meri.9187

As someone who doesn't really play Mallyx that much for condi anymore (hybrid glint/shiro is much more fun) the biggest worry for me with this patch is the simple fact that this class is being dumbed down even further and relying even less on good energy management.

We've already seen Jalis skills changed to a lower energy cost and a longer cooldown. We saw it with the Ventari elite in PvP (although let's be real that was necessary). Now we're seeing it happen with Unyielding Anguish and Embrace the Darkness.

This class loses its identity more each patch and managing the resource that once made rev unique is becoming even easier to do, rev players signed up for an energy system acting like thief's initiative for ALL 9 skills other than autoattack. Of course, the tradeoff is low weapon cooldowns and no cooldowns on utility skills so long as you had the energy to use them. Suggest a cooldown be added to some thief weapon skills (like s/d #3 for example, lol) and watch everyone lose their minds.

PepeLaugh

/10charrs

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > Gonna necro my own thread here. The absolute madmen did it. They might have completely destroyed condi renegade dps in all of it but hey at least they let us use dark aura now.

>

> That dark field is going to be so bad--and not just for making us miss all of our awesome fire/poison/chill/confusion projectile finishers now... It's going to block *everyone's* finishers since you'll have nothing else to spend energy on except a boring, boring upkeep skill that will just be up 1/2 the fight all the time. The lower personal dps aside, people will probably not want to take condi renegades to raids just because of this.

Excuse me sir are you trying to tell me that people WOULDN'T want to sacrifice burning/confusion/poison damage and potential might for a tiny amount of lifesteal or area blindness on a boss that is completely immune to blind? People these days, I swear

Gonna necro my own thread here. The absolute madmen did it. They might have completely destroyed condi renegade dps in all of it but hey at least they let us use dark aura now

Unyielding Anguish: This skill has been reworked and renamed Call to Anguish. It is now a leap finisher skill that pulls foes to the center of your landing point and chills them. This skill has an energy cost of 35 and a 5-second recharge.

Embrace the Darkness: This skill is now a mobile dark field. Increased recharge to 10 seconds. This skill no longer grants a stat increase and is no longer unblockable and unblindable. The amount of torment applied per pulse is unchanged, but using a skill that costs energy now increases the stacks of torment applied on the next pulse by 2. This skill now deals a small amount of damage each pulse.

EU has more players, which means they have more high-skilled players... and more low-skilled players. The amount of EU roaming montages where a single person takes down 4 or 5 Pepegas (usually from Baruch Bay, Jade Sea, or Kodash) is innumerable. So while they have better players, they also have worse.

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > > @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > > > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > > > Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

> > > >

> > > > In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

> > > >

> > > > In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

> > > >

> > > > The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

> > >

> > > Rev is the most redicuclous dmg in game? what about mesmer,one shots (condi & power), 30k hits from warriors and soulbeasts or do u remember the hammer one-shot build from guardian? its still there too. and looked at holos/thiefs and scourges, The rev damage is extremely low.

> > >

> > > If u say its ridicoulus, what is the damage of other classes then?

> >

> > I'm a herald main and I'm specifically not saying it's ridiculous, I'm mentioning other sources of far more damage in WvW just like you did. I am also stating that rev's high burst and the reason it is extremely strong in pvp is because of offhand sword, not precision strike (which this thread is about).

> >

> > It is impossible to argue that rev's damage is not very high in wvw, because it is quite high. But as I said, and as you actually corroborated my point, the damage of other classes is also much higher.

>

> Precision strike in wvw hits about as hard as the offhand sword skills with a much shorter cd, lower energy cost, much shorter cast time than sword 4, and arguably easier to use due to not needing to face target. I think it is silly to say sword offhand skills are more busted in wvw than precision strike. Of course I don't think any of it is busted compared to numerous other roaming builds that are much stronger than their pvp counterparts or are simply more suited for a wvw small-scale.

Sword 4 has been appropriately nerfed already. My issue is that 12k deathstrikes are not healthy for the game, let's not kid ourselves. Shackle is fine in wvw, but deathstrike is the problem since it casts so fast especially with quickness- not to mention that you can hit it from slightly outside the 600 range threshold.

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

> >

> > In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

> >

> > In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

> >

> > The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

>

> Rev is the most redicuclous dmg in game? what about mesmer,one shots (condi & power), 30k hits from warriors and soulbeasts or do u remember the hammer one-shot build from guardian? its still there too. and looked at holos/thiefs and scourges, The rev damage is extremely low.

>

> If u say its ridicoulus, what is the damage of other classes then?

I'm a herald main and I'm specifically not saying it's ridiculous, I'm mentioning other sources of far more damage in WvW just like you did. I am also stating that rev's high burst and the reason it is extremely strong in pvp is because of offhand sword, not precision strike (which this thread is about).

It is impossible to argue that rev's damage is not very high in wvw, because it is quite high. But as I said, and as you actually corroborated my point, the damage of other classes is also much higher.

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > Until offhand sword gets rightfully nerfed this build will always be propped up into the meta unless they destroy the core of the build even more. Which is probably what will happen lol

>

> I don't know why rev players want OH sword nerfed so much... If you don't think it's fun, that's whatever, but was it more fun being so bad in the first 6 months of PoF that they had to invent a new tier just to describe how unviable Rev was?

>

> As it is now, the extra burst skills of OHsword are the only thing keeping Rev relevant, and if people don't like them, that's fine, they don't have to play it, there's 8 other profs out there... But like, *within the current scope of the game and meta, you cannot nerf oh sword and keep rev viable, not even if you rework shield or axe for utility.* Even if they reworked shield into a S+ tier defensive weapon, it wouldn't work for rev since their core mechanical design won't let them hang in long fights against classes that can use their skills off cooldown, unrestricted by an energy system. This is why a bunker rev build will never be able to out bunker other classes and it's why a dueling rev has to be quite a bit better than their opponent. On the other hand, proper use of the dual Legend/Energy system allows for Rev to be more effective than other classes in the short term, which is why Rev's such a potent +1/burst class. But, without OH sword, a rev doesn't have enough skills in its kit to capitalize on all the benefits of their short term advantage, and they go back to being unable to do anything except die, like when PoF first came out.

I'm tired of it being completely reliant on offhand sword when I'm a rev who has been playing since its release and prefers the days of having axe/shield offhands be viable options while also having a class that isn't totally useless outside of its damage. Clearly rev used to be just fine with axe/shield when retribution wasn't literal garbage and before all the other assorted damage nerfs. I think you're actually on the same page with me here- OH sword is the only thing keeping rev in the meta, the difference is that I don't like that. I don't want to see the core of revenant destroyed even more because the class is still too strong due to a different problem, which is offhand sword. I think we can agree that the core of this class has already been stomped on, eaten, and spit out.

Until offhand sword gets rightfully nerfed this build will always be propped up into the meta unless they destroy the core of the build even more. Which is probably what will happen lol

These are rare but not inexplicably, indescribably rare as the infusions are. These can drop from ANY mistborn coffer and the meta can be farmed multiple times a day for lots of chances at it. I probably did over 50 metas by the time I dropped mine and likely have opened well over a thousand chests. It seems to be similar to the Tequatl's Hoad in terms of drop rate although we obviously can't say that yet.

Sometimes having something be 1:1000 rare is good, but 1:1000000 is not good. I honestly think this set and the Teq set are the good kind of rare, and that's not just because one dropped for me, I've never gotten a Teq drop in my life lol.

Rev damage is toned way up in WvW but so are defenses, in terms of raw toughness numbers being high, better access to passive traits that have been nerfed in PvP, longer boon durations, and now the simple fact that you can run with your mount. So if you're going to run full glass expect to get hit like full glass.

In addition, rev damage is far from the most ridiculous damage in WvW. Soulbeast can one-pump you from 1800 range regardless of your toughness. If you're glassier, rifle warrior can hit you for 3/4 of your health when you're least expecting it- deadeye can do the same from range. Arc divider can one-pump most classes without passives even after the nerfs. Fresh air ele can one-combo. Eat a reaper shroud 4 and you're dead. Power mes can still one-shot burst easily if you're caught unaware.

In PvP toughness is nearly useless on most classes, before I stopped regularly playing PvP I didn't even notice that great of a difference between demo and mara amulets. I actually have found it easier to kill targets in PvP despite the far lower numbers on all skills ranging from sword 2, sword autos, staff 5, long cd on warding rift, trash incensed response, trash roiling mists, trash shared empowerment.

The culprit is then obviously not precision strike. It's off hand sword. This trash designed weapon is the same damage-wise in WvW and PvP and is the only thing keeping rev in the PvP meta. I've been saying it a lot, nerf off hand sword and buff axe and shield. Maybe nerfing this will allow the ridiculous pressure to go away, and maybe buffing other weapons will allow rev to have some utility rather than being a one-shot bot.

Yeah agreed. Previewing it earlier compared to now, the whole boot manages to look more awkward especially considering it was already quite large with the hook and the particle effects. It's actually a lot more difficult for me to find a good leg skin to pair with them, and makes it difficult for me to use on light/med.

To clarify I'm also in accordance with you other class players in this thread discussing how damage was too high. I do think this is a step in the right direction, but:

1) Nerfing core invocation traits because sword offhand is broken is stupid.

2) Whether this continues in the right direction with the next patch, once rev has hopefully fallen out of PvP meta, is of primary importance.

3) Make this class less of a one-trick pony please.

Realistically here, this was pretty easy to see coming. After already being nerfed in PvP in late 2016 herald fell out of the meta and was only put back in the meta due to the balance team giving it a ton of steroids allowing ridiculously easy might generation as well as the sword offhand rework (which I'd argue we'd be better without).

Instead of improving the weak points of revenant such as condi cleanse, self sustain, reliance on herald, and any sort of ability to hold a point (goodbye ventari bunker lul), everything was ignored (or outright fundamentally changed/nerfed/deleted*) in favor of giving the class more damage and making it easier and easier to land that damage with sword offhand. And so of course rev got more and more and more damage, coupled with some nerfs to other meta classes, until that damage simply could not be ignored in PvP.

*Some things that have been **fundamentally** (i.e. not just numbers, enumerating all of the number-wise nerfs would take forever LUL) changed/nerfed/deleted since rev first came out:

Equilibrium (Big F)

Impossible Odds

Pretty much the whole Retribution traitline

Sword offhand (goodbye defense, MOAR DAMAGE)

Herald F2 (goodbye boons, use it in Shiro for MOAR DAMAGE)

Double stab from herald

Radiant Revival

The one good addition to help with boons... Draconic Echo! Can't complain about that trait.

At any rate, I've listed enough of rev's true utility being removed, so everyone here gets the picture if they didn't already. Despite previously being a subpar, unplayed build, sword offhand and all the might generation got buffed to the point that we now had a formerly intricate class design with equilibrium, old ability to flash IO, and the option to run different offhands completely scrapped in favor of a dumbed-down, glorified one-shot bot.

So now it's no wonder that since condi mirage has been hit hard and thus the biggest counter is much less common, heralds are cancering up PvP with the same dumb one-shot spam burst. And it's no wonder that literally everyone else is complaining about getting ganked by two, sometimes even three heralds running the same build on one team. Realistically, good riddance on this sword/sword build. Build it from the ground up. This build is boring to play and boring to face. But seeing Incensed Response reduced to absolutely nothing in PvP, and seeing Roiling Mists go to a flat 10% precision when you have fury? That's a grand total of 210 stats. As a GRANDMASTER MAJOR trait.

Please feast your eyes on the following:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Quarry

Rangers have access to a trait that gives a flat 10% precision with fury. So we're even. Oh wait, no we're not. When the ranger has fury, they also get 250 ferocity or 16.7% extra crit damage. In addition, if they're below 75% health, their uptime on fury from this trait will be all but 100%. So I was all in favor of this sword/sword one-shot bot build being reworked, but now the balance team has completely destroyed a trait that had always been a staple of revenant in PvP.

Please, if you're going to nerf this build, also pay attention to the fact that there are pretty much no other viable builds for this class that has been stuck in beta since release in 2015. What's a renegade? What's a condi rev? What's a Ventari bunker? Actually, what's a herald, outside of this one build? Maybe pay attention to the fact that only one offhand weapon is ever used. Why not nerf sword offhand (or outright revert the rework) and improve the utility of axe and shield? Why not, in exchange for nerfing might generation, improve herald's generation of other boons that might make it a more self-sufficient class and not just a gank bot? That's thief's job.

The staff and salvation rework was a move in the right direction. This is just a panic move. Give this class an actual identity for once, people.

/endrant

It's cliche, it's not the most interesting idea one could have. But the other two heavy classes can use it, and I'm sure the devs can come up with a unique interesting way to use it for our class. GS is going to be my choice.

Of course, it's contingent on new ESpecs ever being made. Which, given the great direction the game is heading in now, is looking a little more likely. But not guaranteed by any means.

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > Get thicker skin, or just block them the second you see a message. How this can be so hard for some of you people is beyond me.

>

> No need to get salty over people getting salty because they tried to whisper someone who was set to offline whispering them salt :-)

True fact my friend lmao

Get thicker skin, or just block them the second you see a message. How this can be so hard for some of you people is beyond me.

Changes are okay for staff, I guess.

I'm alright with #2 although I will miss that guaranteed daze on a rez or stomp. The healing is surprisingly nice, even though it's only about 600 baseline and around 900 while hitting an enemy, that can add up into more self-sustain. Does cater to the less skilled players as you can literally spam off cd and get extra heal.

3 is meh, I prefer the old projectiles not only to help with stealth tracking but also to either blind while kiting or force a dodge.

4 change is, well, a straight buff. No complaints.

I love the new Salvation line, and I was even trying a bunker-ish build with Herald, Salvation, and Retribution with my normal dps armor and weapons. It worked surprisingly well with the barrier trait as well as the 15% DR. Quite good to add more build diversity although I'll leave it up to Ventari players whether it's good for actual healer rev.

With the introduction of Dark Aura I naturally looked toward Mallyx and Unyielding Anguish as a Dark field. Thematically, the new design of the Dark Aura fits Mallyx perfectly. However, despite having "leap" in the name, it doesn't count as a leap finisher. In fact, revenant as a class has 0 leap finishers.

I understand that the field is only technically created at the end of the leap; however, I think it'd be reasonable to rework the skill to be more like Weaver's Fire Sword 2 (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Uprising). The skill has a 30 energy cost already and is a relatively short distance leap, mostly used to cover the ground in fights where AoEs may not be given the most attention.

Clearly, considering the design of Flame Uprising and Blinding Powder (Thief Pistol 5), we already have a precedent for skills that both create a combo field and finish in that combo field. I don't think it's unreasonable to at least take a look at Unyielding Anguish. Mallyx revenants suffer from low active defense and the Dark Aura could certainly help.

Not so sure about the staff changes, it seems like it will reduce our offensive output significantly especially with staff 2 no longer being able to daze rezzes. As for staff 3, I'll miss the projectiles as the blind helped when kiting. Might have to do an about face juke now to make sure you land it.

So it seems that staff's buff in exchange is to produce more healing orbs, and for staff 2 to heal. This depends heavily on the numbers, but if they are halfway decent, we would see a tradeoff of rev staff pressure for increased sustain, which is what most people seem to want- less damage, a little more self-sustain. We'll have to see the numbers.

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> Can we just nerf Mirage and buff incisorr? Everybody wins.

Patch notes:

Made Incisorr's brain wrinkly instead of smooth.

Don't underrate upkeeping Impossible Odds when you know your opponent has burned their ports or some gap closers. The superspeed can be kept up long enough to usually get staff 3/5 or sword 5 off cooldown. Of course if you have a valid target, go for the phase, and abuse terrain so that you bypass a hill or even end up on the top of the bridge. That takes map knowledge of course as well as a good sense of what exactly 1200 range is and where you're going to end up. Riposting Shadows is something that I use more as a directional change than a true escape tool.

If stuck in Glint, drop Elemental Blast behind you, put Facet of Light on passive, and use Facet of Chaos to give you the superspeed that will keep you going until legend swap is off cooldown.

can we take a second to appreciate this man literally citing his own thread as a source

> @"displayname.8315" said:

> > @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > People act like roamers are actually what's wrong with this gamemode. It is perfectly fair, reasonable, and has been in the game since launch that a small-scale built player could take down a zergling easily.

>

> If you work off that assumption then some of the pro-gank arguments are true. In my experience a good player with a more traditional WvW build can do well enough, or can get away with ease, or can outplay sometimes.

>

> Most of the people who go down are newbs. Boring for both parties involved. Guys need to pay attention to rank. If I see a no-rank spamming 1 and moving terribly I let them go. I see others doing the same in fights sometimes.

>

> But whatever if you want to be mean to the newbs its a sandbox mode after all.

>

>

I prefer good fights against other capable players without a doubt, and that has never changed. However, I'm referring to the garbage "havoc" groups who will never fight even numbers with this comment in addition to zerglings. The game has become even easier to play for these players who do nothing but outnumber- meanwhile it's harder to pick off these players in 1v1 scenarios considering they just hightail it off.

I don't really gank noobs unless it's a scenario where I need participation. But catching zerglings and catching subpar "havoc" 3v1ers off guard has been part of the game since its inception and that is what is dying here. Quality of roaming fights has not gone up at all, simply because the quantity of said fights has somehow decreased even more.

People act like roamers are actually what's wrong with this gamemode. It is perfectly fair, reasonable, and has been in the game since launch that a small-scale built player could take down a zergling easily. This provided an extra layer to macro play in any given matchup in that one would naturally fear a server with a lot of roamers as individual parts of your large force would get picked off when trying to return to the fight. A gank squad has been a completely viable way to help your server win fights and matchups. I've done it myself on many occasions, picking off players trying to return to defend their bay on the way from garrison or the like. And you know what? That helped our server win those fights and take (or defend) those objectives.

Now I'm not exclusively a roamer although I have been for the past 2 years. I paid my dues in the zerg and was on the other side of this equation plenty of times- and I still have no bone to pick with smallscale players. To have players mount up and triple dodge through any players that may want to fight and kill them makes defense and massive blobbing even easier and more braindead. Recently I was taking north camp with two friends, and we saw the same person die, respawn, mount up, run back, and repeat this process 7 times over the course of 10 minutes. Of course, said player was absolutely terrible as were his servermates, or we'd have lost that engagement after, I don't know, the third time they ran back.

OP, you are one of the only people I see defending this terrible design choice, which is probably because you play nothing but necro, which is a class balanced around being slow but powerful once it joins the fight. This mount allows horrible players to run away from 1v1 or other even-scale scenarios. But who's the first to triple leap in with their mount and engage you once they have the numbers advantage? That's right, these same trash players who full disengaged from you earlier. That includes the poor widdle necro who jumps in with the mount and presses all their shade skills on you once they have a 5v1.