meri.9187

> @"Vyriis.6258" said:

> > @"meri.9187" said:

> > Realistically this class needs greatsword.

>

> Really getting tired of seeing people say "Revenant needs Greatsword". Revenant shouldn't be forced into another "Big weapon heavy hitter" role; they should remain as a heavy yet swift combatant. Nothing we currently have for weapons, aside from our slow ranged hammer, plays into the role of a lumbering heavy class and I, personally, would prefer to keep it that way.

>

> > One of the norn heroes of Jora or Asgeir Dragonrender would be nice, I know they used sword/shield but Kalla used a greatsword.

>

> It's never actually stated what Kalla used in life. She's depicted with a Greatsword in her statue, but that doesn't mean that was her weapon of choice. The Shortbow could have also been a callback to her Grandsir, Pyre Fierceshot, who was a Ranger in GW1. It's also noted in one of her voice lines that she's not against using other weapons (When acquiring Scrochrazors Fist - Kalla: "A mace? For me? I can get behind that. Blunt. Solid. Hits you in the face.").

>

> > If they suddenly become intent on properly honoring the weapon the character actually used, just use Balthazar, it would make the most sense considering recent events.

>

> Also getting tired of people suggesting Balthazar. As cool as it would be to use a greatsword like Balth does, we can't use him as a legend for the same reasons we can't use Joko, Eir, Trahearne, Vlast, or any of the other characters who have died in "recent events"; they have died in recent events. If a new player were to stumble across someone using "Legendary Marshal stance" or "Legendary Hunter Stance" and notice they were Trahaerne or Eir it would tell them that those two characters are dead before their story gets to that point (talk about spoilers).

Nah man rev needs greatsword, it's a heavy class. And no, I don't want Balthazar either. If you want to argue with me and say you're really tired of the opinions I have, that's your own prerogative, I'm a herald main who would be just fine playing it until the game dies.

Cantha wise, Vizu and daggers. Name it Legendary Assassin Stance II.

Realistically this class needs greatsword. One of the norn heroes of Jora or Asgeir Dragonrender would be nice, I know they used sword/shield but Kalla used a greatsword. If they suddenly become intent on properly honoring the weapon the character actually used, just use Balthazar, it would make the most sense considering recent events.

Yeah, if you strike a ranger with nature magic, wilderness survival, and durability runes, they get 4s of prot from Protective Ward, 3s of prot from Durability runes, then they dodge and get 2s more, 4s from protect me, sharing boons with your pet, plus all the boon duration you have.

Yet Facet of Chaos, Spirit Boon, and Envoy of Exuberance all get big nerfs in the same patch to hit condi herald in the wrong way. Recently, I've liked their balance patches, but this is two steps back at best.

Just checking in to say that this feels exactly as bad as we thought it'd feel. Not only do opponents have a clear second in which to attack without prot, we also have to listen to the sound of our character gaining prot every 3 seconds. Yikes.

Destroy all herald specs to hit condi herald... in the wrong place. Please, revert this change, for the love of god.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > Loved the changes because my power and condi Herald builds remain both mostly untouched. But I wonder why they nerfed the shield, which is barely used, and didn't rework that hot garbage called hammer. Also good to see that they didn't touch the axe now that Astralaria is almost in my pocket.

> > >

> > > Anyway, the most important fact provided by the new patch is that all the talk from ANet about having a faster pace of balance updates was nothing short of bs.

> >

> > im hiting 2-3 k on wanderer stats, some players playing diviner and zerkers based builds sometimes report over 10k hit(wont say the actual value).

> > Sadly hammer rev its the only "not workin" possible counter to the tons of scourges that will be amassing zergs and omniblobs in wvw.... when iu use it on a group of 20+ players, sometimes i get no values.... working as intended.

> >

> > IDK what Anet is thinking atm in terms of balance but the next months wvw will be pure idioticy.

> >

> > @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 , how is rev low dps in pve, sometimes sword 3 hits arorund 20-30k alone... 4-5k autos with perma quiickness...etc.

>

> If you think 4k autos with perma quickness is high, try doing the same thing with reaper. I regularly hit over 10k on the final auto attack by itself. Soul Spiral does 100k in one click. How in the world is Herald gonna compete with that, especially when reaper isn't even the best dps?

>

> Also none of this has anything to do with Facet of Chaos now needing 50% boon duration to even cover pulse timing, which I don't even think is possible in sPvP anymore.

With the compounding herald traitline concentration nerf, boon duration rune nerfs in PvP, the removal of diviner's amulet, and now the gutting of facet of chaos passive, you're right- it is impossible to cover pulse timing in sPvP unless you already started with prot from spirit boon or used shield 4, and even then, it won't be for long.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > I don't understand the problem,

> > Just stack more boon duration.

>

> Problem is you shouldn't have to stack boon duration to maintain a boon from a facet that costs -5 upkeep, especially with sPvP having far less boon duration options and the problem not even being the facet itself but Draconic Echo. It's an unnecessary nerf that doesn't fix what they're trying to solve.

Unfortunately I have to agree with this and this is as a person who's had the trait equipped since day 1 and a character named Draconic Echo. Just make facets pulse one more time in PvP and WvW instead of gutting a core part of herald.

Honestly, this change is the worst and absolutely most uncalled for out of all of them for rev players in PvP/WvW. Even if we accept the shield nerfs and other sustain nerfs when resistance uptime and mallyx f2 (the real problems with condi rev) were left untouched, this one is absolutely horrible.

Facets are supposed to have a passive and active effect, and obviously, up until now, as long as you are upkeeping a Glint facet, you have that boon. It's beyond stupid to fathom that, even in the absence of boonstrip/corruption, you can have Facet of Chaos up while not having protection. In addition, even if you do keep the passive on, any smart power damage player can easily time a backstab/grenade barrage/true shot in that .75 seconds or so that you inherently don't have protection even though you are literally draining 5 energy per second on it.

Even when not looking at Rev changes specifically, this patch is dumb for PvP and even more so WvW. When looking at Rev changes, no nerfs to mallyx f2 and its inherently broken way of condi transfer? No nerfs to resistance uptime? But let's neuter shield, a weapon that's unused on power rev, and fundamentally ruin the concept of facet upkeep by gutting Facet of Chaos. At this rate, this facet won't be worth anywhere near 5 energy to upkeep.

You walk away. Condi rev is so massively overtuned in WvW that any condi rev who won't fight 1v2 at the least is a coward.

Shield on its own is fine, it didn't take the same kind of nerfs every other weapon did. It looks almost too good on condi herald, but I think that's much more easily attributed to the ridiculous sustain and resistance uptime you get with condi herald- not to shield.

Shield is, however, not great on straight power herald. This is simply due to the role power herald has been forced into in PvP, making sword a no brainer pick. The nerfs to mainhand sword as well as the blanket damage nerfs only make it even more necessary to take sword offhand. In addition, with damage reduced across the board, the value of a 3 second block is comparatively less than it used to be, considering you'll be avoiding less damage.

Given that power herald has slowly turned into a gank class reliant on quickness bursts (aka, landing ridiculous damage before your opponent can even react), it's going to take a lot of changes to make shield viable again, and the fact that the other offhand choice (sword) has a skill that still nukes people for ridiculous damage altogether too fast, I don't see shield ever being meta for power herald again unless sweeping changes are made. I miss the days of sw/sh herald in PvP.

WvW though, you can take shield just fine and in many cases I would recommend it with Hardening Persistence, especially when you consider how strong conditions are in WvW compared to PvP. Still, a grand majority of people who even bother to roam on power herald in WvW (most have jumped ship by now) prefer sword due to its damage. And it'll be that way unless we have another rework- until then, no matter how good of a defensive weapon you make Shield, Sword offhand will still be the pick of most because you can't crit someone for 9k with a shield with an extremely quick casting attack, can you?

Played WvW since 2013, never been worse than this. Absolute garbage especially on reset night, even in T2 with our pug tag vs AR's pug tag. When it takes you 10 seconds to cast Facet of Light passive in a small skirmish halfway across the map from where the OJs are, there's something seriously wrong, and it's been deteriorating consistently.

There is no excuse. Fix it.

Again, lack of stunbreak. Purifying Essence should be a stunbreak as well as have an increased energy cost.

The tablet is hard to manage properly unless you have a group that coordinates very well with you. It has the worst ease of use of all of the healers you can use in WvW, given that the heal radius is quite low and is also not centered around yourself, which means you have to predict where your group is going.

Tha Rubberduckies [QUAK]

Funny name? They will have you quacking from your waypoint in no time. Brilliant individually and collected, they were the benchmark of the deadly lower tier servers back in the days when most roamers worth their salt gathered there to avoid the higher tier blob servers. Beat them and your roaming guild enters the pantheons of roaming greatness. But how many can say they have done the impossible?

Everyone can.

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > @"Arcaniaxs.4519" said:

> > Isnt it just infusing light and the sustain of necro that are the problems?

> > Its just cuz of their broken sustain imo

>

> It's not even power shiro that's the problem. It's core rev and the 800 life steal traits mixed with heals on stun beak, heals on upkeep, all while pumping out condition damage and using weapon skills to survive. Amidst constant cc.

>

Not a single condi rev takes devastation, so not a single condi rev can take the battle scars traits that are a shadow of what they used to be. I've run into one core rev (Shao) in 202 games between the ratings of 1580 and 1680 on NA, and he wasn't condi. No clue where you're getting these ideas from.

No reason to nerf DH, the OP of this thread is like the only good one on NA anyway LOL

Worst troll post I've seen in a while, pls try harder

ATs literally aren't bad lmao. I haven't played pvp for well over 2 years, I'm a wvw player and don't care for conquest. And yet my team of fellow wvwers is getting 3 wins per AT, losing only to the teams we should lose to- e.g. the people who are winning the entire tournament, and are all plat 3 players with a ton of conquest experience.

It's 20 match wins. It's not that bad.

THANK YOU, SO MUCH.

Fix Mallyx facet being undodgable and unblockable before you even consider touching Infuse Light. Shiro facet got changed fairly quickly after the patch because people actually played power rev and no one played condi rev at the time. Now that the majority of builds played are condi and condi rev is beyond meta, fix the facet.

Infuse Light doesn't save you from being CC spammed to death, it doesn't prevent your opponents from stacking more conditions during its duration to kill you after the 3 seconds. Just because your thief decided to steal in to attack while there's the most obvious animation and tooltip that the revenant is healing doesn't mean it's an inherently broken skill.

You want to make power herald even worse in a meta where condi is already running rampant? Condi herald is inherently too tanky for the amount of damage it can do., no reason to nerf power further when it has already lost 2/3 of its stunbreak power, might stacking ability, and a heck of a lot of damage. You want to take the one defense power herald has against condi in PvP? Focus on Mallyx facet, if only for the fact that it's the one way that you can nerf condi herald directly without nerfing power herald or condi base rev.

Best players. Best classes for 2v2. You can choose your duo and communicate with them. Absolutely no outside variables like there are in 5v5 conquest. It isn't hard to avoid your friends in ranked queue as to not ruin one of your winrates.

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> @"ventusthunder.5067" yes, Essence Sap is what makes me hate fighting Thieves. I am glad that not as many run Improv now (the horrors of getting a quad Essence Sap from acro S/D) but IMO it still does too much damage for it being a ranged skill that does not require you to face the target.

>

> Also I like having Aggressive Agility simply to get away from Ancient Seeds cancer, but looking at it, it is a pretty lackluster trait otherwise. I don't think sword 3 even procs the break, at least on the tooltip when I first checked.

I almost forgot how much ancient seeds makes me rage when my Surge no longer does enough damage to kill the binding roots, lmao. I've actually been forced to take the trait just based on how much immob is floating around. Sure, they may have nerfed CC damage, but right now it's running rampant based on having horribly nerfed stunbreaks.

Preface: I'm a power herald main, have played it since 2015, that is, through the time that it was broken, the time that was trash, the time that it was broken again (aka the entire year of 2019)... and now, the time that it's not very good at all.

I don't think power herald has any place in the meta now especially with condi running rampant... but it can still deal solid damage. That said, I don't see it being competitive in sPvP simply because you can run other stuff with a higher reward:risk ratio whereas now you can get shut down EXTREMELY easily as rev.

Hmm, what else is good?

Glint is still an extremely useful legend and the herald traitline remains solid. Damage still exists with Deathstrike, but not for anyone who decides to run shield in the intended Herald way. Sword 2 rework is a huge range nerf but I think the functionality of the skill is rock solid. Retribution is a solid line for people who want to drop Devastation after its resoundingly meh rework. Renegade feels extremely fun, but I'm focusing on Herald in this post.

Now, onto the most glaringly bad things, as well as some other not-crippling stuff that just grinds my gears.

1. Staff 5 is trash, according to me and every other person who has ever picked up a staff on revenant. This should honestly have been hotfixed, but I get that it was time to deal with the most broken classes first. The balance team knows what they have to do on this one, it's the easiest change to make.

2 (and this is the worst change of all). Power herald has lost its flow. This isn't about how it performs in PvP or WvW, it's about the playstyle we've learned to love. Just think for a second and completely eliminate the competitive aspect of this game. Don't think about matchups, even though a lot of good matchups have turned... significantly worse. Just try to play power herald, and you'll see yourself sitting back, waiting for your energy to come back. You'll be waiting for your cooldowns to come up so you always have a stunbreak. You'll be kiting and camping 800 range away so you can regenerate your energy. You can no longer truly play offense and defense at the same time, which was what led me to start playing herald in the start. What are we supposed to be, thieves?

Let's just put this in all caps so we get the point down: **CONSTANTLY INCREASING ENERGY COSTS IS THE LAZIEST WAY OF BALANCING THIS CLASS.** For example, Banish Enchantment recently got the nerf to 30 energy, but instead of doing that, why not just... reduce the amount of attacks to 2 and keep the energy cost at 20? Actually give revenants a chance to use multiple skills, even if each of those skills isn't quite as overloaded anymore. However, I'm most notably looking at you, Riposting Shadows... which brings me to my next point:

3. I'd estimate invocation power herald has lost about 2/3 of its stunbreak power through the deletion of Empty Vessel, and the nonsensical change to 40 energy for Riposting Shadows coupled with the increase of the Glint stunbreak (which also doubles as an offensive skill) to 25 seconds. I'm not going to ask for Empty Vessel back because a 10 second on demand stunbreak would be broken in this current meta and make rev almost as slippery as thief. I think you have to look into reverting the energy/cd nerfs on our actual stunbreak skills. This, coupled with classes that can still spam CC like no one's business, and the fact that you're often fighting outnumbered, results in you simply being locked down no matter how fast your reaction time is. Other players can still frontload CCs and you're dead no matter what you do. Fighting outnumbered is more difficult than ever on power herald, and half the time, you'll die to someone's downed skills in a 1v3 anyway, because they didn't get nerfed (lol).

4. The rework to devastation is amazing in PvE, terrible in PvP/WvW. The fundamental difference, of course, is the numbers behind Battle Scars. It's useless to ever take Battle Scars in competitive gamemodes, it doesn't provide you anywhere near the benefit that old Assassin's Annihilation did. So now we're a class with trash stunbreaks, severely nerfed range, and extra sustain reduced to zero. In PvE though? Battle Scars are amazing. Funny that this might have something to do with a 6x difference in healing numbers between the two modes.

4b (Targeted raging at one specific change) Aggressive Agility is a BOTTOM TIER trait, it has absolutely no saving grace. May I introduce you, perhaps, to this trait? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Sprint This trait provides the same benefit as the new Aggressive Agility, but warrior has multitudes more movement skills than revenant. Oh, but that's not all! In addition, warriors get a passive 25% speed bonus as well as a 3% damage modifier when they have swiftness. You can't even make the argument that they're in different slots. These are both adept major traits, and in the case of the Discipline line for warrior, it's located conveniently and is easy to take in one of the most meta lines for a class ever. Aggressive Agility needs improvement.

5. Sword offhand is even more necessary for power herald now, because you simply deal pitiful damage without it. Even so, if your Deathstrike/Chilling Isolation get blocked or blinded, you have no damage left. I'm a person who has stuck with shield as my main offhand forever and have been able to play it to great success in WvW, and now I find if I play shield, more often than not, I simply can't get the kill and get stuck in a stalemate against some tanky build. I'm glad that Shield didn't get any nerfs, but for now, there's even less reason to take it over sword.

6. This is a more global note. Some CC skills should do some damage. I'm fine with Surge doing no damage IF they revert the stupid 0.5 second windup, because it's a skill with no tell that it's going to be used. I'm not fine with Jade Winds and Chaotic Release doing no damage, because they have massive tells, are huge investments to use, and a notable cast time. I'm fine with Disrupting Stab (on Spellbreaker) doing no damage, because it's a skill with no tell, and it's cast instantly. I'm not fine with Backbreaker (Warrior Hammer 5) doing no damage, because it has a massive tell and if you get hit by it, it's probably as part of a combo that you had time to react to. Get what I'm saying? I'm not asking for Chaotic Release to do 7k damage like it used to- but at least make it do 2k.

7. (REEEEEEE) How, for the love of Christ almighty, did you manage to miss nerfing Thief stolen skills? I'm out here critting for 1 on my Surge and thieves are still able to lay down double 6k essence saps from 900 range while walking away from you and spamming slow on you.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > it honestly does not feel good to play rev in anything outside of PvE.

>

> Dude the entire reason why I decided to make this thread was because it started to affect my PvE play as well.

> I got CC chained by 3 Icebrood and it did NOT feel good.

>

> Alot of mobs in HoT also have heavy CC, and PoF has even worse ones with Forged doggies.

>

> Removal of Empty Vessel only did one thing : allow Rev builds to forgo Invocation.

> But it hurt Revenant overall because it makes gameplay too disruptive, even in PvE, especially if yu are playing Ventari.

>

> Ventari gets CC'd? Welp gg that's it, gotta be useless for 3 seconds now.

>

>

>

I agree honestly I've been noticing this more in PvE, in comp modes it forces you to play... simultaneously more passive and smarter. And I would agree as well with Thornwolf that this is a huge problem with power rev's flow. It's probably the second biggest problem with power rev's flow now, the first one obviously being Surge.

I believe that the only thing that the balance team CAN do at this point is to give a little back in terms of Glint/Shiro stunbreaks. Rev would still be susceptible to CC chains but perhaps not as drastically as "40 energy in Shiro when it's also your damage, and 25 seconds in Glint when it's also an offensive skill."

I think the other point I'd like to make, and that a lot of other people share the opinion of, is that nerfing skills in terms of energy costs is lazy at best, terrible for the class at worst. And making Shiro so energy hungry is a big part of that. I'd much rather have them take the fury off of Riposting Shadows entirely and keep it at 30 energy, or make Banish Enchantment hit twice instead of thrice, but keep it at 20 energy. We've always had energy tied to both weapon and utility skills, and when everything is so energy-hungry, the class does not flow right.

If you want to deal any damage with Shiro, you pretty much have to forgo your stunbreak entirely. I'm all for going balls deep with Impossible Odds, but the fluidity of the class is just ruined by having to sit back and wait for your energy to come back, and thus, your moment to burst. Power herald is beginning to make me feel like a cowardly WvW thief, you know the type, just sitting back and waiting for their initiative to come back.

Looking back two weeks after the patch when some stuff has had time to settle... this is simply not happening because it was the cheapest and easiest stunbreak in the game, and would far outpace what other classes have. I'm as frustrated as everyone else from getting CC chained, but the solution can't be to give Empty Vessel back.

That said, Rev did get hit extremely hard compared to other classes in terms of stunbreaks being nerfed, and it's inordinately easy to lock down a rev compared to before. With Full Counter still on a 8.75s cooldown and Magebane Tether on a 12s cooldown just for an example, the overnerfing of stunbreaks can be put into perspective.

Riposting Shadows was a massive overnerf, 40 energy is far too much. Rather keep it at 30 energy and remove the fury, or just put it at 35 energy.

Gaze of Darkness shouldn't be 25 seconds, either. Revert it to 20 seconds.

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > That's the inherent problem with Battle Scars in general. They're extremely good in PvE, likely too good to the point that the only thing that'll kill you in PvE is one shot mechanics.

> >

> > Yet they're completely worthless in competitive game modes due to the numbers. After the nerfs are handed out to the appropriate builds (FB, condi rev, core necro), this should be one of the things they take a look at improving.

> >

> > It's abundantly clear that the PvE value of ~300 base heal per stack is too much, and at the same time it's clear that the PvP value of 58 is too little. This mechanic should definitely have different values in each gamemode, but a difference greater than fivefold leaves the trait unusable in comp gamemodes and robs power herald of its sustain.

>

> Improving something? You really have been away for 6 months rofl ;-)

You're right, this is power herald I'm talking about after all, what's changed? Lol. The nerfs for the last year have absolutely been deserved as the class has been overperforming for a ridiculous amount of time, but this time, they were just too much. Now that the outliers have been nerfed (although I don't understand why NOT nerf condi herald in WvW) maybe we can start to see a gradual improvement of some things that are just trash. Battle Scars is on that list, although I would argue that power mirage and weaver are far bigger priorities to buff than a siphon trait on the class that just dominated PvP for 2 years.

That's the inherent problem with Battle Scars in general. They're extremely good in PvE, likely too good to the point that the only thing that'll kill you in PvE is one shot mechanics.

Yet they're completely worthless in competitive game modes due to the numbers. After the nerfs are handed out to the appropriate builds (FB, condi rev, core necro), this should be one of the things they take a look at improving.

It's abundantly clear that the PvE value of ~300 base heal per stack is too much, and at the same time it's clear that the PvP value of 58 is too little. This mechanic should definitely have different values in each gamemode, but a difference greater than fivefold leaves the trait unusable in comp gamemodes and robs power herald of its sustain.