Delofasht.4231

If the sPvP crowd is already generally avoiding pure burst builds, then adjusting them for WvW is going to have a null effect on that mode. Burst across the board a bit too extreme and should be toned back a bit, require more build up and reliance on getting to those 20+ stacks of might on self and vulnerability on the target. Require some reliance on setting up a boon strip situation into a burst sequence. Not every fight needs to play out as a giant burst opening into a reset followed by second round of burst, which is pretty much what I see every fight, and either win or lose on that myself. I would like a bit more setup and exchange before the fights accelerate into a mosh pit of death. Feels bad when every fight feels scripted.

No Cele Chrono builds that happens to be the strongest that I have seen as of yet, but it probably works just fine for either solo or group play so long as you pick utilities and traits to help friends in group; high mobility and burst is the way of the solo roamer. I would probably opt for Illusions instead of inspiration most of the time either way, having access to versatile shatters seems super important to me, along with the flexible build choices that support a few different playstyles.

Try it long enough and you will figure out some way to make it really work though I am sure. Good luck!

Nope, giant balance mess. Mirage with Chrono shield just to name one?!

That said, I have always wanted dual wield Pistol Mesmer, maybe next Elite Spec.

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> At LV 80 every 15 points of Ferocity adds 1% to critical damage. How about in Competitive Modes every 15 points of Ferocity adds 0.5% critical damage?

This is by far the simplest way of adjusting balance in PvP modes, it affects all the problem builds simultaneously, all of the problems are around these burst builds which rely on huge damage spikes from ferocity and other critical hit bonuses. Given the WvW playground modes like no downstate, why not have a No crit damage week, find out if vulnerability and conditions can beat the full tank builds without Power builds needing added cushions.

I do not like the idea of diminishing returns, because the problem seems to be mostly centered on one shot builds and sustained critical hit and dmg. If that really is the problem, then another solution may be to buff toughness to reduce critical hit damage taken by an additional percentage (basically the opposite of ferocity). This encourages players to use toughness for it’s intended purpose, but also has the side effect of encouraging more condition builds (since those circumvent toughness).

I have always and will always main a Mesmer on my accounts, but want to say that I agree that the huge range of easy one shot builds from many of the professions is uninteresting. It doesn’t feel good to be killed without getting a chance to respond, regardless of the profession. Worse yet, it gets boring really quickly when you killing someone instantly without response all the time. So while this is annoying, people bore of it after playing for awhile and go play something else (usually a different game).

Counter play design is the hallmark of good gameplay, and it has gone back all the way to original fighting games, where the outcry against one shot or high damage, low effort moves was brought in line such that they were easier to avoid or counter. That really should apply to what we have in this game as well, but it is reliant on making sure that damage abilities end up staggered a bit such that they cannot happen all at the same time, or that the abilities that can do not end up being an instant kill.

For Mesmer, suggestions have been given for how to rework both visual clutter and changes to how damage is applied in burst to create delays. In short, remove reliance on clones for damage and distraction, make them only a visual indicator of the potential damage of the Mesmer (untargetable, unkillable, no health bars, just pretty sparkly generators). I could write up a full description of how to do this but it would get long and need to be done in steps, on the programming side of things it is just copy and paste code from one ability to another, and adjust traits to redirect from on hit of clones to on next Mesmer attack apply effect. This would decouple the damage burst or condition spam being from multiple sources to just the Mesmer (which would make many runes and sigil work appropriately for the profession) and reduce the visual clutter of health bars. Burst damage need only be reduced by lowering the effect of multipliers, which are always the major issue in any game, reduce them for each profession, not just those doing the most burst right now. Increase sustained damage by a bit to compensate for PvE, but this burst needs to be reduced across the board, game is unfun being so highly reliant on bursts.

To me, that clearly illustrates WHY they are a problem, because it is the perception of the masses, and that has more sway over the balance of the profession as a whole than it has any right to. This is why they should remove elements that are perceived as a problem and replace them in such a way that they are not a problem. The defense for people who liked Phantasms that never died was “oh but they are so easy to see, dodge, and destroy.”, which is what is now being used for clones.

To this point, as long as clones are used to "confound" enemies, the power they hold is always going to be viewed as a problem and honestly as a weakness to the design of the Mesmer. Make them untargetable/unkillable, do no damage, and be a visual indicator of the Mesmer's potential damage/crowd control at any given point in time. More clones, means more danger. That allows them to adjust our defensives based around our having clones appropriately, without having to design for them not being up ever (AoE spam killing them all) or being up all the time (no AoE or targeting of the clones taken place by enemy players).

Edit: This may not be the most popular opinion of our profession, and it is funny that is nearly the same things I said about 7 years ago. We were balanced around Deceptive Evasion and clones existing, so builds that didn't rely on it were generally accepted as weaker. People complained about the same things regarding Mesmers back then as well. It seems we will always be linked to clones and their annoyances to other players and our weakness being reliant on their existence.

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> Infinite Horizon visuals and clone evade should stay. Aesthetics are everything and I strongly believe this is one of the main flavours that mirage is all about.

>

> But if most/all damage/cc/etc was shifted on to player ambush, then it really should be minor, otherwise it would be left as an almost purely cosmetic GM major trait which doesn't make sense.

Adjusting most of the damage to the player Ambush would be a solid approach, and allow IH to be a Minor of interest, superspeed on dodge not being core to the specialization seems silly, but IH feels like it should be core to the specialization as well, so /shrug. I do think clones gaining Mirage Cloak and being immune to everything for that split second does feel good though, that should stay if they move it to minor, as it still does something for the profession as a whole then.

Alternatively, buffing DC and EM slightly seems fair as well, I would love to see some more superspeed on EM, as a “slight” nod to the idea of being illusive by being fast, or maybe a longer duration on Mirage Cloak from EM... either would offset the weakness incurred by choosing it. Dune Cloak could perhaps make the clone deaths make mirrors with a short duration... seems like the kind of slightly defensive fight length increasing effect that Mirage needs right now. These last few thoughts have been late night thinking, so they are rough ideas.

So, this whole thread pretty much revolves around burden of knowledge when playing against Mesmer due to clones, and Mesmer being reliant on clone production to do damage. What if they were to make clones untargetable, do no damage and apply no conditions, and funnel that damage into shatters that make the next Mesmer attack do extra damage or CC. This is kind of a fusion of my existing suggestion but also solves the issues with clones never reaching their targets and clones confusing new players simultaneously.

Such an idea shifts damage from AI to player control and timing, provides multiple counterplay options in active and passive defenses for enemies, and reduces visual health bar clutter. Ta da, problems solved, targeting and damage issues both resolved, tuning can focus on shatter damage output reliability increase and damage taken by the Mesmer being increased as clones no longer likely to take a hit intended for the Mesmer.

Of course the argument generally against such ideas is that this would have already been considered by the dev team. It may have, but at a point in the game where such changes were wholly unnecessary or extreme.

I do miss the Glamour trait, seemed so fitting with Mesmer in general. Having it back as reduction to cooldown and maybe adding some random boons or conditions to enemies per tick/pass through would be pretty awesome (max number for pass throughs). Mesmers used to have boon share builds, but pretty much cannot do that anymore, bringing that back would be fun.

Additional stealth would not ever be appreciated by the masses, PvPers and WvW duelists would be up in arms about that for sure.

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> That is why instead of a clone requirement, you could put an ICD on it. I know most people aren't big fans of ICDs and for good reason. However, the point of additional 'clone production' traits should be to provide a potential alternative to deceptive evasion, NOT to make it so it is a mediocrely adequate buff/trait ONLY when you have deceptive evasion selected as well.

>

> The players are better at finding build/class potential than most give them credit for.

> Additionally, one of the main reasons that IH is currently used so much with both Condi AND Power builds is simply because there is no other good choice.

We have established that IH is more versatile, known, and the reason why this thread exists.

Players are good at copying someone else's build and playing that. Very few are good at making a new build work and determining the appropriate responses to various situations without being told how to do so, that is why build sites exist and what most people follow.

ICDs are not good, it always feels terrible using up an ICD when you do not want to, especially on offensive traits.

Regardless of how precisely we identify the issues, and even provide feedback, we have received little of any of the changes desired. My history of change suggestions have always centered on changes engineered to increase counterplay. Also, Mesmer is no different than any other profession, we have weaknesses, and lots of them, but most people do not learn what they are, how to identify them, and how to exploit those weaknesses.

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Delofasht.4231" said:

> > Self Deception is actually fine though, not always a pick, but an interrupt build with sword can greatly utilize it. Dueling/Dom/Mirage where picking up the interrupt traits and using sword and Greatsword for their interrupts and knockbacks with burst and lots of vulnerability and crit can work fairly well in many situations (but weak against some enemies). The play is the thing with using Self Deception, it requires a little fore planning on laying down some kind of clone first, which feels great to me. It is a well designed trait, not overpowered, but fully useable, just not free power. It is a trait that has some real power in a build that does not need regeneration all the time, or wants to grab something other than Deceptive Evasion.

> Its so wrong :)

> To make a clone you must have a clone that exist and wasnt isntakilled by random auto attack AND use a DECEPTION skill to create it. They are not just bad but their cooldowns are insane long to use it "just for a clone", this trait not just "not overtuned" its just useless in 95% of cases.You dont need to be genius to understand that trait is not worth taking, ever, unless other options are vastly worse. This trait would be good only if they give it cooldown reduction to deception skills,this would make a lot of sense since with all this nerfs on deceptions and jaunt wouldnt look as bad as now.As an example of similar trait would be

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Brawler%27s_Tenacity

I get where you are coming from, but if you actually sword ambush into jaunt on the target followed by Sand through Glass, you have 3 clones, a small range advantage, and a shatter burst lined up. It is not a huge 10k burst like other professions pushing 2 buttons, but it can be around 6 to 8k in the right build (crit depending). That is not bad for being all done in less than 2 seconds and being immune for 1.5 seconds of it. Other options are Illusionary Leap/Swap into Jaunt, Ambush and Mind Wrack. These are just two of the very common starts, any clone button into a combo is easy with Deception utilities and Self Deception. Problem still remaining is that we do so much less damage per button press compared to other professions and they tend to have lower CDs on their big damage bursts.

Just saying, it may not be meta yet, but Mirage has a lot of play potential, just needs players that can navigate it and may not be strong enough for certain tiers of sPvP (totally fine in WvW). Funny thing about this is, IH isn’t even needed for these combos and does not particularly benefit such a build, where Dune Cloak or Elusive Mind can fill more important roles. This is why focusing on the GM traits are important here, where IH just feels and looks better for the elite profession and does not do a lot outside of condition builds but looks really awesome.

A full redesign at this point seems terrible, as is I lost my favored bunker build of really old, and the builds we have are fun to play, but lack the power of other professions pressing one or two buttons. We have to press like a dozen to do what others do with 2, and that would be fine, except that all of our damage is easily avoided and much of their damage is not. Balance doesn’t mean doing the same with each press, but being at least playing by the same rules, if so many abilities are unavoidable or very difficult to avoid, some of a Mesmer abilities should as well.

That said, my solution to shatter and clones was to have damage dealing shatters run to the Mesmer instead of at the enemy, shattering to bolstering the next attack applying the effect of the shatter (Mind Wrack damage or CoF Confusion stacks). Diversion would remain running at the enemy (it is crowd control and should be more easily avoided). Increased reliability of damage while also making more counterplay opportunities for perceptive opponents. Dodge at clones running at you, block or other defensive if they run to the Mesmer (who is now easily spotted when going for damage). Then lining up damage for after the enemy tries to avoid some other ability becomes and actual play.

The above shifts the damage away from clones and to the Mesmer to do their damage instead. It also opens the door for holding the attack for after the defensive the enemy pops to wear off... just counterplay options and potential for both parties.

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Delofasht.4231" said:

> > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"Jables.4659" said:

> > > > > > @"Delofasht.4231" said:

> > > > > > Infinite Horizon becoming the minor would make the remaining traits much more interesting for builds

> > > > >

> > > > > I firmly believe that Infinite Horizon is and has been the main reason for Mirage's perceived OPness since pof launch. It makes it much more difficult for players to track the real Mesmer while simultaneously encouraging passive play.

> > > >

> > > > IH wasn't used in pvp until EM got smiter's booned.

> > > With all damage nerfs mesmer recieved it became impossible to play without IH, even with IH power mirage is pretty bad, at least if you are playing EU. Na is a meme anyway

> >

> > That really reinforces what we are saying here, that IH does not provide the damage increase that many seem to think, it is chosen for it’s utility. It is taken to have some extra debilitating conditions like vulnerability for power builds or to sometimes save a clone from an AoE hit that would wipe them all out. It is why EM was the main choice until it simply became too bad, which is still fine for soloing champions and such in PvE.

> In case of scepter and staff - it does add more damage and the only way to somehow keep pressure on your enemies. **After all nerf on mesmer personal,ambush,confusion,weapons damage you simply cannot hope to kill anyone without IH.**

> Power builds barely benefit from IH in terms of damage. More like for daze spam,without producing lots of clones its pretty useless trait.

> Just like trait self-deception is kitten bad, it doesnt help to make clones, deceptions are bad and require you to alrdy have a clone ...

> Mirage traits are just really bad, not only grandmaster traits

Yes in Condition builds and on weapons designed to apply conditions it does prove as a damage increase, but power weapons do not particularly benefit from IH.

Self Deception is actually fine though, not always a pick, but an interrupt build with sword can greatly utilize it. Dueling/Dom/Mirage where picking up the interrupt traits and using sword and Greatsword for their interrupts and knockbacks with burst and lots of vulnerability and crit can work fairly well in many situations (but weak against some enemies). The play is the thing with using Self Deception, it requires a little fore planning on laying down some kind of clone first, which feels great to me. It is a well designed trait, not overpowered, but fully useable, just not free power. It is a trait that has some real power in a build that does not need regeneration all the time, or wants to grab something other than Deceptive Evasion.

The main problems with any of these other traits simply stem from other professions being slightly overtuned. Several of the elite specializations and many single push high damage abilities should probably be tuned back a bit to allow for more nuanced play. It is not exciting to see people get knocked down into 20k damage over the course of a second and a half by any profession, especially not as frequently as it is with the low CD on these attacks.

My focus is on whatever is needed to keep things mostly balanced and not end up with a build that ends up being overtuned, because ANet tends to overnerf Mesmer when it gets strong in any way. See my other posts in the past to get an understanding of my stance.

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> ^ Interesting idea. But if the clones run to the Mesmer instead of the target, how are shatters now applied to the target?

On the Mesmer’s next attack, so it can be held for timing the shot. It should greatly increase the reliability of damage shatters. Diversion would remain functioning as it is currently, this gives enemy players a clear idea of what is coming in those clones and gives them the ability to plan their response (running to Mesmer means damage, coming at them means Daze). It would allow them to try and place AoE on where the real Mesmer is when shattering for Mind Wrack or CoF as well. Counterplay everywhere, and intuitive at that.

The idea is seeking a balanced approach that solves several build issues with burst and sequencing of attacks for counterplay. It also gives ranged builds a way to use those shatter reliably, which should make any ranged build more consistent damage wise against skilled opponents and AI both. Imagine being able to shoot the enemy with Greatsword from ranged and get those shatter damages without needing to blink into the enemy to do it. The only change to make it work for Scepter would be having the clones spawn near the Mesmer _instead_ of in melee range with the opponent (how it was in very early stages of the design as I understand it). The thing is, an observant opponent will see those clones going to the Mesmer and respond with a block or damage reduction ability, so there is just lots of potential for response on both sides.

A solid ranged build as an option would really be reliant on Shatter skills not making the clones have to run miles before exploding, which can also be destroyed before getting there or dodged through. What if the clones ran to the Mesmer and made it’s next attack do increased damage (Mind Wrack), or apply Confusion (CoF), to enemies around your target. Then the telegraphing of the attacks remain, reveals the location of the Mesmer for the bads that cry about the profession since the beginning of the game, and potentially makes a ranged build actually work. This could be a core change or just a change to one GM trait to allow for a fully new build (replacing a trait that is almost never chosen maybe).

The implications of such a change could be really interesting for how the Mesmer is played.

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Jables.4659" said:

> > > > @"Delofasht.4231" said:

> > > > Infinite Horizon becoming the minor would make the remaining traits much more interesting for builds

> > >

> > > I firmly believe that Infinite Horizon is and has been the main reason for Mirage's perceived OPness since pof launch. It makes it much more difficult for players to track the real Mesmer while simultaneously encouraging passive play.

> >

> > IH wasn't used in pvp until EM got smiter's booned.

> With all damage nerfs mesmer recieved it became impossible to play without IH, even with IH power mirage is pretty bad, at least if you are playing EU. Na is a meme anyway

That really reinforces what we are saying here, that IH does not provide the damage increase that many seem to think, it is chosen for it’s utility. It is taken to have some extra debilitating conditions like vulnerability for power builds or to sometimes save a clone from an AoE hit that would wipe them all out. It is why EM was the main choice until it simply became too bad, which is still fine for soloing champions and such in PvE.

The nerfs did not make IH a necessity, but the only real choice out of the options for many builds. There are some builds that can keep bleeding up for Dune Cloak without being in melee range through dueling trait line with crit illusions so the increase on other conditions like vulnerability, weakness, or slow end up lasting longer. The players utilizing this are taking advantage of some small mathematical advantage for increasing their damage passively, and not trying to play to players being bad and losing the Mesmer in a sea of clones that use the same kind of attack (in case others didn’t know, the animation of clones is slightly slower than that of the Mesmer with IH).

> @"Jables.4659" said:

> > @"Delofasht.4231" said:

> > Infinite Horizon becoming the minor would make the remaining traits much more interesting for builds

> I firmly believe that Infinite Horizon is and has been the main reason for Mirage's perceived OPness since pof launch. It makes it much more difficult for players to track the real Mesmer while simultaneously encouraging passive play.

IH is not fooling anyone who has played the game for more than a few weeks in PvP or WvW. The moment you look for the Mesmer that is not following the same pattern of attack you have spotted the real one. For most professions that means dropping into stealth or a block for a sec to look around. The perception by people who do not take the time to learn is a problem. It would be like me accusing another profession of being overpowered because I am unfamiliar with how they work... this is exactly the issue Mesmer has always faced, those who have not played it or paid attention to the game do not seem to realize it’s weaknesses so they see it as having none.

> @"otto.5684" said:

> If we make IH base line it will be the meta for PvE for extra damage. Elusive mind for PvP and the third Trait for power.with IH as base, if we further buff dune cloak damage will probably be too high in PvE.

IH being baseline making Mirage meta does not really make much sense here, as the extra gain in damage should be insignificant compared to other current meta builds of other professions. Also, has anyone else done some napkin math for Dune Cloak versus IH? It is not that Dune Cloak is bad, it is just less versatile and limited in range, solve the range by adding the bleeds to the area around a clone or applied to enemies hit by and around the next Mesmer attack, to make it equally useful for range and melee builds. This is a flaw in opportunity cost, and actually less about whether one is better than another in a stand and shoot comparison at point blank range (IH is always better when ranged on a non-moving target, most PvE).

> @"yusayu.3629" said:

>

> Honestly, they should just reduce the duration that you are exhausted or remove the exhaustion and give the trait some other drawback, like an actual cooldown.

>

Such a cooldown is basically invisible, and so many of the Mesmer traits have these kinds of hidden cooldowns that relying on them in clutch situations is difficult if not impossible to effectively utilize. Passive traits feel like minor traits, often feel like something that should have just been in the profession from the start, but active ones that make using your abilities at the right time are much more attractive and reliable.

The exhaustion is annoying, but it is acceptable, if it just meant surviving a bit more, but using Elusive Mind to actually break a stun may as well be a death sentence. It may not kill you instantly, but in a few seconds one is going to need that follow up dodge and it simply is not going to be there. The design feels awkward when something meant to help keep you alive ends up killing you instead. Thus simply adding a bit more power into the trait but in a different way may be far more beneficial. The idea is to avoid having too much stun break potential but still have a trait that feels good to use.

Interesting ideas here overall, the GM traits could be focused on dodges, as they already somewhat are.

One point brought up is that of removing shatters for Mirage, which honestly I had never even considered. Such a change would require far more work than anything we are discussing in simply changing or adding a GM trait though, and would require tons of ideation and iteration to refine such a concept, then implementation would become troublesome. I believe it would be easier to request our GM trait balancing as a response to the changes to phantasms so as to make the elite profession more varied and interesting to play.

Currently, Dune Cloak may not be as bad as it feels in certain builds, but it still lacks quite a bit of consistency and loses value anytime the player isn't close to the target and utilizing a Mirage Cloak. This reduces it's value significantly, and the most simple way to resolve this deficiency, that I can think of, would be to have each clone alive also apply a single stack of bleeding around it's location when the Mesmer gains Mirage Cloak. This has a benefit for the trait, as it then scales with clones in play as well as with the endurance generation, in effect increasing it's versatility as well as the damage output. After such a change, if it turns out too strong reducing the number of stacks applied by the Mesmer itself could easily be reduced if 6 stacks at point blank ended up being too strong.

Once again, Elusive Mind still feels lackluster and could benefit from gaining an effect of Chaos Armor or something after the Mirage Cloak ends. It just needs a little something on the defensive end or an offensive effect to balance out the penalty of 100% endurance reduction. IF it can get balanced in such a way then it would prove a very viable option for a bunker build.

> @"lordorinko.6978" said:

> Maybe, just maybe if the mesmer weren't so disgusting to play against in pvp they would be less harsh to the class. But evasion, dodge, invis, one shot bursts, condi cleanses, TARGETING DISRUPTION (in a fcking mmorpg btw) is not enough for a class i guess. Yeah mesmer needs buff since they can still one shot from invis and go invis again and do all the other stuff.

Mesmer lacks condi cleanse heavily, unless giving up their damage with Inspiration trait line, making them not do one shot burst damage anymore. In order to do one shot burst damage, Mesmer need to use up 2 of their utility skills, be running Greatsword, the target to not have a passive block or damage reduction, and be running a specific build. Go watch the Shorts video on how it works, easy to avoid the damage, and once avoided it takes 15 to 20 seconds to line it up again while avoiding being one shot themselves. Target disruption is a non issue, use target previous target keybind when they drop target and continue on. Rather than say l2p like most people, I am willing to actually give you the quick breakdown of how to beat the thing you are struggling against, at least half the time (one shot builds tend to be 50/50 match ups regardless of skill).

That said, if the question is, “Should big burst or CC be telegraphed in a game like this?” Yes, I believe CC should be telegraphed and have a travel time so it can be avoided, likewise, large bursts should be telegraphed for a bit longer prior to landing. Now, please try not to derail the thread. Do you have any input on the grandmaster traits and how they could be enhanced so that one single trait is not omnipresent in all game modes?

> @"yusayu.3629" said:

> I also don't like how objectively necessary IH is, and feel like it should be part of the baseline Mirage (i.e. one of the Minor Traits). This would require some major rebalancing, especially for PvP, though.

>

> What if the replacement had something to do with interrupts, or gave Mirage some decent condi cleanse?

Interrupt interactions would play well with other Mesmer lines quite well actually. I do agree that condition cleanse tends to be pretty lacking for Mesmer overall and especially so for Mirage, while we have options, often they feel like weaker versions of other professions cleanse.

On a different note, Infinite Horizon may not be as necessary as we think, but due to that insane versatility of the trait, play often feels much worse not having it. Without it, durability of clones for PvE is diminished, which may mean less to many builds, but quite important if one isn’t running Deceptive Evasion.

I believe the assessment we have regarding the GM traits are not wrong overall though, IH feels fitting to the profession and is almost omnipresent. Elusive Mind and Dune Cloak feel weaker or are far more niche and thus end up picked very rarely, if at all, simply due to not being versatile enough.

Alright, more ways to adjust things: Dune Cloak could drop enemy targeting on the Mesmer, this would introduce some versatility to the trait and be useful in PvE and PvP situations; Elusive Mind could provide longer Super Speed and remove movement impairment effects in addition to cleansing one single damaging condition. Both very minor buffs that do not directly increase the damage of the profession overall.

Could have all the ideas in the world here though, but unless an ANet dev is reading this then it probably will not matter, and even if they do the track record for changes that needed to happen (like the phantasm one) tend to take place many years after they are proposed. I gave that suggestion back before Scarlet’s War because it was easy to see how dropping triple phantasm and just using everything to stay alive while they destroyed the enemy was a thing (used to have one hell of an agressive bunker build with triple defender, lol). It only took... like 4 years before they implemented the change to phantasms, which still have a lot of restrictions on getting them into play. Realistically, we should not hope for much I suppose, but without giving them ideas we cannot expect they will come up with them.

> @"yusayu.3629" said:

> I also don't like how objectively necessary IH is, and feel like it should be part of the baseline Mirage (i.e. one of the Minor Traits). This would require some major rebalancing, especially for PvP, though.

>

> What if the replacement had something to do with interrupts, or gave Mirage some decent condi cleanse?

Some mention that IH has been suggested several times already to become a minor, which probably does mean too much work for them to adjust so much. Second option is to add some strength to the other options, which means buffs, condition cleanse could be further improved on Elusive Mind, or they could make it reduce the cooldowns of deceptions when using EM (that would make it viable and good, even with the exhaustion). Dune Cloak could straight benefit from some slight added strength... something slightly defensive, like reducing the CD on distortion by a second with each Mirage Cloak gain (should result in reducing the cooldown by maybe 10 seconds maximum)