Vilin.8056

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Vilin.8056" said:

> > So 2 phantasms + 3 Clones plus a doubled up damage sword damage, all that extra might buff, evasion, projectile block just from your normal rotations THEN plus all the extra utilities isn't good enough?

> >

> > Then the added bonus that you double up as a boon chrono with a swap of trinkets.

> >

> > It's only natural that some of it got nerfed, but it's still very powerful for PvE.

>

> Who cares about pve? You can even get level 1 weapons, be naked and still do good.

If you fixate yourself in only one type of game mode then yes, some class/build would definitely become vulnerable.

So 2 phantasms + 3 Clones plus a DOUBLED up sword damage, all that extra might buff, evasion, projectile block just from your normal rotations THEN plus all the extra utilities isn't good enough?

Then the added bonus that you double up as a boon chrono with a swap of trinkets.

It's only natural that some of it got nerfed, but it's still very powerful for PvE.

In comparison, Engies receive damage in overload, and thief has the lowest health pool.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > At the expense of consistent content offerings.

> >

> > You mean after Raids were released they stopped giving consistent content offerings? That the living world was affected by Raids?

> Yes. That was the end of the "whole game is the endgame" design, and the beginning of the "stairway to raids" approach. You said it yourself - a lot of raidlike mechanics trickled down to other parts of the content, and many of those cases were introduced not with the intention of making those low end content encounters more fun, but in order to prepare people for raiding - even if they _didn't_ consider it fun.

>

> There was also the impact on fractals (probably positive as seen from the point of view of hardcores, but negative for everyone else), and how introduction of raids gave Anet the final push towards completely and _officially_ abandoning dungeons. Raids also removed any chance of having a legendary amor set obtainable through the old, legendary weapon-like methods (and that change definitely wasn't liked by all of the players that were after legendaries up until that point).

>

> About the the content drought i was talking about earlier - you may argue about the reasons it happened, but it _did_ happen. And it, coupled with a lot of dev statements from that time, sent the message to many people that Raids are all Anet cares about. Even if that was not the message devs intended to send, it was the message players received. And Anet had to do damage control ever since that.

>

> As for raid development delays? As far as we know, Raid team remained pretty much unchanged until the layoffs, and didn't work on raids any less than before. Maybe they received less help from other teams, but in the end, the fact is that release schedule expectations Raiders had were based on mistaken belief that release schedule of first 3 wings is what Anet is capable of sustaining longterm (which was _never_ the case, as that release schedule had nothing to do with _development_ schedule - they were just releasing things they've already partly worked on beforehand, before first wing was even launched).

>

> And about them planning "more frequent" raid releases "this year" (which in Anet speak might have meant just releasing 2 wings in that one year), apparently those plans just didn't work out. They probably would have required increasing raid team size, but it was time when

> 1. raid population was already dropping

> 2. Anet started siphoning resources off _everything_ and moving them to those other "unnamed projects" we still don't know much about (apart from them apparently being a flop).

> Raid popularity probably even then simply didn't justify increasing resources dedicated to that content high enough to make raiders satisfied. Which, frankly, was clear to me even since before raids were released - i was already quite sure then, that raiders won;t be satisfied with raids getting as much resources as Anet was willing to dedicate to them. Only going full ahead on that type of content, to the detriment of everything else might have sufficed. Turns out, i was 100% right.

>

> In that context, introducing raids was a major mistake - it created some assumptions in hardcore community that were never true, and some expectations Anet was never able to fulfill. In the retrospect it would have been better to not give hardcore community any false hope at all.

"The whole game is the Endgame" approach was never successful in the first place.

Before the introduction of expansions and raids, "Straight into Berserker meta into the Dungeons" was already the approach. Dungeons becoming level 80 only instead of their advertised levels, kick heavy, and nearly impossible to be completed with low level or new players. Maps quickly become abandoned as players simply flock into Queensdale champ train for both leveling and causal gold grindings.

The introduction of Raid was actually an improvement, as the squad based approach opens up from 5 player elite into a community based co-op, with more tolerance of class type varieties.

Sustainability has always an issue across across all PVE contents, raid included but NOT exclusive to raid and fractals.

New world maps and Living stories events were equally abandoned by players as there is no purpose for revisit once a certain level of grinding is complete.

It has been a problem with the whole game.

Raid only gather a small audience because it isn't meant for everyone in the first place.

That's why Raid skin, Raid titles stands out amongst the players, because it is a proof of the selective few who has been victorious through hard earned battles and true cooperation effort.

But that doesn't mean they are not a selling point. Challenging, intense boss fights is always part of GW2 's offering, though players will always have preferences on contents, the importance is that we will always have the options available in an overall package. The introduction of raid simply move challenging meta boss with high fail rates onto closed stance to protect efforts from hard earning players getting ruined by AFK/Lazy farmers which was always the issue since LS1 meta, therefore why the kick system.

As for story mode in raid, the whole discussion has been irrelevant, most w1-4 bosses has been toned down with new strategies, exploits to mechanics so much that they already stand within the story mode level. If you don't have to do green circle in Vale Guardian isn't story mode enough for you, I don't know what is.

Sure, the overall raid community is dwindling, but that doesn't necessarily meant to be the quality of raid content, but the repetition. The thrill's simply gone after 20 kills of the same bosses throughout the time. And the same also applies to most of GW2's pve contents.

For me this is a common issue for not just a selective few, but almost everyone who's new to raid, so here's what I always do to help friend/guildies getting into these contents.

1. Focus only onto the TWO major mechanic that can kill you. Most other damages can be neglected by your squad healer. I never tend to explain whole mechanics along the way because that's just too much information at a short amount of time.

2. Simplify your rotation, find the biggest burst in your attack skill knowing that rest can be skipped if need be. I cannot stress how many raiders trying to emulate Snowcrow in a boss fight and failed to notice their surroundings.

Add more spices and refinements as you repeat the same instance with more practice, good luck.

Try the set everything to lowest preset, then log onto LA again, see if the problem still persists.

I take it the Dungeon's Caudecus' Manor.

It has nothing to do with skill level, more likely that in rare chances you have simply met a player with mentality issues.

Sounds to me even his methods are half baked because he has done poorly to keep the party in sync.

As a veteran dungeon runner myself, we always know the protocols to link skill or inform, and label a rally point before proceeding with stealth or portals, this way we could unify our methods and avoid unnecessary delays to proceed forward.

Most dungeon veterans nowadays should be pretty tolerant of newbie mistakes, at worst they simply went ahead and clear everything for you.

Don't let a single experience discourage you.

> @"Cylent.6078" said:

> Kudos to Vayne for starting this thread. And kudos, also, for saying nearly everything that's been on my mind since the achievements for this chapter were released.

>

> _What do we all have in common? We all want to play the game using the modes we enjoy most_. Good intentions from ANet, but this is not the way. I want to see GW2 succeed, and I applaud every game mode that interests and challenges all players and prospective players. I like having an incentive to try new things. But making the Shadow In The Ice Mastery achievement reward dependent on mixing the modes (including strike missions) _with no option of substituting an equivalent participation_ puts me, a loyal player, in a very negative space.

>

> I'll be honest and a bit selfish here...I like the varied game modes. It gives L33t and/or competitive players a source of enjoyment and reduces the negativity in my map chat.

>

> Please tell me, what category do I fit best? I log in every day (except a few maternity days off), do a few dailies (in different modes, mind you, but I prefer PvE). I have sunk some money into gems, and I love finishing collections & achievements, acquiring new skins, crafting, "fashion" wars, etc. I play the game to release a little steam, relax, and make some online friends. My screen time is limited (remember that maternity leave?), and I have a full time job. I play maybe 15-25 hours a week, across multiple accounts. I've never been good at jumping puzzles (however the light puzzles are much more fun for me). Maybe someone could offer a spiffy, stereotyped, category title for me? :)

>

> My interests have changed along with my time availability, among other things, and are different from when I began playing GW in 2005. I want to achieve goals, but my hands are tied when it comes to Shadow in the Ice, which saddens me a great deal. I don't enjoy Strike and Raids. Maybe I'm good enough, maybe not. I don't have time or patience, and it's not my thing. I'd rather grind than suffer the RNG of trying to land in a fun group to Strike or Raid with. Almost all attempts of mine have been fruitless so far. It's either toxic, or takes more time than I can commit to, to be successful.

>

> My husband and I have invested a great deal of time and money into this game, and we've also invested some hopes and dreams that when our little ones are old enough, this will be a source of entertainment for the whole family. We want to see it continue to succeed.

>

> As Vayne has said, if ANet continues this strategy of leading players towards raiding, they're going to lose player interest rather than increase it. I liked an excellent suggestion I read somewhere between page 2 and 5 of this thread...maybe add more achievements to old maps as new content is released, to allow players to earn the reward w/o doing strike missions?

>

> I have a lot less interest in the game when I am thinking ,"I'd like to, but..." Makes me want to channel my inner Sylvari...start a r.l. garden. My little ones are already mining precious ores (aka rocks) in our backyard. I have a kitchen and a sewing machine, and I'm pretty good a wielding a musical instrument, too. I suppose I have everything in r.l. that GW2 offers, except gliding, mounts, mobs of unfriendly creatures (perhaps bills, taxes, and traffic fit that description?), and large, shiny weapons. Don't take away my virtual rewards, ANet!

We have all grown up through out these years with since the first release of Guildwars2, and I too have given up many contents due to real life and families. I believe being able to appreciate life is truly a wonderful thing.

All I suggest is that you spent 20 minutes of your time with my community as we have been pugging with least half group of first timers with easy strategies and nearly 100% successful rate. I'm sure you will love the cheers of the aftermath.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Correct, they aren't ... even by their very nature they are intentionally designed around guild participation, which tends to require a good deal of organization to execute successfully. Of course, whether Guild missions are casual-oriented content or not has NOTHING to do with the post your are replying to or this thread. If you want to debate what is or isn't casual content, feel free to make a separate thread about it.

It's the logic you used to _define_ what is casual contents, in which you used to labeling out of any contents that requires "waiting for players organise into groups" from being casual. In this case the whole debate of meta achievements are irrelevant as nearly all living story meta achievements contain activities that require waiting for players to do as such, which makes meta achievement never meant for your definition of casual players.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I don't know what you are talking about. Nothing I said should have given you any indication of what I am and am not willing to do. You should try to follow along better, ESPECIALLY if you are going to accuse someone of having a false agenda and that person is me.

This I apologise for falsely pointing onto you, but you should be aware the whole topic is about willing or not willing to do strike mission.

Sounds like a hardware failure, check your GPU and CPU temperature.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Create a casual run for the strike missions then and specify it as being casual.

> > > >

> > > > People are well within their right to request people that join the groups that they created to meet certain DPS thresholds.

> > > >

> > > > Strikes are very much casual content, or at the very least, the three that rotate weekly. Whispers is debatable but doable by randoms with no raid experience. It just depends on their ability to pay attention.

> > >

> > > Strikes aren't casual content. Strikes are easier instanced content, but they're not casual because very often casuals don't organize. And the organization is the problem here. It's something many don't play a game to do. I will organize stuff myself, but I know my guild saw what raids did to them (as in caused a schism between better players and not so better players) and said screw this here we go again.

> > >

> > > You can say this is casual content, but it's really not. At the very least you might say even if the early ones were more casual, the later strike missions are definitely not.

> >

> > They're casual content. You don't need to organize for them unless going for all of the bonus chests. You wait in LFG just like you would for dungeons and fractals. **The only difference is that it takes a little longer since you need 10 players instead of 5.**

>

> That's exactly what makes them NOT casual. If you have to stand around and wait for players to organize into a team to do content, that is the opposite of casual friendly content.

In your logic then Guild missions are NOT casual friendly content as well?

In fact, pretty much all meta achievements are not casual friendly in this regard, case solved.

Again, the case isn't really about Anet in general, but simply you don't want to do it. Personal preferences of the few and unwilling are irrelevant in this matter, and yes, we do need stop including the majority of the community into personal opinions.

Low radius, high response time with wells means they would mostly fail to land onto party members to generate sufficient healing. Nerfed regeneration boon, nerfed alacrity and dependent upon other class to provide might.

Simply put, previous balance patches simply nerfed nearly every aspect of minstrel chrono's healing capabilities.

Full berserker Deadeye, rifle as main weapon.

Bind F1 and Skill 3 onto your mouse keys, which is all you need to attack.

High damage, high attack range, simple, and good sustain with Invigorating Precision trait.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> I'm sorry I believe I'm either part of a majority or at least part of a large enough group to make a difference in how the game should be changed moving forward. Either the dev numbers will bear out what I say or it won't. I won't stop believing that there are more people affected than you think.

Yet the Irony of pleading the game to be changed moving _backward_ by cutting contents off the grid. Yet still making a stance representing the majority.

I think the mentality is clear enough here, what needs changing isn't really the game.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> I'm not doing any such thing. I'm saying ANet will know from data, and they'll make a choice. I'm saying it's my belief that I'm part of a number of people who are annoyed by strike missions generally and wish they'd go away. I said we'll see how it affects meta completion rates and Anet will make a decision based on that. I dont' work for Anet. I don't know for sure. I don't have any data except my beliefs based on my experience.

>

> Why are you so put off by someone expressing their beliefs?

I'm ok with express your beliefs, leave "Majority" and "I'm Right" out of it.

Else we too will be expressing our beliefs that you're wrong, especially with this thread and its negativity bumping up for weeks.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> It may or may not be aligned iwth the majority of people who do meta achievements but I still could be right. Right now less than 1% of the population of GW 2 efficiency has finihsed hte meta achievement. By the time the next episode comes out, we'll have a better idea, but if it's less than 2% it'll be one of the least done metas of all time by about 100%. That's a pretty big statement.

>

> Which is why I keep saying my opinion doesn't matter, but Anet will have the numbers and I believe they'll back up what I'm saying.

>

> Edit: BTW, the age of the average computer gamer is somewhere in the mid-30s so you know.

Again you're narrowing the community into your own point of interest.

Why should completing Meta Achievement be counted as a necessity in the first place? Most players I know never feel the need of finishing every point of it in every living story. Anet brought out new content, new boss, new skins, and we come feel the thrill, collect the reward, enjoy the chatter, and learn something along the way with friends and guildies. That's what kept us going.

So I have done raids, done strike missions, but never completed any meta, am I the 98% or the 5%?

And yes, we're getting too old.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> I believe that my thoughts on strike missions align with the majority of players. I don't speak for them as in I'm their spokesperson but it doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong. That's not in any way offense to the communiity. If you believe that there are more PvPers than PvEers that would be your belief and stating that isn't offensive to the community. But you'd probably be incorrect, even if you believed it. I might very well be incorrect in my belief, but I don't think so. Certainly nothing I've seen makes me think that I am.

>

> It's not just about personal preference so much as how I view the game. I feel like something I enjoyed has been taken away from me, and I have every right to post about it. The strawman argument here is about whether I'm in a majority or not. And it is a strawman because my argument is valid whether I am or I'm not. If ENOUGH people feel that they're being annoyed by this, it will have a carry on effect to the game. Anet will have these numbers, eventually, we won't. What they do in the future will inform us if i'm correct. If they keep doing this zone after zone obviously I'm wrong and their data has shown it. If they change it back to what it was, then I'm probably right.

>

> I don't have hard data to prove that most of the population is casual though I strongly believe it. I don't have hard data that most casuals avoid instanced ten man content as a rule, but I strongly believe that.

>

> I've seen zero evidence to prove otherwise.

Your thought towards Strike Missions may somehow align with the majority of players but that doesn't meant your thought towards Meta Achievement or how people should approach them do also represent the majority of players, therefore you're wrong.

While I do respect everyone should have their own voice, I do find this overly vague yet convenient labeling groups of people behind your own objection to be offensive every time the thread is brought up. So what am I, the 5% elite minority just because I do strike mission and casual raid with guildies sometimes?

Games in general, will always be catering the mainstream of gamers, which tends to age towards the young and curious. The declining of MMOs has many factors, but GW2 players has becoming too old of age, too lazy, too casual and too unmotivated, sometimes it's simply an symptom of players becoming the past generation, like this thread.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Not sure what that has to do with your Guild members, unless you are saying some of them solo dungeons, and therefore aren't that casual.

>

> I'm really not sure what it is you don't understand. You're implying some people are doing this with no problem. That's undoubtedly true. You didn't mention my guld members in your post, so I'm not sure where that came from. Yes there are people in my guild who can solo dungeons btw. Hell even I can solo some dungeons.

>

> I don't like strike missions because I have no interest in them, and I'm pretty sure most of my guild doesn't either, as in the vast majority. Assuming that casual people are relatively evenly represented in my guild, that would be that the vast majority of casuals aren't interested in Strike missions. It's not even necessarily because it's too hard. It's because that type of content doesn't interest them.

>

> You're trying to use a strawman argument to change what I'm saying. So I'll say it again.

>

> It is my belief that the vast majority of casuals don't like and won't run strike missions for a variety of reasons. I'm not even sure that skill is the main reason.

>

> As I've said before I have the skill to raid I just don't enjoy raiding. I believe a lot of people are in my boat.

Again, you do not speak for the majority here, that kind of self acclaimed statement feels somehow offensive to our community.

As the thread goes, the central issue of this problem is no longer Strike Mission, but rather your own preference.

Strike Mission or not, there will always be something some people don't like about in any meta achievements, if skill isn't a barrier, your disinterest about the content is your own choice, and developers simply need not build a wall around it. Achievements are built for the motivated, not the other way around.

We do have a large easy going community that doesn't like to get too devoted to contents, for the most of us, this is never a problem either, strike mission or not,

the whole meta achievement takes too much time and devotion in all living story contents for them in the first place. What _YOU_ want does not represent what they like either.

Therefore do us a favor, save us from these 10 forum pages of excuses, it's obvious enough you have trouble handling strike missions (Not interested is so common of an excuse for not capable and afraid of getting expelled) either take in the tips and strategies (as we always do as a community), progress your basic combat training, or simply stay away.

Heal Druid

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/ranger/druid/heal/

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> Well I probably do represent the majority of players, since the devs said he average player does 500% less damage than a good player. That would probably make me the majority.

>

> Again the problem is the change, not the challenge. You're so used to the same argument you're not actually listening to mine. This isn't about, and has never been about difficulty, not for me anyway.

>

> Zone metas really started with HoT. Throughout Season 3 and Season 4, we never had to group for instanced content to do a zone meta. Now that's changing and it's a change people will resent, partially because it's a change. You want to add a multiplayer instanced content meta, go ahead. But to change an existing meta, specifically for the purpose of promoting an area of the game that doesnt' have the support of the fan base to being with is going to kitten people off.

>

> It absolutely doesn't matter what the word achievement means in the English language. In this game, we've had metas that give people options to complete them. It doesn't matter if any one group of people think it's okay to have stuff that most people won't beat as part of a zone meta, generally some of the easiest metas in the game. WHat matters is disenfranchsing what is likely a fairly large segment of the playerbase.

>

> I don't care about the difficulty. I care about being prepared for raids I'm never going to be into, and don't care about and didn't want in the game in the first place. You may think it's okay. I'm almost 100% certain more people dislike raids than raid.

A good player generally average around 25k dps, since you have played for least 5 years, yet still lingers around 5k, then yes, you do have difficulty with battles mechanics.

And no, that still don't represent yourself as the majority of players, I'm in multiple casual guilds, and most don't cares about full meta achievements or the shiver emotes, it's the map chat, currency, skin, minis and loots worth of gold they want. Ask around the map, how many people has fully unlocked Cosair skins of the past?

The _Change_ is about adding _Strike Mission_ into the list, and Strike Mission _DO_ represent challenge. As said, squad based boss fights isn't uncommon among map contents, the difference on a 10 man instance is simply the added difficulty and transparency of personal performance. If you really don't care, then there wouldn't be this thread. In reality, many casual pugs we played with truly don't care, they simply wants to get this over and done with, we cleared the boss all the same.

It's simply a matter of denial and avoidance.

Which is a common casual mentality: people **_deny_** contents simply so they could _**avoid**_ to be judged by other players, especially when they under-perform by a vast degree. No multiplayer games could thrive in this mentality.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> Because we've never had to do ten man content to get a meta ever. In what way would you open a restaurant that only servers vegetarian dishs and then start serving meat, and then asking us to accept it, because it's on the menu?

Because achievements are never meant to be food served on a silver platter in the first place, they are _**voluntary challenges**_.

GW2 Living World meta achievements had used to include challenging combat trials (if any players old enough to remember what doing all these LWS2 achievements before ANY expansions feels like), Scarlet wiped out more player and failed more events than we could ever encountered, and that never stopped players from overflowing maps. They got tuned down so much since PoF that everything turns into a mindless grind, but that doesn't meant it's supposed to be the tradition.

Let's be honest, your statement about the whole thing isn't about meat and vegetables. Closed instance or not, squad based boss fights isn't anything new even for map grinders. It's the added difficulty of combat in strike missions that scared you so much that you would go so far to call quit, instead of progress what you are missing.

That doesn't make you represent the majority of players.

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> I have a problem with that statement for the following reasons, most story and open world achievements don't require much effort, a lot, and I do mean a lot of them happen organically while you play the game "normally". I play for entertainment purposes, to have fun, if I wanted to put effort into something it would be a single player game and not an MMO, once I have to exert effort to achieve something in this game then I just leave what ever it is alone. Effort does not equal entertainment, at least for me, some it does, most I would say it doesn't. FYI, I did the Grothmar strike once, and only once, that was enough and that's the easy one, never have bothered with the other and probably won't, don't really care.

And in what way should the developers reward full meta achievements on every map for those who don't care about contents?

I respect that any player can play their MMO anyway they want, but demand how the game should fully reward players for denying content is another thing. Achievement can be voluntarily, but shouldn't be free gives in the first place. Strike missions isn't raid, doesn't demand raid experience, and still ties perfectly into PvE category.

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> But if you want to raise the bar, in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it. It's long been a problem with the nature of open world PvE being so casual in this game. You change the game you lose the playerbase. It's just logic.

It isn't logic, it is just denial.

And developers has been feeding this denial by making map events brainlessly simple even more players left because there is no thrills even fighting meta bosses.

Years back, we had even more players online when half the world bosses and have medium to high chances of failure.

Besides, I don't see the majority of casual player cares about finishing map meta achievements either, strike mission or not. They play to grind, instead to achieve.

The Arah story mode was changed to solo mode because it takes too long and too little reward for players who have done this story to replay, not because it was too hard.

Deleted by user

Was difficult when it just came out, now easy strategies begin to take shape:

1. Bring a heal druid and a heal scourge

2. Range attack the boss post 20%, or 50% to avoid dps wipe out at chains.

3. Most aoe attacks can be ignored.