Shroud.2307

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said:

> > > > > > > > @"SteepledHat.1345" said:

> > > > > > > >This "community" hates when thieves dodge to survive. They hate when they stealth to survive. They hate when they teleport to survive.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game.

> > > > >

> > > > > Never played most of the MMOs you mentioned. But i did play WoW like 10 years ago. From what i remember, you could go to stealth only out of combat or with Vanish, that had like 2 minutes cooldown. Also ANY DAMAGE would reveal you and i dont remember having any teleport at all, but there might be one. And are you really telling me, that there are skills for reveal ? really? which one ele have? LOL

> > > > > There is like 9 skills that have reveal in the entire game (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed) and half of them are total garbage

> > > >

> > > > I have played rogue in wow, also above 2200 rating in arena and rbgs. WoW rogues were miles stronger than thieves in GW2. Rogues in wow could stunlock you to death and had actual teleports that worked and not GW2 version of "hey let's use long Cds or entire ini just get no valid path message". On top of it they had absolute long lasting evades and condi immunity which thief could only dream about. I spent a lot of time jumping into whole mob of enemies (high rated at that), murder someone quickly and get away. Every time. Unthinkable in GW2 even with suicide thief. You guys really don't know how good you have it with thief in this game compared to WoW and some other games.

> > >

> > > This 100%^

> > > I could only imagine the qq's if the thief in gw2 was designed similar to nightblade in eso, rogue in wow, ninja in bdo or dark runner in AAU lol. I donno something about gw2 attracts players that qq about everything that beats them a few times. There are no better players in gw2 just op builds so eventually every good build on every class gets gutted with 0 compensation leading to a game with all crappy dumbed down builds and playstyle and the few thst slip through the cracks that yr become fotm choice lol.

> >

> > You do get that this thread was a QQ by a thief and agreed with mostly by other thieves who also are qq'ing about it right? Not to say gw2 players don't qq about thieves or everything in general.

>

> Well, point is this debuff locks out the class out of their main mechanic. People justify it with thief having supposedly too much stealth and bring in other games (which is stupid at best, imo).

> I personally would love if just for 1 day mesmers would be locked out of clones, guards out of heals/blocks, necros out of life force etc. by this this debuff in WvW. Maybe then people would understand the issue. Once again, the community should really blame themselves for having so many thieves ruining their roaming experience - you guys are the one who kick thieves from zergs thus forcing them into roaming solo existence. Some thieves switched to something zerg friendly, other perfected their roaming builds and skills. There are plenty of classes and builds that can easily deal with builds BUT most people don't run them because they prefer to zerg. And then they complain about thieves. Find the error here.

You guys are so thick you don't understand that Stealth is not Thief's mechanic. It's Steal and Initiative. Stealth is a tool that Thief has an abundance of to compensate for its low base HP and low access to blocks and invulnerability. It isn't needed for a Thief to survive or to fight, it just improves their ability to do so. Marked also does not completely negate Stealth, it just limits the time you can be in it. There is enough time to land Stealth attacks while Marked so you really aren't locked out of anything.

All Marked does to Thieves in particular is force them to not Stealth stack/camp and wait to one shot spike people which is something no one enjoys experiencing. It does not prevent Thieves from using Stealth attacks and it does not completely disallow them from Stealthing all together, it just limits the time they can camp it.

If you want to compare Marked to how it effects Stealth you should be saying Marked does not allow Barrier because that is not a class specific mechanic but rather something two of them are dependent on and many others have access to. In this case however it would be a lot more harsh on a Scourge because they already lack mobility so this would literally take all form of defense from them.

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > Can we have watchtower and the revealed/mark debuff affect something from every classes trait/mechanic and call it a day? :)

> >

> > Alright, that means Thief doesn't get to use Steal while Marked then. Because that's their class mechanic, not Stealth.

>

> Cool, that means necro can't use shroud xd

So Scourge then

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> Can we have watchtower and the revealed/mark debuff affect something from every classes trait/mechanic and call it a day? :)

Alright, that means Thief doesn't get to use Steal while Marked then. Because that's their class mechanic, not Stealth.

* Mijo is my personal favorite. Although he no longer streams, and seemingly no longer uploads to Youtube, I've seen him play live and he is often in other streamer's matches _(like Boyce, Sindrener, Azza, etc.)_ where you can see him in action.

I rarely see other Necros doing things I can't do myself, but Mijo manages to pull things off that make the class look like something else entirely. **I don't think he is objectively the best Necro** but I do think he is one of the most impressive ones.

[ PvP division: Legendary + rank 3 winner]

* Holts is another very good Necro and long time content creator + streamer. Although I feel he is a little less "flashy", he is undoubtedly very skilled and one of the most frequent and articulate Reaper players.

[ PvP division: Legendary ]

* Hobo is a multi-classer and former Necro main. I don't know if he still considers himself a Necro main, but he does still play it, and plays it very well. He is extremely good at area denial, something I find a lot of Necros fail to do properly, and knows the optimal times to be defensive or aggressive.

[ PvP division: unknown _(my best guess would be Platinum 2/3)_ ]

* Wingmon Cherry is a member of [rawr], [Zen], and the Necro that Sindrener considers the best _(as he has said more than once in his streams)._ I _think_ he streams, but I don't know his channel, and he doesn't seem to have a Youtube. But having seen him play both with and against Sindrener, I certainly agree that he is very good. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any first person play so I can't really tell. I just take Sind's word for it because he is very knowledgeable and skilled himself, so I don't doubt that Wing is extremely good.

[ PvP division: Legendary + rank 1 winner ]

I think calling anyone the "best" at any class isn't a totally fair thing to say. Everyone brings something a little different to their class and some people are more consistent than others. There are absolutely players that could be considered better than others, but it gets to a point where the skill ceiling can't climb much higher and it starts becoming more about their decision making and what they bring as a teammate.

As has also been said already by @"KrHome.1920" many content creators cherry pick their content to make themselves look better than they are.

Acolyte of Malice

This is my hybrid Mace/Sword build that I've been using for some time now.

A little bit about the build;

* Low base Condition Damage but plenty high once a fight gets going. Most times you'll be between 1k and 1.5k which is more than enough for your Conditions to do some serious damage. You also have Yearning Empowerment and the runes which will give you 20% Condition Duration.

* Because the auto attacks on Mace are so quick you can very rapidly build Torment while also spiking people with high Power damage. Mace/Sword combo together very well and there are a lot of good set ups you can do. The one I most commonly use is- Shackling Wave-> Searing Fissure-> Legend Swap for Invoking Torment proc-> Echoing Eruption-> Death Strike.

* This build is all about aggression. You can stack a lot of Conditions quickly while still pressuring with Power damage, but you lose the evade from Unrelenting Assault and need to auto attack spam a little more frequently. Because it has base armor this also means you will need to be cautious about trading hits and will not have the defensive utility of Sword 3. Making people panic is what it is best at. You only have moderate damage on engage but will ramp up very quickly. You also have enough area pressure to force people in to expending defensive skills early. Just remember to boost your autos with Impossible Odds as often as you can and keep people stacked with Conditions so you can surprise them with Power spikes.

I literally never see anyone using Mace/Sword yet it feels so natural. Axe is a great hybrid weapon and I understand why it is the preferred pick, but with this particular set up I think Sword is objectively better. It has higher spike damage and a better Shadow Step that also grants Fury. It compliments Mace very nicely by allowing you to lock people down and stay in their faces where as Axe is more about a single hit Condition + Power spike that requires a set range.

I find it to handle all build types very well for some of the reasons I've outlined. It has so much hybrid pressure, area denial, and chase potential that often times people just straight up panic. Although it does suffer the usual weakness to Conditions that a Sword/Sword Herald might, it tends to also force said Condition builds in to being more defensive which means they won't be pressuring _you_ as much. As long as you stay aggressive most things won't be able to handle you.

Most streamers I watch don't give their builds any special names, it's just profession/elite + build, eg. "Firebrand build".

Personally I love thinking up names for things. It's not like it's necessary to give your builds unique names, but I find it fun to do so and it instantly helps me to remember what build is what. The way I come up with names for mine is by combining names of two traits that I'm using in the build. The traits themselves don't need to have any significance.

**Some examples of my build names;**

* Fear of Pain _(Fear of Death + Awaken the Pain)_

* Explosive Synergy _(Explosive Entrance + Cleansing Synergy)_

* Acolyte of Malice _(Acolyte of Torment + Seething Malice)_

* Demonic Shroud _(Demonic Lore + Harbinger Shroud)_

* Awaken the Souleater _(Awaken the Pain + Soul Eater)_

* Primal Knowledge _(Primal Reflexes + Wilderness Knowledge)_

* Serrated Edge _(Serrated Steel + Laser's Edge)_

How about you guys? Does anyone else give their builds special names? And if so, how do you think up the names?

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades.

> > > > I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth.

> > > > And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants.

> > > > Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;)

> > >

> > > Everyone gets marked yet not everyone relies on Stealth to survive,a thing you clearly arent understanding.

> >

> > Why is it that when ever there's a discussion about Stealth it's either- Stealth doesn't help to survive at all, everything can still hit you so it's useless! Or, Stealth is the only defense Thief has!

> >

> > Mind you, I suppose now that they can't run away as readily as before, the second argument is a bit more relevant.

> >

> > And as @"Gorani.7205" said,

> > > if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants.

> >

> > No one's forcing you to fight there. So don't, lol.

> >

> > Also I'm glad someone agrees with my perspective on it @"Gorani.7205"

>

> Thats the entire point,you know how large the radius is from those towers that takes away a large area where a thief doesnt wanna fight,where everyone else has no issue fighting in those spots because it doesnt hurt their core gameplay.

>

> I mean overall, i dont give a kitten because i know thief inside out since im playing it for years,i avoid fighting in those areas. Still doesnt take away the fact thats aimed to shut down 2 specs mainly,thief/mesm. I just think its an unfair mechanic. If aegis/invulns would be negated in those areas people would cry.

Boon rips/corrupts exist, as do Unblockables which are aplenty. And those things can be used anywhere.

I understand that Watch Tower is a crappy mechanic, and I hate it probably as much as you. I just plain disagree when Thieves complain about it _(and it seems to only ever be Thieves)_ because Stealth is not their only defense and Marked does not only effect them.

As I'd said in my other comment, I have played Thief and recently did. Being Marked was never an issue for me because I didn't play a Shadow Arts build or Deadeye, I played Critical Strikes/Deadly Arts/Trickery with Marauder/Valkyrie. The only time I needed to Stealth was to use Stealth attacks, and Marked allows you to do so for long enough to access those skills. So the rare times I was fighting while Marked, which did happen at least a few times, it wasn't an issue. I still had vertical mobility and instant teleports which was plenty enough to survive.

I suppose one could argue that it's different if you're playing a build that _does_ rely on Stealth, like a Shadow Arts build, but because said build(s) are such low risk in the first place I think it's pretty okay that there are areas on the map they'll be disadvantaged to fight in.

The only reason this complaint has any more validity now than it did before last week is because of the Shortbow nerf. Now your mobility is worse and if you're fighting while Marked you also can't use Stealth defensively. Still, my point stands that it does not only effect Thieves so players of the class just need to learn to respect the mechanic.

About me- I often roam on full zerk core Necro which is about as stupid and risky as it gets. I rely on "Stealth" too, the need to not be seen. Because if I get Marked at a bad time I'm going to get overwhelmed and I don't have the virtue of high mobility or additional evades like Thief does. I always take routes around objectives that won't Mark me and I only take Sentry's if I want a fight or if I know I'm unlikely to get ganked. Sentry's near keeps like the one at Lang, Bravost, Veloka, etc. I rarely try to take because I'll probably get attacked before I can flip it and I'll stay Marked for too long drawing too much attention.

See how that effects other classes too?

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > > > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > > > > > Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades.

> > > > > > I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth.

> > > > > > And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants.

> > > > > > Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;)

> > > > >

> > > > > Everyone gets marked yet not everyone relies on Stealth to survive,a thing you clearly arent understanding.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, Thief's don't complain about watchtowers and sentry's because they keep getting marked and killed. Both are easily avoidable by anyone paying attention. They complain because they can't get a kill right up to the tower door or couldn't chase someone because they were running towards a sentry. It is the biggest pointless complaint I have ever heard. Half the time if i'm looking for fights I get marked on purpose so they show up but yeah if you are dying because of a sentry and watchtower as a thief we can't help you.

> > >

> > > Where do you even see me complain or making a statement that i'm dying to it ?

> > >

> > > This forum,lmao.

> > >

> >

> > I didn't because no one does so the complaint is pointless. I said if you as in any thief not you personally. So when you personally say Not everyone relies on stealth to survive it infers that because of marked you don't survive because if you do survive then marked isn't a problem now is it?

>

> The complaint isnt pointless but its something you only understand if you actually Play the class yourself,which you dont.

I played Thief for 2 weeks recently. I was terrible with it, but I also got a folder full of big damage screen caps and never once died to or had any kind of problems with being Marked.

It actually never crossed my mind that a lot of players complain about it because I'm just used to picking the right times to take Sentries and taking the proper routes to avoid being Marked if I can't handle what responds to it. You know, the logical thing to do.

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Gorani.7205" said:

> > Everyone gets marked by Sentries and Watchtower upgrades.

> > I don't get the fuss Thief-main players make, like it denies them the ability to run around sentries in a bigger circle like everyone else (who roams on other professions) without the ability to stealth.

> > And sorry (IMHO), if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants.

> > Marked has nothing to do with the SB#5 initiative increase. Don't mix up correlation with causality. ;)

>

> Everyone gets marked yet not everyone relies on Stealth to survive,a thing you clearly arent understanding.

Why is it that when ever there's a discussion about Stealth it's either- Stealth doesn't help to survive at all, everything can still hit you so it's useless! Or, Stealth is the only defense Thief has!

Mind you, I suppose now that they can't run away as readily as before, the second argument is a bit more relevant.

And as @"Gorani.7205" said,

> if a thief players tries to ambush someone else right next to a tower with a gigantic rotating light on top, it is fair if he loses the advantage to stealth at will as long as he wants.

No one's forcing you to fight there. So don't, lol.

Also I'm glad someone agrees with my perspective on it @"Gorani.7205"

> @"KarlKael.1786" said:

> ok, I have to ask, what's on your "Antisocial" chat channel? XD

All channels turned off. Only thing I can see is Contacts signing in or out.

> @"FalconRN.6219" said:

> > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > Oh great you just made 150 WSR transfer again so another double full w/e link they chose inc again. An YB and DB is the biggest assemblage of bags in history. Hopefully they never get mag or 3.1 K/d ratio history will be made

>

> as a YB player and comander. i feel sad about that, because this link will put us t3/t2 or even t1 because of the numbers (PPT), but we will need to put other metric for our K/D mayve we will hit 0,000001 hahha.

>

I'm going to make some predictions;

DB/YB- T2/1

Mag/DR- T3/2

BG/ET- T1

DH/BP- T2/3

AR/FC- T1/2

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > I'm just sick of them because they're getting more and more popular and it is complete ape tier build. I feel pretty well the same about it as I do Signet core Necro and Condi Spellbreaker- it's only a problem in 1v1's so I doubt if it will be receiving nerfs any time soon.

> >

> > Said build(s) are of very little presence in team fights other than having enough durability to be good revive bots for their downed teammates. But they are so horrendously tanky and sustainable that they can kill the majority of builds in 1v1's just due to sheer attrition and nothing else.

> >

> > I'm not as annoyed by Immob Druid as OP, but I do agree that they're obnoxious, and Immobilize as a Condition needs to have some balancing reviews.

> > For Druid specifically, I think Ancient Seeds needs to be reworked in to something more valuable and less annoying. Either completely rework it or change it such that the Immobilize _only procs when the Ranger player delivers the CC._ Right now, Ancient Seeds will proc as long as the Ranger is hitting someone(s) that is CC'd regardless of whether they or their pet delivered that CC. That's why Barrage on a group can be such a pain when coming from a Druid.

> >

> > Also, I recommend having some Rune of the Revenant on hand for fighting this build. Use heal -> gain Resistance -> lol Immob. Can't Immob you again after you cleanse it if you're immune to it.

>

> Warrior main here. What is a condi spellbreaker? Pls enlighten me. I've heard of condi berserker but spb? Some new build?

I don't know the exact build, but I've fought quite a few. DB and BG have more than a couple of them and they're extremely obnoxious. Longbow + Sword/X. Very, very good sustain and moderate damage. They don't hurt a whole lot, similar to Signet Necro, but they just have so much armor, health, and regen that they're very difficult to pressure down.

I imagine it's something similar to this.

I'm just sick of them because they're getting more and more popular and it is complete ape tier build. I feel pretty well the same about it as I do Signet core Necro and Condi Spellbreaker- it's only a problem in 1v1's so I doubt if it will be receiving nerfs any time soon.

Said build(s) are of very little presence in team fights other than having enough durability to be good revive bots for their downed teammates. But they are so horrendously tanky and sustainable that they can kill the majority of builds in 1v1's just due to sheer attrition and nothing else.

I'm not as annoyed by Immob Druid as OP, but I do agree that they're obnoxious, and Immobilize as a Condition needs to have some balancing reviews.

For Druid specifically, I think Ancient Seeds needs to be reworked in to something more valuable and less annoying. Either completely rework it or change it such that the Immobilize _only procs when the Ranger player delivers the CC._ Right now, Ancient Seeds will proc as long as the Ranger is hitting someone(s) that is CC'd regardless of whether they or their pet delivered that CC. That's why Barrage on a group can be such a pain when coming from a Druid.

Also, I recommend having some Rune of the Revenant on hand for fighting this build. Use heal -> gain Resistance -> lol Immob. Can't Immob you again after you cleanse it if you're immune to it.

As long as Well of Corruption is still stripping the same amount of Boons, I'm content.



They'll be okay.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- Marked does not only affect Stealth and Thieves.

I agree however that the mechanic needs to be reworked, specifically Watch Tower.

Strictly talking roaming/small scale-

If I'm roaming on Warrior for example, I'm going to avoid getting Marked to the best of my ability. I can't Stealth so that doesn't matter, but I still don't want to be visible on the map. A Thief however doesn't care about being visible on the map. It's not about whether anyone knows where they are, it's that they can't Stealth to escape because they can pretty much ignore boundaries other classes wouldn't cross. No one wants to fight near a structure because they know; other players will show up and they'll get outnumbered, players can retreat inside, they can be hit by siege. Thieves don't care about that though because they have Stealth and enough mobility to leave before any of that happens.

All Marked does to Thieves is force them to play by the same rules as the rest of the classes- don't get Marked unless you have enough back up to deal with what responds to it.

I don't like Marked either because it makes roaming/small scale more punishing than fun. For people mad they can't Stealth when Marked it has nothing to do with people knowing where they are and getting outnumbered and everything to do with not being able to escape where if they were playing anything else they would die.

And I want to add a disclaimer here that I hate Tactics, passive upgrades, and tower campers, so I'm not defending this mechanic. I'm just making the point that now you know what it's like for everyone else who has to avoid fighting around half the areas on the map because it's not worth the risk.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > I'm just saying Moa isn't as good as you're saying it is and that really isn't an opinion.

> And I'm saying that supply drop isnt as good as you're saying and thats not really an opinion either. Oh I've fought engies when they where using supply drop against me too. Its been utterly useless for them every single time because I just walk away - I literally ignore the turrets. Meanwhile, a tornado can knock people around like ragdolls allowing my group to pump in damage and get downs (cleanse may be common, multiple stunbreaks arent), while a berserker give me the hp and stab to stomp (and leap + stuns to set up for blowtorch). Both are for offensive and defense use, not just kiting or running away. Thats a ridicculous statement.

>

> Also if you *do* use it kite/run away... mobility is a roamers mantra. Turrets are, unsurprisingly, not.

And this is why I said I didn't want to write a paragraph for it to be dismissed.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"schloumou.3982" said:

> Yet I still do fine against meta roamers for some reason. Can I beat all players I meet? No, that would be ridiculous regardless of any skill or build they are purported to have.

The point he and I are both making is that you are saying not taking Moa is a handicap when what it actually is is a gimmick. Like Gunflame Berserkers with Arms + Signets, it has potential to one shot but is otherwise very easily shut down because it has poor defenses. Most fights will not be in its favor whether team fight or 1v1. Same idea with core Engi and Moa. It isn't flexible.

You're better off taking Supply Crate because it will give you; a Smoke field for Stealth, a Cleanse _(x3)_ on drop, a Water field on drop, it will stun your target(s), and F5 is a huge Cleanse.

Elixir X gives you some mobility/CC which is usually reserved for running away/kiting, and Moa to meme people.

I feel like you misunderstand me, or maybe I misunderstand the tone of your responses, but I'm not saying "don't play it" or that I don't believe you can beat people with it. I'm just saying Moa isn't as good as you're saying it is and that really isn't an opinion.

Happening everywhere. Not sure why people are surprised, this is pretty common for patch days. I'm sure it'll be fixed within an hour or so.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> I guess you got what you wanted:

>

> Rune of the Golemancer: Adjusted the health of the summoned golem to be more in line with other rune summons.

Still meat shields which absorbs initial damage that would otherwise be hitting players.

They should have changed it such that player skills do not prioritize the Golems, meaning- a 5 target AOE on 5 Golems and 1 player will hit 4 Golems and 1 player. Or, a 5 target AOE on 5 players and 1 Golem will hit 5 players and 0 Golems.

Or just remove them entirely because at least IMO runes shouldn't summon pets, period.

EDIT:

I stand corrected _(maybe?)_ AOE's already prioritize players, which I learned via a Reddit thread on today's patch. I'm not sure this is entirely true however, but because I don't know for certain I'll just say I still stand by my opinion that runes shouldn't summon things.

Looks quite good to me. You definitely understand how to read traits and skills, so that's a good start.

I'll share two builds of mine and give you a little description for them.

**For zerging**

* You can replace Well of Darkness or Well of Suffering with; Spectral Armor, Spectral Walk, Well of Power, or "You Are All Weaklings!", it's up to you. Having at least one stunbreak is always a good idea, and personally I prefer to do so as well. I find using 3 Wells to be a bit too risky, but it is preferred from many commanders that you do so to have maximum damage while your support provides you Stability to avoid the need for stunbreaks.

* You can use Marauder over Berserker, but the more Berserker the better. You really don't need the additional crit chance, and you lose quite a bit of Power even if Might and being in Shroud provide plenty. If you're more comfortable with Marauder though, that's a good way to start, and you can work in more Berserker as you get more familiar with the class.

* Strength or Scholar, which ever you prefer. Eagle could also work, but as with Marauder, the extra crit chance really isn't necessary. You're likely to always have Fury while with a zerg and when you enter Shroud you'll have over 100% crit chance in full Berserker. With Eagle runes you'd be even more over capped, but they do provide a nice damage boost. Personally I prefer Strength runes because they have the most consistent and easy to maintain modifier and it's easier to stay stacked at 25 Might.

* You can take Axe/Focus over Staff if you prefer, it has an additional Boon rip that also deals heavy damage to low health targets, but you'll mostly be spamming 3 off cooldown if you do decide to take this _(and there's nothing wrong with that because I'd say objectively Axe is a slightly better choice than Staff strictly for the extra Boon hate)._ I feel Staff is also a good choice however because it's much safer to use at range, Putrid Mark is a great damage buffer to toss inside your Wells _(that can crit as high as 10k),_ and Reaper's Mark is great for Fearing backliners or tossing inside a Spellbreaker bubble.

**For roaming**

* You have a lot of flexibility with your utilities here and it's mostly up to you what you feel to work best. Personally, I think Spectral Walk is near mandatory and Flesh Wurm is very high value, but not as necessary. Both can allow for extremely clutch escape or kiting/juking and are important to your survival, but I wouldn't recommend taking Wurm over SWalk. Because there's so much CC in this game it is honestly not over doing it to take a full bar of stunbreaks.

* You can replace Greatsword with Staff, or even Axe/Focus with Staff, but I think GS + Axe/Focus is the best choice for the Boon hate, ranged pressure, and area denial. Staff + Axe/Focus is much better in PvP than WvW roaming, where as the Boon corrupt, pull, and Vuln stack damage spike that GS provides are all very strong and not as niche as what Staff will give you. I highly recommend taking Axe/Focus with what ever you decide to take in the second slot.

* Chill of Death is also a good choice over Awaken The Pain, but because it's single target I often prefer to take ATP. I think Chill of Death is objectively the better choice here though. You can also drop Soul Barbs for Fear of Death if you decide to take Spectral Ring and/or Staff as it will provide you with a bit more sustain, and Chilling Victory is also an okay choice, though I think Soul Eater is better in this case.

**A little more about the roaming build:**

I've been using that build for... Maybe nearly 2 years now? I haven't changed much about it other than swapping traits/utilities around from time to time depending on the situation, but the stat alignment has been the same this whole time. It has a good amount of armor and health to allow for trading, it's only slightly overcapped on crit chance _(which I don't mind because I won't always have Fury or be in Shroud when roaming),_ and basically zerker offensive stats while in Shroud without losing a whole lot while out of Shroud. It's well rounded, albeit not necessarily perfect, and doesn't waste too many stats. Some traits and utilities are more based on preference and circumstance while others are more mandatory, and the runes are pretty much necessary to stay roughly around 50% crit chance so I've never bothered to swap those out.

Reaper is generally a very user friendly spec. It has an extremely low skill floor and is pretty forgiving against "average" players. That said, as with Necro in general, it is also _extremely_ punishing against better players and very demanding of resource management and positioning. It may take you some time to adjust to the difference between Ele and Necro in that regard because Ele can recover much faster and more consistently than Necro, where as Necro is pretty much boned if it takes a bad hit.

**My rule of thumb with Necro is to always play as though the next hit will be the one that kills you, and to always be trying to make people commit to _you_ rather than you committing to _them._**

Anyway, good luck and I hope this helps some.

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> This OP is a prime example that the stars next to a poster is how often/much the post, not a measure of quality.

>

> Stars really should be changed to measure # of helpfuls, so people don't take posts like this seriously.

I stopped taking anything on these forums seriously years ago. And still should have started sooner than that. And I post here regularly, so I include myself as a part of that idiocy, I just like to talk.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take.

> Lol it is nowhere near that percentage. The clips I posted obviously have *some bias* for moments I found fun.

>

> Much of the time I use moa just because I *can*, not because I need. Even then for every fight I use moa there is 10+ where I dont.

>

> Besides, its no difference from other skills. Are warriors gimping themselves using rampage? Are rangers gimping themselves using entagle? Are heralds gimping themselves using chaotic release? Are guardians gimping themselves using renewed focus? Etc and so on.

I entirely disagree with that logic and I'm not going to write a paragraph about it to be dismissed when I already gave a valid reason.

But again, if you enjoy it that's great. Judging by the video I'm assuming the quality of players you face isn't very high, so it makes sense that you have more success than what I say.

So I recently learned that this skill has _a Power coefficient of 5.0_ which is farking insanity. I've known this skill could do a lot of damage for a long time, but because no one ever uses it, I didn't realize how much potential it had. Under the right circumstances a skill like that should be able to hit like... 30 - 35k?

Anyway, I put a build together that I'm going to try out next I'm out and about. I haven't yet made it in game, so if you have any experience using this trait, please let me know what it's like.

Build here.

It has plenty enough mobility to poke and hard kite people until it's the right time to burst, and A.E.D. ensures that if used properly health will be regained from the damage of Overheating. On paper it looks completely usable to me and only semi-meme tier. It has a major gimmick but it has enough options for defense and mobility that it can survive/escape if it needs to.

I'm very curious to try this and to know what other people have done with this trait, whether they made a similar build or something totally different.

**EDIT**

Okay I made the build in game and it was a mistake, LMAO.

I think the coefficient is nerfed in PvP/WvW? I'm not sure what the deal is but I seem to only crit 5 - 7k tops, so there must be something going on that I wasn't aware of.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > hard countered by pretty much any Necro build.

> Any build relying on boons is hard countered by necros but then again if you dont take elixir c to counter the condi bomb and elixir x (well moa) to counter shroud you are also gimping yourself vs necros so there's that.

I have 4 variants to the build I shared and still play with one of them also using Toolkit and X _(that I've linked below)._ Because your build is Condition it is more viable than mine as Power, but both have very low sustained damage and only a moderate burst. Half the fights you take will be determined by whether or not you land Moa which is why I reserve the Toolkit + X version for groups and trolling.

I feel you are gimping yourself by relying on a singular skill to secure 50%> of the fights you take.

Let's just say both of our builds are mediocre but have their strengths and call it even, lol.

It took a long time before I found and settled on another core Engi build after the February patch. I tried a _lot_ of different things and I'm 110% confident that the one I'm using with mostly Elixirs is versatile enough to win most fights, whether it's by sheer attrition or by punishing aggression. I also have multiple variants of the same build for different purposes;

* Version 2- roaming + team fight capable, higher burst, similar sustained damage.

* Version 3- weak roamer/good for zerg surfing, high sustained damage but risky, worse cleanse.

* Version 4- weak roamer/weak team fighter, good for memeing + hard sniping people in groups, good for general trolling.

Please don't take offense to any of this though because I also enjoy playing highly custom builds, I just want them to be strong enough to "compete", meaning the build can either stalemate or win against meta builds even if it's an uphill battle. Having tried something near identical to what you use, I don't feel it quite fits that criteria because it is too reliant on 2 skills, Blowtorch and Moa, to win most of its fights.

With that said, it can also completely delete people if you _do_ land Moa, and it can do so to pretty much anything you encounter if you do it properly.