensitive information as for now, nobody can guarantee it won't happen in the future as deltaconnected is not part of our agreement with arenanet and the company refuses any responsibility if it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > as for now, nobody can guarantee it won't happen in the future as deltaconnected is not part of our agreement with arenanet and the company refuses any responsibility if it happens The program cannot get access to sensitive information because that information is encrypted. No matter if deltaconnected wants to or not he cannot access that data. Even if he wanted to harm people and steal their accounts, he simply can't. Only way to steal sensitive data is if he put a field on the program and asked you to type the information yourself, but that's on you, not him, if you fail so much and freely give your information like that. There is no reason for Anet to take responsibility for account theft, since it's impossible to happen. Not to mention each version of ArcDPS is previewed by Anet before they give their OK, especially if it contains new features. So there IS a guarantee that it won't happen in the future and this witch hunt gets tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > as for now, nobody can guarantee it won't happen in the future as deltaconnected is not part of our agreement with arenanet and the company refuses any responsibility if it happens > > The program cannot get access to sensitive information because that information is encrypted. No matter if deltaconnected wants to or not he cannot access that data. Even if he wanted to harm people and steal their accounts, he simply can't. > Only way to steal sensitive data is if he put a field on the program and asked you to type the information yourself, but that's on you, not him, if you fail so much and freely give your information like that. There is no reason for Anet to take responsibility for account theft, since it's impossible to happen. > Not to mention each version of ArcDPS is previewed by Anet before they give their OK, especially if it contains new features. > > So there IS a guarantee that it won't happen in the future and this witch hunt gets tiresome. Unfortunately there is not. ArenaNet consciously refuses taking responsibility exactly because they can't guarantee my important data, like credit card, won't be stolen by this app. Also, as OP mentioned, we already have dps meter in game. Both in pvp and as a dev tool. This means the main instrument is already developed, all it needs is implementation in whole game. This should be a matter of security, privacy and respect towards paying customers to go away from 3rd party hacks and actually provide tools for the content they introduced and the community they baited into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > ArenaNet consciously refuses taking responsibility exactly because they can't guarantee my important data, like credit card, won't be stolen by this app. And I'm telling you this is garbage, stop spreading misinformation. There is no way for ArcDPS to steal "important data", that's not up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > ArenaNet consciously refuses taking responsibility exactly because they can't guarantee my important data, like credit card, won't be stolen by this app. > > And I'm telling you this is garbage, stop spreading misinformation. There is no way for ArcDPS to steal "important data", that's not up for debate. There is no guarantee it won't at some point. And before CC reacts people will download it and data will be stolen and they can't revert it. This applies to every 3rd party tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > There is no guarantee it won't at some point. And before CC reacts people will download it and data will be stolen and they can't revert it. This applies to every 3rd party tool. I know you have zero understanding of computers, software, networks or anything tech related so just stop spreading lies and non-sense. There is a guarantee, and there is zero chance of the program stealing your sensitive data, unless you are a complete idiot. Other than that stay in your scared world :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > There is no guarantee it won't at some point. And before CC reacts people will download it and data will be stolen and they can't revert it. This applies to every 3rd party tool. > > I know you have zero understanding of computers, software, networks or anything tech related so just stop spreading lies and non-sense. There is a guarantee, and there is zero chance of the program stealing your sensitive data, unless you are a complete idiot. Other than that stay in your scared world :) If there was, Anet's policy wouldn't contain "we take no responsibility for any damage caused by this tool". Pretty telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethorus.9231 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Wow this is still ongoing. I doubt, you'll even get a dev reply here. They won't develop a DPS meter tool. It's easier for you to see the Trade function enable than a dps meter. Not even WoW has an official inbuilt dps meter and it's been running for what, 11 years? Game Devs know how feature like these can hurt the game if made official. The decision to use and create these tools falls to the community and how they want to play the game. Also, ArcDPS won't steal your credit card for being a .dll overlay tool in your Guild Wars 2 folder, while at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > There is no guarantee it won't at some point. And before CC reacts people will download it and data will be stolen and they can't revert it. This applies to every 3rd party tool. > > > > I know you have zero understanding of computers, software, networks or anything tech related so just stop spreading lies and non-sense. There is a guarantee, and there is zero chance of the program stealing your sensitive data, unless you are a complete idiot. Other than that stay in your scared world :) > > If there was, Anet's policy wouldn't contain "we take no responsibility for any damage caused by this tool". Pretty telling. That's because it's not THEIR tool, pretty telling. Now stop trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > There is no guarantee it won't at some point. And before CC reacts people will download it and data will be stolen and they can't revert it. This applies to every 3rd party tool. > > > > > > I know you have zero understanding of computers, software, networks or anything tech related so just stop spreading lies and non-sense. There is a guarantee, and there is zero chance of the program stealing your sensitive data, unless you are a complete idiot. Other than that stay in your scared world :) > > > > If there was, Anet's policy wouldn't contain "we take no responsibility for any damage caused by this tool". Pretty telling. > > That's because it's not THEIR tool, pretty telling. Now stop trolling Could say the same about you, but it's against forum rules and I deeply suggest you stop this type of behaviour and vocabulary here. It's not their tool, they do not support it but they allowed it to be used officialy with their game. They do take responsibility for any damage it causes unless they don't really check teh tool for compliance and possible risks, making it pretty hot case for our account security. This whole discussion and all the problems already caused by arc and other tools and any future problems of this nature would be prevented by implementing build in dps meter and forbidding any 3rd party tools outside of overlays not interfering with the client. > @Sethorus.9231 said: > Wow this is still ongoing. I doubt, you'll even get a dev reply here. They won't develop a DPS meter tool. It's easier for you to see the Trade function enable than a dps meter. Not even WoW has an official inbuilt dps meter and it's been running for what, 11 years? Game Devs know how feature like these can hurt the game if made official. The decision to use and create these tools falls to the community and how they want to play the game. Game also never supported raid content until people complained about it so much anet allowed it. I see nothing wrong in voicing concerns and giving developers feedback about account security and community problems with current implementation of faulty policy and tools allowed by it. > @Sethorus.9231 said: > Also, ArcDPS won't steal your credit card for being a .dll overlay tool in your Guild Wars 2 folder, while at it. It's not just overlay. It hacks game memory. Literally. One update is enough to make it steal more data than just combat numbers. And before anet reacts my card may be stolen. And Anet takes no responsibility when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > It's not just overlay. It hacks game memory. Literally. One update is enough to make it steal more data than just combat numbers. And before anet reacts my card may be stolen. And Anet takes no responsibility when it happens. Stop spreading this non-sense. Your credit card information and your password are encrypted, ArcDPS can read them, but they are still encrypted so useless. It cannot steal your sensitive data, that's an impossibility, the reason Anet takes no responsibility is because it's not their tool and that wording is expected of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > It's not just overlay. It hacks game memory. Literally. One update is enough to make it steal more data than just combat numbers. And before anet reacts my card may be stolen. And Anet takes no responsibility when it happens. > > Stop spreading this non-sense. Your credit card information and your password are encrypted, ArcDPS can read them, but they are still encrypted so useless. It cannot steal your sensitive data, that's an impossibility, the reason Anet takes no responsibility is because it's not their tool and that wording is expected of them Not even that, probably. There's no reason your client should have your credit card data, even in encrypted form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > It's not just overlay. It hacks game memory. Literally. One update is enough to make it steal more data than just combat numbers. And before anet reacts my card may be stolen. And Anet takes no responsibility when it happens. > > ArcDPS can read them exactly and any encryption can be broken, this tool is security breach, actually any tool can be that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > It's not just overlay. It hacks game memory. Literally. One update is enough to make it steal more data than just combat numbers. And before anet reacts my card may be stolen. And Anet takes no responsibility when it happens. > > > > Stop spreading this non-sense. Your credit card information and your password are encrypted, ArcDPS can read them, but they are still encrypted so useless. It cannot steal your sensitive data, that's an impossibility, the reason Anet takes no responsibility is because it's not their tool and that wording is expected of them > > Not even that, probably. There's no reason your client should have your credit card data, even in encrypted form. That's also true. And to reiterate, reading the memory doesn't give you access to usable personal/sensitive data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltaconnected.4058 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well. If Blizzard hasn't committed to this in almost 13 years what makes you think ANet will (ignoring the official statement that it's not even on the table)? Maybe I'm an unusual developer, but I've noticed that most of my decisions are based on my own usage habits. Extending that, if you want ANet to create something, it'd likely be created to what ANet wants and not necessarily what the raiding/metrics community wants. So while you think that it would let players "get to control who sees what" there is absolutely no guarantee that would happen. Nor is there a guarantee it would provide the same level of detail I do in combat logging. > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > as for now, nobody can guarantee it won't happen in the future as deltaconnected is not part of our agreement with arenanet and the company refuses any responsibility if it happens > > The program cannot get access to sensitive information because that information is encrypted. No matter if deltaconnected wants to or not he cannot access that data. Even if he wanted to harm people and steal their accounts, he simply can't. > Only way to steal sensitive data is if he put a field on the program and asked you to type the information yourself, but that's on you, not him, if you fail so much and freely give your information like that. There is no reason for Anet to take responsibility for account theft, since it's impossible to happen. > Not to mention each version of ArcDPS is previewed by Anet before they give their OK, especially if it contains new features. > > So there IS a guarantee that it won't happen in the future and this witch hunt gets tiresome. Any auto-fill field you save in your browser is saved effectively in plaintext. The browser has to be able to read it somehow and it certainly won't be keeping an infinitely long list of how each site stores the intermediate values before sending them off. Similarly to how running within the permission scope of the game client lets me do anything the game client can, running an application within the scope of a user on the machine lets me do anything the user can. Meaning every application you run can read out every saved form whenever it wants. Extracting the email/password combo from the client is no exception, it'd just require code targeted at the client instead of at your browser. While I keep communications open, there is no verification or approval for each build. In terms of new features I use my own judgement on what Chris would consider ok, and in the cases where there's even a fragment of doubt, shoot him a message. Besides that, they go straight from VS to my download server. Expecting him to disassemble builds multiple times a week and say with any sort of confidence that they don't contain any potentially malicious intent just isn't reasonable. > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Joxer.6024 said: > > (Wait, edit that last bit.... I don't get the part about a 3rd party stealing your account info, that is just odd thinking.) > > To explain this. When you download the program, you give it free access to your computer, all your firewalls, anti-Maleware, and anti-Viris programs go out the window, because **you** gave the program full permissions and access to your computer, so, it could data-mine your computer, and no only could you not stop it, you would have no idea what it was doing, after all.. data sent could be hidden in the fact that it is reading the combat log and processing the information. > > Anet is not responsible for what any 3rd party program does to your personal system, so, if the program access all your personal information, IE: online banking, Anet is not liable in the slightest. > > The only thing Anet has said, is that this program Cannot access someone else's personal information THROUGH the game client.. any other way, or accessing anything else, of course is not Anet's responsibility. > > So, you are banking the entire safety of your system, on someone you know nothing about, and is under no obligation to protect or respect your privacy. > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > ArenaNet consciously refuses taking responsibility exactly because they can't guarantee my important data, like credit card, won't be stolen by this app. > > > > And I'm telling you this is garbage, stop spreading misinformation. There is no way for ArcDPS to steal "important data", that's not up for debate. > > There is no guarantee it won't at some point. And before CC reacts people will download it and data will be stolen and they can't revert it. This applies to every 3rd party tool. I understand both of you have zero trust in me and will continue to use "invasive 3rd party spyware" whenever possible alongside mentions of arcdps, and that's your prerogative, but I can't help but ask: what made you instantly trust the browser you use to post these comments? Or the OS on which you run the browser? Or the drivers that you download? Or any of the other software you run? And for the open source applications, did you review the source yourself, or simply trust that someone else would have? How do you know someone didn't find a critical exploit to keep to themselves while giving it a public ok? Did you compile it yourself or did you trust that the image on distribution was authentic? > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > This whole discussion and all the problems already caused by arc and other tools and any future problems of this nature would be prevented by implementing build in dps meter and forbidding any 3rd party tools outside of overlays not interfering with the client. ....what? Do you not know that the 3rd party overlay is running code within the scope of the client process? Which makes it no different at all from the 3rd party combat meter? If you're going to argue "give us 1st party combat meter" with a premise of "software can't be trusted", don't forget to apply that to all software. Otherwise your argument may as well be "wahhh I don't like combat meters". > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > It's not just overlay. It hacks game memory. Literally. One update is enough to make it steal more data than just combat numbers. And before anet reacts my card may be stolen. And Anet takes no responsibility when it happens. I can't steal your combat numbers if they were never yours in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @deltaconnected.4058 said: > While I keep communications open, there is no verification or approval for each build. Security breach plain and simple confirmed by arcdps developer himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @deltaconnected.4058 said: > If you're going to argue "give us 1st party combat meter" with a premise of "software can't be trusted", don't forget to apply that to all software. Otherwise your argument may as well be "wahhh I don't like combat meters". With all honesty, that's all his argument ever was. All the talk about "stealing", "spyware" and "security" were poor attempts to veil it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joxer.6024 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 How do we get this closed? this isn't healthy in any form as whenever someone starts up with security breaches and all that crap people get scared and will leave the game. Again, not healthy. SO hello Mr. Forum Man/Woman....can we shut this down as it has truly gone to the ugly side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Joxer.6024 said: > How do we get this closed? this isn't healthy in any form as whenever someone starts up with security breaches and all that crap people get scared and will leave the game. Again, not healthy. SO hello Mr. Forum Man/Woman....can we shut this down as it has truly gone to the ugly side? Since arc dev admitted that multiple builds are not investigated upon release, there is literally no supervision whether or not this tool is safe to use. This is something very important for players to know which CC never mentioned when allowing this tool. This is serious, considering potential risks and refusal of responsibility on game developer side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRandomGuy.7246 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Anet losing their entire database to ~~russian~~ hackers is far more likely scenario that a known tool developer exchanging his reputation for a few credit cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > Anet losing their entire database to ~~russian~~ hackers is far more likely scenario that a known tool developer exchanging his reputation for a few credit cards. They are responsible to secure the game and our data against such attacks. In case of Arc they do not take any responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > Anet losing their entire database to ~~russian~~ hackers is far more likely scenario that a known tool developer exchanging his reputation for a few credit cards. > > They are responsible to secure the game and our data against such attacks. In case of Arc they do not take any responsibility. Neither they do with Reshade, the radial mounts menu or any other 3rd party add-on. And I don't see anybody making a fuss about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRandomGuy.7246 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > Anet losing their entire database to ~~russian~~ hackers is far more likely scenario that a known tool developer exchanging his reputation for a few credit cards. > > They are responsible to secure the game and our data against such attacks. Their responsibility does not protect your data from leaking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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