STIHL.2489

Darling.. being beautiful never comes cheap.. no matter what.

Great Idea!

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> Any time I see someone ask a company to eliminate a source of revenue I wait, and hope, for the follow up where the person, the OP in this case, offers to make up the income shortfall out of their own pocket.

>

> Hasnt happened yet, but perhaps someday.

Oh that will never happen, just like the people that demand new or harder content will never offer to pay out for it.

> @"GwAddict.9746" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > What's the worst that happens if this gets put in? I mean really, lets be honest, Anet has implemented some really bad ideas already, would it really kill them to remove the Gold/Gem trade?

>

> No it wouldn't but instead it'll wipe the pay-to-win stigma from this game which is why I'm worried about. Currently in WvW, gears matters and that's a PvP environment.

>

I was not aware there was any P2W stigma in this game.

But that does not matter.. really.. what's the worst that happens if they do this?

* They take enough a fiscal hit they have to let go a lot of staff that slows their content production?

* They end up with a bunch of Gold Selling Bots, that drive away new players and lose money and reputation from that?

* They have to spend extra money to combat gold selling and thus need to pull from development?

* They close down from lack of Gem Sales?

Really.. what's a worst case scenario from this idea going live?

What's the worst that happens if this gets put in? I mean really, lets be honest, Anet has implemented some really bad ideas already, would it really kill them to remove the Gold/Gem trade?

If you run lists of "[Most Popular MMO](https://www.google.com/search?q=Most+Popular+MMO%27s&oq=Most+Popular+MMO%27s&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.8007j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 "Most Popular MMO")" in Google.. you will get reports of GW2 having anywhere between [1.5 (one point five)](https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-sorted-by-population-2018/ "1.5 (one point five)") to [3 (three) ](https://twinfinite.net/2018/05/most-popular-mmorpgs/9/ "3 ")million active users.

What is defined by "Active users" I have no idea. Feel free to check the links and see what others have said. Some cite sources, some don't.

**Added**:

Here you go. Some source info.

Here is where the [3 Million](

This is where the [1.5 Million](https://inanage.com/2018/02/05/estimating-gw2s-population/ "1.5 Million") came from.

From this, it seems that 1.5 is closer to reality then the 3 million, but, again, we have not gotten any real numbers directly from Anet or NCSoft regarding this.

> @"kurfu.5623" said:

> > @"Orpheal.8263" said:

>

> > But what I would love to see Anet making next as a complete new Franchise would be a MMORPG Game, that is not the classical typical medieval fantasy world setting, but more like a high tech fantasy mixture, which plays in the future - as a game that combines multiple diversive genres together.

>

>

> Wildstar tried that, and failed miserably.

>

To be fair, Wildstar failed for a lot of reasons, RNG effects on Raid Loot, and trying to cater to a "Hardcore" population are among it's top two screw ups, the setting was not.

They went from 1 to 2 so just feels natural that they would go to 3, especially given all the advancements that MMO's have had over the years.

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > > Raid release cadence.... well, if the raid does not consist of at least 4 really good bosses ( 4 bosses, not1 boss and 3 events, or 2 bosses and 2 events ) then the release cadence right now is completely unacceptable. Its too slow to get the hardcore players interested for a longer period. The wait between Bastion and Hall of chains already eroded some of the hardcore playerbase and if that new wing isn't good...

> > > > 6 months should be the maximum between raid releases or one raid every two episodes ( like what they plan with fractals now ) otherwise the hardcore playerbase will erode away and the game needs both casuals and hardcore players to thrive.

> > >

> > > The problem is that this game doesn't really support sophisticated instanced PvE anyway. The balance in PvE is horrible - especially concerning Support-Builds - and the game is far too un- if not asocial to cause a natural party-building-process; the reward-structures make it even worse. Raid-content is hardly accessible. ArenaNet needs to improve that to justify an increased focus on raids and fractals; especially since new episodes are just additional AP if ArenaNet sticks to its current design-philosophy. In that regard, any new raid-wing has a higher longevity than any new episode, making the raid-wing much more valuable than new maps. The problem is, that most people won't be able to enjoy that content due to accessibility-problems. People are already complaining that they can't enjoy the rich lore locked behind raids. An increased focus on raids would just split the already split community further.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > This is really a direction issue.

> >

> > At some point they really need to grab the helm and direct this flagship in some fixed direction, If they want raiders and want that demographic then they should focus on it, and make that the point of the game, and everyone else can either get involved or go find something else to play.

> >

> > But right now they do not have that kind of deftness of direction or are willing to make that kind of decision, as such they are trying to too hard to placate _everyone_ but this just ends up with a very fractured community, with all of them feeling neglected to some degree or another.

> >

> > Couple that with the fact they will have to make concessions on who should get the best rewards, and in doing so they will alienate the other demographics that either do not enjoy the content or lack the capacity in one way or another to do that content.

> >

> > There is no win for them in the way they are currently going about things.. IMHO.

>

> Problem is that this game CLEARLY never had a focus on raids. They're forcing it in a game that simply cannot really support it, same with the traditional role trinity.

>

> There's no direction and i'm starting to think that there hasn't BEEN any direction for a while now, the main focus is just throwing as much stuff as possible into the gem store.

Yup..

The game right now feels very _reactionary_ in it's development where they just try to _shove-in_ whatever is being made the most noise about regardless of how it will affect the game or the current population demographics.

But this might be brought about because they are funding the game though the store, which is unrelated to the game content itself, as such, their game development has a disconnect with their income source, so they really have no idea what content will bring in more income outside just more things in the store., so as far as the game itself goes, they are just tossing out anything they think will keep people around, which, IMHO, is having the exact opposite effect.

When they figure out what they are trying to do and where they want to go with this game.. hopefully by their next expansion... I'll come back and check them out.

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > Raid release cadence.... well, if the raid does not consist of at least 4 really good bosses ( 4 bosses, not1 boss and 3 events, or 2 bosses and 2 events ) then the release cadence right now is completely unacceptable. Its too slow to get the hardcore players interested for a longer period. The wait between Bastion and Hall of chains already eroded some of the hardcore playerbase and if that new wing isn't good...

> > 6 months should be the maximum between raid releases or one raid every two episodes ( like what they plan with fractals now ) otherwise the hardcore playerbase will erode away and the game needs both casuals and hardcore players to thrive.

>

> The problem is that this game doesn't really support sophisticated instanced PvE anyway. The balance in PvE is horrible - especially concerning Support-Builds - and the game is far too un- if not asocial to cause a natural party-building-process; the reward-structures make it even worse. Raid-content is hardly accessible. ArenaNet needs to improve that to justify an increased focus on raids and fractals; especially since new episodes are just additional AP if ArenaNet sticks to its current design-philosophy. In that regard, any new raid-wing has a higher longevity than any new episode, making the raid-wing much more valuable than new maps. The problem is, that most people won't be able to enjoy that content due to accessibility-problems. People are already complaining that they can't enjoy the rich lore locked behind raids. An increased focus on raids would just split the already split community further.

>

>

This is really a direction issue.

At some point they really need to grab the helm and direct this flagship in some fixed direction, If they want raiders and want that demographic then they should focus on it, and make that the point of the game, and everyone else can either get involved or go find something else to play.

But right now they do not have that kind of deftness of direction or are willing to make that kind of decision, as such they are trying to too hard to placate _everyone_ but this just ends up with a very fractured community, with all of them feeling neglected to some degree or another.

Couple that with the fact they will have to make concessions on who should get the best rewards, and in doing so they will alienate the other demographics that either do not enjoy the content or lack the capacity in one way or another to do that content.

There is no win for them in the way they are currently going about things.. IMHO.

Well, here is my take.

The game feels "Lost in Direction"

It feels like they are just trying to throw out a huge net to catch as many players as possible, and in doing so, they really don't have a direction.

As such, Like many others from Raiders to Casuals, I've taken a break from the game.

What I find sad however, is they are trying to retain players by putting out content to entertain them, but, they are not doing it fast enough, making it rewarding enough, and alienating other groups in the process.

I suppose I'll be back when they get their next expansion going to see if they sorted that out or not.. if not.. oh well.

> @"wrathmagik.3518" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > It's fair to say that if ANet wants to keep having a big studio, then _some day_ a sequel will be a better option than tinkering with GW2. But it's impossible to guess at when that "some day" might be, especially given all the other opportunities.

> > >

> > > It does not matter then when, all that matters is that we know it is a must be. The attrition of the games population as it ages makes it inevitable that they will need to move on to something else eventually..

> > >

> > > The only alternative to GW3 at this point, is if they do as @"Astralporing.1957" said, and move in a whole different direction.

> >

> > I think that Illconceived Was Na's point is that it's not _"at this point"_ it's _"at some point in the future perhaps after another decade or more"_.

>

> Even after a decade I highly doubt it.

>

> Is there a UO2 16? years later? Nope. Is there a WoW2 14 years later? Nope.

>

> Spinoff's like a moba like HOTS would be a great direction to go if any for Anet. Branch out from the same franchise and capitalise on that.

Just a point.

Mythic closed down.. so.. lets all hope that Anet does not follow that Direction.

WoW, is still the biggest western MMO's out, so they have no need to make a WoW2.. yet

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> It's fair to say that if ANet wants to keep having a big studio, then _some day_ a sequel will be a better option than tinkering with GW2. But it's impossible to guess at when that "some day" might be, especially given all the other opportunities.

It does not matter then when, all that matters is that we know it is a must be. The attrition of the games population as it ages makes it inevitable that they will need to move on to something else eventually..

The only alternative to GW3 at this point, is if they do as @"Astralporing.1957" said, and move in a whole different direction.

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Often times any mention of a decline in the game, it's funds or population, will be met with some whiteknight kind of justification that the game is older and attrition just happens.

> It's a fact that all games lose players. Heck, all human social organizations lose players, _unless_ they do something to bring in fresh blood. That's true for MMOs as well as things like political parties, book clubs, and even streaming services. It's got nothing to do with "justification" or "whiteknighting."

>

> > ...then GW2 is now in downward years,

> Yes, exactly. Like any MMO.

>

> > which means, a GW3, is not only a possibility,

> That's an interesting point.

>

> > but, a necessity. if Anena Net wants to see upward growth again.

> Except that this doesn't necessarily follow.

>

> ANet has seen upward growth, with each expansion. That won't be enough to completely mitigate the downward trend. Not everyone is cut out to play the same thing for more than five years. The question is: how long can ANet sustain their current business model, with the sort of expansions GW2 has had so far?

>

> You're correct that they can't allow the game to keep losing too many players. But there are many options:

> * Re-orient the expansions/LS towards those sorts of players willing to overspend in the gem shop. Fewer players spending more money.

> * Change the nature of the expansions/LS, in a way that is more likely to bring in people besides veterans on hiatus. The inclusion of Raids and Mounts works along these lines (attracting different sorts of players). Was it insufficient because ANet doesn't advertise well enough? Or because people are still looking for more traditional expansions (new races, no matter how cheezy, more instanced content, more maps, more powerful characters,...)

> * Reduce the size of the company, set more modest goals.

> * Produce a new game in a different genre (e.g some of the founders were previously involved in franchises that extended their longevity by adding strategy games to their RPG series).

> * Produce a new game on a different platform, e.g. GW2 polymock for phones.

> * Sell the company to a bigger studio that can afford the rest of the infrastructure that ANet has always lacked (e.g. more substantive support, underlying tech that can be applied efficiently to multiple games, instead of just one, ...)

> * And sure, put GW2 into maintenance mode, and start GW3.

>

> Selling the company is clearly among the more difficult because, well, ANet already has a big studio owner. But I think GW3 is just as unlikely in many ways, because it's an incredibly expensive choice to throw away the current tech and start again. Without a guarantee that the new sequel will be popular enough to make it all worthwhile. There are lots of other possible scenarios worth pursuing before they have to make that choice.

>

You have agreed with me that the game is in a natural downward progression, as such, it's best years are behind it, it is not a matter of if it becomes unsustainable, but when. As such, if they ever hope to boost numbers they need to put out a new game.

> @"Dengar.1785" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Julischka Bean.7491" said:

> > > "She wasn't writing on A'Net's behalf, she was writing on her personal page"

> > >

> > > Not sure who I am quoting...but her name was on this personal page, therefore she represents Anet. If she was writing under a creative name such as "Foxy Asura 999" that would be a personal page...to me at least.

> > > Lisa-Confused

> >

> > Expect that to be the Future, that Devs will not expose themselves on Social Media.

>

> Why? Everything is absolutely *fine* as long as you're not a complete kitten.

Ehh never-mind.. you just keep telling yourself this. I'm done. What is, Is.. what will be.. will be.

I hope the dev team takes this as the cautionary tale it is.. on all levels.

> @"Julischka Bean.7491" said:

> "She wasn't writing on A'Net's behalf, she was writing on her personal page"

>

> Not sure who I am quoting...but her name was on this personal page, therefore she represents Anet. If she was writing under a creative name such as "Foxy Asura 999" that would be a personal page...to me at least.

> Lisa-Confused

Expect that to be the Future, that Devs will not expose themselves on Social Media.

And the lesson learned here folks.. is never mix your professional life with your personal life, keep your social circle small and private, if you want to have a Professional presence on the Net, make a "professional account" that is clean, sanitized, and only used for polite self promotion to give to the public.

Anything else.. and you are asking for trouble.. like losing your job.

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > I've said it before, this is exactly why if I was a game developer, I would not interact with the community, I would hire PR people, and allow them to do their job.

>

> And if you were indeed that game developer, with the livelihood of 200ish people riding on one game....

The fact that I have no idea what you are even trying to say with this.. is yet another reason why I would not interact with the player base, and let PR handle things.

I've said it before, this is exactly why if I was a game developer, I would not interact with the community, I would hire PR people, and allow them to do their job.

What drove you away hasn't been fixed.. make your own decision from that.

Tome Your alts have your friends buy the expansion and use the level 8o boost, no one with the skill to chew though this game and seek challenge wants to waste time leveling toons.

Maybe. Often times any mention of a decline in the game, it's funds or population, will be met with some whiteknight kind of justification that the game is older and attrition just happens. As such, if these defenders are true, then GW2 is now in downward years, which means, a GW3, is not only a possibility, but, a necessity. if Anena Net wants to see upward growth again.

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> The graphs are exactly the same, identical, the percentage losses are identical, it clearly shows that the drop in the game's population was steady and started way before Heart of Thorns (unlike what you claimed

1: Yes the flow is the same.. because for no apparent reason.. the maker opted to apply some arbitrary exchange rate, I could change them to current exchange between Won and rupies, and it would have made no difference, as I still would have worked from NcSofts numbers, not that persons numbers, so it makes no sense to even bother to change them to start with.

2: Look at the chart again.. compare the downward slope Post HoT to Pre HoT.

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Notice how they are very slightly different? I'm gonna tell you something that will BLOW YOUR MIND!

> NCSoft quarterly results are in BILLION KOREAN WON, the reddit thread is in MILLION DOLLARS! Ever heard of the word "currency"?

>

> The current rate is 1 KRW =0.000923353USD

> So, 45,841 (3Q12) BILLION KOREAN WON is 42.3291 MILLION DOLLARS. The reddit thread has 42,840 (3Q12) instead because as everyone should know, currency exchanges change over time and the reddit thread is from 7 months ago.

LOL, and that is exactly why If they were going to get that involved, they should have used the exchange at the time of the quarter, as opposed to using the current exchange rate when the graph was made,, as that leads to misleading amounts and would make it so that any graph would change based on what it was made.. poor form truth be told.

They should have used the base unit that Anet provided to show consistency over the years, as opposed to applying some arbitrary exchange amount applied when the graph was made, as this would make a graph made 6 months prior or 6 months after show different numbers.. real bad way to do statistics.. unless you're trying to push an agenda.

Mind Blown Yet?

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > LOL.. how did Story Mode even affect Explorer mode.. Oh right.. now lets talk real truth.. it was not how hard or easy the content was, it was a lack of _incentive_ to do easy mode that killed dungeons not how hard or easy Explorer mode was.

> I don't know why you bring story mode in here, it's irrelevant.

Because they is the only "Easy Mode" for dungeons..

>

> > The only variable, between fractals, raids and dungeons at this point, is that they made moves to revise fractals to make them more rewarding for the lower tiers and more accessible to the more casual player. Where as they have so far, left Dungeons and Raids to deal with their fate.

> That happened with Heart of Thorns and you know it.

>

> > The fact that I have a little over 7K fractal relics, and completed the T1 fractal master (before the revision), all open pugged with "all welcome (please have enough AR)" to every run.. and never once did I ever have an issue filling a group or finishing a run, never once did I need to think about a static, and more often then not, each run I met new people, and most of the time they were really nice, I opted out of T3 because it seemed the attitude changed.. not sure what was up with that.. but.. none the less. my own personal experience in game counteract the idea that T1 - T2 was dead content at all.

> You do remember that tiers were added after Heart of Thorns right... I was talking about the time BEFORE the addition of precursor collections and daily achievements. Which are basically the only reason to run low level fractals and without those they'd die a sudden death.

LoL.. before the Tiers, all Fractals were classified as _Hardcore_ content regardless of tier, so it's no surprise to anyone they felt dead, it was only after they get revised to Tiers, making them more accessible to a larger demographic of gamers that the content truly came alive. LOL..you see the success of this method in other content.. and still deny..

Allow me to quote myself again:

> > Funny how you knew the truth but still clung to a lie...