mixxed.5862

> @"TheQuickFox.3826" said: > I see one major improvement tho. And that is that the player skill rating should be kept and applied **per profession**. For example: I always play Elementalist and I am silver-3 to gold-2 there. But when I would switch to anything else, I would be an absolute newbie and belong to the underside of the bronze ratings. But the game does not take that in consideration now, and I think it should. They did a poll on implementing a system like that a long time ago, but it required locking profession swapping once you enter the queue (otherwise it could easily be exploited). In the end it was voted against.

> @"Star.8401" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > It objectively wasn't. > > > > > > That's why all the really good PvP players quit ages ago, why the game has lost all entertainment value, why PvP population is seriously in jeopardy compared to how it used to thrive. > > Oh wait, you are so wrong. > Spvp started to go wild when HoT added elite specs and its been a downhill trend/train since then. Balance will never come again. There are too many factors, and this is why Spvp has lost its population growth and its in a downhill trend. > I don't think player numbers depend on balance at all. The more hype there is, the higher the numbers. Right now we're the few stuck with an 8 year old game, an MMO that hasn't seen an expansion in over 3 years, a PvP mode where eSports died 5 years ago etc. Of course it's slowly declining - until there's something new and fun like the next set of elite specializations. But there certainly isn't an exodus happening because you don't like the balance.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"mixxed.5862" said: > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > In case you were sleeping renegade might just got deleted. > > > > > > Also speed runes nerfed. > > > > > > You should be complaining that minion necro and herald escaped this. > > > > Yep, I think you're correct. > > > > And minionmanacer just got a small fix to the most obnoxious part of it. I don't think it was enough - but it's a start. So really, a pretty good balance patch overall. Although we're still waiting for a REAL balance update. Well, they're probably spending most of that time on trying to figure out new and innovative ways of making the new set of elite specs even more fundamentally broken than the last one ... So that'll be fun! > > > > Also, herald being broken is the state of the game for over 6 years now (although occasionally there's something even more broken!). Best to just accept it as is for our mental health's sake. For the moment I'm happy herald will be more broken than renegade, so we won't see as much of that kitten anymore. Yay!? > > Just noticed myself: There is a, well, let's call it a tweak, to power herald in the rune. So it is something, I guess. Ohh wow, you're right! They nerfed the rune! Them nerfing herald _slightly_, just imagine the possibilities - well, anything is possible now! No, no, that just can't be right ... it must have been an accident.

> @"Ryan.9387" said: > In case you were sleeping renegade might just got deleted. > > Also speed runes nerfed. > > You should be complaining that minion necro and herald escaped this. Yep, I think you're correct. And minionmanacer just got a small fix to the most obnoxious part of it. I don't think it was enough - but it's a start. So really, a pretty good balance patch overall. Although we're still waiting for a REAL balance update. Well, they're probably spending most of that time on trying to figure out new and innovative ways of making the new set of elite specs even more fundamentally broken than the last one ... So that'll be fun! Also, herald being broken is the state of the game for over 6 years now (although occasionally there's something even more broken!). Best to just accept it as is for our mental health's sake. For the moment I'm happy herald will be more broken than renegade, so we won't see as much of that shit anymore. Yay!?

> @"Liewec.2896" said: > what should the future balance direction be? buffs! > enough of the nerfs, noone gets excited when the bi-yearly balance patch comes around and literally EVERTYTHING has been nerfed. > (looking at you feb 2020...) > but a big balance patch that buffs up a ton of underpowered stuff? thats a great patch! > the best times in this game are theearly days after a big buffing patch when everyone is experimenting with weird builds That'd be great not gonna lie. But first: Moar nerfs! Btw I just edited the opening post because honestly re-reading it I didn't myself get what point I was trying to make.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"mixxed.5862" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"mixxed.5862" said: > > > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > > > > > I agree with your 3 major points, A, B, and slightly C. > > > > > Fun should take priority over balance. > > > > > Build diversity and experimentation should be encouraged. > > > > > I think balance changes are good for keeping things sorta fresh, but actual content updates would do more I think. Balance updates usually only reengage interest for about a week(if at all) then its off to some other game. Honestly I think balance patches should be more hands-off than hands-on, and when they do require some hands-on attention, being done in more creative ways that make PvP more enjoyable and don't just shut down a way to play. > > > > > > > > > > That being said, I don't think sustain needs or needed big nerfs. Aside from the occasional outlier extreme example, it was perfectly fine when damage was still in the game. > > > > > The real reason fights drag on forever now isn't because of bunkers have too much sustain, but because both types of damage took a pretty big dive. Toughness, Condi Cleanses, and Vitality all still function exactly the same in a world where damage and condi application is much lower. > > > > > You could nerf sustain for every class into the dirt, it's not going to change much if damage is still so low. > > > > > Or if you wanted to be even more unreasonable, you could remove even more sustainy amulets to cover up an inability to balance sustain in this low damage slogfest clown fiesta. > > > > > > > > > > I also agree on your ideas on fun design. > > > > > > > > > > Unless CMC's philosophy changes, I don't have the same faith. > > > > > The Feb25th patch was their passion project. > > > > > They were quoted saying: "Buffs in 2020 OMEGALUL" > > > > > Unless that changes to: "Buffs in 2021 FeelsGoodMan" then I am terrified. Please hold me MonkaS > > > > > > > > I entirely agree, balance patches are not enough to keep things fresh and exciting. We need new content and new elite specs, even if they always mess up a lot. > > > > > > > > The way I'm seeing the whole sustain vs damage debate that sparked from the february patch is probably a bit simplistic. > > > > 1) On the one side of the spectrum you have builds that 100 to 0 you in a second. > > > > 2) On the other side of the spectrum there are the builds that can handily resustain every burst they eat. > > > > Both are definitely unfun and need to be purged. > > > > > > > > > > The thing is that while builds *could* 100 to 0 you, they generally didnt, because you could stop them. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute, and thats a good number to aim for. The good burst was balanced out with good defense and reasonable sustain. > > > > > > > While we hardly see the former category of builds anymore (which is great), we see too much of the latter. Therefore mostly sustain needs a nerf, although buffing up the damage on some of the CC skills that they made an especially poor job of back in february seems like a good idea. > > > > > > We dont actually see *any* of the latter. Because there is no point at all. Why go full bunker if you can be unkillable while playing a glass cannon build? The problem is entirely that damage is too low, to the point where you need very little sustain to negate the damage. > > > > > > > Ideally we even find a good balance for the sidenode meta that way : Where every 1v1 on a side node finds a timely victor. > > > > > > We had that. It was called the pre-february patch meta. We should just return to it, rather than double down on the current spammer's delight. > > > > I think it doesn't matter what you call them. The beefy builds have too much sustain right now, they slow down the game by too much. Even if node scrapper has some decent AoE pressure, it's still very much a defense focused build. And even if shout spellbreaker is support first and foremost, it offers too much self-sustain. Nerf 'em! > > > > Those "beefy" builds are glass cannon builds. The damage just isnt there to even kill glass cannons. There isnt any reason to go for a proper bunker build, you just give up damage for nothing. > > > I remember that pre-february the only way to bunker a node was as a water weaver spaming evades. The damage and burst being put out constantly were on another level. I don't want to go back to that. I still want fights to last for a couple of seconds longer - I believe it's more skillful and fun. Just make the fast-paced and skillful team comps the most rewarding to play again, instead of the slow and sustain-heavy ones. > > Depends on how you define "bunker". If you mean "able to hold it without *ever* dying no matter what the enemy does", then sure. But thats not healthy in and of itself. Being able to hold a node for a minute though? That was the norm. *Every* sidenoder could do that. As I said, the average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. That was more skillful and fun. Now, fights dont end at all until outnumbered. You literally cant die, even if youre a glass cannon. That is boring. So boring that in that big tournament a while back, some players started synchronised dancing instead of 1v1ing because of how pointless it was. Yeah, that's exactly what I understand by bunker builds: Builds that manage to sustain a node indefinitely 1v1. In my opinion such builds will always be unhealthy for conquest. If they also offer decent node pressure to peel for themselves in a 1v2 versus e.g. a squishy thief they become a real problem. They stalemate the game. That's why kalla renegade recently was meta and scrapper is right now. The problem is that once scrapper gets nerfed the next build will rise on the very same premise. I'd suspect it'll be water weaver and druid - although they don't have the same amount of node pressure, so I hope they'll be a little more manageable when outnumbered. Either way, I believe we're stuck with bunker builds for a while. Even if we hope for a better side node meta already with more balanced builds such as strength spellbreaker, fire weaver, even core ranger and such. For those builds sustain is already close to where it should be, although they could do with a bit of a nerf as well. **-> Reduce sustain comprehensively.**

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"mixxed.5862" said: > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > > > I agree with your 3 major points, A, B, and slightly C. > > > Fun should take priority over balance. > > > Build diversity and experimentation should be encouraged. > > > I think balance changes are good for keeping things sorta fresh, but actual content updates would do more I think. Balance updates usually only reengage interest for about a week(if at all) then its off to some other game. Honestly I think balance patches should be more hands-off than hands-on, and when they do require some hands-on attention, being done in more creative ways that make PvP more enjoyable and don't just shut down a way to play. > > > > > > That being said, I don't think sustain needs or needed big nerfs. Aside from the occasional outlier extreme example, it was perfectly fine when damage was still in the game. > > > The real reason fights drag on forever now isn't because of bunkers have too much sustain, but because both types of damage took a pretty big dive. Toughness, Condi Cleanses, and Vitality all still function exactly the same in a world where damage and condi application is much lower. > > > You could nerf sustain for every class into the dirt, it's not going to change much if damage is still so low. > > > Or if you wanted to be even more unreasonable, you could remove even more sustainy amulets to cover up an inability to balance sustain in this low damage slogfest clown fiesta. > > > > > > I also agree on your ideas on fun design. > > > > > > Unless CMC's philosophy changes, I don't have the same faith. > > > The Feb25th patch was their passion project. > > > They were quoted saying: "Buffs in 2020 OMEGALUL" > > > Unless that changes to: "Buffs in 2021 FeelsGoodMan" then I am terrified. Please hold me MonkaS > > > > I entirely agree, balance patches are not enough to keep things fresh and exciting. We need new content and new elite specs, even if they always mess up a lot. > > > > The way I'm seeing the whole sustain vs damage debate that sparked from the february patch is probably a bit simplistic. > > 1) On the one side of the spectrum you have builds that 100 to 0 you in a second. > > 2) On the other side of the spectrum there are the builds that can handily resustain every burst they eat. > > Both are definitely unfun and need to be purged. > > > > The thing is that while builds *could* 100 to 0 you, they generally didnt, because you could stop them. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute, and thats a good number to aim for. The good burst was balanced out with good defense and reasonable sustain. > > > While we hardly see the former category of builds anymore (which is great), we see too much of the latter. Therefore mostly sustain needs a nerf, although buffing up the damage on some of the CC skills that they made an especially poor job of back in february seems like a good idea. > > We dont actually see *any* of the latter. Because there is no point at all. Why go full bunker if you can be unkillable while playing a glass cannon build? The problem is entirely that damage is too low, to the point where you need very little sustain to negate the damage. > > > Ideally we even find a good balance for the sidenode meta that way : Where every 1v1 on a side node finds a timely victor. > > We had that. It was called the pre-february patch meta. We should just return to it, rather than double down on the current spammer's delight. I think it doesn't matter what you call them. The beefy builds have too much sustain right now, they slow down the game by too much. Even if node scrapper has some decent AoE pressure, it's still very much a defense focused build. And even if shout spellbreaker is support first and foremost, it offers too much self-sustain. Nerf 'em! I remember that pre-february the only way to bunker a node was as a water weaver spaming evades. The damage and burst being put out constantly were on another level. I don't want to go back to that. I still want fights to last for a couple of seconds longer - I believe it's more skillful and fun. Just make the fast-paced and skillful team comps the most rewarding to play again, instead of the slow and sustain-heavy ones.

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said: > I agree with your 3 major points, A, B, and slightly C. > Fun should take priority over balance. > Build diversity and experimentation should be encouraged. > I think balance changes are good for keeping things sorta fresh, but actual content updates would do more I think. Balance updates usually only reengage interest for about a week(if at all) then its off to some other game. Honestly I think balance patches should be more hands-off than hands-on, and when they do require some hands-on attention, being done in more creative ways that make PvP more enjoyable and don't just shut down a way to play. > > That being said, I don't think sustain needs or needed big nerfs. Aside from the occasional outlier extreme example, it was perfectly fine when damage was still in the game. > The real reason fights drag on forever now isn't because of bunkers have too much sustain, but because both types of damage took a pretty big dive. Toughness, Condi Cleanses, and Vitality all still function exactly the same in a world where damage and condi application is much lower. > You could nerf sustain for every class into the dirt, it's not going to change much if damage is still so low. > Or if you wanted to be even more unreasonable, you could remove even more sustainy amulets to cover up an inability to balance sustain in this low damage slogfest clown fiesta. > > I also agree on your ideas on fun design. > > Unless CMC's philosophy changes, I don't have the same faith. > The Feb25th patch was their passion project. > They were quoted saying: "Buffs in 2020 OMEGALUL" > Unless that changes to: "Buffs in 2021 FeelsGoodMan" then I am terrified. Please hold me MonkaS I entirely agree, balance patches are not enough to keep things fresh and exciting. We need new content and new elite specs, even if they always mess up a lot. The way I'm seeing the whole sustain vs damage debate that sparked from the february patch is probably a bit simplistic. 1) On the one side of the spectrum you have builds that 100 to 0 you in a second. 2) On the other side of the spectrum there are the builds that can handily resustain every burst they eat. Both are definitely unfun and need to be purged. While we hardly see the former category of builds anymore (which is great), we see too much of the latter. Therefore mostly sustain needs a nerf, although buffing up the damage on some of the CC skills that they made an especially poor job of back in february seems like a good idea. Ideally we even find a good balance for the sidenode meta that way : Where every 1v1 on a side node finds a timely victor.