castlemanic.3198 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Lyger.5429 said: > I don't know I find the responses from people of LGBT community in this thread a bit hypocritical. I mean read the title, the OP was upset that the quest only seemed to give the option of lesbian parings. Of course they were wrong about it, as others have said that this was not the case. When I played through it, I barely payed attention to who I was pairing (I may have even ended up with only heterosexual parings). What I am getting at is that the person who started this thread was not a straight individual (from my knowledge) getting upset that homosexual pairings were an option. If it was, you can be sure that Anet would have closed it as soon as possible. This is where the double standard lies. Society needs to let people express their opinions so civil discussion can take place instead of trying to shut people up because they don't agree with your opinion or have different biases and political viewpoints. We are walking on dangerous grounds these days. > > For these reasons and many more are probably why some people are asking to not have this in-game So quick side note, because you brought something up. My discussion with nosleepdemon after that post was also targeting the OP's post wrongly. The points i've made, as it is worded, stands, but there was an intention in assuming the worst of OP's post and I feel I should apologise. However, that post that you quoted, Lyger, was not aimed at the OP, but at the *numerous* posts that declared the mere existence of the LGBT community as a political thing in it's entirety, and I'll quote those examples. > Less virtue signaling and pc quotas in games would be wonderful. > I'd honestly prefer they just keep it all out of the *game.* :) Too many fires get started between people. Honestly, no offense to *anyone.* I would truly just rather leave this content in the real world. > > I'd honestly prefer they just keep it all out of the *game.* :) Too many fires get started between people. Honestly, no offense to *anyone.* I would truly just rather leave this content in the real world. > > Seriously. I really don't understand why this kind of thing adds anything to the game. > > And of course the debates that spur up after these comes of comments too (names removed because it's not a name and blame thing), but these quotes are **in this thread**, and that's who I made the post about. Because really, calling the existence of LGBT people "political" is..... I mean, how does anyone make that argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 There is a definite lgbt agenda that Anet is pushing. If Anet was neutral regarding this agenda, you wouldn't be seeing the rainbow Anet symbol during the month of June. Anet celebrated the gay marriage ruling. They changed a npc to a transgender. How about equal treatment Anet? How about changing a transgender npc back to heterosexual??? hahaha not going to happen because it is not pc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseofGilead.8907 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > There is a definite lgbt agenda that Anet is pushing. If Anet was neutral regarding this agenda, you wouldn't be seeing the rainbow Anet symbol during the month of June. Anet celebrated the gay marriage ruling. They changed a npc to a transgender. How about equal treatment Anet? How about changing a transgender npc back to heterosexual??? hahaha not going to happen because it is not pc. A person being transgender means they have chosen to be a gender different from the sex they were born as; their sexual orientation is not tied to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Okay let me be more specific. Let's have Anet introduce another transgender npc(male to female). Then let's have Anet have that character changed back to a male heterosexual. Just to be fair. never gonna happen... doesn't fit the agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > Okay let me be more specific. Let's have Anet introduce another transgender npc(male to female). Then let's have Anet have that character changed back to a male heterosexual. Just to be fair. > > never gonna happen... doesn't fit the agenda > That's called *erasure*, which is a political statement. It delegitimizes the fact that transgender people exist and denies factual reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 No, it is not erasure. It is saying that the "born that way" argument isn't 100 Percent factual. Of course, the lgbt agenda would say it is. Why not introcude some transspecies npcs? Let's have Rytlock divulge that he is actually an Asuran trapped in a Charr body. Then let out characters dialogue choices be only to praise him for his revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > No, it is not erasure. It is saying that the "born that way" argument isn't 100 Percent factual. Of course, the lgbt agenda would say it is. > > Why not introcude some transspecies npcs? Let's have Rytlock divulge that he is actually an Asuran trapped in a Charr body. Then let out characters dialogue choices be only to praise him for his revelation. > AKA: it is factually erasure, because transgender people objectively exist. The arguments used to delegitimize transgender people by using statements such as yours are, at it's core, erasure. It's not a political agenda to say LGBT people exist. It's absolutely an agenda to say "they don't know what they're talking about". Also nice slippery slope fallacy at the end there, changing the topic doesn't support your argument, it only weakens it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 It is factual that people claim to be another gender than their sex. It is not factual that their claim is truthful. There are different theories as to the cause of these claims. Delusional behavior or born this way.... the debate goes on....... The lgbt agenda would tell you that there is no debate and there is a 100 percent consensus among psychological community but that is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Malediktus.9250 said: > Problems the majority of the world does not care about. Anet needs to stop implementing politics in every corner of the game. Politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > It is factual that people claim to be another gender than their sex. It is not factual that their claim is truthful. There are different theories as to the cause of these claims. Delusional behavior or born this way.... the debate goes on....... The lgbt agenda would tell you that there is no debate and there is a 100 percent consensus among psychological community but that is wrong. I'm pretty sure all aspects of "delusion" regarding being transgender have been eliminated from the scientific community (that includes psychology), however just because there isn't a 100% consensus by scientists does not mean it's not fact. Climate change, for instance, is objective reality, yet it only has a 97% consensus within the scientific community, and **every reputable scientific journal and study confirms it's truth**, yet there isn't a 100% consensus. Vaccines do have a 100% scientific consensus in the fact that they don't cause autism and have no correlation with autism, however because of an objectively disproven paper that a scientist **admitted to forging the results**, there's an uprise of people who assume vaccines cause autism and thus put peoples lives in danger. So yes, for all intents and purposes, we can say "the claim that being a different gender than their biological sex is fact". Transgender used to be filed under mental illness in the united states as gender identity disorder, however, **it's since been removed**, and many countries have moved forward in their acceptance of transgender people. The fact that it's been studied and **removed** from the American Psychological Association's "Diagnostic and Statical Manual of Mental Disorders" shows that their claim is truthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Hahaha.... okay... Let's just ignore the psychologists who say it is delusional behavior because that doesn't fit the narrative. Of course climate change is an objective reality. We have had ice ages and periods of warmth on the earth. There is no agreed upon objective truth on the causes of climate change. Once again you ignore the scientists who don't agree with your narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrdeye.1028 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @castlemanic.3198 said: > > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > > It is factual that people claim to be another gender than their sex. It is not factual that their claim is truthful. There are different theories as to the cause of these claims. Delusional behavior or born this way.... the debate goes on....... The lgbt agenda would tell you that there is no debate and there is a 100 percent consensus among psychological community but that is wrong. > > I'm pretty sure all aspects of "delusion" regarding being transgender have been eliminated from the scientific community (that includes psychology), however just because there isn't a 100% consensus by scientists does not mean it's not fact. > > Climate change, for instance, is objective reality, yet it only has a 97% consensus within the scientific community, and **every reputable scientific journal and study confirms it's truth**, yet there isn't a 100% consensus. Vaccines do have a 100% scientific consensus in the fact that they don't cause autism and have no correlation with autism, however because of an objectively disproven paper that a scientist **admitted to forging the results**, there's an uprise of people who assume vaccines cause autism and thus put peoples lives in danger. > > So yes, for all intents and purposes, we can say "the claim that being a different gender than their biological sex is fact". Transgender used to be filed under mental illness in the united states as gender identity disorder, however, **it's since been removed**, and many countries have moved forward in their acceptance of transgender people. The fact that it's been studied and **removed** from the American Psychological Association's "Diagnostic and Statical Manual of Mental Disorders" shows that their claim is truthful. If you're objectively male and believe you're female, you're delusional. That's what a delusion is. In no other circumstance is a belief about one's self respected when it contradicts all the available evidence. Medical professionals won't say this, but only in a social and political environment where they will be demonized for doing so. Your argument only works in a society where people like you don't bully people for refusing to support your agenda. Now, that doesn't mean transsexuals are immoral or stupid or that they somehow don't deserve basic human respect. It just means they don't deserve special treatment because some people are upset by reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > Hahaha.... okay... Let's just ignore the psychologists who say it is delusional behavior because that doesn't fit the narrative. Of course climate change is an objective reality. We have had ice ages and periods of warmth on the earth. There is no agreed upon objective truth on the causes of climate change. Once again you ignore the scientists who don't agree with your narrative. [Climate change consensus of **97%** of climate scientists by NASA, one of the most respected facilities that deals with climate science on top of other aspects of science, including space.](https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/) And the below is from the American Psychological Association's website. [A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder.](http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx "apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx") Objective facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @nosleepdemon.1368 said: > Everything aside, ANet have made a pretty darn good game. Just sort out the story, yeah? :P Right? I don't see an agenda, I just see questionable writing. :tongue: If the diversity-kiss at the end of the Breachmaker had been Braham/Rox instead, I would still have said it was rushed and out of nowhere. And yet, more apropos because the two had some rapport until Rox fell out of use in the story. I dunno, maybe I'm in some weird spot of Schrodiner's Reader. While I don't notice/make a big deal of gender/sexuality issues when it comes to the story, I also ...*do* notice it? Like, overall, the writing and major character selection largely favors women: Jennah, Anise, Kas/Jory... At one point, most of Dragon's Watch was girl powered. Braham writes himself out, and eventually Canach and Rytlock become fixtures, so things balance out, but that's an entire expansion later. Meanwhile, the tally continued: Faolain, Caithe, Caithlain (and the *highly uncomfortable* domestic abuser relationship), Livia, Soulkeeper, Demmi and Val Wi. Even in death, Eir sends ripples into the storyline. But to say it "bothers" me would be an overstatement. And before we forget, even as a diversity champion, it still took 4+ years and a pending Elona expansion to get some actual ethnic diversity in hair and human faces. :unamused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 American Psychological Association voted that it is not a mental disorder. That is an objective fact. This only means that a majority of voting members believe that it is not a mental disorder. There are still psychologists who believe it is a mental disorder. If you load enough pro-lgbt members to vote it down doesn't mean that it is an objective truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @thrdeye.1028 said: > If you're objectively male and believe you're female, you're delusional. That's what a delusion is. In no other circumstance is a belief about one's self respected when it contradicts all the available evidence. Medical professionals won't say this, but only in a social and political environment where they will be demonized for doing so. Your argument only works in a society where people like you don't bully people for refusing to support your agenda. Now, that doesn't mean transsexuals are immoral or stupid or that they somehow don't deserve basic human respect. It just means they don't deserve special treatment because some people are upset by reality. **Medical professionals were the ones who said being transgender is not a delusion nor a mental disorder**. I linked it in the above post. They examined it and removed it from the DMS-V because **it was factually wrong to keep gender identity disorder in there**. Saying the very science that shows being transgender is factual would contradict itself if society weren't trying to push an agenda is very close to becoming a conspiracy theory. It was already in there, if the facts lined up that being transgender was a mental disorder, they wouldn't have removed it. However, the facts showed the truth: bring transgender is not a mental disorder. Thus, if it's not a mental disorder, it's not a delusion. Reality works against you on this one friend, but you're right that they deserve basic human respect (which btw includes representation within media). > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > American Psychological Association voted that it is not a mental disorder. That is an objective fact. This only means that a majority of voting members believe that it is not a mental disorder. There are still psychologists who believe it is a mental disorder. If you load enough pro-lgbt members to vote it down doesn't mean that it is an objective truth. So what I'm hearing is that you don't believe them because it doesn't fit your agenda.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 So does truth change everytime the consensus changes??? hmmmmm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalButt.5708 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Gay and lesbian people are not an "agenda." They exist. Deal with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > So does truth change everytime the consensus changes??? hmmmmm...... *Knowledge* changes, not truth. The truth has always been being transgender is not a mental disorder. However, knowledge hadn't yet caught up with truth, and it took the APA removing "gender identity disorder" from the DSM-V for knowledge to catch up with truth. Just because you have an agenda doesn't mean you should ignore reality and fact. Let me use your own words for how fitting and ironic it is: > @Dashingsteel.3410 said: > Once again you ignore the scientists who don't agree with your narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenooble.5014 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > @thrdeye.1028 said: > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > > @drgast.1469 said: > > > > Seriously, though, I think we all need to take a step back and discuss what's truly important here. Why aren't there more interracial couples in GW2? You really think a Charr never looked at an Asura and thought, "I want to hit that"? Seriously GW2, where is the realism?!?! > > > > > > That's one thing at times I kind of wonder actually. Just seem weird they're always paired with the same race. > > > The whole "can't crossbreed" doesn't matter because the whole point (mainly in this topic) is same gender relationships already can't breed. ESPECIALLY the Sylvaris that can't breed with each other no matter whether they look male or female as they were not made that way through the mother tree/grove/whichever. > > > > Even homosexuality is ultimately rooted in reproductive instincts which at least require another member of your own species. Just because you're not having sex for procreation doesn't mean you'll do it with anything. > > > > The Sylvari part is interesting though. I imagine the developers just went with something that would be familiar to humans who are after all the target audience for this game. > > > What I'm pretty much getting at is there's no reason let's say a charr wouldn't find a human attractive or a norn finding a sylvari or an asura one either. Crossbreeding can't be the argument. When I roleplay on my Charr Warrior (Barack Charrbama) he totally has a thing for the human ladies. Queen Jennah, where you at, guuuuuuuuuuurl?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castlemanic.3198 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 > @Chickenooble.5014 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > @thrdeye.1028 said: > > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > > > @drgast.1469 said: > > > > > Seriously, though, I think we all need to take a step back and discuss what's truly important here. Why aren't there more interracial couples in GW2? You really think a Charr never looked at an Asura and thought, "I want to hit that"? Seriously GW2, where is the realism?!?! > > > > > > > > That's one thing at times I kind of wonder actually. Just seem weird they're always paired with the same race. > > > > The whole "can't crossbreed" doesn't matter because the whole point (mainly in this topic) is same gender relationships already can't breed. ESPECIALLY the Sylvaris that can't breed with each other no matter whether they look male or female as they were not made that way through the mother tree/grove/whichever. > > > > > > Even homosexuality is ultimately rooted in reproductive instincts which at least require another member of your own species. Just because you're not having sex for procreation doesn't mean you'll do it with anything. > > > > > > The Sylvari part is interesting though. I imagine the developers just went with something that would be familiar to humans who are after all the target audience for this game. > > > > > > What I'm pretty much getting at is there's no reason let's say a charr wouldn't find a human attractive or a norn finding a sylvari or an asura one either. Crossbreeding can't be the argument. > When I roleplay on my Charr Warrior (Barack Charrbama) he totally has a thing for the human ladies. Queen Jennah, where you at, guuuuuuuuuuurl?! There is a canon interracial relationship (I think). In the departing, we find two souls: Nichalos and Yngvild. Nicholas: Commander! Things must have gone terribly wrong if you're here. Who are you? Nicholas: You don't remember? We were both in the fleet that attacked Mordremoth. Our ship was destroyed. All were lost. I... don't know what you're talking about. Yngvild: You have to find your way, then it'll all come back to you. Like we did. We helped each other find our names and our past. And in the process... we bonded. That doesn't make any sense Yngvild: I know. I'm supposed to join Raven. And he should go to be with his god. But we'd rather spend eternity with each other here. I suppose afterlife is what you make of it, too. I'm so confused. EDIT: I'M DYING I DIDN'T REALISE YOUR CHARR'S NAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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