Elementalist Owner.7802

"before" everyone quits

I got news for you buddy. Everyone already quit.

> @"Vithzerai.3291" said:

> > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > > > > @"Lala.8752" said:

> > > > > > > seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Stop using squishy amulets :)

> > > > >

> > > > > But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.

> > > >

> > > > Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?

> > > >

> > > > "Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition

> > >

> > > Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.

> >

> > In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.

> >

> > Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.

>

> It definitely has become more dumbed down, without a doubt, but pretty sure as I've said somewhere else, if you pitted the best players against mediocre or even high tier players with exactly the same build in a duel you'd quite easily see a world of difference. Same thing with a 5 man team in a game.

>

> "Mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can." is a bit disingenuous.

I would agree with you that the "best" players (MAT winners and maybe the top 10 ranked leaderboard players) could beat almost anyone in the game, although not with the level of consistency that we had seen in the HoT days when skill mattered more.

You also have to consider that these players are exceptional, so not the best example to use when we're talking about the entire PvP scene. They stand out because they are leagues better than the rest in terms of mechanical skill and rotational knowledge. You have to look at a more saturated sample of the playerbase, such as the platinum, gold, and silver leagues, where the difference in skill is not as dramatic. At these levels, you can clearly see that the difference in skill hardly affects the outcome of the fight or match.

The "mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can" line was a bit of hyperbole lol. I got carried away when arguing with those soulbeast mains who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > > > @"Lala.8752" said:

> > > > > seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class

> > > >

> > > > Stop using squishy amulets :)

> > >

> > > But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.

> > >

> > > Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.

> >

> > Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?

> >

> > "Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition

>

> Sure who mashes the right buttons at the right time in the right place... That's the question. Every game is just mashing buttons, at least on pc anyway.

In good games you have to think about every action. In GW2, it mostly comes down to spamming as hard as you can. I don't think you understand how dumbed down the game has gotten since the HoT days... A bronze league player from those days could easily reach platinum now because skill is hardly a factor anymore.

Most of the former ESL players have quit the game and/or come out vocally about how faceroll the meta has become. This is not even a debate. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows what they are talking about. I know you casuals AKA GW2's target audience in 2019 like being able to roll your faces on your keyboards to win, but that is not how competitive games are supposed to work.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"bigo.9037" said:

> > > @"Lala.8752" said:

> > > seriously kitten everything two shot everything, ok nerf every passive trait was a good idea because it was so kitten but pls nerf a bit all damage of every class

> >

> > Stop using squishy amulets :)

>

> But he won't be able to 2 shot things if he don't use a squishy amulet.

>

> Anyway, in one thread people point out the damage and in the other people point out the defense. Somehow I guess this mean that overall damage and defense are balanced.

Rock paper scissors is balanced. Flipping a coin is balanced. Would you do either of those things for fun?

"Balance" does not matter when every meta build is so overpowered that the game feels like a button mashing competition

Never thought I would say this, but I really miss the days when you could pinpoint a single class that was overperforming in PvP. Back then, it was easy to say that "X class is ruining the game!"

But now it's like every class is so broken and faceroll that there isn't an easy answer to this question. Every top-performing build in the current meta needs a nerf.

It went from one class being annoying to the entire game mode being unplayable. Man, I wish I hadn't taken things for granted back then!

> @"Mordayn.6198" said:

> Ok, it's time anet takes a look at one of the worst balanced abilities in the game. Soulbeast https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unstoppable_Union is a minor trait that gives them a 4s unblockable on a 10s cd if they go into beastmode then drop it. The issue is that unblockable doesn't only work on blocks, it also bypasses projectile destruction. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable . This ability has no counter play other than dodge but good luck trying to dodge against a 4s 10s cd unblockable proc. Honestly what they should do is tie unblockable to only bypass block mechanics and allow projectile reflect and destruction to be a viable counter to it. This would keep the trait viable as it would still be able to get through blocks but wouldn't be a god tier proc like it is now. They'd still have an extremely low cd proc of it for melee attacks and range if the target doesn't have projectile reflect or destruction. In it's current state though, it bypasses dynamic defensive gameplay of too many skills and is way too powerful. Some classes don't have access to reflect so they are just getting eaten up by Soulbeast unblockable burst and it's not healthy for the game.

This is another example of ANet building power creep on top of core mechanics to make them irrelevant.

Blocks are made irrelevant because of the amount of unblockables they added to the game.

CC is made irrelevant because of the amount of stability they added to the game.

Stealth is made irrelevant because of the amount of reveal they added to the game.

These were once core elements of PvP that made combat interesting. When you take away their effectiveness, combat is reduced to repeatedly spamming your buttons on a rotation with no thought or effort.

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> Recently there have been a few complaints on Rev specifically Rev damage.

>

> First, I would like to point out that rev still has the LOWEST power damage and LOWEST power burst of ALL classes in a PVE environment. Yet, with that being the case rev still has pvp specific damage and CD nerfs to even further lower this damage.

>

> Second, there are very few Revs that are playing consistently at high skill rating. If you are going to call something out for being OP pertaining to Rev you might as well from now on just say “XXX out skilled me and I want him nerfed.”

>

> As we all know rev has the MOST EXPLOITABLE weaknesses of all classes. It’s quite easy to win against rev just by playing a certain way or a certain spec.

>

> So for the sake of keeping things short; maybe from now on don’t call out rev. Call out the specific rev that farmed you, and state why this specific person is OP. No need to cry against Rev *insert laughing emoji*.

Imagine stroking your ego on the forums of a dead, unbalanced game where power creep has removed talent and skill entirely from the equation, and 90% of the competitive scene has moved on with their lives.

Take the red pill and realize that ArenaNet will never fix power creep. It would take too much effort for something they don't consider to be profitable. Their priorities are monetization first, gameplay second, because apparently in 2019 a game doesn't need to be fun in order to monetize it. A good example of this backwards thinking is the recent Warclaw update. Adding a mount to WvW makes for some terrible gameplay, but they can sell skins so yeehaw let's ride brothers!

Instead of fixing power creep, they will build on top of it by adding more power creep in the form of new elite specs that you buy with the next expansion. This is how they deal with problems in GW2. Just build on top of them with new content that can be sold which creates more problems, and the cycle goes on and on...

Just think of a person who never showers or bathes, but instead puts on a ton of cologne to try to mask their stench. That's GW2.

I find it kinda hilarious that only the positives of the mount have been nerfed to uselessness. Travel speed is just fast enough that melee players can't do shit against anyone on a mount, and just slow enough that traveling across large distances is still painful. Whoever is in charge of this thing is truly a comedian.

> @"XECOR.2814" said:

> Wonder why 2 builds made to compliment each other and players actually working together communicating are considered toxic and 1shot deathmatchy style is alright in a 5man team game. People want no effort single player games. Otherwise you would want more interactability between classes not removing the class that have it. Fb+scg already can be overwhelmed with +1s in this power burst meta. In low rating i can see how people will struggle with fb+scg but i would rather advice them to "git gud" and outrotate them.

Oh boy, this post just shows a tremendous lack of understanding of the issue being discussed. It's almost not worth responding to, but knowing the balance team, they would actually listen to incredibly short-sighted posts like this one.

The problem with fb/scourge isn't that they work together and communicate. Reaper/tempest worked together in HoT meta and it was fine. The problem is that scourge can stand still and spam endless AoEs on the point while the firebrand spams endless support keeping them both alive. It's faceroll, easy mode, anti-fun garbage like this that has ruined PvP and chased off all former pro players. And no, it's not just fb+scourge that are spammy easy mode trash, but they are by far the longest withstanding offenders, having been a problem since the launch of PoF.

No thanks, I'm already bored of seeing 15 thirsty pew pew rangers in every map.

Why is there no option for "literally all of them"

Guys, these "nerf this spec!" "no, nerf that spec!" arguments are pointless because EVERY meta build needs to be nerfed. Why single something out just because you had an annoying experience against it in a recent game?

Take a look objectively and realize everything in this meta is anti-fun: Boonspam, power creep, 100-0 spike damage with no animations, evade while attacking, etc... All of these things are out of control and abused by multiple specs. We need to stop looking at balance from a "my main class vs. everything else" perspective and start caring about the healthiness of the game mode as a whole.

Griefing in WvW is a punishable offense, although I'm not sure if you're supposed to report them in-game or through customer support.

The Mag cloud era circa 2017

No commander? No problem. Just hop into EBG and there are 24/7 cloud fights around SMC.

I'm not sure, but I wish we had some transparency from the balance team in terms of the direction they are trying to steer the meta.

Do they have plans to fix the power creep? Or do they think the meta is in a good place right now? They need to tell us these things. Otherwise we're just sitting in the dark, with hope wearing thinner after every balance patch that the game might one day not suck.

Why are you trying to balance around broken PoF specs? We need nerfs across the board, not more power creep...

No, this is a symptom of the real issue. The real issue is the faceroll meta that has driven off nearly ALL of the skilled players who used to enjoy PvP.

So now you're left with the players who somehow enjoy rolling their faces on their keyboards to win, and of course people like that are going to be complete garbage at the game. The fact that you think the game is "balanced" probably puts you in that category.

Changes look good but I'm not stepping foot into PvP until we get proper balance and a non-spam meta

I am not surprised that the people who unironically "defend" objectives and care about PPT when winning means absolutely nothing, are the same people who come to the forums to complain about an insignificant change that slightly inconveniences their style of play which has been catered to (in the form of shield gens, hardened walls/gates, structural invulnerability, tactivators) since the dawn of WvW. Please stop making these threads.

Literally just play the game

Look at vanilla WvW, there were no shield gens, no structural integrity, no hardened gates, no tactivators, and the game was much more enjoyable. It actually took skill to defend objectives.

"We need a better balance on attacking and defending."

I agree. All the defensive mechanics they added need to be toned down.

> @"shiri.4257" said:

> > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > 1. The meta

> > 2. The meta

> > 3. The meta

> > 4. The meta

> > 5. Game mode is dead because all the good players quit due to the meta

> >

> > The meta has been dumbed down to "spam AoEs on the ground" or "spam your 300 support skills in any order you feel like lol"

> >

> > Even if every class was perfectly balanced, the meta would still be pure spam which is the opposite of fun.

>

> if they couldn't adapt to the meta they aren't really good. they're just another kodak.

The issue is that literally a monkey could adapt to this meta. Anyone with 3 brain cells can spam all of their buttons at once, that doesn't make you a "good" player.

1. The meta

2. The meta

3. The meta

4. The meta

5. Game mode is dead because all the good players quit due to the meta

The meta has been dumbed down to "spam AoEs on the ground" or "spam your 300 support skills in any order you feel like lol"

Even if every class was perfectly balanced, the meta would still be pure spam which is the opposite of fun.

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > Highest skill floor (only counting viable builds with the highest skill floor on the spec)

> >

> > 1. Ranger (longbow pew pew)

> > 2. Warrior

> > 3. Mesmer (condi garbage. power mes would be much lower on the list)

> > 4. Guardian (meditrapper build)

> > 5. Thief

> > 6. Engineer and Revenant

> > 7. Elementalist

> >

> > Necro is really hard for me to judge because I've never roamed with it and I very rarely see roaming necros

> >

> > Highest skill ceiling is difficult to calculate and I don't feel like finishing this post. Cheers!

>

> SKILL

>

> ur skill floor goes wrong way around :D

You're right, thanks for the correction.