Scourge's identity crisis

[Coldtart.4785]

I'm finding it somewhat hard to understand just what Anet were going for with scourge. The design feels so unfocused at every level. It's name is sinister sounding, yet it was described as being a protector of the souls of the dead, in opposition to Joko. Then we have the 'guide for the lost', the ascended torch that scourge can unlock, which seems to fit the protector description but the torch skills themselves are purely for killing with more sinister sounding names and the torment condition.

 

The utilities are even less focused. They're called punishments, sinister sounding once again, yet most have actual utility and mild support effects and are very sand themed. The only connection to the punishment name is the boon corruption effect attached to every one of them, which feels tacked-on and unfitting. The only exception to all this is the elite skill, ghastly breach, which has no sand theme and is clearly a hostile spell that fits the idea of punishment.

 

Sand shades do bring some additional mild support with condition conversion and barrier, but currently these effects are hugely overshadowed by the offensive pressure from their interactions with core traits. Scourge traits follow a fairly typical elite specialisation style of having three themes: support, condition damage and boon corruption, though with some poor internal balance.

 

Overall I just can't see any cohesion in scourge's design. If it was meant to be a support build, the design has failed as it currently acts as nothing but a single-minded condition damage specialisation.

[HardRider.2980]

Tbf Necro can be a tricky class to balance.. which is why Anet hasn't gotten it right yet and thus why it's still got an identity crisis after all these years.

 

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @Coldtart.4785 said:

> I'm finding it somewhat hard to understand just what Anet were going for with scourge. The design feels so unfocused at every level. It's name is sinister sounding, yet it was described as being a protector of the souls of the dead, in opposition to Joko. Then we have the 'guide for the lost', the ascended torch that scourge can unlock, which seems to fit the protector description but the torch skills themselves are purely for killing with more sinister sounding names and the torment condition.

>

> The utilities are even less focused. They're called punishments, sinister sounding once again, yet most have actual utility and mild support effects and are very sand themed. The only connection to the punishment name is the boon corruption effect attached to every one of them, which feels tacked-on and unfitting. The only exception to all this is the elite skill, ghastly breach, which has no sand theme and is clearly a hostile spell that fits the idea of punishment.

>

> Sand shades do bring some additional mild support with condition conversion and barrier, but currently these effects are hugely overshadowed by the offensive pressure from their interactions with core traits. Scourge traits follow a fairly typical elite specialisation style of having three themes: support, condition damage and boon corruption, though with some poor internal balance.

>

> Overall I just can't see any cohesion in scourge's design. If it was meant to be a support build, the design has failed as it currently acts as nothing but a single-minded condition damage specialisation.

 

For the Sinister name relative to the "purpose" of the specilization, there is a lore reason. Scourge's were originally a group of disciples Palawa Joko (the original Scourge) taught the ways of Necromancy to, but they later rebelled and sought to change the nature of the Scourge to one of good. That seems to largely be the underlying theme of the specc as a result, skills that are at their core sinister but are on the surface also usable to protect allies. (Source for this is the Scourge Lore NPC that can be found in game outside the Bonehouse)

 

As for a purely game design focused view, you can really only use the support aspects of Scourge if you build with them as a focus, which I would consider justifiable for every profession and not just scourge. Barrier is only useful if you take healing power, the might you can generate for allies is only at its best if you take boon duration.

[Druitt.7629]

I think you need to forget about the naming of things and look at the functionality. As you note, the Torch does some nice damage -- I really like it. The Punishments punish those who dare to have boons on them, and Trail of Anguish punishes in multiple ways. Shades punish those that choose to stand in them. Actually, a lot of skills convert boons into torment and cripple, so it's not just the Punishments that punish boons. And It's actually very liberating to not have a separate shroud mode, and nice that the shade F skills emanate from the Scourge as well as any deployed shades, allowing you to operate up either close, at mid-range , or both.

 

I don't have enough experience yet to totally feel the playstyle, but it feels more liberating and it feels more like the sustain class that Necro/Reaper was supposed to be. Eliminating shroud ("second life bar") actually made is more of a sustain? Seems so to me. Anyhow, I've thumbs-up'd Amerikajinn's answer which I think covers the naming part of things: a conditions-based cult that has taken a turn towards protection.

[Zero.3871]

Identity Crisys:

-> Look Reaper that was created for Power space end up as king of condi

-> Scourge was created to support, and end up as king of doom

 

But all the 5 years since gw2 release show that anet is not able to fix this problem. they just use dice to create new skills.

finally they will kill the class and its will only be viable in wvw zergs.

 

so i enjoy it as long as possible to be viable at the moment until the next balance patch will come (maybe in 3 or 4 weeks). cheers!

[nekretaal.6485]

It looked like anet was listening to the community's demands to trade hit points for competitive DPS.

 

Unfortunately, the new spec that was created tied all of its new skills and traits to, essentially, turrets. And the pvp player base of this game hates turrets. (Especially unkillable turrets, guardian spirit weapons were one of the first things nerfed out of the game).

 

So, it was inevitable that everything connected to turrets would be nerfed to "unplayable garbage." Unfortunately for Scourge, that only leaves torch left over.

[Lexan.5930]

> @Coldtart.4785 said:

> I'm finding it somewhat hard to understand just what Anet were going for with scourge. The design feels so unfocused at every level. It's name is sinister sounding, yet it was described as being a protector of the souls of the dead, in opposition to Joko. Then we have the 'guide for the lost', the ascended torch that scourge can unlock, which seems to fit the protector description but the torch skills themselves are purely for killing with more sinister sounding names and the torment condition.

>

> The utilities are even less focused. They're called punishments, sinister sounding once again, yet most have actual utility and mild support effects and are very sand themed. The only connection to the punishment name is the boon corruption effect attached to every one of them, which feels tacked-on and unfitting. The only exception to all this is the elite skill, ghastly breach, which has no sand theme and is clearly a hostile spell that fits the idea of punishment.

>

> Sand shades do bring some additional mild support with condition conversion and barrier, but currently these effects are hugely overshadowed by the offensive pressure from their interactions with core traits. Scourge traits follow a fairly typical elite specialisation style of having three themes: support, condition damage and boon corruption, though with some poor internal balance.

>

> Overall I just can't see any cohesion in scourge's design. If it was meant to be a support build, the design has failed as it currently acts as nothing but a single-minded condition damage specialisation.

 

it would seem after todays patches that the elite spec is ment to be the scourge of necro's in general and no one else.

[Justine.6351]

> @HardRider.2980 said:

> Tbf Necro can be a tricky class to balance.. which is why Anet hasn't gotten it right yet and thus why it's still got an identity crisis after all these years.

>

 

Its because of these freaking ranged aoe on-point attacks they keep giving necromancer and its elite specs.