solemn.9670

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> >

> > Sorry, only engineer is allowed to be jack of all trades, not ele. Oh btw, they're also the master of all, so not just JACK OF ALL TRADES, master of none, but master of ALL.

>

> Don't you get tired of repeating that sentence over and over and over and over and over.....?

>

> Btw, it isn't really true. The **only** viable role for a PvE engineer in high end content is as a DPS. Which is a role that can get filled by **any** class, since they all have dps builds, btw.

>

> We are not competitive healers, since we provide nothing but raw healing in dedicated builds while other healing specs bring alot more utility. Not to mention that a healing scrapper/engineer has to completely give up their damage by camping med kit, while other healing specs still dish out damage.

>

> We are not viable boon supports, since the boons which the engineer can provide to a group like protection are not really needed, the boons which are really needed in that content (alacrity, quickness, might) either can't be given out to team members at all (alacrity, quickness) or we don't have enough stacks and uptime to compete with other boon supports (might).

>

> Elixirs provide buffs, that's their whole theme. I don't get why people are acting surprised that they provide more than 1 boon in this case.

Well said and all, but let's keep in mind none of this applies for WvW. Heal scrapper is still meta for WvW in my opinion. Boons/cleanses galore and the best multi-target healing uptime in the game as well as nice access to group super-speed and some modest stab/reflect uptime, a blast finisher, stealth, CC, pulsing cleanse/heal field from elixir gun... definitely the greatest healer still for WvW, imo.

And correct me if I'm wrong but DPS scrapper is still doing pretty well in WvW? I don't really know tbh.

Anyway I don't mean to derail this thread, just wanted to comment on this since we're discussing engi vs ele for some reason.

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> Idk I sorta like it for condi weaver in pvp. Going in and out of fire constantly just keeps triggering it. But I just don't get why fire is the only traitline they ever touch, and it's always some wonky kitten like this where there wasn't a need for a change but they decided they wanted newer stuff. I dig it because I like new stuff, but how about you go and use that creativity on stuff like arcane and earth ya turkeys.

Word

Removing arcdps fixed this for me.

Yep I can't open gw2, just the launcher/updater.

I am running d912pxy and arcdps.

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> weaver is dead in guilds and almost unwanted in squads. Revs do the same amount of damage, while pushing boons like mad

> Scrappers with their bombs also push out massive damage, while bringing stealth.

>

> Balanced?

> Scrapper is prefered over tempest by many, if not most because you have to be an excellent tempest to outcleanse a decent scrapper - and the scrapper brings stealth and and gyros.

>

> Balanced?

>

> Warrior: gunflame hits for 22k

>

> Balanced?

>

> Thief: Vault 11k per hit.

>

> Balanced?

>

> Thief: Attack from stealth and if you do not succeed, just retreat into stealth. No risk, massive reward.

>

> Balanced?

>

> Mirages can keep 3,4 people busy and just retreat whenever they want.

>

> Balanced?

>

> So ANET HATES eles, and loves engi, warrior, guard, mesmer and thieves.

>

> Balanced?

>

> This patch is another bad joke. I request ANET FINALLY adressing the real problem classes once and for all.

>

> Which means: either reduce rev damage a lot, or their boon output. Reduce damage out of stealth. Make fleeing into stealth not a thing (by, for example, reducing speed by 80% and make the thief/mesmer unable to port with shadowstep etc). Hit scrapper with two nerf hammers.

I'm all for some ele buffs but realtalk, anyone who says weaver doesn't out-perform every other build/class in raw DPS and down generation is either willfully ignorant or (sorry not sorry) bad at playing staff ele in zergs. I get shit every time I say this and I expect to get at least a couple people calling me bigshot, saying I'm egotistical, arrogant, poking fun at me for having the courage to stand up to falsehood, but nah, staff weaver outperforms everything else right now if done correctly. It's more difficult in serious GVG scenarios where not landing a meteor shower results in a 60% loss of dps, but, for most situations, staff weaver is still king if you're good with it.

> @"Khalisto.5780" said:

> The nerfs related to weavers were good, but the overall burning nerfs were unnecessary

Well, fire weaver was able to burn someone down with condi before they even had a reasonable chance to cleanse. Burn guard now does the exact same thing ... and it still isn't being addressed. >__>

this says it all

https://clips.twitch.tv/ObliqueSavageTubersPanicBasket

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> So this is what I understood from op and the vid:

> Weaver is very hard to play, as a result Weaver SHOULD win most if not all fights.

> Immob druid is a meme hence it should get nerfed to the ground

> If someone agrees with what we say, it's "insightful commenting". If someone disagrees, it's bad.

>

> Btw, weaver is as a meme as this druid, if not more. I personally see 10 weavers for each immob druid.

And how many of them were able to beat you and/or didn't just fight indefinitely with a sustain-heavy build that can't kill anything? Yes I know there are plenty of good eles in the game but actually go out into WvW and see how often you come across them for yourself.

What you're saying is like saying "being a mechanic is as much of a meme as working at mcdonalds because most people are unable to be a mechanic, but most people are able to work at mcdonalds" ... that doesn't hold up to scrutiny very well. If someone disagrees, you can understand why some might take issue..

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> If your build that relies on something as busted as pulsing immobilize becomes bad because that was nerfed, it means that was carrying it because it was too strong. Again ANYTHING else becoming powerful because this is nerfed is *irrelevant*, that's just a baseless defense of something in hopes to not have it nerfed, likely because 'Buff my class and nerf everything else.'

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> @"ThatOtherAlt.2984" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > @"ThatOtherAlt.2984" said:

> > > Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

> > >

> > > Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW.

> > > /Thread

> >

> > Lmao I can't make this kitten up if I tried

>

> Did you honestly think I'd bother to read past the title? :lol:

Well at least you're honest and have a sense of humour .. not like many of the above posters lol

> @"ThatOtherAlt.2984" said:

> Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

>

> Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW.

> /Thread

Lmao I can't make this shit up if I tried

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> Pulsing immobilize shouldn't be a thing, ever. Make it one long duration, not reapply after it's been cleansed.

Oh hey actual contribution to the thread. Thanks for your genuine input. Refreshing to see a reply that isn't about me personally.

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> There's plenty of builds that don't counter immob druid too well.

Imo, more than plenty, and too many. Hence this thread ..

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> This guy is a pvp God, y'all not getting it.

> Nobody should be beating him /thread

I don't understand why a few of you seem to be so obsessed over me. I never said or even slightly implied this. It's like pointing out that 2+2=4 and having people say "LOOK AT THIS GUY, HE'S A MATH GENIUS" ... no, I'm just stating facts ... get over yourself lol, nobody cares if you think I'm bad/good. This thread is not about ME. Please, stop the obsession, it's flattering but pointless and wasteful.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> You were outplayed then. And if you think trapper Druid is as OP as weaver, as you well know, show us your unedited videos. And if you aren’t that good on trapper Druid then it should be easy to see just how much immobilized carries you in 1vX, duels and against players like Cell.

Just defaults to "you were outplayed" and ignores everything I said.

I'll reply when you respond to my challenge, since your challenge is silly and mine isn't.

Seriously you guys are obsessed about videos. I don't record every time I fight a druid :'D go out into wvw and see for yourself, someone already posted a video showcasing how silly and unbalanced it is, I'm not wasting more time than I have to on this when the issue is willful ignorance.

I've already stated in this thread that I would benefit from learning the ins/outs of the druid immob build and that it's true that I lose vs them partially because I'm unfamiliar. After I stated this, everyone proceeded to drone on like a broken record about videos and skill and such ... we are discussing balance ... please stay on the subject and my lord, stop talking about me. I do not care what you think of me, we are discussing whether or not druid immobilization is balanced.

Yes? Explain why.

No? Explain why.

I do not care if you think I'm good/bad at the game. It's insane that I have to even say that, for ... the third time in this thread? Can you guys obsess over someone else? I do not care. Stay on the subject, say something relevant.

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> Obviously the matchmaking is fine and this is a l2p issue. I see you had 0 kills that game, have you tried killing your opponents? /s

Too many people in the PvP community actually think like this. Lol..

"You made one mistake, have you tried not being trash at the game? I have never made a single mistake ever in my life, which is why I am god"

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> Maybe you could make your own sb/s-t trapper druid and show us better results in wvw and spvp than your weaver? I’m sure many of us would be excited to see videos of you 1vXing and winning 7-8/10 duels.

>

> Edit- Also, make sure to use the same slot skills as the player you fought and be sure to not edit any videos.

This is the core problem in trying to have a dialogue with you. You do not understand. You think "weaver, in the right hands, is very good, therefore it's OP. Druid, in the wrong hands, is OP, therefore it's very good".

Your logic is backwards and you have now created a strawman to knock down and proclaim "ah! See! He won't do it because weaver is more OP", which isn't the case.

For someone who talks so much about skill level, you sure are unwilling to acknowledge that it plays a role in whether or not a build is balanced. Being able to faceroll keys and immob for days is unbalanced. Pressing every skill in the right order at the right time while analyzing what the opponent is doing and using movement/attunement changes accordingly, and just generally keeping track of a lot of things at once, is balanced because not everyone can do that.

Many others can, but judging by the way you're forming your arguments, I'd love to see this challenge reversed. Why don't you make your own weaver video and win 7/10 duels. Druid cannot do what you asked me to do with it, but weaver certainly can. Let's see how you fare.

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

> >

> > Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.

> > I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

>

> BRUH

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> @"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

>

>

> “I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.”

>

> “I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”

>

> “sustain very well and 1vX”

>

> “Shoutout to Cellofrag”

>

> “Elementalist is broken”

>

>

>

> Weaver is way more... “absurdly overpowered, end of story.” than Trapper Druid. So you let me know when a Trapper Druid can “1vX” and win “7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating.” better than your, according to “Cellofrag”, broken Weaver... But you already knew all that because according to you... “ Weaver still OP”.

>

>

>

The point is that the immob druid barely needs to try ... and if I try my very hardest/do literally everything I can, I barely have a chance.

Which one sounds more overpowered? The one that takes skill or the one that doesn't but wins anyway?

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

>you were also outplayed over the course of 3 minutes and would have killed the Ranger had it not been for being immobilized... And the real problem here is that you are unwilling to change or ask for advice. It’s not like there aren’t counters to it, you just refuse to accept and learn from the loss.

Tell me how not being able to do anything is being outplayed.

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > You didn't need to repeat yourself, you needed to read what I wrote. Immob Druid is the HARD COUNTER to your build. Simple. It's ranged with lots of soft CC and kiting and you are melee that relies on mobility. There are some match ups that you just cannot win no matter what (skill being equal) and this is one of them, hence HARD COUNTER.

>

> I'm citing Dunning-Kruger because of obvious reasons.

>

> Edit: I just watched the video. How can you possibly be complaining about that? You either ran into or shadowstepped onto Every. Single. Trap. Not to mention, there's not even that much immob going on at all in that long duel.

Oh yeah cause when I'm using mobility/evasive skills/you know, playing the game, I try to keep track of where invisible shit on the ground is. Like any normal person. Lol.

You're citing dunning-kruger because you'd rather be grandiloquent and condescending than acknowledge when a build is too powerful.

You keep citing how it's a hard counter to my build without acknowledging that the REASON why it is a hard counter is because IT IS OVERPOWERED.

Lol

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.

I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

I don't even like running the build I was using in that video most of the time these days, sword/dagger is too slow, I'm much happier in fresh air d/d but that has even less condi cleanse.

If none of the mainstream ele builds can fight immob druid fairly, it's not a hard counter, it's OP. A hard counter can be hard-countered if you're good at the game. An OP build cannot.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Ancient Seeds is annoying, but the way the OP descibes it, sounds like a big L2P issue.

>

> Counters:

> - stability

> - cleanse and dodge

> - teleport

> - destroy the root with a high damage melee skill

>

> The frequent reapplication is possible, because the trait has plenty of ways to deal with it. It's a cheese trait because it has its best effect on trailblazer gear which grants incredible tankyness and does even improve the immob duration. But it's far from being one of the worst examples of anets balancing fails.

>

> The high damage possible in wvw compared to pvp, which makes it easier to destroy the root, is the reason the cooldown is 10s in wvw and 20s in pvp.

-I have stability uptime

-I have cleanses and dodges

-I have shadowsteps

-I have enough melee dps to destroy the roots

I utilize all of these factors properly when fighting immob druid. It's just absurdly overpowered, end of story.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> @"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

>

> Here is a story for ya... There is a really good player in the game that struggled fighting Mesmer builds. So that person asked friends to load up their Mesmer builds so they could practice 1v1s. Over time that player got better at fighting Mesmers.

>

> Moral of the story is maybe next time chat with the person you lost to and practice, instead of all the other stuff.

>

I've actually done exactly that and found mesmers to be much easier ever since. However, back when condi mirage WAS OVERPOWERED, knowing how they did it wasn't as helpful. Because they were overpowered.

See how this works?

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> @"SoulSlavocracy.4902"

>

> There are some choices we have to deal with losses...

>

> 1- Post on the forums to ask the community for advice and tips.

>

> Or

>

> 2- Complain that something is overpowered just because you lost to it, while also highlighting the facts that you win most of the time, can 3 shot most builds, can run a dps build that also a ton of defenses...

>

> Choosing number 1 is a better option.

Man, are you a journalist because you sure love to cherry-pick/manipulate information that makes your bias seem correct instead of discuss relevant issues.

Lol yeah, I've been overusing this dead meme for months now, it's about time to put it to rest.

ele is fun

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > > > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > > > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > > > > Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

> > > > >

> > > > > Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the _incident_ I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

> > > >

> > > > D:

> > >

> > > Really tho man?

> > > You've not encountered this build once?

> > > Lol

> > >

> > > edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

> >

> > That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

> >

> > D:

>

> This is the fight in question we’ve been discussing in another thread...

>

> > @"holiboy.4637" said:

> > > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

> > >

> > > I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.

> > > This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

> > >

> > > How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

> > >

> > > -solemn

> >

> > Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

> >

> > [https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY)

> >

> > Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

Ty, this is actually the clip I was talking about earlier, from his perspective.

I go out of combat to switch to fire weaver with antitoxin rune, a build with some of the most cleanse uptime in the entire game, and as you can see I'm basically autoattacked to death. I'm not insulting the player, it's just - as he said himself - an op build.

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> >"...I actually win most of my matchups and that losing to immob druid played by average/below-average players is kind of annoying..."

> >

> > "...Are you done crying?..."

>

> I like the part where you assume they must be average/below-average because you lost. Maybe its you that is average and you've only been beating below average for 7/10 fights. Ever heard of Dunning-Kruger?

>

> Mate, you're the one crying here. Every build has a hard counter of some description and you found yours. You're fighting a ranged build who specialises in soft CC and kiting at the expense of damage and you're using a bursty melee build which relies on high mobility, what do you expect?

Just gonna quote myself because I'm getting tired of repeating myself to ppl just coming to this thread & not reading anything.

> @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> It's not that I want to be able to hard-counter every single build in the game, it's that I don't want one build to be able to stomp me down soo easily and with such little effort when I am over here playing the keyboard.

I just don't think a build that is near-impossible to fight, on a build that can fight almost anything, is balanced. Simping this hard for druid when you know immob is unbalanced seems silly. Yes I've heard of dunning-kruger, why are we discussing psychology, have you heard of Carl Jung? Do some soul searching, why are you obsessing over how good/bad I am at the game. I'm not interested in whether or not my abilities in a video game offend you, someone who cites dunning-kruger because of a balance disagreement in a video game is probably very sensitive to negative emotion regardless. I've never needed to win all the time, it's just annoying to lose to such a BS no-skill build that is nearly impossible to counter. Who is really opposing that statement?

> @"kiwituatara.6053" said:

> I think you should really try the tactics we've pointed out first.

>

> "I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds, and get clobbered by meta builds ran by anyone decent" thats pretty much everyone situation. Theres so much build diversity, if you want to win fights you gotta switch build sometimes and its so easy now with build templates. Heck, every time I can't beat a certain build I ask other players for tips, I ended up with 8 rangers with multiple templates for different situations. There's so many build options but you're so deadset on running the same build that frustrates you cuz theres one niche build out there that counters you.

My issue is that I am switching builds, putting on antitoxin rune/cleansing/generosity and still barely able to fight at all.

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

> >

> > Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

> >

> >

>

> There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the _incident_ I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

>

> D:

Really tho man?

You've not encountered this build once?

Lol

edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

> @"God.2708" said:

> This strikes me as the sort of situation taking earth line was born for. Diamond skin basically makes you immortal vs condi druids and earthen blessing can get tossed on to add insult to injury. The banality and terrible synergy with other lines earth has though makes this really unappealing, and difficult to fit into most builds, even as a temporary swap.

Well said! Agreed completely.

> @"kiwituatara.6053" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > @"kiwituatara.6053" said:

> > > Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

> > >

> > > If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

> > >

> > > I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

> >

> > I think the reason I find it so absurd is because I'm running a full melee build with a lot of mobility. Because I have so much mobility, it's basically not so different from a ranged build, so I don't generally struggle with rangers - or, I didn't, before patch. Since I can't move, I can't CC, attack their pet etc.. One of my cleanses is a weapon swap which on ele I am doing constantly, so there is no way to assure that I'll have the cleanse at the appropriate time, another is a dodge, which I cannot do while rooted/immobed, another is locked behind a 4-8 second attunement cooldown, and the other requires a critical hit which I cannot do without any ranged attacks and probably wouldn't suffice anyway because chances are it ends up transferring cripple/bleed instead.

> >

> > I could run fire weaver, which has much easier cleanse uptime -- and I have done this before -- and every time he would immob me to bait a cleanse, I'd be immobed again and before someone says "just dodge after cleansing" yes I've tried that, the next immob is only a few seconds away don't worry, you're GOING to be immobed again, that's the problem with this build. Too many GD immobs.

> >

> > And anyway, is anyone here seriously challenging the idea that being immobed/CC constantly while fighting off condi simultaneously is an unfun and unrewarding meta? Seriously, do people like this? Are we happy with this?

>

> I dunno about druids being meta, theres a reason people don't use druids in spvp. I think your build just gets countered by immob druids, probably good to change it up a bit. Its like if I run power melee soulbeast, I have very little chance against condi necros.

>

> I think if you have enough -incoming condition duration, you don't even need to use condi cleanse, you can just walk out of the roots cuz they tick 1s of immob every 1s? Antitoxin runes is -25%, some foods are -20%. Or just run diamond skin. Bring a focus to the fight for CCs. And you should really try focusing on pets, they die reallllly quickly, especially on druids since they have -20% stats as elite spec 'trade-offs"

Ya, good point but I don't want to be boxed into running all this anti-condi stuff when there are so many other options in the game. It's not that I want to be able to hard-counter every single build in the game, it's that I don't want one build to be able to stomp me down soo easily and with such little effort when I am over here playing the keyboard. One of the strengths of gw2 is it's build diversity. I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds, and get clobbered by meta builds ran by anyone decent. I.e. antitoxin vs most power builds (aside from clearing cripple, chill etc).. offers a half-advantage assuming your build is condi-heavy for damage (my air build isn't), and no advantage whatsoever if you're straight power.

I think you know this but I'm typing it for discussion's sake. My point in tl;dr: if I need to run antitoxin to have a fair chance vs it, it's OP.> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" Im just pointing out the facts. You should learn from losses and adjust, not ask the game to change for your 1v1 win rate in wvw.

Well we've found something to agree on.

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

>

> Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

Thank you, Buddha.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > > I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

> >

> > Feel free to replicate my results.

> > Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.

> > edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

>

> Using your own words...

>

> You brag that you have a 70%-80% win rate in 1v1. You brag that you don’t have any problems beating Ranger builds. You brag that you can 3 shot stuff. You brag that you can run a damage build that has “Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.”... aka great use of barrier and healing capabilities that we all know about... You brag about all this stuff but now you have a huge problem with immobilized bc you were outplayed and lost... That’s your problem, not with Druid.

Bragging? Only someone very insecure would consider that bragging .. I am so sorry to have offended your pride. No, fact of the matter is that most people I come across roaming in WvW are kind of on the noob side, and when I encounter a reasonably good player I either have a very satisfying 1v1 where I lose or win, doesn't matter to me, or I absolutely get my ass handed to me. Don't really care, had fun. But I win most of my matchups, because most of the players I fight are just average players.

I don't generally have issues fighting most ranger builds. That has remained true, I don't see the issue here. I just struggle with the immob builds because they're ridiculous.

I can 3-shot certain builds with a little bit of luck, if they're caught off guard or on cooldowns, and running glassy. MANY other builds in the game are better than my build for ganking, LOL.

I was outplayed by who exactly? Who has outplayed me on druid that you are referencing? I don't really care, I just want to know who it was because you KEEP going on and on and on and on about this druid who """outplayed""" me with excessive immobilizes. I'd love to see them do it on a build that is half as cheesy! And either way, do you think I care about one player beating me? Do you really think I have as much of an ego in this game as you do, that I would care? Keep clutching to your comments about me having barrier access while ranger has nearly the same utility-skill, rofl...

Man, you really have it out for me, I don't understand ... are you envious, do you feel threatened or something?

> There are ways to deal with Immobilized. Druid has been in existence for 5 years. Most have shed learning curves from the last e-specs. None of that matters to you because all you care about is winning and cannot accept losing... That’s clear to read from you, and I’m not the only one who sees that...

Sure I do, and good for you/them for "seeing" what I've been freely admitting this entire time. But have you asked me anything about this, by the way? Nah, cause then you wouldn't be able to just assume random nonsense / create strawman fallacies to kick down in order to prove some non-point :'D

> Don’t blame Druid, or Immobilized, just because the devs made Ele limited to 1 weapon or 1 set of weapons in combat. If you run a melee weapon then you are stuck to mostly melee attacks, so of course if you get immobilized it’s hard. But that’s not the design fault of Druid or Immobilized, that’s an Ele trade off for having double the amount of skills through attunements.

Great, good for that, excessive immob access is still an unbalanced gameplay mechanic.

> Stop blaming everyone else for your loss. And stop asking for nerfs just because you lost. And again, this game isn’t Duel Wars 2, it’s a team based game and you are complaining about 1v1 stuff in a mode primarily designed for Realm vs Realm combat.

Great, we all know that, good for that. Excessive immob access is still an unbalanced gameplay mechanic.

> Edit- And trapper Druid is an absolute joke outside of 1v1. It doesn’t do jack squat for any team based play. It’s essentially a junk build with a niche use. Immobilized is a joke too in team based play, and there are far better uses of skills and traits outside of 1v1.

Ty, the god of PvP, everyone.

Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points about my own competence (which no one came here to read about) because he was so incredibly offended by the fact that I actually win most of my matchups and that losing to immob druid played by average/below-average players is kind of annoying. We have now spent our time discussing completely irrelevant things, like how good/bad I am at the game because you just couldn't handle my (valid) comment. Thank you, great contribution to the thread!

Are you done crying? Please exit the thread if you just came here to troll.

edit: rofl, do you know this guy has me blocked in-game already? On both accounts. That's actually hilarious. Awwww! I'm sorry :'D

Pretty clear why he's giving me a hard time lmao, he's mad.

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> So basically you have two players running some kind of sustain build. The Weaver is more so a sustain build versus condi than a general sustain build.

>

> The condi Druid is struggling to get the Weaver down because the weaver has a lot of cleanses and barrier. The Weaver is struggling because the Druid is also using decent amounts of cleanse but also has stealth and mobility skills to avoid getting hit with many applications of condi.

>

> But, because the Weaver lacks stealth and took more hits over time compared to the Druid, the Druid wins the overall fight after an extended engagement. Without Ancient Seeds, the Druid wouldn’t have been able to apply enough conditions to overwhelm the Weaver and the fight would probably have stalemated out.

>

> Which sounds really painfully awful to me. Why should Ancient Seeds be nerfed? Mobility skills that cleanse immobilize or a single cleanse + dodge get you out of the seeds. There is counter play. You want your build to passively counter the seeds without having to play around it. Seeds aren’t a normal immobilize. If I have to fight this build I don’t think “I need to cleanse.” I think “I need to use mobility to get out of the seeds.” It’s like a pulsing field but tiny. It’s not “just dodge.” It’s “don’t stand in red circles.”

You can't just deconstruct everything down to the theoretical. I play weaver relatively aggressively and if a fight lasts over 2.5 minutes I'll usually just disengage because they're clearly running full sustain which **I do not**. Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.

& since when is binding roots a red circle/field that you can simply step out of.

You are required to clear the roots & clear the immob/wait it out, at which point you will be immobilized again and then given roots again.

But I should "just dodge" or "don't stand in red circles", I assume. Thx

-----------------------------------

Alright you know what, I'll test the druid build. I know it's obviously going to be easier to counter if I'm more familiar with it. It just struck me as being absurdly powerful, even for a build that I hadn't tried and thus didn't really understand. There are a few builds like that out there though, and they're all relatively intuitive in their counters -- yet immob druid is something different.

> @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

Feel free to replicate my results.

Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.

edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.