Eurantien.4632

Some serious investment to get those damage numbers!

A 13k Net Health:Damage swing per target is a little high, no?

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"CroTiger.7819" said:

> > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > > As "good" as condi ranger is in solo queue, it's absolutely worthless in team play. There is nothing on it that stops the enemy team from killing you. They can say, "focus the condi ranger till it dies" and it will die faster than anything else on your team.

> > >

> > > Its better for escape from +1 than power... you can farm squishy pets with traps after you see swap. If they chase you can just stealth with heal use fortitude imunnity while tanking in healing spring... What you can also do is poison trap + dagger 4 and entangle so they will waste many cd and since you are not playing solo vs 5 ppl your team can use advantage if they good. You can also prestealth for 15sec. Healing spring provides full condi cleanse for party (on smaller nodes it shines) while you can save teamates with cc and snares. But yes ranger lacks teamplay in general thats why its not used much in tournaments...

> >

> > If a 5 man team wanted a condi ranger dead, no amount of team support would save it.

>

> Wow you're reaching hard here. That's the case for every spec in the game. Especially glassbow, after the GS nerfs. Good luck with that lol.

No one plays glass ranger in competitive

> @"CroTiger.7819" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > As "good" as condi ranger is in solo queue, it's absolutely worthless in team play. There is nothing on it that stops the enemy team from killing you. They can say, "focus the condi ranger till it dies" and it will die faster than anything else on your team.

>

> Its better for escape from +1 than power... you can farm squishy pets with traps after you see swap. If they chase you can just stealth with heal use fortitude imunnity while tanking in healing spring... What you can also do is poison trap + dagger 4 and entangle so they will waste many cd and since you are not playing solo vs 5 ppl your team can use advantage if they good. You can also prestealth for 15sec. Healing spring provides full condi cleanse for party (on smaller nodes it shines) while you can save teamates with cc and snares. But yes ranger lacks teamplay in general thats why its not used much in tournaments...

The revenant or necro would reveal you, not to mention your traps just reveal you too. If a 5 man team wanted a condi ranger dead, no amount of team support would save it.

As "good" as condi ranger is in solo queue, it's absolutely worthless in team play. There is nothing on it that stops the enemy team from killing you. They can say, "focus the condi ranger till it dies" and it will die faster than anything else on your team.

WS is officially the most needed its ever been.

Both firebrand and core guard are carried by symbols.

Nerf symbols.

Classes that are good 1v1 shouldn't have AoE.

Its just ridiculous that renegade can have its elite skill that can give everyone inside it 400 life steal per hit with no internal cool down. And they get free 48 hits (16 x 3 targets) of life steal on their elite because of these runes. It's their only source of damage and all around just a stupid mechanic that should be gone.

1. Put an ICD.

2. Remove Mad King Runes

> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Outside of various bugfixes, the main balance tweaks we have in today’s build are some adjustments to Soulbeast damage, most notably the single-hit potential of both Maul and Worldly Impact, but also reducing Soulbeast damage output in general. We’ve seen a lot of discussion on the topic and a lot of discussion on what adjustments make sense to bring the damage down, so we wanted to provide some details around what we did and why.

>

> There were a handful of things that were considered:

> * Marksmanship traits (Moment of Clarity+Remorseless)

> * Sic’Em

> * Beastmastery attribute bonuses while merged

> * Merged attribute bonuses from ferocious pets

> * Power coefficients of Maul and Worldly Impact

>

> Marksmanship adjustments were dismissed pretty early due to the impact they would have on other ranger builds, notably core ranger builds that rely more heavily on marksmanship due to the absence of Sic’Em, other multipliers from the soulbeast traitline, and the stat bonuses from merging. In addition, we’re currently less concerned with the build of soulbeast, beastmastery, marksmanship. This is the glassiest iteration of soulbeast and while it hits the largest numbers, it's also extremely vulnerable to enemy pressure. We’ll definitely be keeping an eye on the build moving forward as it will still be able to have massive single hits under ideal conditions, but in general we expect it to be held in check by more balanced builds in the meta.

>

> Moving on, we essentially had two choices. Shaving coefficients of Maul and Worldly impact was definitely warranted, so the remaining question was whether we hit Sic’Em or the soulbeast merge bonuses to make up the remaining damage reduction. We went with the attribute adjustments due to how free they are, or rather the lack of opportunity cost. Beastmastery is full of valuable traits and is a strong choice even in the absence of the soulbeast specialization, so the bonus attributes while merged are just bonus value on top. Similarly, many of the ferocious pets like gazelle and smokescale are already competitive options before considering the extra 200 power and 100 ferocity while merged. Sic’Em, while a powerful utility skill (and probably still a bit overtuned relative to where we want offensive utilities to be), does require a slot on the skill bar, and we’d rather see players continue to slot Sic’Em to maximize damage than simply replace it with something else had we nerfed it and left the merge buffs alone. For some frame of reference, the combination of changes we made is a slightly heavier nerf than if we reduced the Sic’Em multiplier from 25% to 15%, plus the shaves to power coefficients on top of that.

>

> These changes may be a bit light overall, but as we talked about previously our plan is to make smaller, more controlled adjustments more often and re-evaluate as needed with the goal of improving balance in the long run.

>

> That's all for today's update. There's definitely more to discuss balance-wise than just soulbeast, and we'll have more to talk about in a future post.

>

>

> -The Systems Team

>

>

> Here are the relevant soulbeast changes for anyone who doesn't want to cross-check with the update notes, but definitely go check out the notes for the full list of bugfixes.

> * Pack Alpha: Reduced stats granted to merged soulbeasts from 150 to 75 in PvP and WvW.

> * Pet's Prowess: Reduced ferocity granted to merged soulbeasts from 300 to 150 in PvP and WvW.

> * Ferocious (Soulbeast Pet Archetype Effect): Reduced power granted from 200 to 100 in PvP and WvW.

> * Maul: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.36 in PvP and WvW.

> * Worldly Impact: Reduced power coefficient from 1.512 to 1.36 in PvP and WvW.

>

>

So, I see it was decided just to nerf marksmanship and greatsword on soulbeast as well... neat...

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > > Honestly I'm ok with Shiro. It takes a lot of skill to play the build, and the bad Shiros in lower tiers are easy enough to kill. I say keep observing top tier balance, and make changes in the future if needed.

> >

> > They literally aren't.

>

> But all you play is glassbow, which Shiro hard-counters. you're gonna have a much harder time with GS CD increases as of today. So you're coming from that perspective.

Power ranger counters shiro, you've got that wrong. I play everything on ranger....?

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> Honestly I'm ok with Shiro. It takes a lot of skill to play the build, and the bad Shiros in lower tiers are easy enough to kill. I say keep observing top tier balance, and make changes in the future if needed.

They literally aren't.

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > > Excellent, focused nerfs. Now people might try other builds that aren't faceroll. We'll be seeing a lot more condi Soulbeasts.

> > >

> > > GS is less mandatory now. Try shortbow people, it's good man.

> > >

> > > Their next step as I see it is to bring Druid back up. Staff needs a rework.

> >

> > We won't see any viable condi builds for some time. It doesn't stand up at higher tiers especially when prot holo is gonna be a meta side noder along with renegade. Condi ranger has awful teamfights and poor 1v1s. It's not gonna be meta past plat 1

>

> Couldn't disagree more. the build I'm playing right now does great in 1v1's. 6.4k heal + resistance for everyone, immob spam, and Concussive Shot is bad in team fights? Have you tried any builds other than glassbow, and are you just making assumptions? I'm doing fine in plat 2 so far, and I'm rusty AF. So I think you're off the mark in this case.

>

> Prot holos just ate it today. Did you sleep in?

Post a build and I'll give it a shot but i am highly skeptical

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> Excellent, focused nerfs. Now people might try other builds that aren't faceroll. We'll be seeing a lot more condi Soulbeasts.

>

> GS is less mandatory now. Try shortbow people, it's good man.

>

> Their next step as I see it is to bring Druid back up. Staff needs a rework.

We won't see any viable condi builds for some time. It doesn't stand up at higher tiers especially when prot holo is gonna be a meta side noder along with renegade. Condi ranger has awful teamfights and poor 1v1s. It's not gonna be meta past plat 1

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> Why they nerfed gazelle instead birds?

If you didn't know, birds die.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > I want to remind ppl that while holo may be stronger overall than ranger, which is obvious since conditions hard counter ranger, that ranger even at high skill lvls of the mu will eventually beat holo in the 1v1.

> >

> > Core ranger cannot beat prot holo. At equal skill levels prot holo wins.

>

> No neither of them wins that MU in reality, just whoever has more knockback. Which if u arent playing bad is always Ranger so ranger slowly win if skill is very equal and in the case of ranger being more skilled the MU isn’t even close

You're wrong. But ok.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > longbow range,

>

> Which has a bugged (1.8k-1.9k) range since who knows when

>

> While mesmer has bugged (less damage than intended) mirror blade, double bugged power block (3s icd, doesn't increase maul's CD).

Good thing mesmer is immune to projectile hate while ranger isnt then!

> @"kiwituatara.6053" said:

> Whoa, Eurantien, you still around! Can you send me a good WvW power build for soulbeast? I'm out of the loop

I haven't WvW'd in a long time so I couldn't really help you out there, I would just run some variant of a dps build from PvP maybe with some PvE flair due to different sigils and runes and stats and stuff

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Full DPS Berserker/Eagle Longbow Soulbeast is definitely still a hard counter to any Necromancer build

>

> One Wolf Pack > Quick Zephyr > Sic Em > Barrage > Rapid Fire

>

> If it's somehow still alive, follow up with Maul > Hilt Bash > Maul > WI = Dead Necromancer

>

> It still deals a lot more damage than a Core Necro can sustain if he doesn't have cross pressure from his team being applied to the Soulbeast

Unless there are walls. Then the necromancer hard counters the soulbeast.

Although mandatory for core, it's not mandatory for soulbeast

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> I want to remind ppl that while holo may be stronger overall than ranger, which is obvious since conditions hard counter ranger, that ranger even at high skill lvls of the mu will eventually beat holo in the 1v1.

Core ranger cannot beat prot holo. At equal skill levels prot holo wins.

> @"Solaerin.8635" said:

> Idk man, I feel like, 'when you use Lightning Reflexes right next to someone with shocking aura you get stunned again' is just such a clear-cut example of a L2P issue. Competitive ranger builds usually run three incredibly strong stunbreaks, and an elite skill that grants stab. You need to know what the enemy team has and play around it.

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)

> >

> > BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thing

> >

> >

> Slapping stability on lightning reflexes so that you can evade through aoe cc's like fear walls, static fields, lines of warding, etc. would make it such a ridiculously bloated and overpowered skill. It would be a literal get out of jail free card on a 24s cd lol

Yeah, you're right. When I wrote that I was thinking about not getting restunned and not about rings. You should 100000% get punished for LR in a ring.

Alternatively, scale the damage back to what it used to be! (But no dmg would be better)

~~BEST would be to give it 0.5s of stab (enough that you can still CC someone at the end of it) but this way the ranger won't get stuck in like Mud Slide, or Slick Shoes, or other weird stuff that interrupts ranger at the start of the cast like engi electro shield 5 thing~~

@"Trevor Boyer.6524"

I am under the impression stacking toughness has diminishing returns. Like if I start at 0 and i add 200 toughness I gain around 6% dmg reduction.

+200 = 6% dmg reduction

+400 = 12% dmg reduction

+600 = 17.5% dmg reduction

Going from +400 to 600 a difference of 200 now has only 5.5% dmg reduction

Next +200 (+800 total) is diminished again to plus 5% more dmg reduction relative to that +600 total.

The thing is you just get the best effective health pool with knights than anything else because your heals have higher effective healing power than with menders due to healing power scaling nerfs and the existence of knights.

And you're not wrong. Without knights amulet the ranger cant just tank a point and dmg and all of a sudden it becomes wildly harder to hold a node, keep yourself alive, and keep your pet alive.

You basically have to choose 2 without knights vs good players.

> @"God.2708" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I wasn't blowing cooldowns offensively in that matchup. You have absolutely 0 idea what you're talking about. That video you posted is hilariously bad btw.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Read it again, but slowly

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You're one to talk, dude who got carried by his pet and didnt dodge any of the holo's skills

> > > > > > > > > > Seriously dude learn to play. No dodges no heals and you last over a minute. Any other class would have destroyed you in less than 10s.

> > > > > > > > > > also :

> > > > > > > > > > 

> > > > > > > > > > This is the damage the elite of the tiger does to you and you are running a weird glass build with no damage, vitality or toughness. Seriously you should learn to play.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > you mean 4,7k dmg to a scrapper with 3,3k toughness ? light armor with no toughness would have taken almost 10k :D

> > > > > > > > Do you mean :

> > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > > > 3k power, **berserkers amulet**. Please tell me more about how power builds should deal with this. 3.3k armor+perma protection for the ranger, who only needs to press 1 and kite to win. So is the solution to core ranger that you should only fight them with condi builds? lmao

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That's 0 toughness. That dude has no toughness at all whatsoever. To a tanky target it would not reach 2K. Do please bother to read the thread at least before writing no sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > my bad, didnt pay attention

> > > > > > In case people are blind, ranger isnt running MS nor does know how to maul before F2, heh

> > > > >

> > > > > I know that pets can hit for 10-15k, doesnt excuse me from reading poorly, this is preety much 2 troll builds fighting eachother not much to gauge from that

> > > >

> > > > Pets could hit 10k in 2013. They were nerfed then. They can't hit that high now.

> > >

> > > Wrong! I got hit for 11k by a gazelle last week so saying pets can't do 10k is strait up bs. Yes I was playing a squishy thief with 16k hp but 11k is 11k

> >

> > Right sorry, a 25 might stacked 25 vuln on target, fully buffed with BM and MM and Sic Em pet does hit for more than that. Same way holo can do 18k Overheats. But we aren't complaining about that because these things don't happen very often.

> >

> > Keep it in perspective please.

>

> Ooo I forgot sic'em. If they were running that instead of Protect Me or something that gazelle could missile a thief for 16,287 damage. Assuming it didn't fly off to Narnia instead.

Yeah, this is unfortunately the source of a lot of confirmation bias. None of these people complaining about the pet dmg actually realize how many times the F2s or pet skills just hit absolutely nothing

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I wasn't blowing cooldowns offensively in that matchup. You have absolutely 0 idea what you're talking about. That video you posted is hilariously bad btw.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Read it again, but slowly

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You're one to talk, dude who got carried by his pet and didnt dodge any of the holo's skills

> > > > > > > > Seriously dude learn to play. No dodges no heals and you last over a minute. Any other class would have destroyed you in less than 10s.

> > > > > > > > also :

> > > > > > > > 

> > > > > > > > This is the damage the elite of the tiger does to you and you are running a weird glass build with no damage, vitality or toughness. Seriously you should learn to play.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > you mean 4,7k dmg to a scrapper with 3,3k toughness ? light armor with no toughness would have taken almost 10k :D

> > > > > > Do you mean :

> > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > 3k power, **berserkers amulet**. Please tell me more about how power builds should deal with this. 3.3k armor+perma protection for the ranger, who only needs to press 1 and kite to win. So is the solution to core ranger that you should only fight them with condi builds? lmao

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's 0 toughness. That dude has no toughness at all whatsoever. To a tanky target it would not reach 2K. Do please bother to read the thread at least before writing no sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > my bad, didnt pay attention

> > > > In case people are blind, ranger isnt running MS nor does know how to maul before F2, heh

> > >

> > > I know that pets can hit for 10-15k, doesnt excuse me from reading poorly, this is preety much 2 troll builds fighting eachother not much to gauge from that

> >

> > Pets could hit 10k in 2013. They were nerfed then. They can't hit that high now.

>

> Wrong! I got hit for 11k by a gazelle last week so saying pets can't do 10k is strait up bs. Yes I was playing a squishy thief with 16k hp but 11k is 11k

Right sorry, a 25 might stacked 25 vuln on target, fully buffed with BM and MM and Sic Em pet does hit for more than that. Same way holo can do 18k Overheats. But we aren't complaining about that because these things don't happen very often.

Keep it in perspective please.