Shao.7236

Utility on Core Elementalist has cooldowns that are way too high. Armor of Earth and Mist Form CD's should be the same as PvE, this'll make them considerably competitive to Twist of Fate or Signet of Air. There's almost no ways to reliably keep people in the AoE's which is why Immobilize duration on Arcane skills should be increased to 2 seconds. Also have Arcane Blast get it's 3rd charge back since the nerf has balanced out how it could be pretty good in the past. Dagger off-hand Water skills could really use a buff, Frost Aura and Cleansing Wave to be both 25 CDs while the conditions removed be 3 like Magnetic Wave, Focus is just too good otherwise.

Conquest works because having to play with an objective puts to use more aspects of the game than any sort of TDM. Having a capture the flag would be terrible and I don't want to imagine how awful everything else would be. Conquest is just the best design for GW2, Stronghold can work but people prefer Conquest.

Damage is relatively still higher than during the base game as most claim, if that's the case. Changing the health pools to a lower state because we nerfed a bunch of things doesn't make any sense.

@"Daishi.6027" I've seen all of this already, all of it still hold true to this day, they've done what they said would, in fact we got skill split years later after wasting so much time trying to balance PvE with everything else, but that seems to be forgotten already, ungrateful everyone is for the idea to balance PvP in it's own ecosystem. Like said, no good change to make anyone happy here. :-) You realize players nor public haven't cared in the slightest as the decline would continue even after ESL. GW2 in it's current form is something that people only do what they want, there's no incentive or dedication to be had when what you play is F2P at the base with a B2P scheme of skins you can buy via Gold in game, the xpac are no more than a weekly grocery that you'll forget you had days later. Obviously as a consumer you wouldn't see how much it takes to keep peoples attention against the other behemoths. Anet saw it and they dropped the ball for that reason as well as their own players not really giving a crap, which if you want to blame Anet for going B2P instead of P2P, you can. What "you" should have cared about that Anet should be blamed for is the lack of advertising. That is all period, to hear people say "lul gemstore patch, no pvp, anet sux" is like whining at someone for having a job at the restaurant you're eating the food of and decide to have something you don't like while you have everything else they "can" offer available to you. It's own their terms to decide what works and what doesn't because they are the ones with the data, if you ain't happy you're not forced to stay, it ain't spitting in your face, they do what they have to do. Telling them recommendations are welcomed but they have to be within the realm of possibility of the company itself, not competitors to compare them to. Stronghold being a failure is no surprise, if you pay close to attention that they were planning to do with it, you can almost, just almost see the reason why it existed in the first place. To think that adding content to PvP when people are not happy with the base game alone, you call that a good investment? It's fashion wars you're talking about, you're not giving them money and buying EoD will be nothing in the bigger numbers even if you'd count all the PvP players from the very beginning of the game, PvE is where it's at and is where it'll always be even in a perfected version of PvP with everything that you'd wish for. Get the point yet? Probably not, afterall. The game is in it's "worst" state. I can't say that without laughing, people think this is the worst GW2 PvP has ever been. It's comical. I've been happy with whatever Anet gave me but I wasn't without criticism, right now it's clear that you have fantasies bigger than what you could pay their own dev team to do, they would have done it otherwise. Let's not be delusional about the situation they are in, at what sounds to be anything but your own gain when everything isn't as bad as they seem but you think it is, I shouldn't have to tell you any of this. On the scale of everything else, games like LoL, Smite or even Dota 2, whatever unrelated fighting game or shooter don't have the same challenge that Anet has to go through, they are far far far from it. So people can compare them as much as they like, but it factually still is a biased comparison regardless and to say otherwise is "delusional" to expect GW2 to be comparable. WoW, BDO or FF are the only valid comparison and neither of all are having a good time in the PvP side of things which says something. Finally, the game was power crept to the max and nobody acknowledges it, bet the nerfs are only starting to match it which is good not matter how hard it's denied.

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Wow, it's worst than I remember. > > > > my first wake up moment was when i got hit for a 14k (in that ballpark) ranger axe 3. pvp was a giant meme back then and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. > > And people still think that this kind of damage was good for healthy pvp... You can't make this up, but it's w/e. Games more fun if everything dies randomly left and right for everyone or nobody ever dies because they can evade a thousand time with single digit options available. That's build diversity in a nutshell. Be gone if we adjust stats to make decisions matter more or or even teamwork, what could we ever do? Yeah surely, surely it would be better to go back. Finding a good middle ground isn't balance, that's just horrible decision making that creates the worst state the game has ever been in.

> @"Daishi.6027" said: > Actually this is very important for the perspective of how the game has evolved until this point. Compounding factors are not irrelevant simply because you say so. No, it's irrelevant. The game hasn't evolved in the slightest for any important goals whatsoever. > The community wishes not being met is how we got to where we are. When Hambow and Petting Zoo were dominating; balance only needed to be tweaked regarding those (and maybe Engie), and we'd have had half a year of solid PvP. Instead A-net shakes the entire thing up and does not correct for errors. These aren't the types of thing that are "senseless and without foundation". If A-net wanted to have a shake up in 6 months- that is fine. But you don't go "well sucks to be you, enjoy what you have for now something new will be here later." That is a spit in peoples face; and isn't "irrelevant" in anyway, since this is analogues the entire history of the game, even up to the feb patch. We are here because the community had expectations outside the vision, that's what you're basically saying and that's why you're wrong. Like I said, you're acting as a strict consumer and you'll never understand the reason behind anything at this point. Also no proof of concept that balancing would have improved it whatsoever when who knows how many other broken aspects would have surged just to have the same complains to be heard again. > The scene is so small so yes, if everyone in PvP refused to pay it wouldn't make a difference. But you're going to have to clarify your argument because the first part doesn't make sense, Yes; I am seeing it from a consumer. This is a product and it's simple business. None of that changes what A-net choose to do, and what they continue to choose to do. The only expectation was to have good, reasonably balanced PvP, and I already mentioned one thing above that was not an unreasonable burden and people have been asking for, for years. We're only stuck with it here now because of compounding factors that could have been avoided, have been pointed out over the years, and are constantly ignored in place of whatever they want to do. Go check the archived forums. All I see is complains that wouldn't fit in, so really. Nothing different from the past, present or future. Just another day with people being the same broken records they have been. > Not true; there were balance issues but there were several metas where I was very satisfied and at least fun. But adjustments needed to be made for better balance; but instead of getting tweaks and fixes to solve those issues all we got was decline after decline killing diversity, and then maybe massive a shake ups with no reversion to unhealthy choices. This isn't about satisfying everyone, it's about satisfying people who want good PvP; that is the only demand that needed to be met. Especially if they were not going to meet the standards, that the community has told them for years to preserve balance and diversity. Your good PvP can't exist, how many times does it have to be said. > The only reason I brought LoL was for your point to your narrative of "people leave when they can't win" Which is wholly untrue and even documented by in several psychological research papers. Which if you want to argue against fine; but I think you lack the credentials to do so, and this is not the place. > > If you are claiming anything else as justification for players sticking around, that is moving the goal post. The Volume isn't what ultimately matters, it's the consistency that is relevant to our debate. LOL right. The world isn't pretty as you think it is. I'd be pretty rich if I had a dollar for every player from any game I have seen give up on the slightest challenge. > No, your facts don't matter and are easily dismissed if they are anecdotal. Everything you have brought like your 7/10 statistic, or your "People need their mindless power for people to stay" is anecdotal at best. "Anecdotal". It's an hard evident fact that people quit easily, why do you have to deny something so easily proven by watching ANY content out there. > Go look at early marketing, it was promised. When we had chances to obtain it; decisions were made that tore us further way from such a goal. Maybe it's been abandoned, but there is that omni present expectation of quality; if you're saying "Game has been consistently bad, Why compain? This is what we consistently get." Then you are complicit, and part of the problem. What goal? How about you provide it instead. To me sounds more like people have wished for things that never existed nor will. Should you know, no companies have ever worked for the consumer exclusively > Good changes has to be made at the time, and revision and un-nerfing when it goes to far needs to practiced. Safe guards need to be put in place to allow for community testing to preserve healthy game play, as so things don't get worse. A-net should have realized this in 2013, but none of this has ever been a standard, and it needed to be met. Feb patch was the nail in the coffin. If you're saying that there is no use complaining because what's done is done, and all arguments have to be to be relevant to the current meta, then sorry, no. The problem is that A-net didn't listen in the first place, and as the ship sinks and as they die; they deserve the biggest "I told you so" followed by a schadenfreude fueled smirk. There's no good changes, you can say that as much as you'd like. There is none, just try to fit anything in their system. You'll be disappointed as always for expecting.

Delete me.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: >  > pre megapatch pvp was a meme. post patch still a meme but different combat. who wins? you decide at ePiC mEmE bAtTlEs Of HiStOrY ~~~ > >! btw that meme damage could be done on any class Wow, it's worst than I remember. > @"Aktium.9506" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > pre megapatch pvp was a meme. post patch still a meme but different combat. who wins? you decide at ePiC mEmE bAtTlEs Of HiStOrY ~~~ > The one where the only class in the game that doesn't have iframes or blocks doesn't get completely shafted ? My guy, all of it could be unblockable too, it's only a matter of iframes at this point

Hopefully I can catch that on stream again, we'll see what goes by until then.

@"Daishi.6027" You believe in too many things that never mattered from the very start and won't ever later on. Bringing arguments, past and future that don't correlate whatsoever. The community wishes are senseless and without a foundation that doesn't hold to the current vision. The complains are no more than strict self oriented lack of satisfaction, players were always bleeding before and after your realization, times change, shocking! You've expected so much from what you knew would be always homogenized more than anything else out there. If anything, all you see is from the perspective of the consumer and nothing else. Blame Anet all you want, it won't matter. The structure is there and you're stuck with it unless /you/ have the money and meaning to give Anet the better option, also no paying for the new xpac won't change a road map. It's very easy to speak from your very unsatisfied perspective, you don't have to be pretending, I know that you and all of the majority would still not be satisfied. Involving LoL which is known to have constant balance issues that rocks back and forth with the same exact situations, too tanky, too bursty, too tanky, too bursty. There's nothing to do for Anet to ever satisfied anyone. Talk about LoL being more popular is not proof of just good gameplay, most people hate playing the game yet they still do because they like insert "x" reasons, often likely, the characters and lore. Experience speaks for itself, it always did with accurate repetitive results, having said many hours to gather results and show a proof of concept is how you gather facts and I've been doing that for the longest time. However you can take that away and act like I'm just some random dude on the net, I've never been too busy to notice the decline of quality in the gaming industry for both players and companies alike, in our case here. Anet has never changed one bit, but damn have the players been thirsty for something different that was never promised... Oh do you mean the PvP patches? Sure, let's just scramble anything every week without any apparent need, that'll bring back the old perfect so claimed fun times that feb patch ruined, remember that in practice nothing takes time to make good decisions. You'll be able to play celestial ele while tetherbreaker rolls over your team with 5k unblockable damage per dodge.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > It also comes a time where things should be changed in functionality rather than numbers in order to maintain an abundant build diversity which contributes overall to the good health of the game and population, **balance doesn't mean only wack a mole number dumpening** > > Nerfing things down to a point where nobody uses them anywhere goes against the whole idea of playing a MMO, by all means we must always strive for balance but ...oh god this is neither a correct balance process or something worth praising It was already said many times that's the best that could be done. Lot of things that I used to love doing have been significally reduced to the point where I'm better off with something else but I keep it playing because I like what I'm doing that much, if anything it's harder to play, I can't have it any other way. @"Psycoprophet.8107" Fights are "slower" to an extend but not devoid of quick kills either given what you are fighting isn't a bunker per say. Typically if you fight anything with some form of sustain you're likely to whiff an important skill that would end the fight quickly which extends the fight because punishes don't mean instant kill anymore. Key word here being punish, if all it took is just one like before or if at all none because some could just face roll, where's the fun or skill in that? There has to be some form of consistency required to make the ability of the players matter and not simply "build counter this, build counter that" which is the beauty of GW2, the match ups. I'm not here to scream the game is the most skillful of all but there's a degree to it, let's leave it at that. Consistency in an ability to do the right there is an important part of any game and this balance patch has brought to that to the table in a very large bite. My final opinion would be that players don't look at buffs or debuffs enough then think they are doing low damage, as core rev I rely on buffs heavily and I am constantly being slammed by all the best skills of players just to have them soaked because they didn't wait them out or counter them.

Most of Revenant currently and it doesn't really change outside of playing Herald that isn't using Retribution. Weakness is a big part of the sustain, as long as you have it you shouldn't use the big guns, but it's also where I can deal the most damage so you should be wary of my attacks. Most of my skills are highly telegraphed and will be a risk of death if interrupted after stunbreaking or using a stunbreak to sustain already because the bigger part of what keeps my alive as the stunbreak themselves. The pacing of aggression should be consistent because the longer I get to rest, the more powerful the following will be due to energy stacking.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > I can see why anet devs avoid the forums though as its literally 98% useless bias nonsense and 2% useful feedback. > > You are definitely in the 98%. > > I'm quoting this because clarity immediately shot down by insult. > > if I was a dev working on this game I'd avoid these forums too. Objectively all we do is yell and expect them to sift through all the posts, gather only the correct information and then package it perfectly into a balance patch, like this game isnt their job and they don't have other things to do to unwind or relax. > > We're going to need people to start preparing well constructed posts, updating them regularly, listening to people who challenge their opinions and then be willing to adapt their balance suggestions based on that, -then- tap the devs about it. The large portion of the playerbase is floating in and out of PVE and even if we get ignored here until we quit pvp will continue to be populated by PVEers lured by shinies. I'm sure nobody is getting a paycheck to do anything but remove ToS violations here. Based on one post I had made before on specific issues, they've fixed multiple of these niche annoyances. They probably read them and laugh their way out at most while still having a bit of hope that something useful comes out of the chaos.

@"KelyNeli.4516" You look it up yourself, I have no need to bring forth content that will be obviously argued for being wrong in this biased topic about the state of the entire game, let alone the contradictions in your post has me questioning why you even bother. This community is an sad accident when it comes to PvP and has no sense of self preservation unless they get what they want at the cost of even having a bit of fun over instant gratification. Most of the posts are made by people who used to play immortal broken builds that would toss over entire unbalanced games for their ego to be satisfied and I have no regret to state the obvious denial everyone is experiencing as of late. It's like Guild Wars 2 shouldn't be Guild Wars 2 but whatever players imagined it to be; some kind of random keymash with no thinking upfront. PvP was like you guys are so wishing it to be before and it did no better, actually was worst and the only thing holding it together was the fact people could be braindead about it and those always come and leave in mass. The sane players are only ones of what actually remains in this game, those that didn't quit when they should have like everyone else, at least they aren't missing out on how GW2 PvP could have been when the game has it's players put to a higher skill cap, without the very uncared aspects of the game let loose to have anyone trying to do anything frustrated and disappointed that they couldn't defeat this "insert immortal broken builds with insane damage" player here now complaining on the forum they can't be carried by their build anymore.

@"Kuma.1503" >Conviction does not turn hypothesis into fact. You cannot prove this to be true, claiming otherwise would be dishonest. Dude with the years I have spend on the gaming community as a whole with over 10k hours in certain games, it was clear fact that 7 times out of 10 players can't take it and leave if things don't go their ways. It doesn't take a degree in Psychology to figure out how gaming has evolved as a whole in matter predatory acts that exploits those behaviors too. >Guess that poor lad who just wanted to play his celestial ele and couldn't doesn't count eh? Should I add myself to the exception that I want to play my perma resistance herald again? No, why do we always bring up examples like this, you know they aren't relevant. Because I want to play something specifically doesn't mean I should be devoid of balance. That's just another example of, I can't do what I want therefor ima quit. >You'd be surprised. A desire for growth is near-universal among humans. It's not something exclusive to an elite club of individuals. It's arrogant to assume that your own desire to improve far exceeds the majority of the playerbase. You never had to assume it's only about me, there's no other way to put it. People should "git gud" or let the game die, both are fair to me because in the end I had fun, did you? Did anyone else? You see, as much as you or anyone think of me as an egocentric jerk, I'm tired of seeing the whining here or in game when the players themselves have never changed but the game has changed countless times for them, yet they're still disrespecting the efforts of the people in charge. It's disgusting. >Better by what metric? If we're judging whether or not it's better based on opinion, well, we'll be here a while. However, if the population is any guage, things are, in fact, not better. Fewer players results in weaker matchmaking, which results in lower quality matches... A fact which is especially harsh on players attempting to pick up PvP for the first time. >Fact is, if the current state of balance only appeals to a niche few individuals at the expense of the large majority of retiring veterans, the quality of said balance should come into question. You see, even if GW2 was what everyone wanted this instant, it wouldn't magically bring people back and because players aren't coming back doesn't mean the game isn't improving either. I would say it's wrong that the current game state appeals to a niche population, it's the way the game should have been from the very start, free of the PvE power creep. Sure you can attract by making them think it's fun to be super strong but that will never make them think they'll have to improve in case of a roadblock, it'll be the same vicious circle all over again.