Shao.7236

Utility on Core Elementalist has cooldowns that are way too high. Armor of Earth and Mist Form CD's should be the same as PvE, this'll make them considerably competitive to Twist of Fate or Signet of Air. There's almost no ways to reliably keep people in the AoE's which is why Immobilize duration on Arcane skills should be increased to 2 seconds. Also have Arcane Blast get it's 3rd charge back since the nerf has balanced out how it could be pretty good in the past. Dagger off-hand Water skills could really use a buff, Frost Aura and Cleansing Wave to be both 25 CDs while the conditions removed be 3 like Magnetic Wave, Focus is just too good otherwise.

Conquest works because having to play with an objective puts to use more aspects of the game than any sort of TDM. Having a capture the flag would be terrible and I don't want to imagine how awful everything else would be. Conquest is just the best design for GW2, Stronghold can work but people prefer Conquest.

Damage is relatively still higher than during the base game as most claim, if that's the case. Changing the health pools to a lower state because we nerfed a bunch of things doesn't make any sense.

@"Daishi.6027" I've seen all of this already, all of it still hold true to this day, they've done what they said would, in fact we got skill split years later after wasting so much time trying to balance PvE with everything else, but that seems to be forgotten already, ungrateful everyone is for the idea to balance PvP in it's own ecosystem. Like said, no good change to make anyone happy here. :-) You realize players nor public haven't cared in the slightest as the decline would continue even after ESL. GW2 in it's current form is something that people only do what they want, there's no incentive or dedication to be had when what you play is F2P at the base with a B2P scheme of skins you can buy via Gold in game, the xpac are no more than a weekly grocery that you'll forget you had days later. Obviously as a consumer you wouldn't see how much it takes to keep peoples attention against the other behemoths. Anet saw it and they dropped the ball for that reason as well as their own players not really giving a crap, which if you want to blame Anet for going B2P instead of P2P, you can. What "you" should have cared about that Anet should be blamed for is the lack of advertising. That is all period, to hear people say "lul gemstore patch, no pvp, anet sux" is like whining at someone for having a job at the restaurant you're eating the food of and decide to have something you don't like while you have everything else they "can" offer available to you. It's own their terms to decide what works and what doesn't because they are the ones with the data, if you ain't happy you're not forced to stay, it ain't spitting in your face, they do what they have to do. Telling them recommendations are welcomed but they have to be within the realm of possibility of the company itself, not competitors to compare them to. Stronghold being a failure is no surprise, if you pay close to attention that they were planning to do with it, you can almost, just almost see the reason why it existed in the first place. To think that adding content to PvP when people are not happy with the base game alone, you call that a good investment? It's fashion wars you're talking about, you're not giving them money and buying EoD will be nothing in the bigger numbers even if you'd count all the PvP players from the very beginning of the game, PvE is where it's at and is where it'll always be even in a perfected version of PvP with everything that you'd wish for. Get the point yet? Probably not, afterall. The game is in it's "worst" state. I can't say that without laughing, people think this is the worst GW2 PvP has ever been. It's comical. I've been happy with whatever Anet gave me but I wasn't without criticism, right now it's clear that you have fantasies bigger than what you could pay their own dev team to do, they would have done it otherwise. Let's not be delusional about the situation they are in, at what sounds to be anything but your own gain when everything isn't as bad as they seem but you think it is, I shouldn't have to tell you any of this. On the scale of everything else, games like LoL, Smite or even Dota 2, whatever unrelated fighting game or shooter don't have the same challenge that Anet has to go through, they are far far far from it. So people can compare them as much as they like, but it factually still is a biased comparison regardless and to say otherwise is "delusional" to expect GW2 to be comparable. WoW, BDO or FF are the only valid comparison and neither of all are having a good time in the PvP side of things which says something. Finally, the game was power crept to the max and nobody acknowledges it, bet the nerfs are only starting to match it which is good not matter how hard it's denied.

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > Wow, it's worst than I remember. > > > > my first wake up moment was when i got hit for a 14k (in that ballpark) ranger axe 3. pvp was a giant meme back then and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. > > And people still think that this kind of damage was good for healthy pvp... You can't make this up, but it's w/e. Games more fun if everything dies randomly left and right for everyone or nobody ever dies because they can evade a thousand time with single digit options available. That's build diversity in a nutshell. Be gone if we adjust stats to make decisions matter more or or even teamwork, what could we ever do? Yeah surely, surely it would be better to go back. Finding a good middle ground isn't balance, that's just horrible decision making that creates the worst state the game has ever been in.

> @"Daishi.6027" said: > Actually this is very important for the perspective of how the game has evolved until this point. Compounding factors are not irrelevant simply because you say so. No, it's irrelevant. The game hasn't evolved in the slightest for any important goals whatsoever. > The community wishes not being met is how we got to where we are. When Hambow and Petting Zoo were dominating; balance only needed to be tweaked regarding those (and maybe Engie), and we'd have had half a year of solid PvP. Instead A-net shakes the entire thing up and does not correct for errors. These aren't the types of thing that are "senseless and without foundation". If A-net wanted to have a shake up in 6 months- that is fine. But you don't go "well sucks to be you, enjoy what you have for now something new will be here later." That is a spit in peoples face; and isn't "irrelevant" in anyway, since this is analogues the entire history of the game, even up to the feb patch. We are here because the community had expectations outside the vision, that's what you're basically saying and that's why you're wrong. Like I said, you're acting as a strict consumer and you'll never understand the reason behind anything at this point. Also no proof of concept that balancing would have improved it whatsoever when who knows how many other broken aspects would have surged just to have the same complains to be heard again. > The scene is so small so yes, if everyone in PvP refused to pay it wouldn't make a difference. But you're going to have to clarify your argument because the first part doesn't make sense, Yes; I am seeing it from a consumer. This is a product and it's simple business. None of that changes what A-net choose to do, and what they continue to choose to do. The only expectation was to have good, reasonably balanced PvP, and I already mentioned one thing above that was not an unreasonable burden and people have been asking for, for years. We're only stuck with it here now because of compounding factors that could have been avoided, have been pointed out over the years, and are constantly ignored in place of whatever they want to do. Go check the archived forums. All I see is complains that wouldn't fit in, so really. Nothing different from the past, present or future. Just another day with people being the same broken records they have been. > Not true; there were balance issues but there were several metas where I was very satisfied and at least fun. But adjustments needed to be made for better balance; but instead of getting tweaks and fixes to solve those issues all we got was decline after decline killing diversity, and then maybe massive a shake ups with no reversion to unhealthy choices. This isn't about satisfying everyone, it's about satisfying people who want good PvP; that is the only demand that needed to be met. Especially if they were not going to meet the standards, that the community has told them for years to preserve balance and diversity. Your good PvP can't exist, how many times does it have to be said. > The only reason I brought LoL was for your point to your narrative of "people leave when they can't win" Which is wholly untrue and even documented by in several psychological research papers. Which if you want to argue against fine; but I think you lack the credentials to do so, and this is not the place. > > If you are claiming anything else as justification for players sticking around, that is moving the goal post. The Volume isn't what ultimately matters, it's the consistency that is relevant to our debate. LOL right. The world isn't pretty as you think it is. I'd be pretty rich if I had a dollar for every player from any game I have seen give up on the slightest challenge. > No, your facts don't matter and are easily dismissed if they are anecdotal. Everything you have brought like your 7/10 statistic, or your "People need their mindless power for people to stay" is anecdotal at best. "Anecdotal". It's an hard evident fact that people quit easily, why do you have to deny something so easily proven by watching ANY content out there. > Go look at early marketing, it was promised. When we had chances to obtain it; decisions were made that tore us further way from such a goal. Maybe it's been abandoned, but there is that omni present expectation of quality; if you're saying "Game has been consistently bad, Why compain? This is what we consistently get." Then you are complicit, and part of the problem. What goal? How about you provide it instead. To me sounds more like people have wished for things that never existed nor will. Should you know, no companies have ever worked for the consumer exclusively > Good changes has to be made at the time, and revision and un-nerfing when it goes to far needs to practiced. Safe guards need to be put in place to allow for community testing to preserve healthy game play, as so things don't get worse. A-net should have realized this in 2013, but none of this has ever been a standard, and it needed to be met. Feb patch was the nail in the coffin. If you're saying that there is no use complaining because what's done is done, and all arguments have to be to be relevant to the current meta, then sorry, no. The problem is that A-net didn't listen in the first place, and as the ship sinks and as they die; they deserve the biggest "I told you so" followed by a schadenfreude fueled smirk. There's no good changes, you can say that as much as you'd like. There is none, just try to fit anything in their system. You'll be disappointed as always for expecting.

Delete me.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: >  > pre megapatch pvp was a meme. post patch still a meme but different combat. who wins? you decide at ePiC mEmE bAtTlEs Of HiStOrY ~~~ > >! btw that meme damage could be done on any class Wow, it's worst than I remember. > @"Aktium.9506" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > pre megapatch pvp was a meme. post patch still a meme but different combat. who wins? you decide at ePiC mEmE bAtTlEs Of HiStOrY ~~~ > The one where the only class in the game that doesn't have iframes or blocks doesn't get completely shafted ? My guy, all of it could be unblockable too, it's only a matter of iframes at this point

Hopefully I can catch that on stream again, we'll see what goes by until then.

@"Daishi.6027" You believe in too many things that never mattered from the very start and won't ever later on. Bringing arguments, past and future that don't correlate whatsoever. The community wishes are senseless and without a foundation that doesn't hold to the current vision. The complains are no more than strict self oriented lack of satisfaction, players were always bleeding before and after your realization, times change, shocking! You've expected so much from what you knew would be always homogenized more than anything else out there. If anything, all you see is from the perspective of the consumer and nothing else. Blame Anet all you want, it won't matter. The structure is there and you're stuck with it unless /you/ have the money and meaning to give Anet the better option, also no paying for the new xpac won't change a road map. It's very easy to speak from your very unsatisfied perspective, you don't have to be pretending, I know that you and all of the majority would still not be satisfied. Involving LoL which is known to have constant balance issues that rocks back and forth with the same exact situations, too tanky, too bursty, too tanky, too bursty. There's nothing to do for Anet to ever satisfied anyone. Talk about LoL being more popular is not proof of just good gameplay, most people hate playing the game yet they still do because they like insert "x" reasons, often likely, the characters and lore. Experience speaks for itself, it always did with accurate repetitive results, having said many hours to gather results and show a proof of concept is how you gather facts and I've been doing that for the longest time. However you can take that away and act like I'm just some random dude on the net, I've never been too busy to notice the decline of quality in the gaming industry for both players and companies alike, in our case here. Anet has never changed one bit, but damn have the players been thirsty for something different that was never promised... Oh do you mean the PvP patches? Sure, let's just scramble anything every week without any apparent need, that'll bring back the old perfect so claimed fun times that feb patch ruined, remember that in practice nothing takes time to make good decisions. You'll be able to play celestial ele while tetherbreaker rolls over your team with 5k unblockable damage per dodge.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > It also comes a time where things should be changed in functionality rather than numbers in order to maintain an abundant build diversity which contributes overall to the good health of the game and population, **balance doesn't mean only wack a mole number dumpening** > > Nerfing things down to a point where nobody uses them anywhere goes against the whole idea of playing a MMO, by all means we must always strive for balance but ...oh god this is neither a correct balance process or something worth praising It was already said many times that's the best that could be done. Lot of things that I used to love doing have been significally reduced to the point where I'm better off with something else but I keep it playing because I like what I'm doing that much, if anything it's harder to play, I can't have it any other way. @"Psycoprophet.8107" Fights are "slower" to an extend but not devoid of quick kills either given what you are fighting isn't a bunker per say. Typically if you fight anything with some form of sustain you're likely to whiff an important skill that would end the fight quickly which extends the fight because punishes don't mean instant kill anymore. Key word here being punish, if all it took is just one like before or if at all none because some could just face roll, where's the fun or skill in that? There has to be some form of consistency required to make the ability of the players matter and not simply "build counter this, build counter that" which is the beauty of GW2, the match ups. I'm not here to scream the game is the most skillful of all but there's a degree to it, let's leave it at that. Consistency in an ability to do the right there is an important part of any game and this balance patch has brought to that to the table in a very large bite. My final opinion would be that players don't look at buffs or debuffs enough then think they are doing low damage, as core rev I rely on buffs heavily and I am constantly being slammed by all the best skills of players just to have them soaked because they didn't wait them out or counter them.

Most of Revenant currently and it doesn't really change outside of playing Herald that isn't using Retribution. Weakness is a big part of the sustain, as long as you have it you shouldn't use the big guns, but it's also where I can deal the most damage so you should be wary of my attacks. Most of my skills are highly telegraphed and will be a risk of death if interrupted after stunbreaking or using a stunbreak to sustain already because the bigger part of what keeps my alive as the stunbreak themselves. The pacing of aggression should be consistent because the longer I get to rest, the more powerful the following will be due to energy stacking.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > I can see why anet devs avoid the forums though as its literally 98% useless bias nonsense and 2% useful feedback. > > You are definitely in the 98%. > > I'm quoting this because clarity immediately shot down by insult. > > if I was a dev working on this game I'd avoid these forums too. Objectively all we do is yell and expect them to sift through all the posts, gather only the correct information and then package it perfectly into a balance patch, like this game isnt their job and they don't have other things to do to unwind or relax. > > We're going to need people to start preparing well constructed posts, updating them regularly, listening to people who challenge their opinions and then be willing to adapt their balance suggestions based on that, -then- tap the devs about it. The large portion of the playerbase is floating in and out of PVE and even if we get ignored here until we quit pvp will continue to be populated by PVEers lured by shinies. I'm sure nobody is getting a paycheck to do anything but remove ToS violations here. Based on one post I had made before on specific issues, they've fixed multiple of these niche annoyances. They probably read them and laugh their way out at most while still having a bit of hope that something useful comes out of the chaos.

@"KelyNeli.4516" You look it up yourself, I have no need to bring forth content that will be obviously argued for being wrong in this biased topic about the state of the entire game, let alone the contradictions in your post has me questioning why you even bother. This community is an sad accident when it comes to PvP and has no sense of self preservation unless they get what they want at the cost of even having a bit of fun over instant gratification. Most of the posts are made by people who used to play immortal broken builds that would toss over entire unbalanced games for their ego to be satisfied and I have no regret to state the obvious denial everyone is experiencing as of late. It's like Guild Wars 2 shouldn't be Guild Wars 2 but whatever players imagined it to be; some kind of random keymash with no thinking upfront. PvP was like you guys are so wishing it to be before and it did no better, actually was worst and the only thing holding it together was the fact people could be braindead about it and those always come and leave in mass. The sane players are only ones of what actually remains in this game, those that didn't quit when they should have like everyone else, at least they aren't missing out on how GW2 PvP could have been when the game has it's players put to a higher skill cap, without the very uncared aspects of the game let loose to have anyone trying to do anything frustrated and disappointed that they couldn't defeat this "insert immortal broken builds with insane damage" player here now complaining on the forum they can't be carried by their build anymore.

@"Kuma.1503" >Conviction does not turn hypothesis into fact. You cannot prove this to be true, claiming otherwise would be dishonest. Dude with the years I have spend on the gaming community as a whole with over 10k hours in certain games, it was clear fact that 7 times out of 10 players can't take it and leave if things don't go their ways. It doesn't take a degree in Psychology to figure out how gaming has evolved as a whole in matter predatory acts that exploits those behaviors too. >Guess that poor lad who just wanted to play his celestial ele and couldn't doesn't count eh? Should I add myself to the exception that I want to play my perma resistance herald again? No, why do we always bring up examples like this, you know they aren't relevant. Because I want to play something specifically doesn't mean I should be devoid of balance. That's just another example of, I can't do what I want therefor ima quit. >You'd be surprised. A desire for growth is near-universal among humans. It's not something exclusive to an elite club of individuals. It's arrogant to assume that your own desire to improve far exceeds the majority of the playerbase. You never had to assume it's only about me, there's no other way to put it. People should "git gud" or let the game die, both are fair to me because in the end I had fun, did you? Did anyone else? You see, as much as you or anyone think of me as an egocentric jerk, I'm tired of seeing the whining here or in game when the players themselves have never changed but the game has changed countless times for them, yet they're still disrespecting the efforts of the people in charge. It's disgusting. >Better by what metric? If we're judging whether or not it's better based on opinion, well, we'll be here a while. However, if the population is any guage, things are, in fact, not better. Fewer players results in weaker matchmaking, which results in lower quality matches... A fact which is especially harsh on players attempting to pick up PvP for the first time. >Fact is, if the current state of balance only appeals to a niche few individuals at the expense of the large majority of retiring veterans, the quality of said balance should come into question. You see, even if GW2 was what everyone wanted this instant, it wouldn't magically bring people back and because players aren't coming back doesn't mean the game isn't improving either. I would say it's wrong that the current game state appeals to a niche population, it's the way the game should have been from the very start, free of the PvE power creep. Sure you can attract by making them think it's fun to be super strong but that will never make them think they'll have to improve in case of a roadblock, it'll be the same vicious circle all over again.

@"Daishi.6027" >I never made such a claim that HoT and PoF were balanced, those are your words and either you faulty inference, or blatant attempt to argue by a red herring, when that is not my claim. Your arguement still implies that feb patch or anything before did wrong and we are better off without it all. You can't make this up. >LOL! Are these the lies we use to justify this state of the game? No wonder this is where we're at. Otherwise bringing forth /useless/ substance to the conversation because I already stated that the game was dying way before this. And you think that passively tossing newer arguments is going to save you avoiding your prior requests from me? Yeah, as thought. You ignored them. Majority of players quit when they can't be cheesy, that's a hard undeniable fact. >This game has never been balanced, and it's not balanced now. It's been bleeding players since release, we've had multiple waves and multiple mass exodus' on top of a steady stream of continual deteriorations like being dropped from ESL. You even said in a prior post that you only came around HoT, several years following initial decline. However, such declines are never instantaneous. The big Feb patch to many was a breaking point after 8 years of let down; the point where anyone hopeful that this game could have been a thing gave up. The game COULD have been balanced a lot better, a lot earlier, but feb was many players last hope and the biggest thing it served to do was eliminate diversity, and seat a new build on a throne which wasn't taken care of for over half a year. Yeah just take everything that I said like I never did and regurgitate it with more vague elitism as if that adds any value. HOW CAN YOU PROVE THAT DIVERSITY IS DEAD WHEN EVERYONE IS PLAYING WHAT THEY WANT RIGHT THIS MOMENT????? ZZZZZZZ. The word Balanced is a nuance, it doesn't say perfection unless stated, me saying it's balanced now doesn't insinuate perfection. Nice try though, you almost shoved that statement into my throat like I ever said that this game is without any flaw while I'm probably one of the only person putting up elaborated dedicated threads of my favorite profession for nerfs and buffs that barely gets any attention, even god damn bug threads of the most niche affaires. >And fighting games which have all the same, are far more recognized as a e-sport, and even the dwindling communities for some dwarf GW2 in concurrent players, and many of them support a wider diverse roster of selection and playstyles than GW2. What's the biggest difference between them and GW2? Reasonable deviations of balance between the characters. And just like everyone else, yeah I said it. Everyone else, you're going to attempt and defend your involvement with the most non sensical vague uncomparable arguments (An RPG to Fighting) by bringing unrelated catalysts with opinionated thoughts because it's offending to say that this community doesn't know any better, how dare me acting like I am better, it's totally what I've been saying all this time, that I am without any flaws, except I don't see that anywhere and I'm not afraid to realize that the reality is, everything ain't so bad and people refuse to actually move on from it because it was "so much better back then", you know that they had satisfaction in pulling off the most "mindless" builds, sure and bring forth the spamming in a fighter argument, as if you can punish anything that's offensive and defensive at the same time, it's almost as if like you're missing the point on "balance". >Literally no one in any competitive game has ever done that except the most petulant and entitled kids who can't win; Completely ignore how an avid RPG player should be expected to have the dedication of a Fighter player to improve.. You go ahead and deny that fact then come back telling me that I am stupid for thinking that it's probably because people just can't accept that they need to get better at it. Have you forgot what kind of genre we're dealing with? Or really how the real world population and genres of game have evolved to be. As many, irrepressively blind, it's no wonder that in every single community that I participate, they're all dying one way or another. It is truly human nature to just be this impossibly dumb. Arena shooters have died for the same reasons as humanity became unable to tell themselves, that they probably should get better at it or admit that they're bad and move on from it. >CMC on a live steam even said himself "we could do perfect balance, but that wouldn't be fun" which I'd argue that it hasn't been tested in this game but, fine. However the biggest let down is that he followed up that statement with (paraphrasing) "not every change we make will be healthy, it's fine we'll try better next time.", which ya, reasonable to assume that. However this comes across as extremely apathetic when you consider that it explicitly shows full awareness when something is unhealthy. And then we see no attempt to fix it, and only it; as it pollutes the game for months and moths on end No games have been shaped on the players, players should be the ones that point out mistakes at best, but still work on the same idealogy the devs have had intended. It's also very dumb to expect changes right away as soon as people find something they don't like, because they are too busy comtemplating how overpowered something is rather than finding something to work around it. >But okay, keep defending your dying scene as if it gives you a leg to stand on. Everyone else is the problem, your game is god tier and perfect, with amazing balance and everyone else is wrong. eyeroll Just for your special dedicated case to my statement on balance, it has improved a lot and players are the one that needs to adapt, still not getting it? It's not perfect but it's better than what we had before. Not picking up on it is the prime example of a /whiny/ playerbase, because "I" am doing good at it and I am having fun that is as crystal clear because my gameplay is rewarded with good plays and punished with bad plays, nothing ever says I am perfect, you're the one taking offense to my statement that people are not wanting to improve, like it's illegal or whatever.

> @"avey.4201" said: > Dragons maw isn't the only skill combo with Judges intervention, as the heal trap is used solely for it's blind, and is also sometimes used. > Longbow isn't viable, traps aren't viable, power DH isn't playable, Anet took my money and left the game unplayable. > This meta made the game very unfun, but removing functionality to nerf something that isn't capable of killing bots is unacceptable. > I'm uninstalling though kitten Anet. What do you mean Power DH is unplayable, I play it on a daily basis and it's working just fine. True Shot still hits for 5k on Marauder fairly easily and Test of Faith co-efficient were never changed therefor still hit hard. Maybe start trying.

They're traps, you're supposed to think ahead of time with them.

@"Daishi.6027" >Did you pick a game or two? Good, Now: Why can those games maintain large player bases with interest, despite how many are likely at the bottom level? >Why do they have healthy populations? >If you think it's mindless think of the easiest builds to play right, now and ask yourself if GW2 is still more demanding? >Let's say GW2 is not well enough known, and so it will have a naturally smaller player base; then why couldn't it retain the healthy numbers we had a few years ago? Take away the most overpowered aspects in Apex Legends which is Wingman/Mastiff/Hemlok/Wraith/Pathfinder away from Sweatlords, I can guaranteed you half the player base will quit even though it's a good game with many positives outside the TTVtwitchTTV.tv players all being the same exact carbon copy to win the game. (Sounds like GW2 mindless gameplay.) Take away the AWP from CS which is another overpowered aspect from the game and one of only way many scrubs can play, you'll probably kill it's already dying state even though it's also a good game with otherwise balanced aspects but problematic hitreg at times yet all that get tossed out the window with the existence of the AWP. (Sounds like GW2 mindless gameplay.) Your point is faulty. >I'm sorry, but no. People aren't leaving because "they can't have their mindless fun". Literally no one in any competitive game has ever done that except the most petulant and entitled kids who can't win; and it's spectrum levels of short sightedness, as well as insulting, and profoundly conceited to simply assume everyone who supported the game over the years has dropped for such a reason... >Not to mention statistically unlikely, given the sheer number of players who've left. Hypocrisy at it's finest. It's been already told that people were quitting because GW2 was never balanced unlike now but it was already too late. You're implying in HoT and PoF the game was totally balanced which is an hilarious sight seeing. You're gonna tell me that permanent damage sponge stunbreaking heralds, 1v5 5k unblockable evade damage spamming spellbreakers, 1v5 scrappers node bunkers, unburstable mirages, node wide covering damage sponge scourges, 1v5 node symbol spamming immortal firebrands, unblockable 50k damage bursts from soulbeasts, 1v5 chrono bunkers, nearly have all boons permanently holosmiths, 40 burn stacks untouchable weavers- Isn't that mindless gameplay? Could go on with this, you don't call that mindless gameplay? Nobody is? Just me? I must the only one that's sane anymore. GW2 has demanding timing, reaction and mechanical understanding. The game has in fact all of the aspects of what could be in competitive games outside aiming, that's the only thing GW2 doesn't do.

So the reasoning is, make everyone overpowered so nobody can be underpowered because tipping the balance in equal match ups is too difficult? I've heard that one before and it's not doing so well in other games. I remember when people were overpowered they were also untouchable and you had to spam low cooldown as the only way to win. I find it even more ironic that you look at duels from before feb patch on youtube, those that had high stakes and they'd take just as long to finish, except people could spam or do ridiculous damage with 1 effortless skill.

> @"Star.8401" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > > It objectively wasn't. > > > > > > That's why all the really good PvP players quit ages ago, why the game has lost all entertainment value, why PvP population is seriously in jeopardy compared to how it used to thrive. > > Oh wait, you are so wrong. > Spvp started to go wild when HoT added elite specs and its been a downhill trend/train since then. Balance will never come again. There are too many factors, and this is why Spvp has lost its population growth and its in a downhill trend. > How am I wrong? That's what I'm saying, before feb it was a mess since the very start, I wasn't there before HoT but was there during it and yes it was terrible with no variety to be seen, PoF had the same issue and that lasted till the blanket nerf of feb which has done a lot more good than people want to admit. But no, it was better when all of it consisted of content added after one another with no thought process behind the abominations that most people complain about balance to this day have become addicted to and want it back so bad, I'm glad it's all gone and that we finally have more playable content. All can whine about bunkers rn, in the end if people stopped playing bunker exclusively and tried DAMAGE instead, we wouldn't have many of the false claims that NOBODY dies. I regardless wouldn't be mad if bunkers died so people would be forced to play dps, but then what of it? MUH BUILD DIVERSITY. Y'all should just deal with it, I am and it's going fine when you play it right.

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" @"UNOwen.7132" >Thats the issue though. Its the opposite. You used to have to play by putting real effort in pre-february patch. After the february patch? The game became utterly braindead. Just an absolute skillless spam fest where you use everything off cooldown and nothing ever dies anyway. And if you don't care if the game dies because of players leaving, then at best you're selfish. Why do everyone spit out the same broken record without any form of example? Game hasn't changed outside offering more pro-active gameplay. This game really deserves to die for how people could careless about anything but their own whatever mindless used to have stupid builds from before. >Evidently you're not actually seeing what the changes did. You also seem to misunderstand why players are leaving. Hint: the non-existence of skill in the current meta, and the fact that the meta is incredibly imbalanced and noone ever dies are major reasons. Wrong, how does it make any sense that you couldn't spam before when all the cooldowns were shorter and the risk was never to be seen whatsoever. Games far from braindead now when decisions actually matter, it's baffling that you think otherwise. "Nothing" ever dies? Right, where's the proof of that? Are you going to tell me that everyone around me suck then? I've heard it before, irrelevant statement. Dare say that if I tell anything has some challenging tactics to go through? I must be bad. Seriously you have the nerve to call me selfish when none of you ever provide actual evidence to your statement, what have you done to prove anything? I don't see anything anywhere that shows how NOBODY ever dies Zzzzz. I've got all I need and have already posting enough to show the difference in between then and now. >And you will be wrong every single time you say that. As you have been every single time you already have. The playerbase is dying because of both bad balance, and the fact that PvP is now just mindless. The game was never interesting to watch before the patch with all the same thing going around with the same short fights of the same one sided tactics with no space to ever be creative at all unlike now. There's absolutely no reason to think it's dying outside the players just plain being unhappy because the old degeneracy is far gone now. I remember damn well every single meta builds that we've had and I know how most of the people in here that actually played it are also the one complaining, it's no coincidence at all and also doesn't surprise me anymore. People are quitting because they can't accept that they suck at the game and aren't wanting to get good, pulling out whatever desperate excuse they can find now because it DEFINITELY wasn't mindless to play prior to the patch, I've never seen so much denial. Knowing that people also pay for Raids only reinforce my statement that people just don't want to be good. Not only it can be proven with footage, but you look at any archived builds and you can tell how stupidly easy everything was to play unlike now. Again, nothing, there's nothing, absolutely nothing ever brought here that proves that this community is nothing but whiny and never can accept that they're bad period, they're always good without ANYTHING to ever improve on. You can go ahead even uno reverse the purpose of my statement once again since that's all you can really do, but I'll reply in advance. I know what I can and can't do, I'll go far out and wide before thinking the game is actually unfair to me, that's actually a lost art today, not even surprised.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed? > > > > Makes no sense. > > > > Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well. > > > > As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway. > > > > Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done. > > > > At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before... > > > > It objectively wasn't. > > > > > > Yeah, gameplay is "in an extremely good state now", thats why we saw a massive drop in players, and overall community opinion on the state is horrendous. Yes, the game *was* objectively better before. The February Patch basically destroyed PvP. I don't need to say it twice, if you're not happy to play with effort, you don't have to stay. I don't care if the game dies because of players leaving. I'm used to be people quitting easily and it wouldn't be the first time good things have gone away because they can't take it. I've been here long enough to see the changes take effect unlike those whining the second they can't do exactly what they want, they leave. I'm gonna keep blaming the players until they are actually mentally challenged. You can say the playerbase is dying because of the balance, I'll keep telling you it's because people can't have their mindless fun so they quit.

> @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > Why are you expecting buffs when nobody is calling them when deserved and all we can find is outliers that the initial patch missed? > > > > Makes no sense. > > > > Nobody is putting an effort in making suggestions that are elaborated for ideas to be tipped in as well. > > > > As far I've noticed when people do suggest "one" thing it's all in vacuum without much consideration of anything else anyway. > > > > Super drastic changes that completely change fundamentals with more than can be done. > > > > At this rate it is really true that people complain because they can, gameplay is an extremely good state right now and we have this unbearable negativity that despite all efforts think that the game was better before... > > > > It objectively wasn't. > > > > > > Well... there are not specific suggestions cuz you cannot fix garbage by increasing damage of a skill by 5-10%. The whole system needs to be readjusted to the equivalent of infamous Feb 2020 balance patch. And the sentiment that damage is too low and the game is bunker haven is widely shared. > > Keep in mind, most players who think the current spvp is garbage stopped playing and mostly posting. You are in the echo chamber of whoever is left. And even among this group, many think the balance is kitten up. > > And regardless, you cannot balance a game by continuously nerfing and/or removing things. For the same reason you cannot balance a game by continuously buffing and/or adding things. This is why it is called “balance.” It's obviously true that you can't balance with just nerfs, but we won't start buffing until we hit everything that got the exception and people are good at finding that because that's the only way they can fight instead of persevering. If they had to buff anything right this instant, it would be a few off hand dagger skills of elementalist along most their utility having awfully long CD's. Call it echo chamber if you want, It could be my bias always playing Zerker all the time, but I have yet to feel like everything hits too softly as I ignore most tank builds unless it's neutral or my node, as to which I am able to sustain for a while or indefinitely depending on my build. To me it feels more like people prefered the chaos over having to finally think behind their actions, because even I can admit to the fact that before feb most of what was played didn't have to get much reasoning to win anything, very often it's the build that win for being more cheesy than the other over the input of the players with the stats being completely out of hand.

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" Let's not forget though even before the patch. Every good iteration of guard builds always had Renewed Focus making it annoying to fight virtues, it was especially annoying with Firebrand. @"Leonidrex.5649" Tell you this, I play with my buddy Sammy and we coordinate a lot of our approaches together to demolish people. Bunkers haven't "really" been an issue as long as we kept our flow going. I can share the mindset that some are too strong, but they're definitely not unkillable with good plays, it's not until even that doesn't work that I'll start considering them being overpowered, but perhaps they are overperforming a little on the input side of things. To be fair it's an unsure statement again because a support/bunker with a bad team is going to lose, but a bunker fighting against a bad team even thought they have bad teammates are likely to win for tunnel visioning very hard. Don't think you could ever fix this behavior unless everyone is glass.