Is it possible for Heroes to comeback to Guild Wars 2?

[sixburn.5807]

> @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

 

> Just like this lesbian gay content people created threads about. I don't believe in it or support that stuff in real life not how I was raised, but at the same time im not here saying hey this shouldn't be here because I know it is what it is and accept all type of people in a gaming world.

 

"lesbian gay content people created threads"

Are you serious? what are you talking about? Take it a down a notch, it's a game mechanic some people want and some don't. Why would be a game like GW2 should be all manly, or not?

[tenryuta.2014]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> Bringing heroes is most likely possible, since we already have such companions in the story, but I seriously doubt trying to bring _useful_ heroes is worth the massive effort it would take. Creating an AI that knows when to properly jump, dodge and CC is probably close to impossible. Besides, this is a MMO. Find other people to play group content with.

 

copy paste HoT ai's to heroes, easy

[Alga.6498]

If would be so cool if we had '_henchmen_', but as our own characters, just like GW1 had. You were able to use a skin from your other alts as you were playing your main so they were running around, attacking etc, just like heroes did. :)

I would so much pay for this, even if the AI system will be similar to NPCs or enemies.

[dusanyu.4057]

Nah we wont be getting heroes totally different type of game than GW1 heroes have no place in it

[Endless Soul.5178]

Dunkoro can be found in the Desolation, so there's at least one Guild Wars 1 hero. ;)

[sixburn.5807]

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> Dunkoro can be found in the Desolation, so there's at least one Guild Wars 1 hero. ;)

 

just finished Open Skies a few days ago, and someone already said Dunkoro is in the game and he is indeed in the game, although a proper cameo in the story like Livia would be nice a Heart NPC is also nice.

[Cyrin.1035]

I 'd really like this. Henchies please!

[zombyturtle.5980]

This gets brought up over and over again and still noone seems to be able to give an answer on how they would make heroes work in dungeons like COE's lazer jumping puzzle and coordinated 1-4 switch/destroyed shield switches.

Noone seems to be able to give an answer on how they would work in TA up when the spider boss shoots its oneshot aoe which you must dodge or die. Do the AI always dodge perfectly, eliminating ALL challenge from that boss? Or do they not dodge and die and be useless?

Noone can tell me how they could make heroes run the mist orbs in swampland fractal or avoid the aoe in mai trin or carry the hammer in cliffside or light the torches in chaos.

 

Honestly I could list a mechanic in at least 50% of all instanced content that AI could never be able to do nomatter how hard anet tries to improve it because its designed to be done by humans not computers. The only solution would be to bypass all challenge and skip any mechanics that are too complex by autocompleting them or executing them perfectly every single time which is bad for the game and defeats the purpose of the dungeon. People just need to accept this isnt gw1 where the challenge is using skills with the right timing and managing mob aggro and realise heroes cant work here.

[Dashiva.6149]

> @"Endless Soul.5178" said:

> Dunkoro can be found in the Desolation, so there's at least one Guild Wars 1 hero. ;)

 

And Ogden and Livia :V

the Herald of Balthazar may or may not be a former henchman too!

 

Edit: I'm not interested in such a system for the open world in GW2; it is a completely different game. Could be interesting as a one-off experiment inside a Living Story instance tho.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> Honestly I could list a mechanic in at least 50% of all instanced content that AI could never be able to do nomatter how hard anet tries to improve it because its designed to be done by humans not computers. The only solution would be to bypass all challenge and skip any mechanics that are too complex by autocompleting them or executing them perfectly every single time which is bad for the game and defeats the purpose of the dungeon. People just need to accept this isnt gw1 where the challenge is using skills with the right timing and managing mob aggro and realise heroes cant work here.

 

In story content it's usually things that can be done solo with the npcs just being there for morale support, so if they allowed heroes in dungeons, all those parts that require multiple players would be made so one player works instead.

 

In CoE's laser jump, only one person would be required to use a console (obviously one on the other side), you can't expect the AI to jump.

The Spider Boss in AC would deal zero damage to the npcs, or deal much much reduced damage to them.

In Swampland you'll need to run a single wisp, and during the cannon phase of Mai Trin, the npcs would use a shield to ignore the cannons.

 

Even if they could create an AI that can handle all those mechanics it would be dumb idea anyway. Imagine if the AI was so good that it could do the CoE jumping part, but with a 80% chance of completing it. What's the point?

[Mea.5491]

-deleted- (I already posted on the 1st page, didn't know it was the same thread, rofl. I need coffee)

[STIHL.2489]

It'd a cool idea.. maybe one that GW3 might put in.

[STIHL.2489]

But since we are theory crafting this, maybe as opposed to "Hero's" you could play two of your own characters at the same time.

 

Like an In-game Dual-Box Mode. Have a Quick Swap Burton, say., "Right Alt" or some such, and you swap back and forth between the two of them.

 

While it would only apply to Dungeons, PS, an LS, not Raids or Fractals. And, I guess as opposed to just being able to summon them when you zone in or some such, put a timer on them, say.. after 3 minuets in the instance and still being short, everyone would get the option to summon one of their alts (Allies). and a list (like the portrait list in your Character select panel) would come up.. Yes it would allow people to double up on dungeon loot, but.. they are putting in twice the effort because they would need to play both characters, so.. I think that is fair.

 

I can see some issues with abuse, like some people putting up LFM's after they summoned their ally, and just 4 man the dungeon but get double loot for themselves, but.. the other people there would also need to agree with it, after all, if you don't like the situation you can just leave it.

 

Also the 3 Min timer would stop people from Zoning in and immediately summoning an Ally, which I have seen in other games.

 

Another solution would be that the Ally did not take up a party slot, so a 5 man dungeon could have 10 characters in it, controlled by 5 players, which in and of itself would be kinda cool, swapping back and forth as needed between them to get the whole thing done, or save yourself. LoL.

[Jordan.5930]

This would be so amazing, I have a lot of other toons I'd love to use as henchmen! I would much rather have heroes that I created helping, for things like my personal story instead of the original cast of characters. Even better if they could be in both dungeons and fractals!

[ReaverKane.7598]

Heroes don't make sense on this model of game. GW1 has those because it isn't really a MMORPG, it's a Coop game with towns and outposts working as lobbies.

This is a open-world-ish MMORPG with a pretty decent LFG system, guilds, and other people roaming the maps. So it's easy to find a proper group, unlike the previous iteration.

Usually you'll be able to find a group in PvE with any class/build. But of course, don't be surprised if you want to do the hardest content with a build that clearly doesn't work, or isn't useful. You're the only one to blame there if you get booted from a T4 Fractal or Raid group because you didn't do the most basic of preparations (as in get a decent class/build). Those levels of difficulty usually require higher levels of DPS or they become frustratingly slow or impossible to finish, if you can't understand and prepare for that then you honestly shouldn't be attempting those yet.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

On a gem store for 2000gems/each, yes. Then, 1000gems for different hero clothings.

 

On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

 

GW1 was very easy to solo, even on HM, with good heroes. There was no place that had much difficulty with a little exception: parts that required splitting up, those turned annoying easily in GW1 because the AI couldn't do much when movement was required. They couldn't move between points, they couldn't move away towards objectives, without specific player input and baby-sitting. Which is the main problem with GW2, a LOT of the encounters require splitting up and moving, which isn't something the AI of GW2 (or GW1) could ever do properly.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

As I stated years ago about mounts, Mercenaries will eventually come, and the hardcore m in mmo crowd will embrace them as fast as the hardcore anti mount people who are now buying overpriced mount skins.

 

Mercs will come when new players are no longer able to find groups for "abandoned" content. Right along with solo paths for dungeons and fractals. As with a lot of games already. They will come when content a player needs to do for whatever reason has hit the D list for what other players WANT to do.

 

As far as the much expressed M in MMO sentiment, in the majority of MMOs I have seen evolve away from that, Casual Grouping dies when players are no longer forced to do so, by player choice. The latest and greatest Stuff, particularly Raids, remain the content of the perma groups. Given an alternative, Merc, Hero, etc most people could care less about LFGing a 4 year old Group instance, and don't. They figure out a way to hench it.

 

As a contrast, from what I've seen, the hard core latest content "Group Pros" are the first to abandon content deemed "trivial" or "old" and are the first ones on the forums demanding more "challenging group content" when 3 month old content is now beneath them. (Funny though, in both EQs these people have zero issues farming old "group" content with a Mercenary because it's not "relevant" content". They are rarely there to help others, ever.)

 

If grouping is the "preferred" playstyle it should survive when another option is available to the average player. From what I have seen, it doesn't. Without a mechanic to force it, it becomes a lesser choice. Even the open world "participation" events here are an alternative to pug grouping and are done far more than any of the "group required" content.

 

Brad McQuade can't hold a job today. I think that speaks volumes about the old "group up or get out" sentiment common in the first wave of "big" MMOs. Companies have to provide for a far larger base.

[Angelica Dream.7103]

I loved GW1 heroes.

But on a practical side it would be a huge help. Many of HOT's Hero points need more than one to finish. Also there are massive parts in the new desert that I never even see another player to help with things.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

>

> GW1 was very easy to solo, even on HM, with good heroes. There was no place that had much difficulty with a little exception: parts that required splitting up, those turned annoying easily in GW1 because the AI couldn't do much when movement was required. They couldn't move between points, they couldn't move away towards objectives, without specific player input and baby-sitting. Which is the main problem with GW2, a LOT of the encounters require splitting up and moving, which isn't something the AI of GW2 (or GW1) could ever do properly.

 

GW1 was soloable with the right heroes, the right skills, the right knowledge of the encounters and enemies, and a plan.

Fixed your opening statement. Most games get easier if you know what you are doing. Funny how that works.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> Brad McQuade can't hold a job today. I think that speaks volumes about the old "group up or get out" sentiment common in the first wave of "big" MMOs.

 

He is very successfully crowdfunding "Pantheon, rise of the fallen"

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

> >

> > GW1 was very easy to solo, even on HM, with good heroes. There was no place that had much difficulty with a little exception: parts that required splitting up, those turned annoying easily in GW1 because the AI couldn't do much when movement was required. They couldn't move between points, they couldn't move away towards objectives, without specific player input and baby-sitting. Which is the main problem with GW2, a LOT of the encounters require splitting up and moving, which isn't something the AI of GW2 (or GW1) could ever do properly.

>

> GW1 was soloable with the right heroes, the right skills, the right knowledge of the encounters and enemies, and a plan.

> Fixed your opening statement. Most games get easier if you know what you are doing. Funny how that works.

 

Isn't that obvious? And no GW1 was really easy once you got the meta comp ready but that's beside the point.

 

That doesn't change anything I said. The AI of GW1 would be unable to do much in GW2, and the AI of GW2 wouldn't do much either. It's not something you fix with an AI. Especially in non-combat encounters. Anyone who thinks of heroes in dungeons, needs to take every encounter in every dungeon and figure out how an AI would beat it. Simple as that. Unfotunately all we read about is "I'd love to see heroes" and stop there.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > > On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

> > >

> > > GW1 was very easy to solo, even on HM, with good heroes. There was no place that had much difficulty with a little exception: parts that required splitting up, those turned annoying easily in GW1 because the AI couldn't do much when movement was required. They couldn't move between points, they couldn't move away towards objectives, without specific player input and baby-sitting. Which is the main problem with GW2, a LOT of the encounters require splitting up and moving, which isn't something the AI of GW2 (or GW1) could ever do properly.

> >

> > GW1 was soloable with the right heroes, the right skills, the right knowledge of the encounters and enemies, and a plan.

> > Fixed your opening statement. Most games get easier if you know what you are doing. Funny how that works.

>

> Isn't that obvious? And no GW1 was really easy once you got the meta comp ready but that's beside the point.

>

> That doesn't change anything I said. The AI of GW1 would be unable to do much in GW2, and the AI of GW2 wouldn't do much either. It's not something you fix with an AI. Especially in non-combat encounters. Anyone who thinks of heroes in dungeons, needs to take every encounter in every dungeon and figure out how an AI would beat it. Simple as that. Unfotunately all we read about is "I'd love to see heroes" and stop there.

 

Until PoF, as a Ranger, I was forced to drag along extremely stupid limited skill AI help for everything. How is a Hero much different for the vast majority of the game?

[DarcShriek.5829]

Please no.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > > > On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

> > > >

> > > > GW1 was very easy to solo, even on HM, with good heroes. There was no place that had much difficulty with a little exception: parts that required splitting up, those turned annoying easily in GW1 because the AI couldn't do much when movement was required. They couldn't move between points, they couldn't move away towards objectives, without specific player input and baby-sitting. Which is the main problem with GW2, a LOT of the encounters require splitting up and moving, which isn't something the AI of GW2 (or GW1) could ever do properly.

> > >

> > > GW1 was soloable with the right heroes, the right skills, the right knowledge of the encounters and enemies, and a plan.

> > > Fixed your opening statement. Most games get easier if you know what you are doing. Funny how that works.

> >

> > Isn't that obvious? And no GW1 was really easy once you got the meta comp ready but that's beside the point.

> >

> > That doesn't change anything I said. The AI of GW1 would be unable to do much in GW2, and the AI of GW2 wouldn't do much either. It's not something you fix with an AI. Especially in non-combat encounters. Anyone who thinks of heroes in dungeons, needs to take every encounter in every dungeon and figure out how an AI would beat it. Simple as that. Unfotunately all we read about is "I'd love to see heroes" and stop there.

>

> Until PoF, as a Ranger, I was forced to drag along extremely stupid limited skill AI help for everything. How is a Hero much different for the vast majority of the game?

 

That AI can jump lasers in CoE and then use the consoles with correct timing? It can gather and move the wisps in Swampland? It can help you with the bombs part of CM p2? It can avoid the pull effect of Kholer in AC?

 

That "extremely stupid" AI might've been good for random open world fights, but where it matters it's useless. Or it has overpowered reduction in damage for the pet to survive, not really good for an actual ally in a fight.

 

Don't tell me you want that stupid pet AI as your "henchman"