Obtena.7952

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? > > > > > > > > > > > > I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Number are not subjective. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting) > > > > > > > > > > You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with. > > > > > > > > I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted > > > > > > > > > > There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes? > > > > > > > > So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's _not true_. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > "For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)" > > > > > > > > > > From the op. > > > > > > > > .. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be _not true_. > > > > > > > > Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. > > > > > > You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol. > > > > There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game. > > > > You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth. > > Odd you would think a meta web pages would have dps numbers must not be a good one. Nothing I have said should give you that impression. I asked you for the numbers that show ele can't be a successful choice since that was the claim you were challenging with the existence of the numbers ... and telling me things I don't think is also very dishonest but you already know that because I've already told you numerous times. > But core dose less dps then the eleit spec even the support eleit spec dose better dps all due to core weapons and effect getting nerfed. Even if that is true, it's not a reason to buff ele. > > I mean ya i want to see core ele buffed in such a way to NOT buff the elite spec. and to cut off any chase for the next elite spec to be balanced based off of core ele nerfs / buffs. I went though this before PoF with weaver and i went though this before HoT with tempest. Its a very bad system anet has made here and its all going to doom every thing to become the same if anet realty wants to balance things out and they will over time. It's only bad if you don't understand Anet can't create all options to match your criteria for class choice, even when the game changes. Anet can't cater to how individuals think the game should work. I like the little flavour of 'doom' you added as well ... because we all know GW2 is doomed if Anet doesn't do what you want right?

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? > > > > > > > > I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately. > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. > > > > > > > > > > Number are not subjective. > > > > > > > > Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting) > > > > > > You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with. > > > > I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted > > > > > > There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes? > > > > So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's _not true_. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it. > > > > > > "For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)" > > > > > > From the op. > > > > .. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be _not true_. > > > > Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. > > You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol. There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game. You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > > > > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > > > > > > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > > > > > > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > > > > > > > > > > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? > > > > I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately. > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. > > > > > > Number are not subjective. > > > > Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting) > > You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with. I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted > > There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes? So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's _not true_. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it. > > "For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)" > > From the op. .. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be _not true_. Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > > > > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. > > > > No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. > > > > I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it. > > > > So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all? I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately. > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content. > > Number are not subjective. Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > > > > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. > > > > That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with. > > Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong. No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's _not true_. That simply depends on who you team with. I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's _not true_. They are excluded because they team with people that _tell_ them they can't play it.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > That is know as power creep and p2w. > > > > If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. > > > > There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it. > > Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content. That's _not true_ ... the only people that are excluded are the people that make choices that lead to teaming with people that tell them how to play.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > That is know as power creep and p2w. If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you. I get you have some massive hang up about power creep and P2W ... but it doesn't mean ele isn't a meaningful choice for players. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

> @"Jski.6180" continually quotes Obtena saying: > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. Yes, this is true ... thanks for continually posting it. Maybe at some point you start to understand it.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >There are truth for adding in content behind pay walls that are stronger then what ppl have already payed for because the core game is just as valid as all of the added payed content. > > > > > > > > You keep trying to paint picture that the core options aren't valid in the game because they are weaker than especs ... but that's _not true_ because you can be JUST as successful with non-expansion options as you can with expansion options. That's the dishonesty of your approach. Something having weaker performance than something else is not enough of a reason to buff it. > > > > > > You said it was ok a few post back do i need to post it over and over? > > > > You seem to have a massive comprehension problem. Nothing I have said in what you quoted from me contradicts what I am saying here. > > > > > > You said it was ok for core to be weaker then espec. I am sry that not going away. There is a set of logic that comes with that point of view and you cant apologized it away. Yeah I did, and that doesn't change what I'm saying and I'm NOT apologetic for it because it's true and it's how this game is designed and works. > Core ele was fine till they added in "REQUIREMENT" class that most ppl would call massive power creep and P2W. And that's the dishonesty of this thread ... it's still fine because performance differences don't eliminate those choices as meaningful so people can choose them and be successful. You want to make this about P2W and power creep. Those things don't impact people's ability to choose how they want to play and be successful.

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > So you're whole goal here is to prevent power creep (because I'm not going to argue core isn't viable enough) by giving ele a unique mechanic? That's suspect considering I JUST quoted you as saying core ele can't be buffed without affecting it's especs ... > > > > > > > > See how you are contradicting yourself there? You want to PREVENT power creep with this unique mechanic ... to BUFF core ele. I'm just going to let that simmer. > > > > > > Dude, are you ok? > > > > I'm fine. I just don't think it's reasonable to claim you want a change class mechanic just for ele to prevent power creep and to buff it. That doesn't make sense. > > > > I get your argument is that profession mechanics are a nice powerful add on to classes that bring something extra to the table on top of the rest of the class. Swapping attunements does that. They _always_ did that. The complaint here is contingent on the existence of ele especs, not the lack of 'bringing something extra' to the class. > > > > No, its not on top of. It's a whole replacement of weapon skills. All it does is dilute 2 sets of weapon skills into 4, but because of balance it doesn't really add anything. Having 8 equivalent weapons most certainly IS a significant addition above 2 and it's still most certainly true that core vs. especs are variationally significant making them meaningful choices to players.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. > > > > > > > > Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. > > > > > > > > > >There are truth for adding in content behind pay walls that are stronger then what ppl have already payed for because the core game is just as valid as all of the added payed content. > > > > You keep trying to paint picture that the core options aren't valid in the game because they are weaker than especs ... but that's _not true_ because you can be JUST as successful with non-expansion options as you can with expansion options. That's the dishonesty of your approach. Something having weaker performance than something else is not enough of a reason to buff it. > > You said it was ok a few post back do i need to post it over and over? You seem to have a massive comprehension problem. Nothing I have said in what you quoted from me contradicts what I am saying here.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. > > > > Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. > > > >There are truth for adding in content behind pay walls that are stronger then what ppl have already payed for because the core game is just as valid as all of the added payed content. You keep trying to paint picture that the core options aren't valid in the game because they are weaker than especs ... but that's _not true_ because you can be JUST as successful with non-expansion options as you can with expansion options. That's the dishonesty of your approach. Something having weaker performance than something else is not enough of a reason to buff it.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > > > > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. > > > > No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. > > > > No your just saying performance now you said your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. We are back to that convenient of you forgetting what you said before. Listen, you're being pretty dishonest with me here ... I've made it VERY clear why performance differences between core and especs, weaker OR stronger are not a problem. You are NOT going to get me to admit things I don't believe. I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. That INCLUDES if they are weaker and it ALSO includes if they are STRONGER ... because it doesn't matter for being successful in the game. The game is designed to allow both situations.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed. > > Then your ok with core classes being weaker then especs. No, I'm ok with performance differences between core and especs because of how the game is designed. You can choose LOTS of things and be successful with them, especs or not, expansions or not. > Core ele was fine till they added in "REQUIREMENT" class that most ppl would call massive power creep and P2W. And that's the dishonesty ... it's STILL fine because it's a meaningful choice people can play and be successful with.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. > > > > No, I never said that either. > > What are you saying? Performance differences between core and especs are not a problem because of how the game is designed.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > Your saying a requirement is needed to be a stronger class then ones with our requirements. No, I never said that either. I am saying that performance differences between core and especs don't matter because of how the game is designed.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. > > > > Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > > > > > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. > > > > They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it. > > Your saying its p2w. This is my point. I never said that ... and that's why I'm calling you out for being dishonest. If you don't like it, then stop telling me things I NEVER said.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > > > > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > > > > > Not weaker. > > > > That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > Right your the requirement for especs is something you buy with money and some how you do not see that a problem. Because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful. You keep asking me the same question, you get the same answer. > The core classes had meaningful choices way before especs. If any thing the core classes has more ability to very before the especs. They are still meaningful choices because what is meaningful to some people has nothing to do with performance. Again, we are full circle here ... Anet can't make the game so that any option you want fits your criteria to choose it.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > > > > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? > > > > What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'? > > You have to have an expansion to get the elite spec so you cant have them with out one so i am not sure what your saying "without expansions." > > Not weaker. That doesn't change what I said though. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be successful, regardless of how you get an espec. Therefore, it's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. I get you are miffed that you think especs are more powerful than core and what to take issue with it ... but that's just your hangup; the game doesn't prevent using ele as a choice and being successful playing it. Performance differences are NOT a reason to give ele unique class mechanic that's different than especs.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? > > > > because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it. > > Then an expansion is a valid requirement for a better class? What I said is true with or without expansions. What do you mean 'better'?

> @"Jski.6180" said: > Why is it ok for core classes to be weaker then there elite spec.? because there is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > > > > > Why not? > > > (need to add more to post) > > > > Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. > > You do not even need classes for that you could have 1 class in the game and there still meaningful choice because meaningful choice is any time you can do any thing even slight different. Its just a slogan not a real thing. That doesn't make sense ... classes and especs exist for variety, not performance differences. > Why is it ok for core ele to be weaker then tempest and weaver? Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. That's literally the answer. It doesn't need to be. There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? > > > > Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. > > Why not? > (need to add more to post) Because it doesn't prevent people from taking it as a meaningful choice to play and be successful with. The requirement for balance between core and especs is just a contrived reason to justify changes you want.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > > > > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. You realty need to stop calling ppl dishonest over and over its very rude. > > > > I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that ISN'T TRUE. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and you JUST proved it by contradicting yourself by saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself. > > > > > > Then how would it fix any thing if you did not think it was part of the over all suggestion? Because core ele not being balanced to to especs isn't a problem. You can suggest whatever change you want ... but if it's not solving a problem, it's not a fix.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > > > > > > > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on here ... your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance. Now you're all in to things that widen that gap because suggesting there is no CD on ele swaps is massively broken. This is why I'm riding you so hard in this thread, because in the truth is that you simply want buffs and using untrue statements to justify it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be an unique mechanic if they make it a 3 sec cd swap for tempest and weaver but not for ele. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but that has NOTHING to do with my point, so I will just repeat it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your whole position is that ele needs it's own unique mechanic because it _lags_ the especs in performance but your suggestion here doesn't close that gap between ele and it's especs ... it makes that gap _larger_. That's why I'm saying you are being dishonest. You give a reason to make a change, then you make a suggestion for change that would result in the exact OPPOSITE of the reason you gave to make it. That's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > Dishonest about what? How would making the cd between swaps not the swaps them self longer for tempest much like weaver (with out the cdr of the swap them self) make the gap between ele core and tempest bigger? How would letting core ele get full benefit from all of its atument trait lines all of the time and not just during the given atument make the gap bigger? > > > > > > > > > > Maybe your confused with my suggestion? > > > > > > > > There is no confusion. > > > > > > > > > > Core ele needs its own unique mechanic and fast swaps would be a good start > > > > > > > > Hold on ... you said ele needs a unique mechanic for balance ... now you are proposing a unique mechanic that is the OPPOSITE of balancing ele. You can't honestly think no CD on attunement swaps on ele is in any possible way balanced EVEN to it's especs. If you believe that's balanced, then clearly you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > So you AREN'T interested in balance, even though you say you are. That's dishonest. This just get worse and worse. Not only are you comfortable using untrue statements to justify your reason for change, now you are comfortable with ideas that go against the very reason you stand by those untrue reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are and tempest mostly has a gobble cd of 3 sec in-between swaps like weaver but normal cd when swaping out of an atument. How is that not balancing the classes? How is that dishonest? > > > > So this whole thread you are complaining about balance between core and especs and saying ele needs a unique class mechanic ... and now you are saying ele keeps swap the way it is? THAT is what is dishonest here ... is that you are just looking for changes that aren't even related to why you say they need to happen. At this point, no one can take anything you are saying seriously. > > No... that just part of the over all suggestion. I KNOW it's part of the over all suggestion, and that suggestion is based on something that is _not true_. Ele do not need a unique class mechanic to balance ... and YOU just proved it by contradicting yourself saying core ele keeps the swap the way they are. Even YOU don't believe the things you are saying because you contradict yourself between your reasoning for change and the changes you suggest.