apharma.3741

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

> > > >

> > > > This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

> > > >

> > > > This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

> > >

> > > Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

> >

> > Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

>

> That's the entire point of her skills; she's the energy management legend. You decide how much energy you want to dedicate to whatever boons you want, Draconic Echo is another thing entirely to deal with. She's the only legend that actually functions differently from others by only using upkeeps as primary costs, which is actually more in line with what an Espec is supposed to do. What needed to happen from day 1 was removing weapon swap and rebalancing the weapon skills like was originally intended to be which was to be useful across more builds, but they never did it.

I played rev with no weapon swap, it wasn't good, the only way to get around it would be for weapon skills to change based on legend used which would be a lot of work every time a new elite spec came which would be unmanageable long term for the dev team. Think about it, every class that has a single weapon has a way to change it's weapon skills or gets extra somewhere else which was missing from rev at it's core concept and couldn't be added without essentially copying another class.

"Energy management legend" pull the other one, it was supposed to be about that but it's ended up being the most energy efficient legend by far without needing to really think about energy management and this was **before** draconic echo was added. Glint needs a drastic energy cost change to bring it closer in line with core for energy management or it will forever be a first pick and the rest of the class and it's problems will remain covered by Glint.

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> Disagree with pretty much all of it. It's using a sledgehammer to fix a few loose nails.

>

> 1. Animations are still mostly reliable (turn on standard enemy models). Most of the problems come from: attacking from stealth, where you don't see half the animation, abilities under 0.75s cast time being not realistically avoidable, and quickness making animations faster than the 0.75s threshold. A few others are from glitched animations.

>

> 2. Stacking quickness solves nothing. You'll eventually get builds which find a way to stack it higher, which gets us back to the same spot we're in now. Why not just nerf the boon in PvP then - it's a lot easier and caps it. But still doesn't fix it. The problem with quickness is that it's too plentiful, especially when paired with attacks which cross the 0.75s realistically dodge-able threshold. Quickness needs to be removed where appropriate and replaced with something else. Reaper should not have permanent quickness in shroud for example.

>

> 3. The problem with condi is a handful of abilities which stack conditions too quickly. Burn guard has always been in that boat, but is also the easiest to remove from it. Fix the outliers, don't change the mechanic.

>

> 4. I kinda like the idea if reveal on cast, but it puts thieves at a huge disadvantage against guardians due to Aegis. The rest is unnecessary. Thieves survive more because of evades and teleports than stealth. Damage from stealth problems happen from certain specific combos.

>

> 5. No to stability on all stun breaks. Part of skill is using stun breaks well. It hampers CC-centric builds in small fights, but does nothing against heavy or targetted CC in large fights. The few abilities which have one 1s stack of stability on stun do so in order to allow the cast of the ability to finish because the stun break happens first.

>

> 6. I don't see a major problem with downstate. Rez abilities means giving up a utility slot. The traits have been toned down. This seems to be a "like it or hate it" mechanic, and adjusting numbers won't fix that.

>

> 7. This is a problem with a few specific skills and should be addressed that way.

>

> ------

>

> What I would look at globally is reverting Might and Vulnerability stacking changes which were made years ago. Instead of a single stack with longer duration, its many stacks with short duration. This allows burst builds to be very strong. Rev in particular can talk 20 vulnerability like it was nothing.

>

I was going to write something then you summed it up here nicely. To be honest stealth is more of a problem with long duration, reduce it down for the cases where it's too long and prevent it stacking and most problems with stealth will go away. Of course you'd need to keep an eye on mesmer and thief as they are balanced at their core around stealth but a few CD decreases here or +1s extra stealth there would sort it out.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

> >

> > This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

> >

> > This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

>

> Dear god no, shelve this terrible idea.

Glint basically has no energy management thought needed unless you want to sit on passive boons, bringing it in line with the rest of the class is something that's been needed since day 1 of HoT. Removing energy costs from weapon abilities is needed to properly balance rev energy costs.

One thing I'd like to see is energy cost removed from weapon abilities for rev. Then they can focus on the energy cost/upkeep costs for the utility skills with small cool downs to prevent back to back use.

This means you can start making Glint have costs and upkeep to properly manage without leaving a rev unable to do anything (they can still use weapon skills) for mismanaging the utility cool down. For example you might add a 25 energy cost to facet of light with a 3 energy upkeep until infuse light is used and in conjunction with the rest of the utilities having a cost and upkeep. This means you could make the stunbreak cost 30 energy and 3 upkeep so if you legend swap and hit facet of light you can't stunbreak for 1s and if you use another facet instead of the stunbreak you'll not have enough energy to stunbreak if you upkeep facet of light.

This means you won't be sitting on facets and be encouraged to use them, get some benefit then burn them and think more careful than use strength and element in glint, swap shiro and kite, swap glint and use strength and element again, heal/stunbreak as required without worry.

> @"UBcktieDL.5318" said:

> Rally is a really dumb mechanic in PvP gamemodes. A close teamfight can easily become completely onesided when half of one's team gets suddenly revived with half their healthbar. Downstate itself is fine, it adds something unique to GW2's pvp, sure they could rebalance some aspects, just remove that stupid rallying.

So they should add a 1 for 1 rally mechanic to PvP like it is in WvW?

This is probably one of the most helpful threads I've seen in a long time and has very good reasons for small and not overpowered changes to improve a class.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > First of all, it's too heavily timegated, the PvE counterpart is only weekly, and the WvW counterpart is avaliable 24/7/365(+1)

> >

>

> You forgot to mention that one of those 2 alternatives takes significantly longer (WvW), while the other does not allow to pip farm in bronze or silver rank while being afk.

>

> Now don't get me wrong, I am no fan of time gates. But comparing Pvp time gates to WvW or Pve is hardly a valuable argument. Each system has ups and downs.

They also forgot how memories of battle cost 22 times more than shards of glory

https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/70820-Shard-of-Glory

https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/71581-Memory-of-Battle

I even made a post about how ludicrously gated memories of battle are compared to the tickets but WvW players are more interested in selling them while afk farming them 10 hours a day.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/100499/memory-of-battle

Edit: A better idea would be to ask for the ability to convert shards of glory to memories of battle and vice versa. "Apharma you're crazy, that helps nothing" - yes it does, when you've reached the cap on one form of time gated currency you can grab the other while playing PvP at the same time. The gear rewards in PvP start to matter as you use them somewhere else and it helps cross pollinate the competitive game modes.

Remember ANet doesn't like people sitting there grinding the same thing over and over, this is a change you're more likely to get OP.

The idea of downstate is so that players, especially at the low end, actually have a chance when they get rushed by the enemy and spiked out. It also adds a choice to the tactics of the fight, rez or not, bleed or not and in the beginning of the game you had to actively cleave a downed person and poison them to prevent a rez in out numbered fights and you can use downstate to bait people into a position that's compromising.

Put simply it creates a wealth of dynamics and choices for players to plan and think about rather than "enemies die brr brr." _snow owl sounds_

> @"krokusfs.4982" said:

> i am not a pro player but i manage to kill almost every class except mesmers: they have huge amount of dmg/ they have stealth + copies of itself/

> the **only time i can kill a mesmer is when it is a bot and don't react if i shoot it from far.**

>

So basically you only kill them if they literally do nothing, bend over and say hit me big boi?

And how do you fair against thieves?

A lot of downstates have BS sides to them depending on what you're playing.

If you're running glass, thief, mesmer and necro can literally kill you while they are down.

If you don't have access to stab stomping an engy isn't easy and if timed right a warrior can delay a stomp to vengeance.

Ele, thief and ranger you have to stomp as they can easily get to the node or self rez if left.

Rev can take someone out of the game entirely with the knockback into a wall but otherwise are only annoying with the slow.

Everyone has a BS aspect to the downstate, closest to "fair" is guardian.

> @"Khalisto.5780" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > What kills me - OP

> > What takes a while before there's a winner - OK

> > What I kill while watching netflix in the other room - UP

> >

> > There's the TLDR for everyone.

>

> lol, what about that build the kills you quickly but it's bad against most builds

See line 1

What kills me - OP

What takes a while before there's a winner - OK

What I kill while watching netflix in the other room - UP

There's the TLDR for everyone.

Something a lot of people here don't seem to understand about the league mechanic, it's designed to create a normal distribution and the ranks are an overlay on top. This means a certain percentage roughly will always be "platinum" or higher, this is mostly static and even if a sudden spike in player skill/player base was to happen you're still not likely to see a major increase in the percentage (you will see an increase in raw number with pop increase) unless the upper and lower end of the normal distribution extend and the overlay is kept the same. This was demonstrated when the player base shrank leaving few to no legendary players in NA because the normal distribution had less extremes, causing an adjustment to the ranks that are the overlay in order to maintain the legendary and platinum ranks.

This means you can't simply magic up more people in platinum without getting more people into PvP.

It also means that if the player base as a whole increases in skill together for whatever reason (say a good tutorial system) this will also not have much of an effect on the numbers in platinum without an increase in raw numbers of players.

The problem requires more people to be playing (increasing match maker pool), playing distributed throughout the day not just prime and the skills of those players could do with being higher so as to not frustrate veteran players with platinum players who have no idea how to rotate.

@"bethekey.8314" It looks like you have "Effect LOD — Limit detail of particle effects" enabled which makes everything appear as red circles which would explain why it is invisible.

Generally increasing settings a little helps to see things at the cost of FPS, if you're on Windows 10 you can try using the DX12 plugin

to get more FPS and a more stable FPS linked here:

> @"aelska.4609" said:

> I thought this removal was just an intermediate step to give time to rework the crazy amount of impacted skills, but now I am not so sure ... it feels like theses changes are permanent. We have been promised fast impactful patches, but all we have are semi-hotfixes to some "a bit more broken skill" ... which does absolutely not change the overall feeling of the game: too much of everything, it is just a spamfest.

> With the slow response of Anet it will take years before seeing a healthy pvp mode if going in that direction, while planning to release an expansion meanwhile. Future won't be bright, bois!

The last balance patch was supposed to be more substantial but but patches make people nervous and the zoomers cry so no more big patch till they have finished complaining about +5s on a stupidly low cool down.

I believe the intention was to make CC do no damage then slowly add it back till it's in a healthy state. What removing the damage allowed everyone to see is that it's not just the damage of CC it's that there's simply too much CC vs stability.

You can add more stability back in but realistically only a few classes have ever had stability in decent amounts, guard, warrior, ranger and then rev later when it came. These classes already have stability they just rarely use it so not much buffing is really needed and giving stab to classes that were not balanced around having stab is very risky as shown by engineer.

The other option is to start increasing the cool downs of CC and their trade off so while you might get front loaded with CC the prevalence after the initial fight goes down and you have to think a little more about hitting with CC.

A combination of making the stab players do have a little more accessible and toning down CC would make the game a bit more fun than "I can't play for 10s"

A few options:

1. Use the in game block feature.

2. Have whispers in a different chat tab so you only see them when you want to.

3. Put the big girl pants on and actually ignore them, they stop whispering if you don't respond.

4. Report them for bad language or whatever it is.

> @"Allarius.5670" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > Word on the street is that there was meant to be another pretty hefty patch coming but the higher ups don't want a big patch making the zoomers cry about longer cool downs and having to think tactically.

> >

> > This would delay a planned patch as it has to be revised in scope and keep essential changes and have a staged roll out.

>

> Could you elaborate a bit more?

Not without getting into the who's and what's which would likely get deleted. Essentially the rumour is the last patch we had was supposed to be much bigger. Now what they were doing I've only heard bits and bats but I know condi thief, burn guard and bunker renegade are getting hit specifically soon tm.

Word on the street is that there was meant to be another pretty hefty patch coming but the higher ups don't want a big patch making the zoomers cry about longer cool downs and having to think tactically.

This would delay a planned patch as it has to be revised in scope and keep essential changes and have a staged roll out.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > I think the nearest you might get is torch on guardian.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Fire

> This has higher power coefficient than ranger gs2 btw

>

> Same goes for P/D 3 on thief, it has likr 1.6-1.7 coefficient and repeater has 1.5 coefficient.

>

> Hybrid OP.

Yeah I thought it would be torch, wasn't sure on repeater though. The condition component won't tick as high as power damage though.

> @"snoow.1694" said:

> Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed group condition removals on classes like Firebrand

Show me any single condition application skill that will do more damage in a single tick than as roughly equal power skill.

I think the nearest you might get is torch on guardian. What people don't factor in when they see 3 conditions ticking for 3-4k is that it's the result of multiple attacks usually so the equivalent power would be getting hit by 4-5 attacks, you'd have 0 health from the power attacks.

Some condition application does need toning down like burn guardian and torment should become a bit more rare, condi thief could do with being less front loaded etc but in general condition is actually pretty fine, it's a few outliers that are the issue which everyone abuses because the GW2 player base after 8 years cannot cleanse properly.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > It went down the hill when you accused me of "wild speculation" for stating: "They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't."

>

> Sorry, you may not like it, but it's a fact. You don't know which side(s) wasn't interested in renewing, or are privy to any of the negotiation between ArenaNet and ESL. For instance, why are you ruling out the fact that weekly ESL wasn't renewed because weekly ESL wasn't paying off? Still waiting.

Point me to the part in this sentence where I say who didn't want to renew:

"They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't." Now Drennon assumed it was ESL that didn't renew, I personally think differently however because that would be "wild speculation" I didn't say who only that it wasn't renewed because Pro League didn't pay off.

I stated that Pro League didn't pay off, this is a fact, it didn't.

As for Weekly ESLs they were stopped because Pro League was running, why they weren't started again would be "wild speculation" as I don't know and neither do you but it probably has a lot to do with how much Pro League didn't pay off.

However we do know that weekly ESLs were run from at least Mid October 2013 till Pro League start some time around November 2015, that's 2 years. You don't do that for 2 years if it's not worth it.

Edit: One of the early ESL weeklies from October 2013

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > Are you really about to disagree that Pro League didn't pay off for ESL and their advertising? Think very carefully about this Chaith, I know you like to disagree with me but you're getting close to shooting yourself in the foot.

>

> LMAO what the heck are you talking about. I was just asking as to how you knew for a fact why they cancelled weekly ESL, and therefore are convinced its possible to bring it back.. no answer on that. My point is not that pro league paid off big time, seriously where are you getting that from? This conversation quality just went down the drain

>

It went down the hill when you accused me of "wild speculation" for stating: "They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't."

Whatever **you** think the cause of it not paying off is up to you, I didn't give a cause and either did you but you decided to drag the quality of the conversation downhill.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > It's not that ESLs are my wish list, it's that I think it's a better idea than "let's throw more rewards at people at Platinum rank" which solves nothing or "let's give PvP players access to everything via PvP" as all that does is stop players branching out to different content. If you have a better and more well thought out idea I'd be all up for hearing it though.

>

> I disagree and think that throwing any bone to the match quality without causing a whole new slew of problems is something we should do, it can only have a positive impact on match quality, even if it's small in worst case. I personally would grind out a bunch of Black Lion weapon skins for example while on Covid19 leave.

>

> Any cosmetic incentives to play the game will fix population issues better than sitting here loyal to the delusion that ESL can come back!

>

> The reason why nobody, including myself, are throwing out more complicated and well thought out suggestions (as if I didn't think about this) is because they all carry the risk of flopping, backfiring hard, wasting huge developer resources, and don't have any more likelihood of succeeding. That's why I only suggested things that didn't have big risks backing it.

Throwing more rewards at something very rarely plays out long term. Adding a revenue stream like BL keys to a repeatable easy to grind out chest falls into the category of ill thought out suggestions. You said it yourself "I personally would grind out a bunch of Black Lion weapon skins for example while on Covid19 leave." but think nothing of it's impact on either gem sales or the gold economy.

Instead of repeating myself I'll just copy and paste from earlier:

Your idea misses the point because it's a blanket increase to rewards in platinum rank but the way you worded your problem it's the time period that's the issue not necessarily the rank as you're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

That's regardless of whether I agree or disagree with your statements.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't.

>

> You're putting your speculation forth like fact. What if they didn't renew for a multitude of other plausible reasons that don't go with your BRING BACK ESL narrative? lol

>

> Maybe like Pro League Bunker Mesmer season and the subsequent massive dislike bars on all the content? That yeeted GW2 ESL right off a cliff. I agree it had a lot of good moments.

>

> >The smaller monthly tournaments for gems played out really well and had as many viewers as pro league (the weekly matches) had towards the end for a fraction of the cost. It's these weekly/monthly ESLs that I'd like to see return, not the big Pro League.

>

> However, the Big Pro League had even more good moments. I don't know why your wishlist is so slanted towards ESLsports

>

Are you really about to disagree that Pro League didn't pay off for ESL and their advertising? Think very carefully about this Chaith, I know you like to disagree with me but you're getting close to shooting yourself in the foot. Pro League didn't pull in anywhere near the viewership they hoped for to satisfy advertiser spending after the first 2 weeks.

I would honestly say both had their ups and downs. I won't lie and say I don't remember the awfulness of 5 eles and then the refined version of 4 eles, 1 thief for the stealth mistform rez from weekly ESLs and all the other BS in weeklies but the difference is one cost substantially less to run.

It's not that ESLs are my wish list, it's that I think it's a better idea than "let's throw more rewards at people at Platinum rank" which solves nothing or "let's give PvP players access to everything via PvP" as all that does is stop players branching out to different content. If you have a better and more well thought out idea I'd be all up for hearing it though.

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > > > > You're saying it's not an issue during prime. An incentive to play a little longer outside "peak" time might help, it won't be a magic bullet but extending prime time a little if done right.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Not particularly, I think that even during prime time there are some wacky pulls of lower rated players into 1550-1850.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sure but there's not a lot that can be done about it when the population is low except making PvP fun and encouraging people to try it out and play it every now and then. ESLs would bring some more hype to PvP.

> > > > >

> > > > > Agreed, ESL is never coming back though and is totally unrealistic. You'll have to let go

> > > >

> > > > If you'd asked me a year ago if we'd ever get a proper rebalance of the game to remove a lot of the powercreep I'd have said no, I wouldn't count out ESLs entirely.

> > >

> > > ESL requires a fan base and viewers. GW2 does not pull viewers. A “successful” event for GW2 is now 1000 to 2000 viewers, which doesn’t even become a blip on the esports radar. It’s a bad investment for ESL and won’t happen.

> >

> > Weekly/monthly ESLs for GW2 didn't have a lot of viewers, can't remember the exact numbers but I'm pretty sure it was sub 1,000 and ESL kept it up for years. Not everything has to draw in 40k+ viewers and $100k prize pools to be a success.

>

> Viewership/population wasn’t enough for them to renew their contract then. Why would they do it now when even less people play or even care about the game?

They didn't renew because they were hoping the big GW2 Pro League tournaments would pay off, they didn't. The smaller monthly tournaments for gems played out really well and had as many viewers as pro league (the weekly matches) had towards the end for a fraction of the cost. It's these weekly/monthly ESLs that I'd like to see return, not the big Pro League.