It was supposed to be Abaddon, wasn't it?

[dusanyu.4057]

Balthazar was a jerk in gw 1 lore ever visit Tahnnakai Temple In factions? Inside was a canthen hero named Kaolai.

This is his story.

 

When the gods walked Tyria a thousand years ago, the Ritualist Kaolai, an old man even then, challenged Balthazar to a game of Nui in exchange for sparing a village that had offended the god through some long-forgotten breach of etiquette. Balthazar laughingly accepted and the game began. Seven days later it ended with Kaolai the winner; the villagers were spared. But in a fit of anger, Balthazar slew Kaolai. Afterward, in a rare gesture of sportsmanship, the god ordered Kaolai inducted into Tahnnakai Temple

 

Source https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kaolai

[Kyban.4031]

Honestly, I thought the story worked fine with Balthazar. It made sense even though we didn't see how Balthazar got to the point where he became the "villain" in real time. I mean, he's always been the "God of War" not the "God of Minimal Collateral Damage". He wasn't quite as complex of a big bad as Abaddon was but that's fine, and he did use tactics where he needed to. It's not like he was ever trying to be the hero, just a hot head seeking his own glory as per usual. I enjoyed the story immensely even if it wasn't perfect.

 

As for Abaddon, is he even permanently dead? The heart vendor for the jackals says he's been long dead but his torment and corruption still remain and the jackals are still seeking nightfall. What does "seeking nightfall" mean? Does that mean Abaddon can be resurrected? I'd assumed he was permanently dead, but he still has a lot of presence in the world, maybe he pulled a Lazarus? I wouldn't mind seeing him resurrected if they do the story right.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @dusanyu.4057 said:

> Balthazar was a jerk in gw 1 lore ever visit Tahnnakai Temple In factions? Inside was a canthen hero named Kaolai.

> This is his story.

 

Having anger issues might make one a jerk, but it doesn't make someone a slaughtering savage with no care of life.

 

> @Kyban.4031 said:

> Honestly, I thought the story worked fine with Balthazar. It made sense even though we didn't see how Balthazar got to the point where he became the "villain" in real time. I mean, he's always been the "God of War" not the "God of Minimal Collateral Damage". He wasn't quite as complex of a big bad as Abaddon was but that's fine, and he did use tactics where he needed to. It's not like he was ever trying to be the hero, just a hot head seeking his own glory as per usual. I enjoyed the story immensely even if it wasn't perfect.

>

> As for Abaddon, is he even permanently dead? The heart vendor for the jackals says he's been long dead but his torment and corruption still remain and the jackals are still seeking nightfall. What does "seeking nightfall" mean? Does that mean Abaddon can be resurrected? I'd assumed he was permanently dead, but he still has a lot of presence in the world, maybe he pulled a Lazarus? I wouldn't mind seeing him resurrected if they do the story right.

 

He has been the god of **honorable** war though. He was the "brighter side" of it - fighting for just reasons, defending innocents. He had his flaws like his anger issues - every non-monotheistic god has flaws - but he was still wholly presented as a good figure. Someone who hated deception, who fought fair and square.

 

Not someone who slaughtered innocents just to build an army, who didn't care whether his followers lived or died, who lived only for the sake of fighting more, who used deceptive means to undermine his opponents. That's not Balthazar as presented in GW1.

 

Not all gods of combat need be evil. Otherwise, just about every Norse god would be. And Athena from Greek mythos.

 

And yes, Abaddon is fully, permanently dead. It's a horse that was beaten more than any other topic. Kormir absorbed all of Abadon's essence - his knowledge, his power, even his will. And his will "is broken" to use her words. While it is theoretically plausible for him to make a return, it would have to be via corrupting Kormir from within, and she's gone.

[Kyban.4031]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> He has been the god of **honorable** war though. He was the "brighter side" of it - fighting for just reasons, defending innocents. He had his flaws like his anger issues - every non-monotheistic god has flaws - but he was still wholly presented as a good figure. Someone who hated deception, who fought fair and square.

>

> Not someone who slaughtered innocents just to build an army, who didn't care whether his followers lived or died, who lived only for the sake of fighting more, who used deceptive means to undermine his opponents. That's not Balthazar as presented in GW1.

>

> Not all gods of combat need be evil. Otherwise, just about every Norse god would be. And Athena from Greek mythos.

 

I never said gods of war had to be evil, Balthazar doesn't seem personally malevolent (more like he doesn't care about us because we're basically ants to him) but I guess his minions did go a bit overboard on the slaughtering innocents thing. I never got the impression that he was super honorable in GW1 though, that seemed more like the Zaishen's thing. I'm disappointed we didn't get more story on the rest of the Zaishen Order, we just saw the "zealots" popping up to support Balthazar.

 

Balthazar only really used one deception because he needed to hide from the other gods until he was stronger and only after his sense of honor had been marred. I felt the explanation worked well enough that it wasn't jarring after we understood why he did it.

 

 

[Slowpokeking.8720]

> @Kyban.4031 said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > He has been the god of **honorable** war though. He was the "brighter side" of it - fighting for just reasons, defending innocents. He had his flaws like his anger issues - every non-monotheistic god has flaws - but he was still wholly presented as a good figure. Someone who hated deception, who fought fair and square.

> >

> > Not someone who slaughtered innocents just to build an army, who didn't care whether his followers lived or died, who lived only for the sake of fighting more, who used deceptive means to undermine his opponents. That's not Balthazar as presented in GW1.

> >

> > Not all gods of combat need be evil. Otherwise, just about every Norse god would be. And Athena from Greek mythos.

>

> I never said gods of war had to be evil, Balthazar doesn't seem personally malevolent (more like he doesn't care about us because we're basically ants to him) but I guess his minions did go a bit overboard on the slaughtering innocents thing. I never got the impression that he was super honorable in GW1 though, that seemed more like the Zaishen's thing. I'm disappointed we didn't get more story on the rest of the Zaishen Order, we just saw the "zealots" popping up to support Balthazar.

>

> Balthazar only really used one deception because he needed to hide from the other gods until he was stronger and only after his sense of honor had been marred. I felt the explanation worked well enough that it wasn't jarring after we understood why he did it.

>

>

 

He didn't jump out to fight Abaddon, I don't see why would he want to come out to fight the dragons so much.

[NotASmurf.1725]

> @Kyban.4031 said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > He has been the god of **honorable** war though. He was the "brighter side" of it - fighting for just reasons, defending innocents. He had his flaws like his anger issues - every non-monotheistic god has flaws - but he was still wholly presented as a good figure. Someone who hated deception, who fought fair and square.

> >

> > Not someone who slaughtered innocents just to build an army, who didn't care whether his followers lived or died, who lived only for the sake of fighting more, who used deceptive means to undermine his opponents. That's not Balthazar as presented in GW1.

> >

> > Not all gods of combat need be evil. Otherwise, just about every Norse god would be. And Athena from Greek mythos.

>

> I never said gods of war had to be evil, Balthazar doesn't seem personally malevolent (more like he doesn't care about us because we're basically ants to him) but I guess his minions did go a bit overboard on the slaughtering innocents thing. I never got the impression that he was super honorable in GW1 though, that seemed more like the Zaishen's thing. I'm disappointed we didn't get more story on the rest of the Zaishen Order, we just saw the "zealots" popping up to support Balthazar.

>

> Balthazar only really used one deception because he needed to hide from the other gods until he was stronger and only after his sense of honor had been marred. I felt the explanation worked well enough that it wasn't jarring after we understood why he did it.

>

>

 

There are many examples of his honorable nature though. In Siren's Landing we learn how he personally blessed the dead after a battle. Or there's the case of Kaolai as someone already mentioned - challanged Balthazar to a game, if he wins his village is spared. He won, and his village was indeed spared but Balthazar killed him in his outburst. Later he realized what he had done and made sure Kaolai could rest in Tahnnakai Temple, pretty much the highest honor for the dead in Cantha.

 

He was angsty but he wasn't a one dimensional power hungry killing machine. If he was I'm pretty sure he could've absorbed Abaddon's power instead of locking him up for example.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Kyban.4031 said:

> I never said gods of war had to be evil, Balthazar doesn't seem personally malevolent (more like he doesn't care about us because we're basically ants to him) but I guess his minions did go a bit overboard on the slaughtering innocents thing. I never got the impression that he was super honorable in GW1 though, that seemed more like the Zaishen's thing. I'm disappointed we didn't get more story on the rest of the Zaishen Order, we just saw the "zealots" popping up to support Balthazar.

>

> Balthazar only really used one deception because he needed to hide from the other gods until he was stronger and only after his sense of honor had been marred. I felt the explanation worked well enough that it wasn't jarring after we understood why he did it.

 

Actively slaughtering townsfolks for the sake of building an army of enslaved souls is 100% evil. Sure, for the most part it was the Forged doing this, but it was under his orders. And the Forged had no choice - as the Herald of Balthazar said herself. Balthazar had even turned his Eternal army from the Fissure of Woe into the first of the Forged as shown in the Herald's letters in Night of Fires.

 

It wasn't just the Zaishen, but the Eternals also being "super honorable" and "protect the innocents". And both groups fully followed Balthazar's teachings. We even got told in Flashpoint that Balthazar "has learned" there's no honor in war, indicating that something happened to him to demoralize him from his old beliefs - to fight honorably - but what was that "something"? Him not getting his fight with the Elder Dragons.

 

He used the mirror to hide from the gods, but his deeds of deception was constantly tricking the White Mantle, Pact Commander, and others. Not just as Lazarus, but in his build up to revealing himself as Lazarus too (this was off-screen but we see it in Bauer's journals and the journal in A Shadow's Deeds). And he would have kept that disguise going longer, had we not forcibly removed it.

 

Season 3 failed, imo, because the "Lazarus reveal" made no sense and destroyed a 7 year long dangling story arc that many people wanted to see culminate in an epic way, but also because the Pact Commander antagonized Balthazar into conflict - we literally had solid, presented no reason to be so hostile to "Lazarus" in Dragon Vigil, nor any reason to not try peaceful talks with "Lazarus" in Taimi's Pet Project, aside from the fact Lazarus was a mursaat. Path of Fire failed, because they made Balthazar a spoiled, uncarring, mass murderer who lost his sense of honor because he wasn't allowed a fight he wanted but yet even before that supposed loss of sense of honor he proclaimed that he was senseless conflict incarnate (which is far from the honorable god we see of GW1).

 

> @NotASmurf.1725 said:

> There are many examples of his honorable nature though. In Siren's Landing we learn how he personally blessed the dead after a battle. Or there's the case of Kaolai as someone already mentioned - challanged Balthazar to a game, if he wins his village is spared. He won, and his village was indeed spared but Balthazar killed him in his outburst. Later he realized what he had done and made sure Kaolai could rest in Tahnnakai Temple, pretty much the highest honor for the dead in Cantha.

>

> He was angsty but he wasn't a one dimensional power hungry killing machine. If he was I'm pretty sure he could've absorbed Abaddon's power instead of locking him up for example.

 

TBH, that parable is also part of the retcon on Balthazar. Yes, he was blessing the soldiers after a battle. But he's also shown swallowing a soul - which in Nightfall was fairly heavily defined as pretty much the worst thing you can do to a person, and one of the major reasons why Dhuum and Abaddon were evil gods.

[Kyban.4031]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086"

Good points, I guess he is undeniably evil now. I'm willing to accept the change though, not because he didn't get to fight but because he was stripped of his power and imprisoned for who knows how long by his peers because he wanted to do something that's part of his very nature. That has to be a tough pill to swallow for him.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Kyban.4031 said:

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086"

> Good points, I guess he is undeniably evil now. I'm willing to accept the change though, not because he didn't get to fight but because he was stripped of his power and imprisoned for who knows how long by his peers because he wanted to do something that's part of his very nature. That has to be a tough pill to swallow for him.

 

I would agree with you, except Facing the Truth showed him from before imprisonment, and that was no different than Balthazar in the rest of PoF/S3. It painted him as pretty starkly different from how he is in GW1. Shouting that he doesn't shy from conflict because "I AM CONFLICT!" and how he insisted on the fight regardless of the devastation to the people of Tyria - add in the parable about him eating souls from Season 3 about his deeds pre-Exodus as seen from this new perspective - it's clear ArenaNet was retroactively painting him as evil.

 

Had his change of persona actually occur in the 250 years since GW1, I'd say it'd be nice. That's what we were presented with in Episode 5, after all. But Facing the Truth made it clear that his change of persona was not from imprisonment, and the parable strongly show that it's just a retcon that attempts to make use of the lack of direct interaction with Balthazar in GW1 - one that they had rather been vying towards throughout all of GW2, honestly, with the Idle of Balthazar from charr gladium sire and the Priory Claw Island storylines, and Steward Gixx calling Balthazar the "god of mass murder" - which at the time could just be interpreted as a non-human critical view of a "god of war" but now in hindsight makes it look like they've been painting Balthazar steadily more black over the few years, perhaps out of as I believe drax calls it the "Disney's all god of wars are evil" perspective.

 

They had a chance to make Balthazar a good villain. And instead they retconned his persona from GW1 and made him a generic evil god of war villain. Something that Menzies pulled off well in GW1, despite the fact we never even met the guy.

 

Had it not been for that parable, had they changed his pre-imprisonment speech to be something more relatable, and had they made his fall more tragic, then it could have worked. He could have been the "hero that became the villain" (ala infamous Batman Dark Knight line).

 

Instead, they just made him the same before and after his fall, changing his persona completely from GW1.

 

They could still attempt to salvage it, by explaining the outcome of the Eternal Battle (as we know it has ended, so SOMETHING happened to Menzies and this something could have held a profound impact on Balthazar), but like Malyck by now it'd be a case of "too little too late". Whatever revelations that outcome could have held, needed to have been part of Night of Fires, Facing the Truth, or The Way Forward where our largest revelations came.

[Kyban.4031]

@Konig Des Todes.2086

You're right, bummer. I guess I had a rosier view of Balthazar (like the tyrian humans I suppose :p ). Even if the villain wasn't as compelling it still felt like a pretty epic story.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Kyban.4031 said:

> @Konig Des Todes.2086

> You're right, bummer. I guess I had a rosier view of Balthazar (like the tyrian humans I suppose :p ). Even if the villain wasn't as compelling it still felt like a pretty epic story.

Your view was more or less mine until Facing the Truth. I guess I just had the face the truth of the situation. :'D

 

[dusanyu.4057]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @dusanyu.4057 said:

> > Balthazar was a jerk in gw 1 lore ever visit Tahnnakai Temple In factions? Inside was a canthen hero named Kaolai.

> > This is his story.

>

> Having anger issues might make one a jerk, but it doesn't make someone a slaughtering savage with no care of life.

But the story from the temple shows that balthazar was not against killing anyone who moderately upset him he is after all the human god of war and mass murder

 

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Actually I think the whole Forged Army sound more like Shiro Tagachi than ABaddon.

[miriforst.1290]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @Kyban.4031 said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086"

> > Good points, I guess he is undeniably evil now. I'm willing to accept the change though, not because he didn't get to fight but because he was stripped of his power and imprisoned for who knows how long by his peers because he wanted to do something that's part of his very nature. That has to be a tough pill to swallow for him.

>

> I would agree with you, except Facing the Truth showed him from before imprisonment, and that was no different than Balthazar in the rest of PoF/S3. It painted him as pretty starkly different from how he is in GW1. Shouting that he doesn't shy from conflict because "I AM CONFLICT!" and how he insisted on the fight regardless of the devastation to the people of Tyria - add in the parable about him eating souls from Season 3 about his deeds pre-Exodus as seen from this new perspective - it's clear ArenaNet was retroactively painting him as evil.

>

> Had his change of persona actually occur in the 250 years since GW1, I'd say it'd be nice. That's what we were presented with in Episode 5, after all. But Facing the Truth made it clear that his change of persona was not from imprisonment, and the parable strongly show that it's just a retcon that attempts to make use of the lack of direct interaction with Balthazar in GW1 - one that they had rather been vying towards throughout all of GW2, honestly, with the Idle of Balthazar from charr gladium sire and the Priory Claw Island storylines, and Steward Gixx calling Balthazar the "god of mass murder" - which at the time could just be interpreted as a non-human critical view of a "god of war" but now in hindsight makes it look like they've been painting Balthazar steadily more black over the few years, perhaps out of as I believe drax calls it the "Disney's all god of wars are evil" perspective.

>

> They had a chance to make Balthazar a good villain. And instead they retconned his persona from GW1 and made him a generic evil god of war villain. Something that Menzies pulled off well in GW1, despite the fact we never even met the guy.

>

> Had it not been for that parable, had they changed his pre-imprisonment speech to be something more relatable, and had they made his fall more tragic, then it could have worked. He could have been the "hero that became the villain" (ala infamous Batman Dark Knight line).

>

> Instead, they just made him the same before and after his fall, changing his persona completely from GW1.

>

> They could still attempt to salvage it, by explaining the outcome of the Eternal Battle (as we know it has ended, so SOMETHING happened to Menzies and this something could have held a profound impact on Balthazar), but like Malyck by now it'd be a case of "too little too late". Whatever revelations that outcome could have held, needed to have been part of Night of Fires, Facing the Truth, or The Way Forward where our largest revelations came.

 

It's such a shame.

 

Balthazar was one of the most iconic figures of the games (he is after all the patron of pvp and combat which is the entire basis of the game) and its a shame that he is now a cartoon villain. He even hits all the spheres of [tvtropes definition of a card carrying villain](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CardCarryingVillain "tvtropes definition of a card carrying villain").

 

1. He wants all the magic and power so he can conquer the other gods (i will be the only god! Maniacal laugh!).

2. He needs souls to create angry evil burning metal minions so he kills innocents to convert them (he passes the moral event horizon in the first mission. ).

3. His goals also leads to him destroying the world. This isn't a goal but it is a consequence he is fully aware of without showing any sign of doubt (Your world is of little consequence).

 

I consider PoF to be fanfiction with some ups and main story wise a lot of downs. And balthazar is our semi ron the death eater if you will. I hope they can go back to writing dragons now because i think they have forgotten how to do anything else.

 

Heck no matter how bad it would be to go back now i would actually personally prefer if while in the fissure of woe we find the actual chained up balthazar and it turns out that lazarus who was balthazar was actually menzies who secretly defeated balthazar and stole his identity and armies. Scooby doo aside i mean. But not really.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

> @miriforst.1290 said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @Kyban.4031 said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086"

> > > Good points, I guess he is undeniably evil now. I'm willing to accept the change though, not because he didn't get to fight but because he was stripped of his power and imprisoned for who knows how long by his peers because he wanted to do something that's part of his very nature. That has to be a tough pill to swallow for him.

> >

> > I would agree with you, except Facing the Truth showed him from before imprisonment, and that was no different than Balthazar in the rest of PoF/S3. It painted him as pretty starkly different from how he is in GW1. Shouting that he doesn't shy from conflict because "I AM CONFLICT!" and how he insisted on the fight regardless of the devastation to the people of Tyria - add in the parable about him eating souls from Season 3 about his deeds pre-Exodus as seen from this new perspective - it's clear ArenaNet was retroactively painting him as evil.

> >

> > Had his change of persona actually occur in the 250 years since GW1, I'd say it'd be nice. That's what we were presented with in Episode 5, after all. But Facing the Truth made it clear that his change of persona was not from imprisonment, and the parable strongly show that it's just a retcon that attempts to make use of the lack of direct interaction with Balthazar in GW1 - one that they had rather been vying towards throughout all of GW2, honestly, with the Idle of Balthazar from charr gladium sire and the Priory Claw Island storylines, and Steward Gixx calling Balthazar the "god of mass murder" - which at the time could just be interpreted as a non-human critical view of a "god of war" but now in hindsight makes it look like they've been painting Balthazar steadily more black over the few years, perhaps out of as I believe drax calls it the "Disney's all god of wars are evil" perspective.

> >

> > They had a chance to make Balthazar a good villain. And instead they retconned his persona from GW1 and made him a generic evil god of war villain. Something that Menzies pulled off well in GW1, despite the fact we never even met the guy.

> >

> > Had it not been for that parable, had they changed his pre-imprisonment speech to be something more relatable, and had they made his fall more tragic, then it could have worked. He could have been the "hero that became the villain" (ala infamous Batman Dark Knight line).

> >

> > Instead, they just made him the same before and after his fall, changing his persona completely from GW1.

> >

> > They could still attempt to salvage it, by explaining the outcome of the Eternal Battle (as we know it has ended, so SOMETHING happened to Menzies and this something could have held a profound impact on Balthazar), but like Malyck by now it'd be a case of "too little too late". Whatever revelations that outcome could have held, needed to have been part of Night of Fires, Facing the Truth, or The Way Forward where our largest revelations came.

>

> It's such a shame.

>

> Balthazar was one of the most iconic figures of the games (he is after all the patron of pvp and combat which is the entire basis of the game) and its a shame that he is now a cartoon villain. He even hits all the spheres of [tvtropes definition of a card carrying villain](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CardCarryingVillain "tvtropes definition of a card carrying villain").

>

> 1. He wants all the magic and power so he can conquer the other gods (i will be the only god! Maniacal laugh!).

> 2. He needs souls to create angry evil burning metal minions so he kills innocents to convert them (he passes the moral event horizon in the first mission. ).

> 3. His goals also leads to him destroying the world. This isn't a goal but it is a consequence he is fully aware of without showing any sign of doubt (Your world is of little consequence).

>

> I consider PoF to be fanfiction with some ups and main story wise a lot of downs. And balthazar is our semi ron the death eater if you will. I hope they can go back to writing dragons now because i think they have forgotten how to do anything else.

>

> Heck no matter how bad it would be to go back now i would actually personally prefer if while in the fissure of woe we find the actual chained up balthazar and it turns out that lazarus who was balthazar was actually menzies who secretly defeated balthazar and stole his identity and armies. Scooby doo aside i mean. But not really.

 

Yeah, it could have been the perfect chance to introduce Menzies since he didn't make direct appearance in GW1

[draxynnic.3719]

> @dusanyu.4057 said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @dusanyu.4057 said:

> > > Balthazar was a jerk in gw 1 lore ever visit Tahnnakai Temple In factions? Inside was a canthen hero named Kaolai.

> > > This is his story.

> >

> > Having anger issues might make one a jerk, but it doesn't make someone a slaughtering savage with no care of life.

> But the story from the temple shows that balthazar was not against killing anyone who moderately upset him he is after all the human god of war and mass murder

>

 

It shows a tantrum which he sought to make amends for afterwards.

 

That's very different to somebody who's willing to let an entire world be destroyed so he can engage in a bit of blood sport.

[JackDaniels.1697]

Nobody in the Marvel or DC universe actually stays dead, they always come back to life in some form or another. And why? Well because you can't really kill off important and popular characters, it's not good for business. Anet has some very good writers, so I'm baffled that they couldn't come up with a way to make Abaddon work in this story, so instead it's better to shoehorn Balthazar in right? Did they really think we wouldn't notice that?

 

I might just be giving them too much credit at this point.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @JackDaniels.1697 said:

> Nobody in the Marvel or DC universe actually stays dead, they always come back to life in some form or another.

 

Granted, I don't know too many comic book fans... but everyone I've discussed this with calls it a problem, not a plus. When death stops being permanent, it stops having meaning, or the same emotional punch. What's the point of death when it's functionally identical to being knocked unconscious, but just lasts a bit longer?

[Alga.6498]

I just hated how Balthazar became the main villian and who gone mad and let's kill all in Tyria cuz ANet logic!!11

No but srsly, yes I believe it too, this would fit way more better if Abaddon was bought back to Life or something and THEN acted like this just like Balthazar did.

But nooope.

 

How about Menzies, ANet? Have you forgotten all about Balthazar's **evil** half-brother?

Oh well let's just kill Balthazar cuz anet story is fine as wine!!!!!!!! :trollface:

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @JackDaniels.1697 said:

> Nobody in the Marvel or DC universe actually stays dead, they always come back to life in some form or another. And why? Well because you can't really kill off important and popular characters, it's not good for business.

 

I would disagree with this. I find that comics result in characters not being dead because as comics age, those who read them become the writers for them, and they want to use characters the previous writers killed off. There's a reason why the only characters who stay dead are those who die in the heroes' origin stories - if then. Because the new writers didn't grow up on comics of those figures, since they died immediately.

 

Bringing back characters from death constantly does not make "good writing" nor is not killing characters off "bad for business". Though I could see how killing off major characters in a comic franchise that's meant to last decades can be "bad for business", especially in the case of killing off the title characters like Superman or Batman's deaths.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @JackDaniels.1697 said:

> > Nobody in the Marvel or DC universe actually stays dead, they always come back to life in some form or another.

>

> Granted, I don't know too many comic book fans... but everyone I've discussed this with calls it a problem, not a plus. When death stops being permanent, it stops having meaning, or the same emotional punch. What's the point of death when it's functionally identical to being knocked unconscious, but just lasts a bit longer?

 

Lack of consistency was the biggest problem of superhero comics.

 

I really wish we could get some explaining like it was actually Menizes though.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @JackDaniels.1697 said:

> > Nobody in the Marvel or DC universe actually stays dead, they always come back to life in some form or another. And why? Well because you can't really kill off important and popular characters, it's not good for business.

>

> I would disagree with this. I find that comics result in characters not being dead because as comics age, those who read them become the writers for them, and they want to use characters the previous writers killed off. There's a reason why the only characters who stay dead are those who die in the heroes' origin stories - if then. Because the new writers didn't grow up on comics of those figures, since they died immediately.

>

> Bringing back characters from death constantly does not make "good writing" nor is not killing characters off "bad for business". Though I could see how killing off major characters in a comic franchise that's meant to last decades can be "bad for business", especially in the case of killing off the title characters like Superman or Batman's deaths.

 

It would be good to reboot the franchise after certain age rather than bring back dead characters, especially in short period.