BeepBoopBop.5403

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > > He is clearly the most skilled player of all time. He was outnumbered. They were a zerg that always rez before stomps according to some. He still somehow secured a kill against all odds.

> > > >

> > > > Ya'll got no argument and fall back on bad trolling lol it's quite sad

> > >

> > > Lol. You cherry pick your arguments too. DS needs to go because no matter what all day im 1v4 and should be able to win those consistently. Obviously I'm kidding about that guys skill

> >

> > Because that's the context it matters the most in lmao. It's not about winning consistently, it's about asking the question: why the kitten does the game offer this handicap mechanic that groups with lesser numbers cannot use as well as larger numbers. Larger numbers already have the advantage right? Answer that for me

>

> Yes larger numbers always do. Stop always being the lesser numbers. You just love it. Playing thief must be so fun on no ds week but just for the thief. You think players happy they get jumped from stealth w 3 dudes close to them and nothing nobody can do then you reset and kill another and another. Then you like look at me I just won 1 v 4. No you won 4 1 v 1 fights. I win 1 v 3 sometimes just spectral grasp spin to win on no ds. Am I skilled no. It's too easy no ds week then you also die to dumb af stuff. Not you of course but I do cause you forget. You think that guy in video that got mini engied with his zerg wasn't screaming at his monitor and that's with ds.

Does the zerg care about my happiness when they run me over? Is that skilled? Lol I'm pretty over taking you seriously.

So what you're saying is you WANT to get mechanic abused by lesser skilled players that let their HP deplete to 0. I mean, if you hate yourself go for it, leave the rest of us out of it.

PS. I'd love to roam on power revenant, but since February patch everything other than thief is just inefficient as fuck.

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > He is clearly the most skilled player of all time. He was outnumbered. They were a zerg that always rez before stomps according to some. He still somehow secured a kill against all odds.

> >

> > Ya'll got no argument and fall back on bad trolling lol it's quite sad

>

> Lol. You cherry pick your arguments too. DS needs to go because no matter what all day im 1v4 and should be able to win those consistently. Obviously I'm kidding about that guys skill

Because that's the context it matters the most in lmao. It's not about winning consistently, it's about asking the question: why the fuck does the game offer this handicap mechanic that groups with lesser numbers cannot use as well as larger numbers. Larger numbers already have the advantage right? Answer that for me

dOwnStaTe iS vErY gOoOd MecHanIc

gR8 iDeA

i AlSo pOst aNecDotaL cLiP

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> He is clearly the most skilled player of all time. He was outnumbered. They were a zerg that always rez before stomps according to some. He still somehow secured a kill against all odds.

Ya'll got no argument and fall back on bad trolling lol it's quite sad

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > * You should know that it doesn't matter how skilled someone is, you can't kill player getting ressed by a zerg, it takes like 3 seconds to stomp and they can fully heal the downed player in 1.2 secs, daredevil maybe the only class could cheese through that. I have no problem with stomping when there are 3-4 people around but it is definitely a big concern in big fights.

> Counterpoint, zerglings remain zerglings.

>

>

>

> Oh the argument is definetly going around in circles, people are just spinning around too much to notice it.

No idea what that clip proves. All I saw was a dude had to waste his most valuable cooldown to secure a stomp on a dead man.

A clip of the most half asleep squad I've ever seen does not represent WVW.

Also LMAO at showing a clip of downstate saying it ends the discussion, when no one is even rezzing.

> @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > > @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > > > > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state

> > > > > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's just going around in circles.

> > > >

> > > > Just give up. They are more skilled during no ds and we are more skilled during the 99 percent of the times there is no event

> > >

> > > no ds you become bag instantly, with ds you still become bag but takes a little longer, you died, you got downed, you are done, what "more skilled" you are talking about here? bag feeding skill?

> >

> > Oh so ds isn't an issue? You become a bag anyway? But I thought everyone was getting downed then rezzed? I explained to beepbeep. I'm talking about I have no issue securing the kill after downing someone which seems to be a skill because so many want this op ds to be removed so they must not be able to kill someone after downing them

>

> No, it is an issue, yes you become bag anyway, but in small scale fights. Against big zerg fights, roamers getting someone downed is completely inconsequential thus taking fun out of the gamemode where bad players get carried, they can down as many times as they want to as long as their server's numbers game on top of other servers.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about the above. This is the core of the downstate problem, it encourages this ridiculous minstrel meta of no one ever dying; the supports DON'T EVEN HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION. They'll just get you up with 3k+ armor and stability after you go down.

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > > > @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > > > > > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state

> > > > > > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's just going around in circles.

> > > > >

> > > > > Just give up. They are more skilled during no ds and we are more skilled during the 99 percent of the times there is no event

> > > >

> > > > The skilled tactic of letting your HP get to 0 and going to down state ;) show me more

> > >

> > > Oh you again. It doesn't matter 1 v 1 now does it? Only when you think you should be able to jump into a 1 v 3 and should get a kill right by skipping half the process. Obviously getting HP to zero and downed state was not the "skill" I was referring too. The skill of being able to secure kills the rest of the time with ds active is the skill. Because downed is not dead no matter how many times you think you won a fight because you downed someone. I obviously can down and finish the kill where you run off after downing someone thus I am more skilled

> >

> > Yes bro I'm sure you in your infinite wisdom of getting yourself killed for the bodyguards to pick you up, have much to share with us about skill. We're 'skipping half the process', while Anet lets you skip the walk back from spawn lol.

>

> I have no body guards. I play solo and if I follow zerg I don't join squad and never would I dl some discord and log into that to hear players but funny you should mention bodyguards.

> Like today I was doing daily's on my alt and ran to sos bl and that camp south of bay. Lo and behold there was a qq in the camp w 40 secs RI. I/m like oh a QQ alone that's rare but I'm not dumb af. I warclaw past right side and oh another QQ up on the archway and 2 more down below.

> Now I could have engaged the QQ and probably died to just 1 guy but what if I somehow was winning? Would he scream in discord or guild for help? Yeah bodyguards lol. You talk to me about bodyguards.

> No idea if you were there just funny to me.

There's more than 1 [QQ] guild smart one. I played completely solo today fighting 1v4s so ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

You always seem to deflect to my guild or the class I play it's hilarious lmao. Just shows you have no point other than Q____________Q

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > > > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state

> > > > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there.

> > > >

> > > > It's just going around in circles.

> > >

> > > Just give up. They are more skilled during no ds and we are more skilled during the 99 percent of the times there is no event

> >

> > The skilled tactic of letting your HP get to 0 and going to down state ;) show me more

>

> Oh you again. It doesn't matter 1 v 1 now does it? Only when you think you should be able to jump into a 1 v 3 and should get a kill right by skipping half the process. Obviously getting HP to zero and downed state was not the "skill" I was referring too. The skill of being able to secure kills the rest of the time with ds active is the skill. Because downed is not dead no matter how many times you think you won a fight because you downed someone. I obviously can down and finish the kill where you run off after downing someone thus I am more skilled

Yes bro I'm sure you in your infinite wisdom of getting yourself killed for the bodyguards to pick you up, have much to share with us about skill. We're 'skipping half the process', while Anet lets you skip the walk back from spawn lol.

No one was even talking about 1v1? Maybe the 3 in 1v3 just shouldn't go down LOL because if the 1 goes down its game over to him. Is the picture clear yet? This community is amazing. Only in GW2 do the outnumbering side need more of a handicap, according to most people here. Explains how the game got to this state, anyone serious about getting good has left.

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state

> > Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there.

> >

> > It's just going around in circles.

>

> Just give up. They are more skilled during no ds and we are more skilled during the 99 percent of the times there is no event

The skilled tactic of letting your HP get to 0 and going to down state ;) show me more

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Suraci.1642" said:

> > * If you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you wouldnt die in the first place and therefore no need of downed state

> Also if you are skilled (or dont have "bad builds") you would be capable of fully killing someone in downed state hence no need to be concerned about it being there.

>

> It's just going around in circles.

Having to jump extra hurdles while also being outnumbered is not fair lmao. The 'get good' does not apply, no matter how hard you want it to apply to the already disadvantaged side for some reason.

> @"Antioche.7034" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Antioche.7034" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > @"jsp.6912" said:

> > > > > i imagine this guy who thinks he is skilled because he played a glass canon build and os a guy during the no downstate event.

> > > >

> > > > He plays a warrior actually lmao I'm sure that doesn't change your mind at all though.

> > > >

> > > > Imagine defending a mechanic where you don't really die after you die ;)

> > > >

> > > > Also since February, specializing into glass cannon has had the worst return on investment of all time in GW2. No idea what you're complaining about.

> > >

> > > Imagine wanting downstate to be permanant, so that people are encouraged to play annoying and stupid glass-cannon builds or annoying and stupid bunker builds. Even if it's easy to counter or avoid it would still be incredibly stupid and boring.

> > >

> > > Maybe in WvW it has had the worst return on investment, and if that is the case, I see nothing wrong with it, aslong as it does not devolve into bunker meta. In sPvP though going full zerk has certainly had return on investment (See nades holo or reaper, Prev etc).

> >

> > 4/6 meta builds are Minstrel. It is too late to save the game from devolving into that, because when players go down their 3.5k armor buddies can pick them up and heal them to 100%, maybe even give full barrier and stealth. You say you dislike both high damage high risk builds and bunker builds, but you're clearly OK with letting one of those two run rampant.

> >

> > This is the WVW forums, save PVP problems for PVP. Did you figure maybe everyone is going full zerk because there's a lot less amulets to try these days? And because Marauder damage is garbage ever since February? We have to deal with this stat called TOUGHNESS in WVW. And these runes called DURABILITY. They're pretty annoying.

> >

> >

>

> So, basically you dislike bunkers, so you wish for no downstate, even though no downstate will lead to even more bunker builds ? Maybe for a week of no downstate most people don't bother to adapt, and you can surely farm all the people that are here to farm GoB because they jate WvW, but if you make no downstate permanant, what kind of builds do you think people will play ? Surely not stuff that can get oneshot by full zerker.

> Making no downstate permanant will only further the issue, IMO.

>

> Also I'm fine with high risks high rewards, aslong as it's really high risks high rewards and not low risks high rewards like that's often the case.

The current meta is necros using ANY DPS stat they want, with every other class running Minstrel to support them. Are you saying we'll have Minstrel necros too? Do you see why you're wrong LMAO. Go play a full zerk build and post those results I'd love to see it. Because BTW, being one shot goes BOTH ways for those builds, they get one shot as well. Hopefully you dont find any Dragonhunters or Sic Em beasts :D

> @"Antioche.7034" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"jsp.6912" said:

> > > i imagine this guy who thinks he is skilled because he played a glass canon build and os a guy during the no downstate event.

> >

> > He plays a warrior actually lmao I'm sure that doesn't change your mind at all though.

> >

> > Imagine defending a mechanic where you don't really die after you die ;)

> >

> > Also since February, specializing into glass cannon has had the worst return on investment of all time in GW2. No idea what you're complaining about.

>

> Imagine wanting downstate to be permanant, so that people are encouraged to play annoying and stupid glass-cannon builds or annoying and stupid bunker builds. Even if it's easy to counter or avoid it would still be incredibly stupid and boring.

>

> Maybe in WvW it has had the worst return on investment, and if that is the case, I see nothing wrong with it, aslong as it does not devolve into bunker meta. In sPvP though going full zerk has certainly had return on investment (See nades holo or reaper, Prev etc).

4/6 meta builds are Minstrel. It is too late to save the game from devolving into that, because when players go down their 3.5k armor buddies can pick them up and heal them to 100%, maybe even give full barrier and stealth. You say you dislike both high damage high risk builds and bunker builds, but you're clearly OK with letting one of those two run rampant.

This is the WVW forums, save PVP problems for PVP. Did you figure maybe everyone is going full zerk because there's a lot less amulets to try these days? And because Marauder damage is garbage ever since February? We have to deal with this stat called TOUGHNESS in WVW. And these runes called DURABILITY. They're pretty annoying.

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > > > > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > > > > There's already like a half dozen threads on this subject. Including all these arguments being shot down, repeatedly.

> > > > >

> > > > > The consensus I see the most is that no downstate actually carries bad builds because it favors quickly defeating players and not having to come up with any kind of strategy for dealing with them once they're downed. It made going "all in" alot less risky because there's less chance of failure since you need to do significantly less damage and use less tactics overall.

> > > > >

> > > > > Downstate is, among other things, part of a player's effective health and affects cooldown management.

> > > >

> > > > And yet, that isn't how it played out. The 30 constantly pushing 5-10 during normal playtimes, were clearly being carried by pure numbers. Because, during no downstate, they didn't push as deep, and when they did, died. We were able to, time and time again, slowly kill off the larger groups, because they didn't have the insta-res that they normally have. The skilled players didn't die as often, and the "we only have numbers" crowd, died, a lot. Even TC, the constantly outnumbered carebear server we are, played at, or above, 1.0 kdr all week. Where the largest server in our matchup, who normally has a 1.5 kdr or higher, stayed right at 1.0 also.

> > >

> > > Ya if you try and go oh 30 pugs pushed into our 10 man guild and some died sure. But a 30 man guild pushing into a 10 man guild wouldn't be the same results. You are confusing skill with being an organized guild group in discord all specced to support each other. Organization with or w/o ds will beat a bunch of pugs.

> >

> > Umm. Hi I'm on Maguuma. We most definitely are not an organized guild group in discord all specced to w key over pugs with max efficiency. Why do guilds do that by the way? Do you really need 3 support per party to run over people without a tag? Does it feel good? lol Anyway, no down state and mount stomp were both very good at helping pugs v a compd group. Now I have some sympathy with the whole, they got organized so they deserve to win mentality. But as the game goes on and population dwindles, more and more servers find themselves with less and less organized coverage. Which means that organized blobs are fighting random pugs more and more often. If you don't give those pugs tools to use and at least a chance to win with those tools and decent skill levels, the organized group ends up fighting no one, because they log. That isn't good for the game. What we often fail to consider is that the side currently losing _needs to have fun too or they won't play the game._ I personally don't care if we have 7 people with the outmanned buff against 30+ as long as I can punish the players who lag behind or don't dodge or think standing in the middle of their blob means they can watch youtube on their other monitor. But I'm going to log out when it's no fun at all. Which is more and more often in this meta, with the typical players mentality of blob blob blob, complain on the forums every time you don't dodge some damage and blobmanders whining in the dev discord to get the small group tools nerfed.

> >

> > Power is nerfed so badly now that no matter how experienced and generally skillful a bunch of randoms is, all they see time and time again is that when you punish a zergling for getting out of position, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop the 5 minstrel wearing gamers standing in kitten tons of aoe to rez them. And half the time it's a near instant rez and they're back up with full hp. Now call me weird, but I expect support to be supporting BEFORE the player goes down, not rescuing them after.

> > What we find on our server is that down state heavily favours the side with larger numbers. If one of us goes down, its not very often anyone can rez with 80 slobbering nerds rushing at them. No down state made the blobs think twice, made it possible to punish players for mistakes, made fights feel better paced, (I'm 45 this year and I get bored as heck with the slow pace of fights, I can't imagine how any of you young'uns don't fall asleep playing this game mode) AND made it quicker to get back to a fight if defeated.

> >

> >

>

> Again everything basically favors the side with more numbers not just ds.

If that's true, and it's true that downstate favors more numbers (duh how can you rez without more), why does the bigger side need another advantage?

:#

> @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > > By 'who are skilled' did he mean using a macro on a thief is now classed as 'skilled'? oops failed to down that player in .3 of a second I'd better reset the fight now poof into stealth and hope my other two thief brothers and the mes and engi manage to finish him off....

> >

> > I love how this thief QQ turned into random getting outnumbered QQ lol. Very coherent

>

> Thanks for adding to the debate. Not.

>

> If you thought for a moment you'd realise that the statement was relevant to downstate given that you can be in a party of any size and people can exploit broken mechanics to pick players off: it wasn't about being outnumbered at all.

>

> Because of the bad game design and bad balance, removing downstate just highlighted more of the many issues that exist in GW2 pvp and especially wvw. Such as stealth and one shot builds and being able to use a macro on no delay between skills char types, etc.

>

> It no wonder most of us left a while ago, maybe pop our head ingame every now and again and ghost on the forums as we died waiting for alliances to come out....

If you think a build type that maybe <5 people run on any given map at a time is the reason WVW is broken, well I just don't know what to say to you.

> @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> By 'who are skilled' did he mean using a macro on a thief is now classed as 'skilled'? oops failed to down that player in .3 of a second I'd better reset the fight now poof into stealth and hope my other two thief brothers and the mes and engi manage to finish him off....

I love how this thief QQ turned into random getting outnumbered QQ lol. Very coherent

> @"jsp.6912" said:

> i imagine this guy who thinks he is skilled because he played a glass canon build and os a guy during the no downstate event.

He plays a warrior actually lmao I'm sure that doesn't change your mind at all though.

Imagine defending a mechanic where you don't really die after you die ;)

Also since February, specializing into glass cannon has had the worst return on investment of all time in GW2. No idea what you're complaining about.

> @"Vortigern.1987" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> >

> > No it doesn't need to be addressed, because it has been fine for 8 years

>

> Pretty much like downstate, i guess. :)

Not the same at all lol? What nerf did down state get? I didn't know that being marked prevents down state

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> > > > > > > **Uncomfortable truth:** These threads filled with people saying "get good" and calling others "rallybots" are purported by people who are not good enough to convert downs to kills under the normal ruleset and wants things to be easier for themselves. The people who are better than them are not saying anything about it or are trying to steer the conversation toward the merit of the mechanics at hand with little success due to all the thumping and bleeting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Carry on B)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Makes so much sense bro, the people I downed should have a second chance. You're right, my skill was just so TERRIBLE I got his HP to 0, potentially in a 1vX.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Do you even read this stuff before posting? Why should an outnumbered group, ALREADY disadvantaged by the fact they are outnumbered, have to jump MORE hurdles like saving cleave CDs and stomp CDs that larger groups have free reign to use without worrying? VIVA LA BLOB where everyone can do open heart surgery to resurrect dead men.

> > > > >

> > > > > It really isn't a whole lotta skill to do what you do. Play teef port in down a dude(this wk kill) either stealth finish or start the finish port away still in finishing animation port back last milli second for finish. All while 7-8 dudes can't even hit you or kill you and you port away reset if that don't work. Then you got the rev friend who always has to swap off rev to the same thief build and do the same thing

> > > >

> > > > You're just wrong. For one stealth can cancel stomps, one of the most common builds today being support scrapper.

> > > >

> > > > If you think Shadowstep is an uncounterable stomp, you are mistaken. Shadowstep is 1200 range. Plenty of builds have 1200 range DPS bombs and CCs. CCs like Line of Warding, Slick Shoes, Spectral Ring and Unsteady Ground work through ports.

> > > >

> > > > I have to just avoid using my Shadowstep, WHILE OUTNUMBERED, down a guy, WHILE OUTNUMBERED, use my Shadowstep to stomp, pray I don't get CC'd or DPS'd to death, return to stomp and be in the middle of an enemy group without my most valuable CD because I had to throw it away on a stomp attempt. What about this scenario does not sound unfair???

> > >

> > > I didn't mean every situation. If 1 v 1 you can stealth stomp if vs group you do the lil 1200 pop away finish and I watched you do it a bunch of times one night so I doubt you have to pray for it to work even vs 8 or 9. Not many downed skills can touch 1200 rng when you ss stomp.

> > >

> > > The fact you can constantly engage a group of 5-10 w/e and have a bunch target you and get out alive 95 percent of the time and this week grab a kill with 8 others right next to the guy.

> > >

> > > You keep capping outnumbered like it matters with that build. When do you actually die? When do you get punished jumping into 5-10 nvm if it's only 1-3.

> > > You may be a skilled player but the that build is not skill because there's almost zero risk. What's you k/d with it. I bet 50 to 1 this week easy

> > >

> > > Well that time you had your buddy running same build after dying on rev like 3 times and some poor necro who dgaf died like 8 times to you too but that's after 14 went there and couldn't catch you and that's what I'm basing most this off plus other similar builds I see

> >

> > In what world do 8 players let a thief kill one guy lol. You act like it is impossible to help teammates without down state, when the meta is 4/6 minstrel supports. Maybe the supports should learn to use their kit better instead of relying on down state crutch?

> >

> > So your whole post is basically thief QQ? lmfao

>

> Ok, it is related to this week and this thread about removing ds perm and how builds like yours would be a problem. But ok 4/6 support if they were a gg but we all know QQ doesn't attack guild groups. It was cute you put QQ in your reply so I had to. I guess if you can't sneak into a 5-10 group and grab a kill this week I overestimated your skill. Again this was that build and this no ds thread and you calling downing a guy normally and him getting rezzed being an issue. Gl bro

What I understand is I killed you in WVW at some point. LOL

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > You mean I expect you to use things in the game? For the purpose they were intended? Why yes, yes I do.

>

> Those things are situational at best and clearly make very little difference for 95% of the stealth abuse discussed here so although they are valid they don't pertain to the crux of the problem. This needs to be addressed, period.

>

No it doesn't need to be addressed, because it has been fine for 8 years and is more nerfed than ever because of the things I have linked. LEARN TO PLAY. 6 classes have access to reveal. LEARN. TO. PLAY.

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> > > > > **Uncomfortable truth:** These threads filled with people saying "get good" and calling others "rallybots" are purported by people who are not good enough to convert downs to kills under the normal ruleset and wants things to be easier for themselves. The people who are better than them are not saying anything about it or are trying to steer the conversation toward the merit of the mechanics at hand with little success due to all the thumping and bleeting.

> > > > >

> > > > > Carry on B)

> > > >

> > > > Makes so much sense bro, the people I downed should have a second chance. You're right, my skill was just so TERRIBLE I got his HP to 0, potentially in a 1vX.

> > > >

> > > > Do you even read this stuff before posting? Why should an outnumbered group, ALREADY disadvantaged by the fact they are outnumbered, have to jump MORE hurdles like saving cleave CDs and stomp CDs that larger groups have free reign to use without worrying? VIVA LA BLOB where everyone can do open heart surgery to resurrect dead men.

> > >

> > > It really isn't a whole lotta skill to do what you do. Play teef port in down a dude(this wk kill) either stealth finish or start the finish port away still in finishing animation port back last milli second for finish. All while 7-8 dudes can't even hit you or kill you and you port away reset if that don't work. Then you got the rev friend who always has to swap off rev to the same thief build and do the same thing

> >

> > You're just wrong. For one stealth can cancel stomps, one of the most common builds today being support scrapper.

> >

> > If you think Shadowstep is an uncounterable stomp, you are mistaken. Shadowstep is 1200 range. Plenty of builds have 1200 range DPS bombs and CCs. CCs like Line of Warding, Slick Shoes, Spectral Ring and Unsteady Ground work through ports.

> >

> > I have to just avoid using my Shadowstep, WHILE OUTNUMBERED, down a guy, WHILE OUTNUMBERED, use my Shadowstep to stomp, pray I don't get CC'd or DPS'd to death, return to stomp and be in the middle of an enemy group without my most valuable CD because I had to throw it away on a stomp attempt. What about this scenario does not sound unfair???

>

> I didn't mean every situation. If 1 v 1 you can stealth stomp if vs group you do the lil 1200 pop away finish and I watched you do it a bunch of times one night so I doubt you have to pray for it to work even vs 8 or 9. Not many downed skills can touch 1200 rng when you ss stomp.

>

> The fact you can constantly engage a group of 5-10 w/e and have a bunch target you and get out alive 95 percent of the time and this week grab a kill with 8 others right next to the guy.

>

> You keep capping outnumbered like it matters with that build. When do you actually die? When do you get punished jumping into 5-10 nvm if it's only 1-3.

> You may be a skilled player but the that build is not skill because there's almost zero risk. What's you k/d with it. I bet 50 to 1 this week easy

>

> Well that time you had your buddy running same build after dying on rev like 3 times and some poor necro who dgaf died like 8 times to you too but that's after 14 went there and couldn't catch you and that's what I'm basing most this off plus other similar builds I see

In what world do 8 players let a thief kill one guy lol. You act like it is impossible to help teammates without down state, when the meta is 4/6 minstrel supports. Maybe the supports should learn to use their kit better instead of relying on down state crutch?

So your whole post is basically thief QQ? lmfao

> @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > Learn to play

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_Painter

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Target_Painter_Trap

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sentry

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Schematic:_Watchtower

>

> See a someone who stealths alot coming to u, dude can you wait..i need to quickly buy some target painter.

> If that fails.....dude there is a sentry up, can you follow me there and fight.

> Well if that fails also....then, dude can you wait abit, i just took this tower and need to upgrade it and put watchtower tactic. can you come fight me after that?

You mean I expect you to use things in the game? For the purpose they were intended? Why yes, yes I do.

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> > > **Uncomfortable truth:** These threads filled with people saying "get good" and calling others "rallybots" are purported by people who are not good enough to convert downs to kills under the normal ruleset and wants things to be easier for themselves. The people who are better than them are not saying anything about it or are trying to steer the conversation toward the merit of the mechanics at hand with little success due to all the thumping and bleeting.

> > >

> > > Carry on B)

> >

> > Makes so much sense bro, the people I downed should have a second chance. You're right, my skill was just so TERRIBLE I got his HP to 0, potentially in a 1vX.

> >

> > Do you even read this stuff before posting? Why should an outnumbered group, ALREADY disadvantaged by the fact they are outnumbered, have to jump MORE hurdles like saving cleave CDs and stomp CDs that larger groups have free reign to use without worrying? VIVA LA BLOB where everyone can do open heart surgery to resurrect dead men.

>

> It really isn't a whole lotta skill to do what you do. Play teef port in down a dude(this wk kill) either stealth finish or start the finish port away still in finishing animation port back last milli second for finish. All while 7-8 dudes can't even hit you or kill you and you port away reset if that don't work. Then you got the rev friend who always has to swap off rev to the same thief build and do the same thing

You're just wrong. For one stealth can cancel stomps, one of the most common builds today being support scrapper.

If you think Shadowstep is an uncounterable stomp, you are mistaken. Shadowstep is 1200 range. Plenty of builds have 1200 range DPS bombs and CCs. CCs like Line of Warding, Slick Shoes, Spectral Ring and Unsteady Ground work through ports.

I have to just avoid using my Shadowstep, WHILE OUTNUMBERED, down a guy, WHILE OUTNUMBERED, use my Shadowstep to stomp, pray I don't get CC'd or DPS'd to death, return to stomp and be in the middle of an enemy group without my most valuable CD because I had to throw it away on a stomp attempt. What about this scenario does not sound unfair???

> @"subversiontwo.7501" said:

> **Uncomfortable truth:** These threads filled with people saying "get good" and calling others "rallybots" are purported by people who are not good enough to convert downs to kills under the normal ruleset and wants things to be easier for themselves. The people who are better than them are not saying anything about it or are trying to steer the conversation toward the merit of the mechanics at hand with little success due to all the thumping and bleeting.

>

> Carry on B)

Makes so much sense bro, the people I downed should have a second chance. You're right, my skill was just so TERRIBLE I got his HP to 0, potentially in a 1vX.

Do you even read this stuff before posting? Why should an outnumbered group, ALREADY disadvantaged by the fact they are outnumbered, have to jump MORE hurdles like saving cleave CDs and stomp CDs that larger groups have free reign to use without worrying? VIVA LA BLOB where everyone can do open heart surgery to resurrect dead men.

> @"diomache.9246" said:

> Why do people always think they are smarter than the majority or even the devs? Hint: You are not that's why the downstate will stay.

Have you seen the balance patches? LOL this is a joke??? The devs hardly even play WvW and when they do they join a map blob, you are barking up the WRONG tree.

Agree, you should die when your HP goes to 0. I'm tired of fighting zombies getting free heart surgery after I've killed them.