Anet.. can you make a DPS meter?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > Anet losing their entire database to ~~russian~~ hackers is far more likely scenario that a known tool developer exchanging his reputation for a few credit cards.

> >

> > They are responsible to secure the game and our data against such attacks. In case of Arc they do not take any responsibility.

>

> Neither they do with Reshade, the radial mounts menu or any other 3rd party add-on. And I don't see anybody making a fuss about them.

 

It's good time to start talking about it. However, this thread is about DPS meter and talking about other tools here would be breaking forum rules and simply not classy. If you want to talk about tools you mentioned, feel free to create new thread, I'll happily join you with the discussion.

 

Now, to wrap it all up as many of you forgot what this thread is about, OP suggests creating built in DPS meter, a SAFE solution for current risks involved in using highly demanded tool. It's already in game, as a dev tool and built in pvp systems. What is needed here is will and minimal responsibility on Anet's side to provide accurate tools for the people they invited to the game 2 years ago with the release of raid content.

[Feanor.2358]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > Anet losing their entire database to ~~russian~~ hackers is far more likely scenario that a known tool developer exchanging his reputation for a few credit cards.

> > >

> > > They are responsible to secure the game and our data against such attacks. In case of Arc they do not take any responsibility.

> >

> > Neither they do with Reshade, the radial mounts menu or any other 3rd party add-on. And I don't see anybody making a fuss about them.

>

> It's good time to start talking about it. However, this thread is about DPS meter and talking about other tools here would be breaking forum rules and simply not classy. If you want to talk about tools you mentioned, feel free to create new thread, I'll happily join you with the discussion.

>

> Now, to wrap it all up as many of you forgot what this thread is about, OP suggests creating built in DPS meter, a SAFE solution for current risks involved in using highly demanded tool. It's already in game, as a dev tool and built in pvp systems. What is needed here is will and minimal responsibility on Anet's side to provide accurate tools for the people they invited to the game 2 years ago with the release of raid content.

 

tl;dr: It doesn't suit me hence it's irrelevant. That's not how reasoning works. Nothing is needed, really. Everything is fine as it is.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

> > > > > Anet losing their entire database to ~~russian~~ hackers is far more likely scenario that a known tool developer exchanging his reputation for a few credit cards.

> > > >

> > > > They are responsible to secure the game and our data against such attacks. In case of Arc they do not take any responsibility.

> > >

> > > Neither they do with Reshade, the radial mounts menu or any other 3rd party add-on. And I don't see anybody making a fuss about them.

> >

> > It's good time to start talking about it. However, this thread is about DPS meter and talking about other tools here would be breaking forum rules and simply not classy. If you want to talk about tools you mentioned, feel free to create new thread, I'll happily join you with the discussion.

> >

> > Now, to wrap it all up as many of you forgot what this thread is about, OP suggests creating built in DPS meter, a SAFE solution for current risks involved in using highly demanded tool. It's already in game, as a dev tool and built in pvp systems. What is needed here is will and minimal responsibility on Anet's side to provide accurate tools for the people they invited to the game 2 years ago with the release of raid content.

>

> tl;dr: It doesn't suit me hence it's irrelevant. That's not how reasoning works. Nothing is needed, really. Everything is fine as it is.

 

This whole thread is a discussion why it isn't. I can see you do not agree with OP, that's your choice, you are entitled to your opinion. However posting "Everything is fine as it is" brings nothing new to the discussion so my request would be there is no reason to repeat same statements over and over again. It's already been discussed. Anyway, thank you for your time. Following 6-page thread must have come with big effort from you and I appreciate it.

[Feanor.2358]

Using dual standards to "prove" your opinion brings nothing constructive as well.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> Using dual standards to "prove" your opinion brings nothing constructive as well.

 

Please focus on the topic. I have yet to see why providing built in dps meter is bad thing.

[STIHL.2489]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > ArenaNet consciously refuses taking responsibility exactly because they can't guarantee my important data, like credit card, won't be stolen by this app.

>

> And I'm telling you this is garbage, stop spreading misinformation. There is no way for ArcDPS to steal "important data", that's not up for debate.

 

LOL, of course there is, maybe not your GW2 data though the GW2 client itself, but nothing is stopping it from reading saved passwords on your browser, or logging keystrokes. really, do you honestly think that the person who can build a DPS meter better then anything Anet could make, can't make a halfway decent worm?

[Halbarz.3854]

DPS meters as it is being used at the moment should not be in this game.

Plenty of times I see people abuse it or even not understanding it.

 

My gf is rather casual in the game and might not have the latest build that does the most damage yet we are able to do all t4 fractals no problem.

But I have seen it several times that someone starts crying in chat about her dps.

People saying that DPS meters do not lead to elitism are right, as it's already there but a DPS meter makes many people just act likes *ssholes even more.

Anet should just say Yes or No to all 3th party add-ons.

Also the do not join the meta groups - often they join your group and start bashing around :)

 

_To be honest I am very disappointed in ArenaNet that they allowed this for casual content. _

It should be raid only (see below suggestion)

 

**My suggestion would be:**

- In guild halls add golems that you can activate to start tracker your dps (yes it's a 1st party DPS meter) but limited to location and just to you / your guild since this could be nice for raiding.

- Anet makes a first party DPS meter that only works in raids.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > Using dual standards to "prove" your opinion brings nothing constructive as well.

>

> Please focus on the topic. I have yet to see why providing built in dps meter is bad thing.

 

It isn't necessarily bad, aside from wasting dev time for achieving an effect that already exists. It's your reasoning to why a built-in meter should exist that is flawed and I'm critiquing.

[Joxer.6024]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > ArenaNet consciously refuses taking responsibility exactly because they can't guarantee my important data, like credit card, won't be stolen by this app.

> >

> > And I'm telling you this is garbage, stop spreading misinformation. There is no way for ArcDPS to steal "important data", that's not up for debate.

>

> LOL, of course there is, maybe not your GW2 data though the GW2 client itself, but nothing is stopping it from reading saved passwords on your browser, or logging keystrokes. really, do you honestly think that the person who can build a DPS meter better then anything Anet could make, can't make a halfway decent worm?

 

Just OMG! So whats stopping the browser you are using from doing the same thing? Or guess what, your actually anti-virus program, because yes they are written by PEOPLE, and have in the past been the subject of hacking. So, at what point do you trust and why? Sheesh, enough with the tin foil hat comments already. As mentioned many many times, no MMO has a built in dps meter, its just not a well spent use of resources. If ANET went crazy and put one in, then great, if not, move on and go pew-pew.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > Using dual standards to "prove" your opinion brings nothing constructive as well.

> >

> > Please focus on the topic. I have yet to see why providing built in dps meter is bad thing.

>

> It isn't necessarily bad, aside from wasting dev time for achieving an effect that already exists. It's your reasoning to why a built-in meter should exist that is flawed and I'm critiquing.

 

That's okay, I think we all should be allowed to speak our minds. I'm not convinced but I accept you have different opinion.

 

About "wasting" resources. It's not as bad as you may think. DPS meter is already in game, as a dev tool and implemented as background, hidden script in PvP.

[STIHL.2489]

> @deltaconnected.4058 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> I understand both of you have zero trust in me and will continue to use "invasive 3rd party spyware" whenever possible alongside mentions of arcdps, and that's your prerogative, but I can't help but ask: what made you instantly trust the browser you use to post these comments? Or the OS on which you run the browser? Or the drivers that you download? Or any of the other software you run? And for the open source applications, did you review the source yourself, or simply trust that someone else would have? How do you know someone didn't find a critical exploit to keep to themselves while giving it a public ok? Did you compile it yourself or did you trust that the image on distribution was authentic?

 

First off, it's not personal. Nothing against you directly.

 

Secondly, that is like asking me why I would trust using my credit card at Walmart, and not give it to some random vendor selling roses on the street corner. Sure the person selling roses might be a great honest trustworthy person, looking to make a legit living, so why won't you give them them your credit card and buy some assuming you wanted the roses to start with?

 

Wouldn't it seem pretty audacious for them to ask you "Why do you trust your card to Walmart an not to me" but that is exactly what you are asking me.

 

So tell me, why would you trust using your credit card at Walmart, and not some random street vendor?

 

Again.. not personal. Nothing against you, directly..

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> About "wasting" resources. It's not as bad as you may think. DPS meter is already in game, as a dev tool and implemented as background, hidden script in PvP.

 

Which doesn't even have a tiny fraction of the functionality. The pvp script only shows damage done and healing done (that are relevant to pve), everything else is essentially useless for pve.

It doesn't show rotations, it doesn't show a time graph that shows how dps goes up and down relative to time (and boss phase), it doesn't show which skill does what kind of damage, it doesn't show boon and buff up-time, really the tool we already have doesn't do anything useful.

It doesn't even show the stats of other people! Only some "you did 51% of the group damage" useless information that tells nothing.

But more importantly, it doesn't export anything, it doesn't interact with the file system to create useful files for later usage. It doesn't generate logs that you can upload to GW2Raidar, or any other website to parse those logs and get some actually useful data.

Golem and PVP meters are both completely useless.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > About "wasting" resources. It's not as bad as you may think. DPS meter is already in game, as a dev tool and implemented as background, hidden script in PvP.

>

> Which doesn't even have a tiny fraction of the functionality. The pvp script only shows damage done and healing done (that are relevant to pve), everything else is essentially useless for pve.

> It doesn't show rotations, it doesn't show a time graph that shows how dps goes up and down relative to time (and boss phase), it doesn't show which skill does what kind of damage, it doesn't show boon and buff up-time, really the tool we already have doesn't do anything useful.

> It doesn't even show the stats of other people! Only some "you did 51% of the group damage" useless information that tells nothing.

> But more importantly, it doesn't export anything, it doesn't interact with the file system to create useful files for later usage. It doesn't generate logs that you can upload to GW2Raidar, or any other website to parse those logs and get some actually useful data.

> Golem and PVP meters are both completely useless.

 

as for every part of the game there is room for improvement, you have to start somewhere and pvp dps meter is great way to start creating something good and safe for every gw2 player

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> as for every part of the game there is room for improvement, you have to start somewhere and pvp dps meter is great way to start creating something good and safe for every gw2 player

 

Maybe you didn't understand what I wrote. Your comment:

> About "wasting" resources. It's not as bad as you may think.

Is completely off target. The pvp meter has less than 0.1% of the functionality so it WILL be a huge waste of resources to create it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @deltaconnected.4058 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > Seriously, this whole 3rd party thing is for the birds, if someone can make a DPS meter in their home, on their spare time, for free, you all can make a great one for the game that everyone can enjoy. Since you all made it clear that DPS meters are allowed,m why not go ahead and just make one for Raids and Fractals, it's not like you don't already do this for PvP with top scores for Healing, Damage, Etc... so.. just lets just make this happen, maybe give rewards for Top DPS in Fractals or something as well.

>

> If Blizzard hasn't committed to this in almost 13 years what makes you think ANet will (ignoring the official statement that it's not even on the table)? Maybe I'm an unusual developer, but I've noticed that most of my decisions are based on my own usage habits. Extending that, if you want ANet to create something, it'd likely be created to what ANet wants and not necessarily what the raiding/metrics community wants. So while you think that it would let players "get to control who sees what" there is absolutely no guarantee that would happen. Nor is there a guarantee it would provide the same level of detail I do in combat logging.

 

This is a great question, and I hope I answer it for you well enough. For starters, Anet is not Blizzard, honestly their games and designs are so different they are almost incomparable, beyond being MMO's in the lose term, they have nothing much in common.

 

With that said, when WoW came out, "Raids" were a fairly new concept, at least, new in the way that WoW put them out, as a lot of features that would arise would in many ways be 'groundbreaking', thus such things like DPS meters were for the most part a new addition to MMO culture. Thus, It stands to reason that since it was a part of the way Raids in WoW were handled, Blizzard had little to no need to change what was working.

 

Hence the expression, "If it ain't broke"

 

But some things were in fact broken, as such, many add-ons and 3rd party software did become features because that is what players wanted, needed, and in some cases were so common the game itself was designed with people using them, other programs became banned and blocked (which we have already happen here with Anet)

 

But lets get real, That era is passed, It was cute when the Originator of "Raids" as we know them today, allows itself to remain a throwback to the times of "3rd party standard features" and still encourages 3rd party software for what should at this point in MMO progression be an inherent part of any MMO with a Raid.

 

In Conclusion, When it comes to Anet not putting in a DSP meter, something like 10 years after WoW made them pretty much a known thing, it's far past the time when they can use "We expected someone else to make that" as an excuse, it's common knowledge by any developer that DPS meters are a part of Raiding, as such, Putting in a Raid and not Putting in a coinciding Meter to go with it, comes across as their work being sloppy and half done at best.

 

Its not cute.. It's no a homage to WoW.. It's just bad development at this point.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > Using dual standards to "prove" your opinion brings nothing constructive as well.

> > >

> > > Please focus on the topic. I have yet to see why providing built in dps meter is bad thing.

> >

> > It isn't necessarily bad, aside from wasting dev time for achieving an effect that already exists. It's your reasoning to why a built-in meter should exist that is flawed and I'm critiquing.

>

> That's okay, I think we all should be allowed to speak our minds. I'm not convinced but I accept you have different opinion.

>

> About "wasting" resources. It's not as bad as you may think. DPS meter is already in game, as a dev tool and implemented as background, hidden script in PvP.

 

Yeah, I know. But it's different when you need to make it accessible for users. You need to make interface which works both functionally and stylistically, and you need to support it. It's not that much, but it's something.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > Using dual standards to "prove" your opinion brings nothing constructive as well.

> > > >

> > > > Please focus on the topic. I have yet to see why providing built in dps meter is bad thing.

> > >

> > > It isn't necessarily bad, aside from wasting dev time for achieving an effect that already exists. It's your reasoning to why a built-in meter should exist that is flawed and I'm critiquing.

> >

> > That's okay, I think we all should be allowed to speak our minds. I'm not convinced but I accept you have different opinion.

> >

> > About "wasting" resources. It's not as bad as you may think. DPS meter is already in game, as a dev tool and implemented as background, hidden script in PvP.

>

> Yeah, I know. But it's different when you need to make it accessible for users. You need to make interface which works both functionally and stylistically, and you need to support it. It's not that much, but it's something.

 

Its even used on golem. Data is there, engine is there, all you need is making it visible. Its probably less work than making new armor

[Feanor.2358]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > > Using dual standards to "prove" your opinion brings nothing constructive as well.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please focus on the topic. I have yet to see why providing built in dps meter is bad thing.

> > > >

> > > > It isn't necessarily bad, aside from wasting dev time for achieving an effect that already exists. It's your reasoning to why a built-in meter should exist that is flawed and I'm critiquing.

> > >

> > > That's okay, I think we all should be allowed to speak our minds. I'm not convinced but I accept you have different opinion.

> > >

> > > About "wasting" resources. It's not as bad as you may think. DPS meter is already in game, as a dev tool and implemented as background, hidden script in PvP.

> >

> > Yeah, I know. But it's different when you need to make it accessible for users. You need to make interface which works both functionally and stylistically, and you need to support it. It's not that much, but it's something.

>

> Its even used on golem. Data is there, engine is there, all you need is making it visible. Its probably less work than making new armor

 

It's comparable. Both would need some artwork. The armor would need a game designer to create or modify the relevant recipes, loot tables, etc. The meter would need a programmer to create the UI. The problem isn't gathering the data, that's the easy part. The hard part is presenting it to users in some decent way. We programmers can work with simply printing the numbers to the screen. That's not user-friendly though and no developer would give something as raw and unpolished to its customers.

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

> @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights. (Where I have to move out of aoe, stop to revive someone, get downed and wait for someone to revive me, use a cc skill that lowers my overall dps because it's a signet that boosts my dps when on passive etc.) And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

>

> This doesn't mean I don't want a DPS meter, but not having access to an in-game one that is usable during fights is just kitten. They added raids, now they should make DPS meters available for all. Or just ban all use of 3rd party software, so everyone is on an equal footing.

 

Agreed. The state of affairs around 3rd party software for GW2 is frightening enough for me to stay far, far away from all of it.

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

Something I would want from an innate meter is to have to agree to share my DPS with someone else. That kind of sharing and comparing of performance data is something I only want to do in a guild environment, where there is incentive to remain civil with each other and a return on investment as we all try to improve together.

 

Getting hassled by some Type A control freak who I'll never see again for doing sub-golem (or just sub-him) DPS, while trying to grind out my fractal dailies in a PUG, is not my idea of a good time. And I conscientously use "ermagerd meta" builds and rotations like a good little sheeple, so this isn't insecurity about my performance talking - I really, honestly don't want to be hassled.

 

Having a consent dialogue would also help people segregate each other for more harmonious PUGs. "T4 dailies pots/food/tracking" and "T4 dailies no tracking" could become listings in LFG and we would all be happier. Except #5 in the first group... unless the meter also tracked healing/boonsharing/breakbar DPS/evaded DPS. There are so many more mechanics to combat in this game that are more important than "numbers more bigger".

 

Actually, you know what? I think I've talked myself around to not wanting a DPS meter after all. Leave it out, ban the only 3rd party one left, I don't care. If you want a tank-and-spank bar graph opera you can go play WoW with Recount on.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Sister Saxifrage.7361" said:

> Something I would want from an innate meter is to have to agree to share my DPS with someone else. That kind of sharing and comparing of performance data is something I only want to do in a guild environment, where there is incentive to remain civil with each other and a return on investment as we all try to improve together.

>

> Getting hassled by some Type A control freak who I'll never see again for doing sub-golem (or just sub-him) DPS, while trying to grind out my fractal dailies in a PUG, is not my idea of a good time. And I conscientously use "ermagerd meta" builds and rotations like a good little sheeple, so this isn't insecurity about my performance talking - I really, honestly don't want to be hassled.

>

> Having a consent dialogue would also help people segregate each other for more harmonious PUGs. "T4 dailies pots/food/tracking" and "T4 dailies no tracking" could become listings in LFG and we would all be happier. Except #5 in the first group... unless the meter also tracked healing/boonsharing/breakbar DPS/evaded DPS. There are so many more mechanics to combat in this game that are more important than "numbers more bigger".

>

 

Actually that would be one of the advantages of a In-House system, as it would be able to track things like.. Most Dodges, CC effects, healing, etc... and even give rewards to players with the top stats.

 

I have also made it clear that this would only be for raids and T4 Fractals, as everything else is just not worth it, IMHO.

[Kal Bhairav.6589]

I find it that people against meter are more hostile toward people using meter than other way around.

I was on T4 today.

One of the necro was doing less than 4.5k dps while Rev and condi mirrage wad pulling 18k to 23 k.

I was healing and so on.

The Rev guy mentioned something about dps and necro guy stared to become hostile righaway.

I whispered hI'm and asked him if he wanted some help, I can show u the rope.

Well he didnt sat anything.

After we finished all dallies. WE thanked eachother and necro guy says thanks for elitism.

 

That's just one of many incident.

[Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489]

> @"Kal Bhairav.6589" said:

> I find it that people against meter are more hostile toward people using meter than other way around.

> I was on T4 today.

> One of the necro was doing less than 4.5k dps while Rev and condi mirrage wad pulling 18k to 23 k.

> I was healing and so on.

> **The Rev guy mentioned something about dps** and necro guy stared to become hostile righaway.

> I whispered hI'm and asked him if he wanted some help, I can show u the rope.

> Well he didnt sat anything.

> After we finished all dallies. WE thanked eachother and necro guy says thanks for elitism.

>

> That's just one of many incident.

 

What the rev guy said is extremely relevant to your point though. If he said something about necro doing bad dps it's no wonder he/she went into defence mode. If it was a casual comment about the Mirage doing decent dps then the necro is obviously in the wrong. So unless you can quote the revenant your point is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Kaona.9105]

In the current stage of the game, a DPS meter will only take away from it. Most casual players don't care, want or need a DPS meter, its often a waste of time to get one relevant for PVP or WVW players, and very few raiders actually use it to help improve their own builds and rotations. Most raid players in fact, will instead use it to judge other players for losing damage on some fights when they need to position/dodge to survive.

 

Several players also try to force themselves to the top of the damage listing as well and consistently be the last person to cut damage when needed just to put out another few attacks. The worse of these players are not the two types i mentioned previously, but the one type of player who will zone so hard into a DPS meter that the player begins to pay little or no attention to the rest of the field of battle and either dies or takes damage that could have been easily avoided and unintentionally straining the rest of the players in the raid due to this.

 

Sure there may be players who can use these to a proper benefit, but that has a high chance of consisting of less than 1% of the total players base of the game. This means that it would have a higher chance of causing additional unneeded grieving in the game that it would not have been intended in the first place. This would end up as gross waste of resources to implement it in the first place as not many players would benefit from it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Kaona.9105 said:

> In the current stage of the game, a DPS meter will only take away from it.

 

I get what you are saying, but DPS meters are already a part of the game, they are not being added, they are already there, I am just asking for a QoL update that proves an In-game meter, so players don't need to depend on 3rd party software. It would also eliminate the divide of those that use and don't use them.. everyone would have one, and thus remove all divisions.

 

I can't change what is, I can only ask for a QoL update to make what is, better for everyone.