solemn.9670

@op Monk is my favourite, and I would estimate probably the best heals /s choice, but I am not 100% sure anymore as balance patches over the past half a year may have changed things here and there.

We never needed antitoxin runes, I'm so glad it's being nerfed, I won't need to tell scrappers/tempests to stop using it anymore. It was a waste of heal efficiency for the sake of being the highest number in the arc-cleanses window. If nobody uses antitoxin runes in a squad with 3 scrappers, the 3 scrappers will cleanse ALMOST ALL the conditions in a timely manner without antitoxin runes, while doing substantially more heals /s (and if they're not then you need to find better heal scrapper players). Antitoxin rune was a complete waste of a rune for so many healers, I am so glad I don't need to argue about it anymore, it was so frustrating seeing people making such a blatant mistake just because everyone else was doing it.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > The problem with monk is that we are back to the tempest being the better actual healer, unless they got nerfed in the meantime. While there is place for a couple scrappers for the stealth gyro and maybe bulwark bubble, I foresee them being relegated to niche rather than zerg healer.

>

> huh? how can tempests high cd's compete with med disperse field and medkit 1 spam?

Ya. Scrapper has F1 (massive heal), medkit 4 (massive heal), medkit 2 (medium burst heal), medkit 3 + blast, and elixir gun 5 aoe, plus medkit 1 spam which is just insane, plus condi into boon conversion + regen + any healing scrapper takes is returned in aoe to others. Tempest can burst heal several times as well, and has good passive regen if you're traited for it, as well as good might (possibly fury depending on traits) uptime as well. But it hardly compares to the raw healing output of scrapper.

> @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> Clones are easily identifyable in a short time. But the mesmer spawns several of them and goes in and out of stealth evey second, and doesn't have to sacrifice any burst potential to do so. Every other class has to choose between offense and defense, the mesmer doesn't. And if your solution to counter the clones is to waste your damaging abilities on them, well, I think you don't exactly grasp what a counter is supposed to be.

I don't feel like anyone has properly responded to/refuted this yet.

I agree.

Ya persisting flames is a good trait if you know that you will have 25 might stacks from your party, good call.

In your experience do you prefer fresh air to btth for staff dps in WvW? It wouldn't be as good at down generation but I can see it being a more consistent dps increase vs groups with heavy sustain. Making me think.

> @"Henrik.7560" said:

> Half zerk half marauder is optimal, can use full marauder until comfortable run fire air weaver, with the fire and air grandmaster traits being whichever you prefer.

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > Weaver is really good

> > Has been really good in almost all regards since it was released with PoF.

> And people who prefer Core Elementalist or DPS Tempest, outside of that stale Air one-trick gimmick, get left in the dust.

> I don't think Weaver and Stale Air are even half the class, more one third or maybe two fifths.

Before I say anything please know that I'm referring to the OP's post.

> why elementalists are so bad? why it's only class that have one less specs because you need to be attenued at the element to work? why i can't use staff like a real mage because it's so slow with high casts time and dmg is low?

Doesn't seem like any of that had anything to do with elite specs but still you raise a good point so I will address it anyway.

I agree that it would be nice if core ele and dps tempest could get a little more attention. I think DPS tempest is very possible with the right changes, I don't even think it would be that hard to implement - Tempest just needs easier access to +X%dmg uptime and a few more stacks of it.

Core ele with the right build is quite good right now for roaming/PvP as well. It's just difficult.

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> p.s. I explained that that argument was supposed to be absurd on purpose as explained in the note section of my last post before yours. However, I can understand if you missed it.

Sorry, thank you for being polite, I was only skimming this thread when I posted that. My mistake.

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> > @"ROMANG.1903" said:

> > There are abilities that allow the mesmer to swap position with an illusion. Skills that currently apply stealth could be replaced with this kind of mechanics?

> You sound like you don’t know anything about Mesmer clones and how the class even plays.

What am I missing here? Mesmer does have a skill that does this and it's very popular.

> @"Castiel.9048" said:

> > @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > Elementalists shouldn't be able to attune to so many different elements for a weapon. It makes their variety confusing beyond what is healthy for the game.

> >

> > Think about it. Everyone gets 5 skills per weapon with two weapons for 10 skills total. Elementalists get **4 DIFFERENT SETS OF 5 FOR 20 SKILLS!!!!!!**

> > This gives them twice as much variety as other classes. It makes them no more then Necros with even more confusing spells.

> >

> > This should be toned down to no more then 3 elements as it is still 50% more weapon variety then other classes.

> > Anything more is far too confusing and unhealthy for the game!

>

> Quality over quantity. You are also supporting the argument because Elementalists would love nothing more than to blindly press 1/F1 skills and be meta like so many builds today. Instead we have to be Mozart. Furthermore, we have no weapon swap to balance the quantity, which is debatable.

>

> But sadly, Elementalists have no reveal so your argument is weak.

> So yes, please remove stealth from Mesmers .

edit: see my response below. My bad.

---------------------------------------------------

Amen. A complete non-sequitur about elementalist that has nothing to do with the problems surrounding Mesmer class.

Not only that but a weak argument as well - ele is pretty hard, in general at least. It's easy to be mediocre at tho. So a lot of reasonably talented players end up wrongly assuming that they know what they're talking about after playing ele for a total of 200 hours or less. Some people are really terrible in one regard though - the ones who play for many, many hours, but still don't understand and want to enforce their wrong opinion on everyone else. I don't know if this is what it is at play here but it's something I like to remind people to keep in mind when assessing responses like these.

Back on subject.

Does mesmer need stealth to be removed?

I think mesmer needs less f****** clone builds. The clone generation (edit: overall/general) is fine but niche builds that can generate WAY TOO MANY are, well ... generating way too many

Every month we get one of these posts. It's ok, but honestly it does get old after awhile.

Weaver is really good

Has been really good in almost all regards since it was released with PoF.

People will always come here to complain because they made a mistake in-game and died for it. But it's the game's fault.

Or my favourite "they nerfed meteor shower/lava font" ---- both skills are still really good! They were OP before, now they're balanced

Antitoxin makes sense on scrapper because scrapper is actually converting to boons. It's useful on tempest and not "wrong". But when I command on scrapper I go full healing/monk rune because I know how/when to burst heal and having several burst heals can save your entire group. I apply the same philosophy to tempest. Because I can burst heal more than mostly everyone else, and do that several times because I know the tricks to the trade, I end up being more valuable than a bunch of cleanse bots who are mostly just cleansing condis with 3s durations because CONDI CLEANSE IS ALREADY REALLY GREAT without the aforementioned cleanse bots, assuming you have one or two scrappers. They don't even need to be in your party !! you will still get their cleanses because of how scrapper skills work --- firebrand is more party-based but occasionally off-party FB will cleanse you too. Overall a zerg of 30 with 2 scrappers and one FB in every party has no use for antitoxin rune tempest, you will just be over-cleansing condis that your scrapper would've got to in a few seconds anyway had you not been there. Focus on keeping your zerg alive and ACTUALLY WINNING.

edit: in fact it would be BETTER if you didn't cleanse so much because if you let the scrappers do it, they become boon bots. This is why I was ok with people arguing for antitoxin rune on scrapper - at least it makes more sense, although I still prefer not to. On tempest ... just not necessary. Waste of heals /s.

> @"steki.1478" said:

> http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJBIhdSfJUhJ2gJYgJwhJWMAsgAwCoH6GaPtxWiqQQ4HA-jlxDQBMb/BAcCAg3DA0D8RlgQU5HAV/JAwBw7dPAe/93f/93773f/93f/93f/93LFgfzsA-w

>

> Take feel the burn for even more cleanses.

This. Great build. Antitoxin works well, but note * that you don't need antitoxin and maxing out heals /s can be nice as well if you need to hard-carry a group with heals. Monk or Water rune will both do the trick. edit: but I'm not discrediting antitoxin, it's nice.

Also, have you tried running persisting flames instead of blinding ashes? As support you can stack over a minute of fury for your party (helps when no herald) just by quad-blasting fire fields i.e. ice spike > lava font > aftershock > wait ... > overload > lava font > earth 3 > wait ... > when fire is available, earth 2 > lava font > ice spike.

I'm about to type a very long-winded sentence and I'm sorry in advance but - This build has no power so even tho blinding opponents has strategic value, it is very little blind over long periods of time, especially because as you would only be tagging things for bags you'd have no reason to range pressure otherwise, unless just harassing the enemy. edit: but I've reflected on this briefly afterward and I can see some valuable use out of blinding opponents when no heals are needed. Still, blasting fury is nice man ... very nice ..

Also this is more of a personal choice so no gripes if you disagree here, but I like to run soothing water instead of the aura share, healing my party for over 400 a second from that trait + plus regen + regular heals is niiice and I think the heal /s you get from sharing overloads is overall less than having constant 400/s pumping out, but don't quote me on that.

Also, giving your party endurance and vigor is soooooo valuable to a zerg so please consider Gale Song. You alreaady have Eye of the Storm on utility (good choice) and overloading is a stunbreak + burning retreat, rebound and self-heals so I don't rly think you need the comfort of that passive trait.

Also a note to the op - dagger/warhorn is nice but staff is more raw heals so take that into consideration when choosing one

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"SoulSlavocracy.4902" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > - Marauder/berserker mix for ranged dps ele/weaver,

> > > - Minstrel for melee support tempest,

> > > - Minstrel/magi mix for mid range support tempest.

> > >

> > > I'd suggest checking Solemn on YouTube, he posts staff weaver videos fairly often.

> >

> > my heart <3

> >

> > agreed, marauder/berserker mix is probably your best bet. I usually run +2000 healthpool so that's pretty much full zerk + one marauder chest and one marauder legs. when you're ready to take off the training wheels you can decrease your healthpool, but going full glass (+0 healthpool) is challenging sometimes.

> >

> > this is my build:

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAYlFw8YIsI2JOcLbvNA-zVRYBRRtuYIKlRTFRFJitXgA2AvFrOjA-w

>

> You improved A LOT since the first thread you posted in here that I commented on and I generally like your memes so keep it up :+1:

Hehe appreciate it man, will do.

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> NEEERRRDDD

>

> **spoken in echo chamber**

:'D

> @"steki.1478" said:

> - Marauder/berserker mix for ranged dps ele/weaver,

> - Minstrel for melee support tempest,

> - Minstrel/magi mix for mid range support tempest.

>

> I'd suggest checking Solemn on YouTube, he posts staff weaver videos fairly often.

my heart <3

agreed, marauder/berserker mix is probably your best bet. I usually run +2000 healthpool so that's pretty much full zerk + one marauder chest and one marauder legs. when you're ready to take off the training wheels you can decrease your healthpool, but going full glass (+0 healthpool) is challenging sometimes.

this is my build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAYlFw8YIsI2JOcLbvNA-zVRYBRRtuYIKlRTFRFJitXgA2AvFrOjA-w

Please enjoy and good luck if you are learning.

To the more experienced weavers looking for new tricks - we may have some disagreements on build choices. I ask that you please respect my choices as I suit my build to my aggressive play-style and I don't experience a lot of the problems some people complain about on weaver/this build. I choose fire weaver because it is extremely aggressive but can also sustain very well and 1vX. If you are thinking "ah, yeah, but the problem is ____", please know that I am already aware of it. You must make sacrifices in the build, you only get to choose where/which ones to make.

Video

Main build:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAwilZwmYSsImJOSXfvfA-z1IY1opvMiNB6tAU7CEQvlqMjA-w

PvP build (I am more willing to listen to disagreements on this build ... but it works well enough in my experience so far)

https://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAwilZwmYSsImJOSXfvfA-z5YXGZmA9WASPA

Here is a Water/Arcane/Weaver build if you would rather play water weaver. Make sure you blast fire fields for might uptime. Pack rune is acceptable as well.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAwilZwmYSsImJm0XfvfA-zVRYVRTtuYIKlRpJQvFgKXgA6tUlZE-w

Notes:

Traits @ 7:00. Just in case it's not obvious, your utilities are: Healing signet, Weave Self (Elite), Glyph of Elemental Power, Primordial Stance, Twist of Fate. The reasons for running these skills are thankfully rather obvious but I apologize for not talking about them all in the video. NOTE THAT YOUR DODGE SKILLS (EVASIVE ARCANA TRAIT) ARE ALL UNIQUE COOLDOWNS, THIS IS CRUCIAL ! YOU CAN WATER-DODGE FOR A HEAL, THEN FIRE-DODGE FOR A DPS BURST. Caps because I should've put that in the video :( Oh also use Glyph for your first stunbreak, and also remember that you can gauge the enemy's skill use/potential burst as you're stunned/CC'd so that you can assess "do I really even need to use a stunbreak? could I just wait this out, and then heal very quickly?" this will depend on how much damage they do while you are stunned/CC'd. If they hit you for a lot during that time, you must stunbreak quickly and immediately heal, assuming you're not dead. If not, wait out the stun then heal, then attack! Shoutout to Cellofrag @ 15:33. Potentially crucial note/information @ 16:58 about how to begin an engagement/fight.

Eh, this skill is kinda trash because of the long cast time but maybe it was https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> Yepp, I could imagine it serving more of a +1 role or even team fighting role? Fire and earth skills have big AoEs and with the added mobility it might work.

That's generally how I play in ranked yeah - hold side nodes because it's a very good duelist build and then run into center and roleplay as a scourge for a bit.

Anyway cheers man you were very respectful and kept a good conversation going.

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> Focus has 3 from earth 4 but you're forgetting fire aura from fire 5. That's 6! One more than dagger! Plus, if you're a fire Weaver, you attune to fire once to get the aura, then double attune to get a second aura. That grants you an additional cleanse. Thing is, you can't benefit from that on dagger offhand because you can't transmute.

>

> I literally stopped reading after point one

Ok so you have an extra condi cleanse, and you can attune to fire to get the same aura that I get using dagger. You can't transmute the fire aura you get from attuning to fire regardless of your offhand (unless there is some mechanic at play that transmutes both when you use focus fire 5, but I don't think so...)

But I literally stopped seeing you as someone with any credibility to their word as soon as you admitted~~ you're not even reading what I'm saying.~~ that you are refusing to think critically or go beyond your pride.

You ignored nearly everything I said in my last post and then tried to do a quick "gotcha! hahAQhAha I'm Not EVEN reading what You"rRe Saying because I'm right about everything all the time!"

well I am defeated

good job

I think I've had enough for one thread

signing off now, take care. No hard feelings but seriously wth man lmao I hope you think about what you said.

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> Can u imagine getting killed by a weaver guys, the slowest class in this meta, even necro is more mobile than fire weaver rofl

?????

Is this a troll? Weaver with sw/d has a shadowstep, 1200 range mobility skill, lightning flash, fiery greatsword with 2 long range mobility skills, plus super speed via ToF. Even if you're running a straight fire weaver build you will still always have air 2/air 4, plus the use of fire 2 which is faster than combat running + twist of fate superspeed + perma swiftness uptime.

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> Personnaly, I just run in circle, I don't even try to kill them unless i need the cap or to be somewhere else. Weaver has a hard time damaging moving targets.

That's a reasonable thing to do but think about it like a WW2 dogfight. All the weaver has to do is turn within your radius. Most of them (well, most players of any class*) don't have very good movement skill though so this can work vs inexperienced.

I see this kind of reaction a lot from inexperienced PvP players. I make a point to meme these interactions as much as possible in my videos because it's too funny.

let me just say it very clearly

# IF YOU FACEROLL YOUR ENTIRE BURST/BOMB WITHIN THE FIRST 6 SECONDS OF COMBAT, I'M GOING TO EVADE EVERYTHING - YOU WILL LOOK SILLY

## LITERALLY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS BAIT MY COOLDOWNS. AVOID STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO ME LIKE A LOST CHILD WHILE I STACK BURNS. Fire Weaver is very squishy-- it just has a good sustain combo which makes people think it's '''''''tanky'''''' despite being quite vulnerable to experienced players

Ele gets buffed to be on-par with the other cheese builds in this game and suddenly it's an issue that I can do what your class/build has been able to do for years.

Stay classy - directed at nobody in particular, just those who insist --- after knowing all this ---- that it is somehow unacceptable.

edit: changed a little grammar to reflect a softer, less edgy tone than originally - my bad - I forget to be courteous sometimes and will work on it.

> @"Dahir.4158" said:

> You need to relax

I've been relaxed. What is the issue?

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > @"solemn.9608" said:

> > Is a water field blast via earth dodge really superior to dodging in water for cleanse+2k heal followed by attuning to earth and blasting / using water 4/5 after?

> >

> > > @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > > Lots of rather useless rotations and wasted fields, but overall not bad.

> > >

> > > Check stab/block/invulnerable on enemies more often and blind on yourself before doing hard CC or Firegrab, other things are minor issues/tricks ^.^

> > > And I like the fact that youre playing mender, not fireweaver /puke

> > >

> > > /DOKI

> >

> > Asking sincerely - what is so wrong with fire weaver? It’s very squishy if you know how to bait evasive / healing cooldowns. Anyone who plays weaver should know how to counter fire weaver on a different class, no? I can’t see what is to complain about when it’s even more difficult to survive on than running water, and consequently provides more reward through better burst potential and hybrid damage. It also damages primarily through burn stacks - one single condi stack that is relatively easy to cleanse.

> >

>

> Did I ever say that theres something wrong with fireweaver? No, its fine build, vs some MU its far better than mender/avatar/whatever power stat combo youre playing. What I said is that i puke at fireweaver, not the build itself, but overall condi-based builds. I just dont like them, prefer power based, I admit that Ive played chrono bunker which main damage were condis back in the HoT (and reached top XX leg divisions, but thats another story). Except for that, all other builds that came and were condi-based I find pukish. Nothing wrong with ppl playing them (at least i hope), i just prefer and like those who use power-based builds (its not a crime yet, isnt it?)

> Dont get me wrong, I play fireweaver sometimes too and as I said it has many good MU and great damage potential with burning stacks if played around them and stacked properly.

> Oh and dont be so loud about difficulty, youre basically trading sustain for damage. If you can stand your ground playing fire despite no water trait, do it. If you can find spots where you can burst enemy and properly use them despite not so good condi burst potential, play mender. Or play w/e you just like, its up to you.

>

> Earth dodge is not superior, its another option. When water dodge is on CD, you need to cripple enemy, blast for more might stacks, need in rotation Lava Skin for offensive or defensive issues etc.

I think you worded that a little aggressively just to say "do whatever you want man it's cool" but ok, cheers dude. At least you get it.

(this is solemn.9608 - main)

> @"Dahir.4158" said:

> Why are you mad at me? Calm down boy

Boy - erm, close but no cigar. Razor should be able to give you a grammar lesson on pronouns sometime, sound good?

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> So you ARE in TLR :D Good to have you

Lol I must have opened my guild panel on my alt at some point in the video - thanks but I haven't been in a real raid with TLR in almost 2 years heh. Best wishes to you guys tho!

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> Are you okai all ?

Yeah sorry - hope everyone brought popcorn - I don't generally take kindly to a blatant insult.

@"Razor.6392"

@"Dahir.4158"

Lol

Still not hearing an argument dude. Guess you've forfeit.

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> > @"solemn.9608" said:

> > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > Holy kitten you are mashing the keys... hard pass.

> > What is this comment even supposed to suggest?

> >

> > “You are using the appropriate skill at the exact time it is needed and compensating for lag/ensuring every hit registers by mashing the odd button in a logical sequence, NOOOOOOOOOB!”

> >

> > Have you just never played this game before or what exactly is the issue here ? Hard pass on taking you seriously.

>

> Hahahahahahahaha

edit // this whole reply is just seething with salt - my b, but you kinda had it coming. gonna leave it unchanged in the interest of honesty.

Well, I'm convinced. Yeah but no really, not hearing an argument there. Try again? Maybe pick at the contrast/colour settings I used, since we're in such blatantly contrarian territory already? Have you never had a skill not go off on you, man? I really have to wonder if you're playing the same game or if you're just naturally so disagreeable in personality that you can't give up a chance to put someone else down in an attempt to raise yourself out of your own depths -- over such a moot point, as well. At the end of the day I don't expect that someone of such character would even be able to keep up, so why does it matter?

Furthermore why should it matter - in raids I don't double-press anything, when playing staff the only things I double-press are BR/MS because those suffer from the same issues - if you've never had a meteor shower just not proc at all, again, you're not playing the same game. I'm only superficially amused by this tbh, if you think about the psychological motives behind your behaviour it's not pretty - you're making a weak argument based off your own insecurities. You felt like you needed to assert your dominance somehow and searched for any reason you could find - I have to wonder how many times you've done this and how much respect you actually garner from this community, with an attitude like this.

Nice forum signature btw lol. You "never said you're the best" yet if you thought about it for a moment you'd realize that "but I believe I'm better than you" is an unconditional statement aka you just implied you're better than everyone. Lol. To be so arrogant.

> @"Dahir.4158" said:

> Lol

Agreed. If you want to be associated with him, by all means, make it clear so we can all see it.

> @"dS T nE.6823" said:

> > @"Blood Lord.5687" said:

> > Tbh, staff ele is quite strong in the right hands.

>

> just go play hammer herald and we'll be doing roughly the same damage(assuming we actually hit the majority of our meteors) while giving might, swiftness, fury etc and dmg mitigation through jalis elite.

> even if they revert the old meteor shower nerf, I doubt any serious wvw guild would take an ele to do dps when scourges and heralds can do so much more. ele design is just mediocre in every aspect at this point. can't tank cuz squishy, can't support because fb is better, can't dps cuz TOO SQUISHY.

??????????????????????

Guilds that run one or two competent weavers benefit greatly from it

I've been on enough servers and ran with enough fight guilds to know that heralds can't outdps me consistently. Haven't even found one that can. I also see my bomb (which is not **just** meteor) generating a lot of the downs. One or two staff eles is very nice to have if they know what they're doing.

`https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uLht2Q2VLo`

> @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> in sPVP I like the sword-focus build more less mobility and power dmg but transmute fire aura is very strong with Sunspot and the defensive skills really help.

>

> In WvW ... the focus isn't really viable on a open field fight

I like the projectile hate/invuln/ranged CC of offhand focus - I've used focus a lot while running sc/f fresh air, and it's good with sword, but I rely on every single offhand dagger skill as part of my rotation(s). It feels more diverse in it's uses. I couldn't give up the mobility, evade while CCing from air 5, insane cleanse + heals from water and very good damage (10k fire grab anyone?) from fire dagger skills, plus fire 4 burns for a lot.

I wouldn't argue against others using focus offhand with this build, but I don't think I'll ever prefer it. You can see the weaver I dueled at 4:46 was using sw/f and he kinda struggled

**I am in no way suggesting that fire weaver will win vs every class - it can't, if player skill is equal (or if weaver is less).** This is only a demonstration for anyone thinking about trying it out - to see roughly how you can go about countering some builds.

And actually there is no duel vs Necro in this video - there was but I took it out before rendering because it was really boring, you're welcome. He was a good necro, too, but really boring fight with a lot of kiting from both of us ... necros go down just like the rest though.

Some swearing in the video

Build:

`https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvFAQJAsYncMAFNgF5C%2B4CM5iFBAr4N0GSD3v6a9tOIAMBeAA-j1hAABop8zU1fgUJ45PAAAOBAZv%2Fwi6JCAgA4m38m38m3srbzbezbezbezbezbWKgtWGB-w&event=video_description&v=vE4Oo0CBG64&redir_token=eZb2mNq-7lyfuruGHHwC7guQkaN8MTU2NDA4NjYzMUAxNTY0MDAwMjMx`