Is it possible for Heroes to comeback to Guild Wars 2?

[DeanBB.4268]

Are we remembering that Heroes also took their fair share of the treasure? Meaning, if you went out with 7 heroes, you could expect to get 1 drop in 8. I think a great many players would be unhappy with that.

 

"Wait. Reyna, when did you start using Kudzu?"

[Rio.4259]

> @DeanBB.4268 said:

> Are we remembering that Heroes also took their fair share of the treasure? Meaning, if you went out with 7 heroes, you could expect to get 1 drop in 8. I think a great many players would be unhappy with that.

>

> "Wait. Reyna, when did you start using Kudzu?"

 

 

I gotta admit Id be pretty impressed if a hero could craft a legendary bow. >.>

[DeanBB.4268]

> @Rio.4259 said:

> > @DeanBB.4268 said:

> > Are we remembering that Heroes also took their fair share of the treasure? Meaning, if you went out with 7 heroes, you could expect to get 1 drop in 8. I think a great many players would be unhappy with that.

> >

> > "Wait. Reyna, when did you start using Kudzu?"

>

>

> I gotta admit Id be pretty impressed if a hero could craft a legendary bow. >.>

 

Pshaw. Taking 3/4 to 7/8 of the loot, you think the Heroes Guild is lacking funds?

[Rio.4259]

As for my opinion of it, I think it would be neat. But I just don't think it could work in GW2. In GW1 the parties were limited to mainly 4 or 8. How would it work in GW2? Could we bring just one hero? Or an entire squad of 'em? >.> Plus the mechanics like jumping and dodging just wouldn't work very well.

 

...on the other hand it could be another cash cow for Anet. >.> "Random hero armor boxes", "Random hero weapon boxes"...so who knows. >.>

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > > > > On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

> > > > >

> > > > > GW1 was very easy to solo, even on HM, with good heroes. There was no place that had much difficulty with a little exception: parts that required splitting up, those turned annoying easily in GW1 because the AI couldn't do much when movement was required. They couldn't move between points, they couldn't move away towards objectives, without specific player input and baby-sitting. Which is the main problem with GW2, a LOT of the encounters require splitting up and moving, which isn't something the AI of GW2 (or GW1) could ever do properly.

> > > >

> > > > GW1 was soloable with the right heroes, the right skills, the right knowledge of the encounters and enemies, and a plan.

> > > > Fixed your opening statement. Most games get easier if you know what you are doing. Funny how that works.

> > >

> > > Isn't that obvious? And no GW1 was really easy once you got the meta comp ready but that's beside the point.

> > >

> > > That doesn't change anything I said. The AI of GW1 would be unable to do much in GW2, and the AI of GW2 wouldn't do much either. It's not something you fix with an AI. Especially in non-combat encounters. Anyone who thinks of heroes in dungeons, needs to take every encounter in every dungeon and figure out how an AI would beat it. Simple as that. Unfotunately all we read about is "I'd love to see heroes" and stop there.

> >

> > Until PoF, as a Ranger, I was forced to drag along extremely stupid limited skill AI help for everything. How is a Hero much different for the vast majority of the game?

>

> That AI can jump lasers in CoE and then use the consoles with correct timing? It can gather and move the wisps in Swampland? It can help you with the bombs part of CM p2? It can avoid the pull effect of Kholer in AC?

>

> That "extremely stupid" AI might've been good for random open world fights, but where it matters it's useless. Or it has overpowered reduction in damage for the pet to survive, not really good for an actual ally in a fight.

>

> Don't tell me you want that stupid pet AI as your "henchman"

 

We are talking two different things. You are talking about harder scripting. I am talking about a Hero that can add something for a player doing a HoT hero point, story instances, and other very different events, particularly in areas that simply do not have general map participation . Areas like Orr that are abandoned save for certain events. Content that expects randoms to join up, and the Randoms are not there. Areas like PoF is already becoming.

 

But go ahead and fixate. Prove that heroes would be useless in ALL of the game based upon a slice of content you deem to be the only content worth talking about. No, I would never intrude my lowly self and filthy AI companion into the Realms of the Gods. You can keep it.

 

I use my EQ2 single merc to clear a lot of old content that used to require groups, including some scripted events and a ton of open dungeons. The majority of players there do. No, I can't be in two places and click multiple widgits. But the Merc is the difference between clearing and not clearing, period, on a lot of content. Sorry if that offends you so. Sorrier you cannot see past your own playstyle.

 

I'm done, but the day will come when Anet sees income and a need for "Casual Scrubs" like myself to have a means to address abandoned zones with content designed for a more active map, You will see them. Just like mounts.

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > Honestly I could list a mechanic in at least 50% of all instanced content that AI could never be able to do nomatter how hard anet tries to improve it because its designed to be done by humans not computers. The only solution would be to bypass all challenge and skip any mechanics that are too complex by autocompleting them or executing them perfectly every single time which is bad for the game and defeats the purpose of the dungeon. People just need to accept this isnt gw1 where the challenge is using skills with the right timing and managing mob aggro and realise heroes cant work here.

>

> In story content it's usually things that can be done solo with the npcs just being there for morale support, so if they allowed heroes in dungeons, all those parts that require multiple players would be made so one player works instead.

>

> In CoE's laser jump, only one person would be required to use a console (obviously one on the other side), you can't expect the AI to jump.

> The Spider Boss in AC would deal zero damage to the npcs, or deal much much reduced damage to them.

> In Swampland you'll need to run a single wisp, and during the cannon phase of Mai Trin, the npcs would use a shield to ignore the cannons.

>

> Even if they could create an AI that can handle all those mechanics it would be kitten idea anyway. Imagine if the AI was so good that it could do the CoE jumping part, but with a 80% chance of completing it. What's the point?

 

Then that takes all the challenge out of it. Swampland is 100% about coordinating all 3 people to run wisps. the challenge IS the coordination, not the actual running.

If NPCS are immune to damage from oneshot AOES whats stopping them from ressing you if you die to the oneshot. Unless you are advocating if you go down in a fight with npc heroes the fight is automatically over?

 

It just doesnt work.

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > > > > > On a serious note, gw2 is as easy as video games come. You can solo 95% of the game. GW1 on HM was difficult even with maxed out heroes. Two very different games.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GW1 was very easy to solo, even on HM, with good heroes. There was no place that had much difficulty with a little exception: parts that required splitting up, those turned annoying easily in GW1 because the AI couldn't do much when movement was required. They couldn't move between points, they couldn't move away towards objectives, without specific player input and baby-sitting. Which is the main problem with GW2, a LOT of the encounters require splitting up and moving, which isn't something the AI of GW2 (or GW1) could ever do properly.

> > > > >

> > > > > GW1 was soloable with the right heroes, the right skills, the right knowledge of the encounters and enemies, and a plan.

> > > > > Fixed your opening statement. Most games get easier if you know what you are doing. Funny how that works.

> > > >

> > > > Isn't that obvious? And no GW1 was really easy once you got the meta comp ready but that's beside the point.

> > > >

> > > > That doesn't change anything I said. The AI of GW1 would be unable to do much in GW2, and the AI of GW2 wouldn't do much either. It's not something you fix with an AI. Especially in non-combat encounters. Anyone who thinks of heroes in dungeons, needs to take every encounter in every dungeon and figure out how an AI would beat it. Simple as that. Unfotunately all we read about is "I'd love to see heroes" and stop there.

> > >

> > > Until PoF, as a Ranger, I was forced to drag along extremely stupid limited skill AI help for everything. How is a Hero much different for the vast majority of the game?

> >

> > That AI can jump lasers in CoE and then use the consoles with correct timing? It can gather and move the wisps in Swampland? It can help you with the bombs part of CM p2? It can avoid the pull effect of Kholer in AC?

> >

> > That "extremely stupid" AI might've been good for random open world fights, but where it matters it's useless. Or it has overpowered reduction in damage for the pet to survive, not really good for an actual ally in a fight.

> >

> > Don't tell me you want that stupid pet AI as your "henchman"

>

> We are talking two different things. You are talking about harder scripting. I am talking about a Hero that can add something for a player doing a HoT hero point, story instances, and other very different events, particularly in areas that simply do not have general map participation . Areas like Orr that are abandoned save for certain events. Content that expects randoms to join up, and the Randoms are not there. Areas like PoF is already becoming.

>

> But go ahead and fixate. Prove that heroes would be useless in ALL of the game based upon a slice of content you deem to be the only content worth talking about. No, I would never intrude my lowly self and filthy AI companion into the Realms of the Gods. You can keep it.

>

> I use my EQ2 single merc to clear a lot of old content that used to require groups, including some scripted events and a ton of open dungeons. The majority of players there do. No, I can't be in two places and click multiple widgits. But the Merc is the difference between clearing and not clearing, period, on a lot of content. Sorry if that offends you so. Sorrier you cannot see past your own playstyle.

>

> I'm done, but the day will come when Anet sees income and a need for "Casual Scrubs" like myself to have a means to address abandoned zones with content designed for a more active map, You will see them. Just like mounts.

 

AI would work in the open world. You can already have a necro minion master build and basically be unkillable. This isnt what the OP was suggesting though so isnt what the discussion was about. OP wanted AI for fractals and dungeons so theres no need to be SO rude when you are going more off topic than everyone else.

 

If AI worked in the open world it would have to be disabled at all world bosses and whenever player count reached a high threshold similar to how miniatures are disabled. this is essential so encounters arent totally trivialised by having 2-5x the intended number of players participating and so performance doesnt crash with the absurd body count and skill effects.

 

We have to consider if its worth it to undertake the MASSIVE amount of work it would be to introduce AI companions for the very small part of the game where they would be functional, and until the game is LITERALLY dying, im going to say NO. Roll and necro and use minions instead.

[Claudia De Anar.6304]

Would love to see Heros or Henchies for dungeons/fractals, so the OP has my vote. I'm quite sure heros did not work out as hoped in GW1 so I respect the notion the devs would only go there to revive a really dead content format, but I would personnally embrace it. Being able to learn a dungeon or fractal with henchies would save a newer player embarrassment and those around their/my clueless arse heartburn.