Jski.6180

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding.

> > > > >

> > > > > The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but **turned out to be justified**.

> > > > > Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented.

> > > >

> > > > Most ppl think these nerfs should of never happens even if the op wants to be confusing in the way they are miss leading the tittle. Read what ppl are saying it is the opposite of what the op is saying.

> > > >

> > > > The nerfs are soo bad that ppl are seeking out any topic on it and commenting. By no means dose it have to agree with the op.

> > >

> > > Yes, but by your own admission then, every single comment in this thread is off topic. :sweat_smile:

> > > I know they think they should have never happened and are posting out of outrage. But that's not what OP asked, and you even siad it yourself, it's the opposite of what OP asked. Btw, OP isn't saying anythign, OP asked a question. OP asked if there is some nerf that, after the dust has settled, people thought it's a good nerf.

> >

> > No its not though having a different view on something dose not make it off topic its just the opposite. We do not want topic to just be yes i agree over and over. What the point of talking if you do nothing more then agree.

> >

> > The 2020 nerfs (that spilled over to 2021) where some of the worst nerfs in the game and most incomplete.

>

> The thread isn't the "yes i agree" type though, and you're completely saying things unrelated to the thread. That's off topic.

> And so is this conversation so, write whatever you want i guess. :tongue:

Yet no one is thinking the way you are they are all saying the nerfs are bad and point out why they are bad so... the thread is no longer what you want (as your not the op i have no ideal why you would think you know what the op wanted for all you know it could of been here a thread about nerfs but this is my view on things).

All classes should have medium armor and medium health its kind of silly that the vary of hp / def is still in the game even though the reason for such effects are long gone as in the old trait point system that had hp def build into it to where some classes would get more from there hp line that where low hp and high hp classes would get a lot less.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding.

> > >

> > > The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but **turned out to be justified**.

> > > Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented.

> >

> > Most ppl think these nerfs should of never happens even if the op wants to be confusing in the way they are miss leading the tittle. Read what ppl are saying it is the opposite of what the op is saying.

> >

> > The nerfs are soo bad that ppl are seeking out any topic on it and commenting. By no means dose it have to agree with the op.

>

> Yes, but by your own admission then, every single comment in this thread is off topic. :sweat_smile:

> I know they think they should have never happened and are posting out of outrage. But that's not what OP asked, and you even siad it yourself, it's the opposite of what OP asked. Btw, OP isn't saying anythign, OP asked a question. OP asked if there is some nerf that, after the dust has settled, people thought it's a good nerf.

No its not though having a different view on something dose not make it off topic its just the opposite. We do not want topic to just be yes i agree over and over. What the point of talking if you do nothing more then agree.

The 2020 nerfs (that spilled over to 2021) where some of the worst nerfs in the game and most incomplete.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding.

>

> The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but **turned out to be justified**.

> Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented.

Most ppl think these nerfs should of never happens even if the op wants to be confusing in the way they are miss leading the tittle. Read what ppl are saying it is the opposite of what the op is saying.

The nerfs are soo bad that ppl are seeking out any topic on it and commenting. By no means dose it have to agree with the op.

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> Or how about we return ele to being a long range class seeing as it's the squishiest thing in the world and shouldn't have to rely on gimmicks to survive lol Everything would be cool If I wasn't forced in melee combat because Battle mage=1337 bro, even though a battle mage should wear heavy armor... Tempest overloads require close range, weaver is all close range because scepter and staff are really just lacking in what they provide. Scepter lacks usability outside its old "one-shot" builds, it used to be able to dual before powercreep, but its damage and survivability just can't keep up, and it's aoe skills are locked behind delayed skillshots (dragons tooth, pheonix, shatterstone). Staff has been gutted and suffers from 2012 balance in terms of rooted skills and having too many aoe's that require the enemy to stand still. I mean it works I guess for are denial in pvp modes, but like cmon, it sucks. it's too slow and doesn't hit hard until you get it going. Very bad design for quick, flowing and active combat that this game is designed around.

The thing is weaver is also a long ranged class but simply stronger then core in both dmg and def as well as tempest being a long ranged class but some what stronger in def. The ability of staff being an wepon chose for every elite spec of ele makes every elite spec a long ranged class.

Core ele is significantly glasseser then weaver and tempest yet it get nothing for it AND the weaver and tempest gets all of there skills from the core ele (you realty dont not see tempest of weaver use there weapons.)

Its the quickness and macro the thfs / mez run when they can land 3 hits in less then 1 sec. Anet needs to realty needs to ban ppl for using them. Or remove quickness its an over all abusable boon.

The last and realty only major update of 2020 was too blanket nerf with lots of place holders that effectively destroyed builds. CC dmg nerf for skills that where dmg aimed for the wepon and passive skill that where significantly weaker the others put on 300 sec cd. That and over all 10 target nerf to support skills that where on much longer cd and had less effect over all.

> @"skunkstank.6128" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said:

> > > Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s

> >

> > I think it should be perment lingering elements. It lets core ele in effect be the atuments of its chose as you trait them. I like the double minor when in the atument is cool too.

>

> Yeah i don't think this is such a good idea considering we have weaver it would literally defeat the whole purpose of the elite spec because that is it's signature thing. It would be like giving core engi access to the function gyro or core necro the ability to pick which shroud they want.

>

Right but weaver is more about its dule skills and only needing to be partly in an atument to get the full atument benefit. We are talking about being in another atument and getting the benefit of another atuments line.

That and core ele is widly weaker then weaver so much so you can even call weaver a pure power creep of the core ele more so then what tempest was. Weaver is more tankly and dose more dmg then core ele.

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said:

> Give core ele double minor effects and innate lingering elements for 5s

I think it should be perment lingering elements. It lets core ele in effect be the atuments of its chose as you trait them. I like the double minor when in the atument is cool too.

> @"lLobo.7960" said:

> Tempest rewards you for staying in attunements longer, weaver rewards you for constantly swapping attunements and combining them.

> A spec with only two attunements is really... meh.

> Id rather see an elite spec that change how the attunements give you new skills (so skills are fixed per weapon) and gives you weapon swap.

> This was the suggesntion here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76602/new-elite-spec-disciple-weapon-swap-and-longbow

>

> > @"lLobo.7960" said:

> > The disciple is an elementalist that focus more on martial prowess than raw magic channeling.

> > Focusing on martial expertise and physical prowess, the disciple can swap weapons in combat but looses the ability to have different and unique skills in each attunment and magical attacks.

> > Instead, the disciple uses the elemental magic of attunements to boost its attacks and defenses and uses its weapons in martial combat instead of conduits to magic. To compensate the lack of long range magic attacks, the disciple uses a longbow to deliver his attacks from distance and physical skills to be mobile and effective in combat.

> >

> > **New weapon:** longbow

> > **New utility skills:** physical skills

> > TL/DR: Martial focus elementalist with long range dps as longbow, weapon swap instead of individual attunement skills, mobility, new conditions (torment and poison), and even stealth with combos. Instead of one weapon with 20 new skills, gains one weapon with 5 new skills and new skills for each old weapon (staff 5, scepter 3, dagger 5, focus 2). Staff and dagger become melee versions, scepter becomes akin to mace and focus akin to shield.

>

>

I think weaver rewards you more for staying in an atument then say tempest as you get more dmg for going doable atument meaning you have to stay in that atument longer then an tempest when waiting for overloads (sadly the overload it self is not a ture reward for staying in that atument just an added effect.)

Core ele is the only version of ele that was true 2-3 atuments only though trait lines. Weaver and tempest both get use of the other atuments skill due to there added effects. Core ele got every thing from its trait line and trait lines alone.

> @"Loboling.5293" said:

> Prob blocks and blinds next.

> ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

I do not think anet likes to give ele blocks as ele can do things during blocked and most of the ele def up to now are lock out def. Unless they do give ele a channel shield. Every thing the shield dose is channel and some what def aimed.

But if they make another elite spec. that simply dose the same thing as the core tempest and weaver (they all do the same thing) then its another wait of time.

I am still of the mind conja weapons need to work like there own atument with a 10 sec cd and swap cd (4 sec if your a weaver or tempest).

Its kind of how the Core ele should of been with latent atument where you have the effect of the atument lines you trained into all of the time but your still able to use the 4 or 3 atuments you had not trained into. Say your Fire air arcain core ele you would be effectively a Fire air ele all of the time but you still can go into water and earth with out losing your fire air effects.

As for a new elite spec ele needs boon control badly i am not sure if a 2 only atument would fit.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > Eng is in a very "OP" place right now i am not sure why anet allowed this to last as long as it has.

>

> Because unless you're called ele...you get to be OP/broken for years.....oh by the way @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" plays an engi too so....

I still do not understand this mind set why is it "ok" for classes to have karma tide to them when its the dev who make these choese not the player base.

> @"Zee.1294" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > I just find it funny how people think the next balance patch will fix all of the problems where it will just create other problems, for me.. there is no point to talk about balance, just move to whatever class is best for whatever game mode you play

>

> See... that is exactly why the bar is set so low....Yep... just pick another class....end you call that balance?....ok have fun!

The game was more balanced with out elite spec then with them. So even if you cant say things being balanced ever you can say things are less balanced then they have been. Every new ideal anet seems to have only seems to make things worst if your playing the wrong class or not spending the money to get the right class.

As long as the elite spec can use all of the core weapons, traits and utility the elite spec will simply always be stronger then the core. Anet messed up by not removing equivalent effects and weapons from elites spec vs what the core class has. The best thing is make the core classes more fixable then the elite spec though F1-F5 accessibility.

Best example is your tempest and weaver using staff only most of the time and not there elite weapons.

A lot of the big balance patch (the only one we got) was done in one big update then a few small ones the 10 target update from the last update was only part of the major update. So we only got 1 big update this year.

We are still waiting for the place holder 300 sec cd on passive skills update and for CC re-balancing to be finished as all cc still are on there same unbalanced cd with there dmg update nerfs. So its even worst we did not get a full balance update last year.

Eng is in a very "OP" place right now i am not sure why anet allowed this to last as long as it has.

The buffs on it are nice though i wish there was a quickness buff on it over say the out going heal and boon duration buff. The active is not that good though its all about maxing the duration of the buffs.

We are down to 1 major balance patches a year then... The last update was NOT a balance patches.

Only self these days there just no point in working as a team with them out side of highly consecrated stealth blasting which has a blast cap. Combos for the most part are a dead tool for gw2.

Tempest can play just like a core staff build in wvw maybe better then a core ele it self as it gets a few added strun brakes and a few boon generation that core ele lacks in burst. You just simply lose the ability to arcain root and realy that not as big of a deal. This is true for weaver vs core as well.

Sadly core ele is lacking for no good reason at this point.

Fire aura transmutation and burning speed will be your best burst dmg you have.

Scraper also is one of the strongest boon strip in the game atm due to throw mine there relay is no other reason to play tempest atm.

Bit of an random ideal why not let core ele keep passive effects from atument trait lines regress of what atument they are in from moment to moment. The Minor traits.

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> Well, this thread seems awfully familiar.

>

> Like I said in the last one: though it is theoretically possible to have a healer with lower overall healing modifiers overwrite the regeneration of a healer with higher healing modifiers, in practice this isn't going to happen much. The only people who build up enough healing power to compete in regen priority with a dedicated healer is... another dedicated healer. In any practical sense, you're going to be comparing the regen output of a 1300 heal build with 180% modifiers to a 1250 heal build with 190% modifiers. Yes, there is a difference, but the overall impact in gameplay is negligible.

>

> Your idea to change regen into granting barrier.... doesn't solve much. For one, it will make regen about half as effective overall. Dedicated healing builds can get regen between 500 to 600 per tick, which is quite substantial. I.E. regen from my heal tempest build ticks at 549 per second, but 285 without modifiers. Second, Barrier only lasts for 5 seconds. This changes the problem of suppressed regeneration stacks from an odd fluke to a baked-in feature. Continuously applied regeneration will still override the weaker regeneration. This also makes regen overall weaker, because now its effect isn't permanent.

>

> Your suggestion would fix nothing at all.

>

> EDIT: Also, I think you still misunderstand how regeneration works. New sources of regen don't "negate" old ones. They just take priority. For your scrapper example, if the scrapper applies 1 second of regen with 250 healing power, that will tick for one second, then immediately after the ele's regen will begin ticking away. The only time that a regeneration boon can be suppressed is if you apply enough individual stacks of regen to exceed the boon stacking limit. Again, while this is theoretically possible, in any practical sense you won't see this happen.

You seem to not understand you have more then one way to stack up healing though out going healing where your less tankly as a support but your heals to others are stronger and the healing power set up where your heals are not as strong but your ability to self heal and out put barrier is stronger. Scraper 1 sec reg that apply ever condi they clear often caps out the reg duration eating up all of the ticks. Scraper or realy eng simply has a higher healing base because of passive healing power + this means the eng reg will always hit a group over an healer whom is going all in for support healing and not the tankly support.

As for fixing reg it self this gives anet an easy out to fixing this massive outdated effect that never was balanced for out going healing. It also gives reg an effect out side of only reacting to a hit but letting ppl all have the ability to put up some type of def for an incoming hit making the over all combat more active.