Elite spec Idea: Tiandi

[Thornwolf.9721]

With the thief have a lot of similar playstyles to the assassin as much as you guys might want it, I doubt we will receive such a Spec for this class. Messmer seems like a more likely canidate in my opinion due to the simple face that they lack duel daggers (The iconic wep for assassins) and the fact they share the same good in lyssa with assassins. The game is entirly based around human lore going from PoF Onward into the saga, where they are still a semi-focus with charr anger being directed their way. I highly doubt they would pass up the opportunity to give messmer a more death/murder themed E-spec considering the first in chrono was about time manipulation. The second was about harnessing the power of the crystal desert which was known to be a huge source of power, due to the events with Abbadon and the other gods. So with that out of the way what could we get? Well I think the next spec will remove the thieves ability to use stealth, if using the spec as well their ability to simply dodge everything. I imagine it will be more about stances and going in to a fight, and fighting it in a more honorable way which will set this apart from the other thieves in how it approaches combat.

 

# Enter Tiandi

 

What Is a Tiandi? :"The Tiandi are loyal protectors to kings, queens, and emperors. Their name, which means “heaven and earth,” represents their lifelong dedication. They are masters of the dao blade, the weapon of choice for this Royal Guard. The Tiandi take an oath of loyalty to their ruler." ~ Basic google search.

 

Lore and purpose: Lore wise this is perfect because it is not limited too simply the humans, This is something any race including the ferocious charr or noble norn could pick up. They are swearing an oath to protect their rulers; Their homes and their people no matter the odds. In other words they are becoming more of a protector than they are anything else, focused on maintaining balance and order and striking down any who would dare approach their homelands. This could be a lore reason behind so many choosing to learn this path when in cantha, because what have we done up to this point? We have protected our home, tyria from all threats and tried to heal the wounds we inadvertently caused and to top this off they wear medium-ish armor which is a norm in Chinese warriors. (Metals were not as easy, or as cheap to use as some other races.) This could be the antithesis of the new spec, the anti-thief or the Anti-gank so to speak. A hard counter to their brothers and sisters, for they once walked that path and since the other two specs despite what some might say have been a bit more edgy this could be our one thief spec that is more about honorable combat and poised power/control over blitz bursts and underhanded tactics.

 

Weapon: Greatsword

Now I know what you're thinking "But dingus, the Dao blade is technically a one handed sword IRL. LOL U can't Use da sword as a tWoHaNdEd weapon, scrub lol bad idea." Hear me out here before you get upset. The reason I think this could work is thieves would trade steal for a two stance system, the first would be one handed which allows you to use your greatsword in a manner of more flow and quick strikes meant to distract and cc while also repositioning yourself. This stance is not about "Rip and Tear" its about movement and the Illusion of the enemy being in control as well defense; This is your defensive stance meant to allow you damage mitigation a bit extra-dodge and quick movements. It changes how the weapon skills work essentially. Think about it this way skills 1 through 5 become CC and movement based, they do little damage but they lead into HARD cc's which make it difficult for the enemy to react and it allows you full control while also dodging/parrying if not outright tanking hits. The video below shows you a bit of what I mean~

 

 

 

Something like this, The stance which makes you only use the Dao as a one handed kite tool/CC stance could be called "Stance Of Heavens" Which is where you move and strike like Air. You unbalance your opponent and crash into them like a very powerful force of wind, like a storm you are poised and deadly but the destruction is not through you yourself but also the devastation of the foundations which your enemy poises to set against you.

 

The Second stance "Stance of Earth" Is all about doing big damage, You grasp your sword firmly with two hands and you deliver deadly precision strikes meant to be fatal blows. So the First stance sets up the strike, and then like water you fluidly switch into the stance of earth and crash down upon them. You basically juggle these two stances as a mechanic that allow you to poise between a defensive cc orientated stance and a damage burst which is your more aggressive tool. These two put together properly will make you a force to be reckoned with, but the draw-back is you loose stealth like period. Even the core stealth abilities no longer function, I believe what they should do instead is heal you/buff you with the power of shadows. You're abilities are now more about facing the opponent head on and out-maneuvering them its a war of attrition and you're the one with the more formidable supplies as it were. Again a video below to show you what I mean by slower, but more damage. As well the basic feel~

 

 

Utilities: Stances

Self explanatory like the ranger with soul-beast you gain stances, you could have various ones such as "Lotus Stance" or "Dragons Poise". These stances could do a multitude of things and should effect your'e group as well making it more of a group focused spec. Its benefiting to have a Tiandi in your party because they can stand toe to toe with multiple foes and fight them all, they may not win but they can hold their position well. (Im not about to go into detail with this, or traits.)

 

 

This is a very bare bones concept, I don't feel like going into a super detailed list when I know it most likely wont happen. I just wanted to make a thief spec that I might like as the class itself has never been my cup of tea so to speak; I feel they deserve something different than what they have currently which is all very samey to me. A thief is a thief and the E-specs have only really double-downed on what it means to be a thief, now I Feel is a time for the thieves to get a truly unique E-spec that changes them fundamentally and really gives them a "new way to play". Dead-eye is long ranged thief with more stealth, Daredevil is super squirrel thief with lots of doges +Stealth and a Tiandi would be a thief who is no longer a thief ... think of it as your tank spec.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Cool idea for sure

[Dzheen.5291]

I like idea of stances. But how they will work with all steal and stealth traits we have? And that about second weapon set? Will it have stances too? If you suggest to remove stealth than what about Shadow Art trait line? I think stances must have short cd, max 10 sec. But this will make all steal traits OP because you will be able to spam their procs.

Cool idea but they will need to create not only new trait line but also change all existing one. I doubt Anet will do this.

I want gs as weapon and also i want Anet to update all existing weapons set.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Dzheen.5291" said:

> I like idea of stances. But how they will work with all steal and stealth traits we have? And that about second weapon set? Will it have stances too? If you suggest to remove stealth than what about Shadow Art trait line? I think stances must have short cd, max 10 sec. But this will make all steal traits OP because you will be able to spam their procs.

> Cool idea but they will need to create not only new trait line but also change all existing one. I doubt Anet will do this.

> I want gs as weapon and also i want Anet to update all existing weapons set.

 

You would get the benefits of them, but it would be without stealth. So whatever it offers you buff was would be appropriately turned to benefit the stances, weapons that provide stealth will instead provide a shadow shield or shield of shadows. This would then rather cause damage to be less effective and perhaps eat condi's on you; So it entirely depends on the player in all honesty. Again it was a basic and bare bones idea concept, but they could make it work similarly to soul-beast in that yes you loose the pet (In this case stealth) or scourge where shroud changes to not be shroud, and those traits still benefit you just not in the same way.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Dzheen.5291" said:

> I like idea of stances. But how they will work with all steal and stealth traits we have? And that about second weapon set? Will it have stances too? If you suggest to remove stealth than what about Shadow Art trait line? I think stances must have short cd, max 10 sec. But this will make all steal traits OP because you will be able to spam their procs.

> Cool idea but they will need to create not only new trait line but also change all existing one. I doubt Anet will do this.

> I want gs as weapon and also i want Anet to update all existing weapons set.

They could simply make a minor trait (the first one seems best for such a mechanic) reveal you the instant (or maybe a split second later) you enter Stealth.

So, you could benefit Stealth trait, because you _technically_ entered Stealth, even if you had no practical use for it, other than triggering said traits.

 

That aside, I'm definitely **against** more Greatswords.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Dzheen.5291" said:

> > I like idea of stances. But how they will work with all steal and stealth traits we have? And that about second weapon set? Will it have stances too? If you suggest to remove stealth than what about Shadow Art trait line? I think stances must have short cd, max 10 sec. But this will make all steal traits OP because you will be able to spam their procs.

> > Cool idea but they will need to create not only new trait line but also change all existing one. I doubt Anet will do this.

> > I want gs as weapon and also i want Anet to update all existing weapons set.

> They could simply make a minor trait (the first one seems best for such a mechanic) reveal you the instant (or maybe a split second later) you enter Stealth.

> So, you could benefit Stealth trait, because you _technically_ entered Stealth, even if you had no practical use for it, other than triggering said traits.

>

> That aside, I'm definitely **against** more Greatswords.

 

Lol against greatsword? There the best weapon with best skins. Better than some lame torch and skins imo lol

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Lol against greatsword? There the best weapon with best skins. Better than some lame torch and skins imo lol

 

Opinions are just that, opinions. They are **not** facts.

I absolutely hate those unwieldy over-sized chunks of metal (or whatever material it's made of).

The only skins I actually somewhat like are Khrysaor the Golden Sword, Scorpiones (only on my Charr Ranger because it doesn't look too over-sized on her) and Reaper's Greatsword (the basic one, not Dark Harvest).

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lol against greatsword? There the best weapon with best skins. Better than some lame torch and skins imo lol

>

> Opinions are just that, opinions. They are **not** facts.

> I absolutely hate those unwieldy over-sized chunks of metal (or whatever material it's made of).

> The only skins I actually somewhat like are Khrysaor the Golden Sword, Scorpiones (only on my Charr Ranger because it doesn't look too over-sized on her) and Reaper's Greatsword (the basic one, not Dark Harvest).

>

 

I know it's all subjective lol

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lol against greatsword? There the best weapon with best skins. Better than some lame torch and skins imo lol

>

> Opinions are just that, opinions. They are **not** facts.

> I absolutely hate those unwieldy over-sized chunks of metal (or whatever material it's made of).

> The only skins I actually somewhat like are Khrysaor the Golden Sword, Scorpiones (only on my Charr Ranger because it doesn't look too over-sized on her) and Reaper's Greatsword (the basic one, not Dark Harvest).

>

 

The only reason I went with greatsword, is because EVERYONE has been begging for it. and since they made deadeye due to everyone wanting rifle thief Im pretty sure greatsword is what thieves will get.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Lol against greatsword? There the best weapon with best skins. Better than some lame torch and skins imo lol

> >

> > Opinions are just that, opinions. They are **not** facts.

> > I absolutely hate those unwieldy over-sized chunks of metal (or whatever material it's made of).

> > The only skins I actually somewhat like are Khrysaor the Golden Sword, Scorpiones (only on my Charr Ranger because it doesn't look too over-sized on her) and Reaper's Greatsword (the basic one, not Dark Harvest).

> >

>

> The only reason I went with greatsword, is because EVERYONE has been begging for it. and since they made deadeye due to everyone wanting rifle thief Im pretty sure greatsword is what thieves will get.

I guess I am not part of this elusive group called EVERYONE.

 

I'd rather have offhand sword, or an axe in either hand.

Also, Thief already got two two-handed weapons.

Since Weaver got so many of them, Thief should get new weapon for dual wield skills.

It almost feels more like an Ele mechanic, despite having been one of the many special things about Thief in the beginning.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Lol against greatsword? There the best weapon with best skins. Better than some lame torch and skins imo lol

> > >

> > > Opinions are just that, opinions. They are **not** facts.

> > > I absolutely hate those unwieldy over-sized chunks of metal (or whatever material it's made of).

> > > The only skins I actually somewhat like are Khrysaor the Golden Sword, Scorpiones (only on my Charr Ranger because it doesn't look too over-sized on her) and Reaper's Greatsword (the basic one, not Dark Harvest).

> > >

> >

> > The only reason I went with greatsword, is because EVERYONE has been begging for it. and since they made deadeye due to everyone wanting rifle thief Im pretty sure greatsword is what thieves will get.

> I guess I am not part of this elusive group called EVERYONE.

>

> I'd rather have offhand sword, or an axe in either hand.

> Also, Thief already got two two-handed weapons.

> Since Weaver got so many of them, Thief should get new weapon for dual wield skills.

> It almost feels more like an Ele mechanic, despite having been one of the many special things about Thief in the beginning.

 

Im not a big fan of it either friend, just like Im not a huge fan of Rev getting greatsword. But the QQ about it is insane~ I was merely make a safe estimate as to what weapon we would get. Id honestly rather the thief get duel axes as then it would get two weapons~ Plus seeing a faster version of the Axe outside of warrior would be sick, especially if they made it a counter based weapon.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> Im not a big fan of it either friend, just like Im not a huge fan of Rev getting greatsword. But the QQ about it is insane~

 

The QQ over bunkers and conditions and CC was great too, yet the balance patch did not address them positively.

The QQ about the ~~templates~~ loadouts is great, too, yet it's not getting addressed.

I don't think Arenanet addresses the QQ when it comes to elite specs, since they never do it for other things.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > Im not a big fan of it either friend, just like Im not a huge fan of Rev getting greatsword. But the QQ about it is insane~

>

> The QQ over bunkers and conditions and CC was great too, yet the balance patch did not address them positively.

> The QQ about the ~~templates~~ loadouts is great, too, yet it's not getting addressed.

> I don't think Arenanet addresses the QQ when it comes to elite specs, since they never do it for other things.

 

1. Templates make them money, a small poriton of the playerbase complained. They wont change it due to the monetary gain

2. This patch did help with CC a bit, they do no damage now. (At least on the classes it was prevelant on, Warrior, Rev and a few others but not all.) So at least I can't bulls-rush a thief and crit them for 10k anymore yea? So there is that.

3. I can almost guarentee condi will be nerfed, and bunkers will get slapped next go around. Remember this was the initial phases of the balance attempt; In no way are they done so all the QQing will likely result in them nerfing that as well. Believe me I think it will happen, I know condi-rev is going to get smashed with that bat and basically be destroyed. And I think they might go scorched earth protocol with necromancer.... So no you will see them get destroyed.

4. Stealth is a prevailing problem that needs to be addressed, doesn't matter on any other front... you should be happy... Im asking them to give thieves and messmers the same tools everyone else has.

5. This has been a problem far longer than most other issues, and they've already hinted that they will look at it down the road.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

Hey I play For Honor too. I’m all for this idea, whether it’s GS or Offhand Sword.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> 2. This patch did help with CC a bit, they do no damage now. (At least on the classes it was prevelant on, Warrior, Rev and a few others but not all.) So at least I can't bulls-rush a thief and crit them for 10k anymore yea? So there is that.

I'd rather have had the skills retaining the damage and losing the CC instead.

That'd be much healthier in against the current bunker builds and it'd reduce the CC spam.

 

But Arenanet loves their CC spam.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > 2. This patch did help with CC a bit, they do no damage now. (At least on the classes it was prevelant on, Warrior, Rev and a few others but not all.) So at least I can't bulls-rush a thief and crit them for 10k anymore yea? So there is that.

> I'd rather have had the skills retaining the damage and losing the CC instead.

> That'd be much healthier in against the current bunker builds and it'd reduce the CC spam.

>

> But Arenanet loves their CC spam.

 

CC is good, when done correctly. the sustain is the issue, not the CC itself. Id rather damage be reduced 75% acrossed the board than have us loose more class identity, and get more homogenization but you know A-net.... gotta make the game easier and take away any unique features from a class due to the QQ. (Im looking at you power rev.... looking at you.)

[Safandula.8723]

i see greatsword thief, i give thumb up