Math.5123
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Posts posted by Math.5123
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You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.
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Right now, the absence of rangers.
Overall, more skillful play.
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Switch class
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In case the sloth didn't make it clear enough.
How about, no?
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> @"Avatar.3568" said:
> > @"mrauls.6519" said:
> > > @"Avatar.3568" said:
> > > But these are 2 different skills, if you change name and give cast time, I want to do the same dmg
> >
> > It doesn't matter that they're 2 different skills. I don't care what they call it. It needs a CAST TIME!
>
> Then I want the dmg
And I'm sure rev players wants a pet. We don't always get what we want though.
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> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > > > > > If pets lose a bunch of damage, Maul and Worldly Impact need their damage back as compensation.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Core Ranger and Soulbeast are barely hanging in viability above the bell curve.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then soulbeast gets "too good" again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dunno. I feel like the stat nerfs on Beastmastery and no pet swap was enough.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Coefficients for melee damage need to return to normal imo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what is "normal" for 6s cd, ability that buffs and debuffs at the same time ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Normal would be determined by:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. What is the practical damage output from other classes like it, in terms of DPS "actual damage per second" regardless of if that damage is being delivered in a single larger whole number that happens once every 6s or over the course of several smaller strikes that happen much more often that aren't easily avoided, such as FB symbol stacks.
> > > > >
> > > > > You guys are caught up in syndrome of "looking at the whole number and not the entire build" in terms of damage output and how practical or impractical it is to land. And upon that, damage alone does not determine whether a build is good or bad or viable at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me give you the best example truth vs. what I mean, that I've ever seen posted in this forum. Something like this was said by some guy passing in and out of here, can't even remember his account name, but what he said is very true:
> > > > >
> > > > > _" Imagine a class that had only 1 health. Imagine if that class had only 1 skill that could be used. When the skill was used, it would have a 50% chance to instantly kill anything targeted but also a 50% chance of instantly killing the player who used that skill. The class would provide a 50% win rate against everyone regardless of the opponent's skill, and a 50% lose rate vs. everyone regardless of the opponent's skill. This new 1 health class with only 1 skill would actually be perfectly balanced, in terms of its ability to effect the outcome of a match, regardless of what tier of play it was in. But rest assured, players would still be in this forum saying that it was "over powered" simply because players in GW2 do not like things with heavy damage, regardless of how balanced it may actually be."_
> > > > >
> > > > > ^ This all goes back to what I've said several times now in this forum, about players needing to differentiate between "when something is actually overperforming" and "when something is just obnoxious design" there is a big difference, and recognizing that difference during nerf discussion is the difference between actually fixing a problem or unfairly nerfing something into a state where it becomes unusable.
> > > >
> > > > Builds can't be compared using "average" dps over 30s to 60s of combat. If so, symbol DH using gs would probably be the strongest build in the game.
> > > > And saying one class has a lot of small pockets of damage, using their abilities for 6 seconds straight to deal that damage should have the same damage (or equal to) a class that can kite for 6 seconds, about face and deal all that accumulated damage in a single hit is just not justifiable. No matter how many words you type in your post.
> > >
> > > Of course it can be compared that way. But your example is situated to highlight the strength of the Ranger burst, but not the strength of the Symbolbrand's damage. The Symbolbrand in a team fight laying all the small pockets of damage, is going to deal A LOT more damage than the Ranger ever will, in a team fight. What you're saying is suggesting that a burst build shouldn't win vs attrition AoE in a circumstance that should favor a burst build? That's bologna my good dude. The burst build definitely should be winning in a circumstance that favors burst damage. And the AoE medium to high attrition off symbols should be winning in a team fight scenario. This is why Rangers are good 1v1s on a side, and why Symbolbrand is baller stronk in a team fight. I don't understand where the confusion about balance is here.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > You say ranger deals very little damage right now, but at the same time both eura and shadow says Knight amulet is NA meta. Try switching to something like demolisher and fighting runes and 5-9k mauls won't be out of the ordinary.
> > >
> > > That's not true at all.
> > >
> > > I run Demolisher on my Core Ranger and its mauls hit for more like 3k - 4k nowadays and that's even when marks mods are active. Everyone has tough stack and resistance rune man, and plenty of prot. Sure, if I manage to hit a Deadeye running Berserker with no prot, I'll still tag a 6k-7k-8k but you can't judge anyone's damage output from the damage taken by outlier serks who have absolutely no attribute tied defenses. Oh and running Knight amulet, seriously removes any & all threatening damage from Core Ranger. Your Rapid Fires start hitting 3ks and your mauls are like 2.5 - 3.5, autos are like 800 - 900, unless you burn a bunch of CDs to combo a couple autos with marks mods, might allow you to tag a couple 2ks - 3ks as someone attempts to retreat. If you guys are complaining about the damage output from the actual Core Ranger when it's wearing Knight's Amulet, you're doing something wrong. literally every build in the game can kite around and bunk vs. the damage from a Knight Core Ranger. If they can manage avoid the pet, the Ranger can't even pump out enough DPS to seriously down a SA DP Thief.
> > >
> > > 5k-9k Mauls are more typical of Marks/Beast/Soulbeast when merged for all the extra bonuses. And in that case they are absorbing and using the pet's damage for themselves, rather than allowing the pet to deal damage as an exterior vector.
> >
> > DPS is not indicative of winning a fight. Ofc burst classes can be favored. But saying they should deal the same damage over a 60s period is insanity
>
> So it sounds to me like you're saying burst classes should deal less damage than a big fat central AoE Bunker Team Support?
>
> That doesn't even make sense dude. The burst class deals a lot of damage because it's a burst class.
>
> May need to reevaluate your theory behind balance there.
>
> I mean if I'm mistaken, please clarify what you're trying to explain.
I will keep it to two different builds on the same class, for clarification. Say I run symbolguard, honor zeal and valor. Put on a Marauder amulet, sword and scepter. This is an attrition build, I will win by pushing my enemy off the node and out-sustaining via honor.
For arguments sake, say if you tank all damage for 60 seconds, you'll take 200k damage.
Build number two, I swap zeal for radiance and honor for virtues, I drop the scepter and equip a hammer. A burst weapon.
Hammer has one ability that does damage, mighty blow on a 10 second cooldown. To be able to reach the same 200k damage, considering I can fit 6 casts into a 60 second period, each mighty blow would need to deal 33000 damage each.
In this scenario, no one would ever run the attrition build.
Same comparison can be done with core condi necro vs SA thief for example.
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> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > > > If pets lose a bunch of damage, Maul and Worldly Impact need their damage back as compensation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Core Ranger and Soulbeast are barely hanging in viability above the bell curve.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then soulbeast gets "too good" again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dunno. I feel like the stat nerfs on Beastmastery and no pet swap was enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > Coefficients for melee damage need to return to normal imo.
> > > >
> > > > what is "normal" for 6s cd, ability that buffs and debuffs at the same time ?
> > >
> > > Normal would be determined by:
> > >
> > > 1. What is the practical damage output from other classes like it, in terms of DPS "actual damage per second" regardless of if that damage is being delivered in a single larger whole number that happens once every 6s or over the course of several smaller strikes that happen much more often that aren't easily avoided, such as FB symbol stacks.
> > >
> > > You guys are caught up in syndrome of "looking at the whole number and not the entire build" in terms of damage output and how practical or impractical it is to land. And upon that, damage alone does not determine whether a build is good or bad or viable at all.
> > >
> > > Let me give you the best example truth vs. what I mean, that I've ever seen posted in this forum. Something like this was said by some guy passing in and out of here, can't even remember his account name, but what he said is very true:
> > >
> > > _" Imagine a class that had only 1 health. Imagine if that class had only 1 skill that could be used. When the skill was used, it would have a 50% chance to instantly kill anything targeted but also a 50% chance of instantly killing the player who used that skill. The class would provide a 50% win rate against everyone regardless of the opponent's skill, and a 50% lose rate vs. everyone regardless of the opponent's skill. This new 1 health class with only 1 skill would actually be perfectly balanced, in terms of its ability to effect the outcome of a match, regardless of what tier of play it was in. But rest assured, players would still be in this forum saying that it was "over powered" simply because players in GW2 do not like things with heavy damage, regardless of how balanced it may actually be."_
> > >
> > > ^ This all goes back to what I've said several times now in this forum, about players needing to differentiate between "when something is actually overperforming" and "when something is just obnoxious design" there is a big difference, and recognizing that difference during nerf discussion is the difference between actually fixing a problem or unfairly nerfing something into a state where it becomes unusable.
> >
> > Builds can't be compared using "average" dps over 30s to 60s of combat. If so, symbol DH using gs would probably be the strongest build in the game.
> > And saying one class has a lot of small pockets of damage, using their abilities for 6 seconds straight to deal that damage should have the same damage (or equal to) a class that can kite for 6 seconds, about face and deal all that accumulated damage in a single hit is just not justifiable. No matter how many words you type in your post.
>
> Of course it can be compared that way. But your example is situated to highlight the strength of the Ranger burst, but not the strength of the Symbolbrand's damage. The Symbolbrand in a team fight laying all the small pockets of damage, is going to deal A LOT more damage than the Ranger ever will, in a team fight. What you're saying is suggesting that a burst build shouldn't win vs attrition AoE in a circumstance that should favor a burst build? That's bologna my good dude. The burst build definitely should be winning in a circumstance that favors burst damage. And the AoE medium to high attrition off symbols should be winning in a team fight scenario. This is why Rangers are good 1v1s on a side, and why Symbolbrand is baller stronk in a team fight. I don't understand where the confusion about balance is here.
>
> >
> > You say ranger deals very little damage right now, but at the same time both eura and shadow says Knight amulet is NA meta. Try switching to something like demolisher and fighting runes and 5-9k mauls won't be out of the ordinary.
>
> That's not true at all.
>
> I run Demolisher on my Core Ranger and its mauls hit for more like 3k - 4k nowadays and that's even when marks mods are active. Everyone has tough stack and resistance rune man, and plenty of prot. Sure, if I manage to hit a Deadeye running Berserker with no prot, I'll still tag a 6k-7k-8k but you can't judge anyone's damage output from the damage taken by outlier serks who have absolutely no attribute tied defenses. Oh and running Knight amulet, seriously removes any & all threatening damage from Core Ranger. Your Rapid Fires start hitting 3ks and your mauls are like 2.5 - 3.5, autos are like 800 - 900, unless you burn a bunch of CDs to combo a couple autos with marks mods, might allow you to tag a couple 2ks - 3ks as someone attempts to retreat. If you guys are complaining about the damage output from the actual Core Ranger when it's wearing Knight's Amulet, you're doing something wrong. literally every build in the game can kite around and bunk vs. the damage from a Knight Core Ranger. If they can manage avoid the pet, the Ranger can't even pump out enough DPS to seriously down a SA DP Thief.
>
> 5k-9k Mauls are more typical of Marks/Beast/Soulbeast when merged for all the extra bonuses. And in that case they are absorbing and using the pet's damage for themselves, rather than allowing the pet to deal damage as an exterior vector.
DPS is not indicative of winning a fight. Ofc burst classes can be favored. But saying they should deal the same damage over a 60s period is insanity
-
> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:
> > > > > > > > Im not even sure why this is even a debate to be frank, we all know what the problems are with Ranger and just as importantly the very top elite pvp players and the majority of top rangers are all in agreement that it is broken at the moment and overperforming for several reasons stated in this thread.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Both Kiri, Eura, and I (the highest rated rangers on NA atm) are all in agreement and understand how important killing the pet is.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1208972#Comment_1208972
> > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1209013#Comment_1209013
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hear thieves going, "Omg why did the pet hit me so hard?" Meanwhile they're on berserker amulet with 13-15k health and no toughness.
> > > > > > > Or necros echoing the same statement on sage/carrion amulet with no toughness in their build either.
> > > > > > > Or mesmers...
> > > > > > > Or anyone else that doesn't have _any_ physical damage mitigation in their build.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yet I don't see many prot holos complaining about ranger damage when I moment of clarity fully buffed maul him for 3.4k damage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because unlike ranger. Thief Ele and Guardian can't afford to run a toughness amulet.
> > > > > > You can't play the game with 11k health and you barely tickle with paladin. We were through this on discord literally like three days ago.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Trust me, no one would be happier than me if I could land 10k hits on Knight or paladin, but it's just not a reality.
> > > > >
> > > > > And yet all 3 of those classes can deal with core ranger pretty easily.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. D/P Daredevil hard counters it. It also has blinds to deal with the ranger and his pet's single hits.
> > > > > 2. D/F Weaver is also a hard counter with all of the projectile denial for our longbow, high blind and weakness uptime on both the ranger and his pet, and constant CCs against a build that only has 6 seconds of stab and stunbreaks. Not to mention Shocking Aura shuts down our Lightning Reflexes.
> > > > > 3. Symbolbrand should not lose to a core ranger. Sagebrand is a hard counter to core ranger because the burns delete our pets.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you're playing berserker amulet on core guardian, you shouldn't complain about bad matchups or getting hit hard when you literally choose not to run toughness in your build. As I suggested on discord, you can run honor for symbols with marauders amulet and take the shield trait + shield and you can get 2500 armor even without toughness on your amulet. Then I linked you [this video](
) of me 1v1ing Tryfox a whole bunch of times on my core guard on point (even though I only have 5% of my games played on it) and you made a bunch of other excuses as to why you insist on sticking with radiance and an amulet that has no survivability stats.> > > > >
> > > > > Oh and... 
> > > > >
> > > > > I can also hit 9k+ whirling wraths on valor virtues dragonhunter with paladin amulet + dolyak runes so don't say guardian can't hit hard on tank amulets.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, with a 20% modifier you'll not be able to keep up in actual games.
> > > > Also landing an entire 2.5 second channel, inside their hitbox. Without them moving.
> > > > But yeah, good job buddy. As conclusive as always
> > >
> > > Yeah just like the Moment of Clarity modifier that only procs when we interrupt something. Yet some people try to make it seem like every single hit from the ranger and hit pet are doing fully buffed damage.
> > > Good luck landing Maul or Hilt Bash on someone that's not standing still or running towards you.
> > > :+1:
> >
> > Maul is literally more than twice the range of true melee abilities. If you can't land a 300 range ability on a node with 360 radius, I don't know what to tell you dude.
>
> The range is 220 on Maul and it actually has terrible interaction with vertical axis.
So it seems, was thinking of Hilt Bash. My bad. Still almost twice the range of actual melee abilities however. Saying you can't land it is just a massive l2p.
-
> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> > > > > If pets lose a bunch of damage, Maul and Worldly Impact need their damage back as compensation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Core Ranger and Soulbeast are barely hanging in viability above the bell curve.
> > > >
> > > > Then soulbeast gets "too good" again.
> > >
> > > Dunno. I feel like the stat nerfs on Beastmastery and no pet swap was enough.
> > >
> > > Coefficients for melee damage need to return to normal imo.
> >
> > what is "normal" for 6s cd, ability that buffs and debuffs at the same time ?
>
> Normal would be determined by:
>
> 1. What is the practical damage output from other classes like it, in terms of DPS "actual damage per second" regardless of if that damage is being delivered in a single larger whole number that happens once every 6s or over the course of several smaller strikes that happen much more often that aren't easily avoided, such as FB symbol stacks.
>
> You guys are caught up in syndrome of "looking at the whole number and not the entire build" in terms of damage output and how practical or impractical it is to land. And upon that, damage alone does not determine whether a build is good or bad or viable at all.
>
> Let me give you the best example truth vs. what I mean, that I've ever seen posted in this forum. Something like this was said by some guy passing in and out of here, can't even remember his account name, but what he said is very true:
>
> _" Imagine a class that had only 1 health. Imagine if that class had only 1 skill that could be used. When the skill was used, it would have a 50% chance to instantly kill anything targeted but also a 50% chance of instantly killing the player who used that skill. The class would provide a 50% win rate against everyone regardless of the opponent's skill, and a 50% lose rate vs. everyone regardless of the opponent's skill. This new 1 health class with only 1 skill would actually be perfectly balanced, in terms of its ability to effect the outcome of a match, regardless of what tier of play it was in. But rest assured, players would still be in this forum saying that it was "over powered" simply because players in GW2 do not like things with heavy damage, regardless of how balanced it may actually be."_
>
> ^ This all goes back to what I've said several times now in this forum, about players needing to differentiate between "when something is actually overperforming" and "when something is just obnoxious design" there is a big difference, and recognizing that difference during nerf discussion is the difference between actually fixing a problem or unfairly nerfing something into a state where it becomes unusable.
Builds can't be compared using "average" dps over 30s to 60s of combat. If so, symbol DH using gs would probably be the strongest build in the game.
And saying one class has a lot of small pockets of damage, using their abilities for 6 seconds straight to deal that damage should have the same damage (or equal to) a class that can kite for 6 seconds, about face and deal all that accumulated damage in a single hit is just not justifiable. No matter how many words you type in your post.
You say ranger deals very little damage right now, but at the same time both eura and shadow says Knight amulet is NA meta. Try switching to something like demolisher and fighting runes and 5-9k mauls won't be out of the ordinary.
-
> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > > > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:
> > > > > > Im not even sure why this is even a debate to be frank, we all know what the problems are with Ranger and just as importantly the very top elite pvp players and the majority of top rangers are all in agreement that it is broken at the moment and overperforming for several reasons stated in this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > Both Kiri, Eura, and I (the highest rated rangers on NA atm) are all in agreement and understand how important killing the pet is.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1208972#Comment_1208972
> > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1209013#Comment_1209013
> > > > >
> > > > > I hear thieves going, "Omg why did the pet hit me so hard?" Meanwhile they're on berserker amulet with 13-15k health and no toughness.
> > > > > Or necros echoing the same statement on sage/carrion amulet with no toughness in their build either.
> > > > > Or mesmers...
> > > > > Or anyone else that doesn't have _any_ physical damage mitigation in their build.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet I don't see many prot holos complaining about ranger damage when I moment of clarity fully buffed maul him for 3.4k damage.
> > > >
> > > > Because unlike ranger. Thief Ele and Guardian can't afford to run a toughness amulet.
> > > > You can't play the game with 11k health and you barely tickle with paladin. We were through this on discord literally like three days ago.
> > > >
> > > > Trust me, no one would be happier than me if I could land 10k hits on Knight or paladin, but it's just not a reality.
> > >
> > > And yet all 3 of those classes can deal with core ranger pretty easily.
> > >
> > > 1. D/P Daredevil hard counters it. It also has blinds to deal with the ranger and his pet's single hits.
> > > 2. D/F Weaver is also a hard counter with all of the projectile denial for our longbow, high blind and weakness uptime on both the ranger and his pet, and constant CCs against a build that only has 6 seconds of stab and stunbreaks. Not to mention Shocking Aura shuts down our Lightning Reflexes.
> > > 3. Symbolbrand should not lose to a core ranger. Sagebrand is a hard counter to core ranger because the burns delete our pets.
> > >
> > > If you're playing berserker amulet on core guardian, you shouldn't complain about bad matchups or getting hit hard when you literally choose not to run toughness in your build. As I suggested on discord, you can run honor for symbols with marauders amulet and take the shield trait + shield and you can get 2500 armor even without toughness on your amulet. Then I linked you [this video](
) of me 1v1ing Tryfox a whole bunch of times on my core guard on point (even though I only have 5% of my games played on it) and you made a bunch of other excuses as to why you insist on sticking with radiance and an amulet that has no survivability stats.> > >
> > > Oh and... 
> > >
> > > I can also hit 9k+ whirling wraths on valor virtues dragonhunter with paladin amulet + dolyak runes so don't say guardian can't hit hard on tank amulets.
> >
> > Yes, with a 20% modifier you'll not be able to keep up in actual games.
> > Also landing an entire 2.5 second channel, inside their hitbox. Without them moving.
> > But yeah, good job buddy. As conclusive as always
>
> Yeah just like the Moment of Clarity modifier that only procs when we interrupt something. Yet some people try to make it seem like every single hit from the ranger and hit pet are doing fully buffed damage.
> Good luck landing Maul or Hilt Bash on someone that's not standing still or running towards you.
> :+1:
Maul is literally more than twice the range of true melee abilities. If you can't land a 300 range ability on a node with 360 radius, I don't know what to tell you dude.
-
> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > > > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:
> > > > Im not even sure why this is even a debate to be frank, we all know what the problems are with Ranger and just as importantly the very top elite pvp players and the majority of top rangers are all in agreement that it is broken at the moment and overperforming for several reasons stated in this thread.
> > >
> > > Both Kiri, Eura, and I (the highest rated rangers on NA atm) are all in agreement and understand how important killing the pet is.
> > >
> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1208972#Comment_1208972
> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1209013#Comment_1209013
> > >
> > > I hear thieves going, "Omg why did the pet hit me so hard?" Meanwhile they're on berserker amulet with 13-15k health and no toughness.
> > > Or necros echoing the same statement on sage/carrion amulet with no toughness in their build either.
> > > Or mesmers...
> > > Or anyone else that doesn't have _any_ physical damage mitigation in their build.
> > >
> > > Yet I don't see many prot holos complaining about ranger damage when I moment of clarity fully buffed maul him for 3.4k damage.
> >
> > Because unlike ranger. Thief Ele and Guardian can't afford to run a toughness amulet.
> > You can't play the game with 11k health and you barely tickle with paladin. We were through this on discord literally like three days ago.
> >
> > Trust me, no one would be happier than me if I could land 10k hits on Knight or paladin, but it's just not a reality.
>
> And yet all 3 of those classes can deal with core ranger pretty easily.
>
> 1. D/P Daredevil hard counters it. It also has blinds to deal with the ranger and his pet's single hits.
> 2. D/F Weaver is also a hard counter with all of the projectile denial for our longbow, high blind and weakness uptime on both the ranger and his pet, and constant CCs against a build that only has 6 seconds of stab and stunbreaks. Not to mention Shocking Aura shuts down our Lightning Reflexes.
> 3. Symbolbrand should not lose to a core ranger. Sagebrand is a hard counter to core ranger because the burns delete our pets.
>
> If you're playing berserker amulet on core guardian, you shouldn't complain about bad matchups or getting hit hard when you literally choose not to run toughness in your build. As I suggested on discord, you can run honor for symbols with marauders amulet and take the shield trait + shield and you can get 2500 armor even without toughness on your amulet. Then I linked you [this video](
) of me 1v1ing Tryfox a whole bunch of times on my core guard on point (even though I only have 5% of my games played on it) and you made a bunch of other excuses as to why you insist on sticking with radiance and an amulet that has no survivability stats.>
> Oh and... 
>
> I can also hit 9k+ whirling wraths on valor virtues dragonhunter with paladin amulet + dolyak runes so don't say guardian can't hit hard on tank amulets.
Yes, with a 20% modifier you'll not be able to keep up in actual games.
Also landing an entire 2.5 second channel, inside their hitbox. Without them moving.
But yeah, good job buddy. As conclusive as always
-
> @"shadowpass.4236" said:
> > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:
> > Im not even sure why this is even a debate to be frank, we all know what the problems are with Ranger and just as importantly the very top elite pvp players and the majority of top rangers are all in agreement that it is broken at the moment and overperforming for several reasons stated in this thread.
>
> Both Kiri, Eura, and I (the highest rated rangers on NA atm) are all in agreement and understand how important killing the pet is.
>
> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1208972#Comment_1208972
> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1209013#Comment_1209013
>
> I hear thieves going, "Omg why did the pet hit me so hard?" Meanwhile they're on berserker amulet with 13-15k health and no toughness.
> Or necros echoing the same statement on sage/carrion amulet with no toughness in their build either.
> Or mesmers...
> Or anyone else that doesn't have _any_ physical damage mitigation in their build.
>
> Yet I don't see many prot holos complaining about ranger damage when I moment of clarity fully buffed maul him for 3.4k damage.
Because unlike ranger. Thief Ele and Guardian can't afford to run a toughness amulet.
You can't play the game with 11k health and you barely tickle with paladin. We were through this on discord literally like three days ago.
Trust me, no one would be happier than me if I could land 10k hits on Knight or paladin, but it's just not a reality.
-
Class stacking is not the same as spec stacking.
A support fb plays nothing like a side node DH or a +1 core guard.
-
It's on Ben's table, he's working on it...
... Since 2017.
-
> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > > > > Guardian is Meta since release, nothing safer for any game mode.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Except in all of HoT and current EU meta. But apart from that, yeah.
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny jokes are always welcome. :)
> > > >
> > > > Oh yeah, you're right. Dragonhunter really did dominate worlds.
> > > >
> > > > DPS Guardian was always a pubstomp class. Never saw play in high profile tournaments. (With the exception of Tage (in the 2014 worlds)).
> > > >
> > > > But you keep complain about guardian when you can't break out of silver buddy.
> > >
> > > Well, you know in this game there are those who lose dodge as tradeoff, there are those who lose a pet as a tradeoff and then there are those who has 15 skills as a new mechanical, for me this is not "balance"
> >
> > And added cast times and double cooldown. So take your improved shatters on mesmer with double cooldown and a second and a half cast time.
>
> Yeah, that's not a trade-off as much as you spin it, same with steal on thieves.
>
> Mesmer shatters got worse on chrono and that didn't make it as a trade-off - distortion and IP were deleted as the trade-off.
So, assuming you're a mesmer main right. Would you triple the effect of all the shatters, but adding a second and a half cast time to all of them and doubling - tripling the cooldown on them all?
Maybe you would, but it would be a trade-off. This is literally what happened to Firebrand.
-
Are you saying guardians have utility skills that aren't meditations? Blasphemy
-
> @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > > > > Guardian is Meta since release, nothing safer for any game mode.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Except in all of HoT and current EU meta. But apart from that, yeah.
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny jokes are always welcome. :)
> > > >
> > > > Oh yeah, you're right. Dragonhunter really did dominate worlds.
> > > >
> > > > DPS Guardian was always a pubstomp class. Never saw play in high profile tournaments. (With the exception of Tage (in the 2014 worlds)).
> > > >
> > > > But you keep complain about guardian when you can't break out of silver buddy.
> > >
> > > Well, you know in this game there are those who lose dodge as tradeoff, there are those who lose a pet as a tradeoff and then there are those who has 15 skills as a new mechanical, for me this is not "balance"
> >
> > And added cast times and double cooldown. So take your improved shatters on mesmer with double cooldown and a second and a half cast time.
>
> And this should be worth as much as the tradeoffs that got other professions?
Brother, take a look at core virtues without traits. Compare it to literally any other class mechanic. Except steal I guess. So yes, there is a trade off, if it's enough or not is debatable.
Saying there is none however is wrong. I would prefer having instant cleanse and stab over Firebrand virtues at times.
-
> @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > > > Guardian is Meta since release, nothing safer for any game mode.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Except in all of HoT and current EU meta. But apart from that, yeah.
> > >
> > > Funny jokes are always welcome. :)
> >
> > Oh yeah, you're right. Dragonhunter really did dominate worlds.
> >
> > DPS Guardian was always a pubstomp class. Never saw play in high profile tournaments. (With the exception of Tage (in the 2014 worlds)).
> >
> > But you keep complain about guardian when you can't break out of silver buddy.
>
> Well, you know in this game there are those who lose dodge as tradeoff, there are those who lose a pet as a tradeoff and then there are those who has 15 skills as a new mechanical, for me this is not "balance"
And added cast times and double cooldown. So take your improved shatters on mesmer with double cooldown and a second and a half cast time.
-
> @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> > @"Tayga.3192" said:
> > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:
> > > We can see from this damage that even if you eat all 10 hits of rapid fire and maul. You still won't be dead.
> >
> > It also counts downstate
>
> I am saying, 6929 dmg from rapid fire + 4515 dmg from maul is not enought to kill someone. I know in the screenshot he just ate all of it on purpose, but if he tried to dodge... I am saying dodging the pet is more important than dodging core ranger damage.
6929 is still very high in this meta. Compare it to something like guardian gs 2 which is melee on top of having lower output. The ranger "just dodge lul" is getting a bit old at this point.
Edit: 4.5k potentially every 4.5 seconds is also very very high for a skill that isn't really melee based.
-
> @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Revolution.5409" said:
> > > Guardian is Meta since release, nothing safer for any game mode.
> > >
> >
> > Except in all of HoT and current EU meta. But apart from that, yeah.
>
> Funny jokes are always welcome. :)
Oh yeah, you're right. Dragonhunter really did dominate worlds.
DPS Guardian was always a pubstomp class. Never saw play in high profile tournaments. (With the exception of Tage (in the 2014 worlds)).
But you keep complain about guardian when you can't break out of silver buddy.
-
> @"Elmo Benchwarmer.3025" said:
> Condition application isn't and probably has never been a generic problem. Try killing even a DPS Guardian with a core condition Engineer. This is just one example out of many.
>
> Truth be told, condition cleanse on some classes is as much out of line as condition application is on others.
Guardians dedicate two major traits, two utilities and an elite skill to cleansing.
-
> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:
> Shiro/Glint is definitely not meta, but it is playable.
>
> The problem with it is it's very easy to counter with the following strategy:
> 1. Wait for them to switch to sword/sword if they aren't already in it.
> 2. Interrupt with any CC
>
> Since it has zero stability and both the stunbreaks have a heavy cost ( One makes them lose fury generation, the other costs 40e and is essentially a self-silence ) spamming Power shiro with CCs is immensely effective. It's like how Necro is easy to CC but in some ways even more because you can force them to switch to staff and play super defensive effectively shutting down their offense.
>
> This weakness doesn't make the build bad, but it does make it fairly straightforward to outplay. I have been kitten on top players using Shiro/Glint with Renegade lately. If you are getting regularly rekt by random heralds you have an l2p issue.
Yeah dude, for sure. Power rev is hot garbage, that's why every team runs at least one. They don't want the wins to be free, so they are deliberately gimping themselves by playing sub-par classes. Same with thief, the real winners of the balance patch are clearly core guardian and FA ele, but people, being such stand up guys won't abuse it for the easy wins they will achieve.
-
> @"Revolution.5409" said:
> Guardian is Meta since release, nothing safer for any game mode.
>
Except in all of HoT and current EU meta. But apart from that, yeah.
-
> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > Honestly whether was needed or not this current version of pvp is absolute garbage. Uve got burn guards/fb literally standing there spamming their burns and defensive skills and profiting without even moving lmao, necro's can just continually use shroud to carry being outplayed to sustain long enough to kill a lot of opponents they shouldn't be able to, condi revs no point everyone knows, thief tickle dps is now so low, so good having a burst class do so little burst dps that tanks laugh in ur face and return same amount if not more damage back at you etc etc, until they fix what they broke pvp is a absolute trash bag, everyone I know left the game 2 weeks after patch and some said they MAY come back come expac but by then who knows. Good luck lol
> >
> > In what rating is burn guard an issue? Rofl
> >
> > Also, two thieves in eu finals. But I guess they just didn't feel like winning and just played it for fun /s
>
> Burns themselves are way overperforming,if u can't see that then u really shouldn't be discussing balance, sry.
Way to dodge the question. If you dodged like that in game, burn guard wouldn't have been an issue.
The Death of Thief
in Player vs. Player
Posted
> @"Project exa.3204" said:
> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
> > You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.
>
> Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.
> Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.
>
> Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.
> -Eros of Ascalon
Thief is already a must have (pretty much) in high tier games. If you buff it for the mediocre people, it will just steamroll everything in high tier. We don't want a repeat of pre patch meta with double SA one shots.