Dantheman.3589 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to see the Video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Video I referenced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither of which come close to slapping a _thief_ as hard as it did in 2014. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That right there is a true skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Everyone** is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do [12k+]( ) backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs *without* assassins signet [Here]( ). Over 10k *with* assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do *less* damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent *any* stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its *really* bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was *proven entirely correctly*. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is *incredibly* bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, the 2 builds *are* comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build *far* more glassy and *far* more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely *actual* builds doing *realistic* damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, this is *still* in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both builds are burst builds that dont go completely glass cannon with no utility. They are 100% comparable. Now your build is a build that goes full glass cannon with no utility, and additionally uses an unrealistic out of combat scenario that in combat will not be achieved. Now this build is indeed *not* comparable. When we use the comparable builds, we see, clearly, that the old build does a whole lot more damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, this isnt at all surprising. If you look back, the only thing that happened to Thieves damage and its multipliers, is that they were *nerfed*. Quite significantly so. Backstab ate a 25% nerf. Lead Attacks have become much harder to have at 15% when bursting. Exposed Weakness became more conditional and usually worse. So how exactly do you think the damage wouldnt be worse, given that it was nerfed accross the board? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I only say people do that, when they objectively did do that. Though I think even you cant deny that you created this build to push damage as high as possible without any concern for its viability (or rather complete lack thereof), and that you created a scenario with no concern of how realistic (or rather not) it is. Then you tried to compare it to builds people actually used, in actual combat scenarios, and tried to act like its "as close to 1-1 as possible". What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again your argument is invalid, the build I presented had the same amount of utility as the one in 2014. In fact if u take into account the amulet it is tankier. ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant be bothered to search out the old traits, so let me just say this. Even if that were true, your build woefully fell short of theirs. Even under optimal, unrealistic conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It didn’t the one in the old thread was literally 1-1 ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, there is no "old thread". I dont know what cruel tricks your imagination played on you, but sadly that threat never existed. Whatever that thread you made up was. Second ,yeah it did. As I said, this isnt surprising. There is no way for the damage to not be lower, because Backstab does 25% less damage, and all damage amp traits are lower. Stats in PvP are also lower. So, how pray tell do you think the damage wouldnt be a lot lower now? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I agree there is no old thread was there is no one saying that damage was worse except your video of wvw which everyone knows is completely irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally the post above yours. Comparing the exact same build, exact same scenario, with the result that the damage back then was almost 30% higher. Damage was much higer back then. Damage now is much lower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I dont have a response, and he already called me out on my lying. I know, Ill just use a dismissive filler phrase". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, since I know he wont stop until someone removes any ambiguity (And, most likely, not even then), lets actually do a 1:1 comparision. Let's take [this]( ). Mostly, because he actually hits a light golem. Makes it easy. So, he he hits for 6k. He is using Marauders amulet, Rune of the Wurm, no sigils that amp damage (fire and air, to be precise), Deadly arts 2-2-1, Trickery 1-3-2 and Shadow arts 2-3-2 (the traits had their position shifted around since then, but you can see based on the icons that its these traits). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, he hits the Light Golem below 50%, so Executioners is active. So, whats the result when I, today, using the almost exact same build (I replaced fire and air, since we dont have those anymore, with 2 random sigils that dont amp the damage), hit the same light golem in the same scenario? Well, remember, he hit for 6k. I however, only hit for 4.3k. The damage is lower. Q.E.D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one in this thread is talking about that build ??? and it obviously a wvw build so it’s irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a WvW build using the sPvP amulet system and being used in sPvP. Wait what? I knew that even if you were proven wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt you would never accept it, but I didnt think you would go for such a bold-faced lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, theyre talking about damage in general. Here is the thing. Take *any* build from back then. Any one, choose whichever you want. And try to do damage with it now. Without fail, on *every single one*, you will get the same result. Damage back then was higher. Thats the point of the thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you have already said that even when proven wrong without any chance of doubt you will just lie and try to squirm out of admitting it, that I dont think there is any point in continuing this. Just try to learn to accept being wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your comparing an irrelevant wvw video to pvp number. Not only that you have proven without a doubt your arguement ??. Are u trying to prove the OP wrong through reverse psychology? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok nevermind, apparently youre back to lying. Yes, [this]( ) is totally a WvW video. See, he is playing on Skyhammer, a classic WvW map, and using the WvW stat system of Amulets. And yes, I have proven it without a shadow of a doubt. Mind you Im not trying to convince you, you have shown that hell will freeze over before you admit youre wrong, but still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you posted a second video getting higher numbers than your own and claim they are higher than mine ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said that these numbers, when used on the *exact same build* are higher than now. Sadly, noone used your build back then. Because its really, *really* bad. And noone tried to just get the highest numbers without concern for viability or realisticness, like you did. So we cant compare your numbers with an equivalent build. But if we could, the old build would hit much harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? your right becuz no one used the build back then. Stuff changes and there’s no point in running core dp with DA anymore and if u wanted something similar you would play exactly the core build I posted in thief forum or just go bound dp which unlike core would have a huge increase of dps while maintaining play style. > > > > > > > > > > No, you only play that build if you want to lose. Its really bad. > > > > > > > > > > > The bad is bad said a random thief who is 5 years behind u can just see that on streams I play core dp but only the way I mentioned because the other one is bad now, and I maintained top 3 so far this season with that so who are ppl to believe, even if the build was bad which again claimed a random dude claiming everyone made everything up and only he is right > > > > > > > > > > And yet noone else is playing it. And noone else will play it. Just like noone played the bad staff build you tried to make out as OP. Youve been consistently completely wrong with predicting what thief is played, and how. This will be no different. > > > > > > > > And yet the reality is that no one plays the build you mentioned if you really want a name and blame session I had a pretty useful report button > > > > > > Because that ... wasnt the point? The point was to show that damage now is a lot lower than it was pre-HOT. I did that by comparing the same build between now, and then. I chose that one because he showcased it on a light golem, which makes my job easier. > > > > Traits are different new elite specs almost everything is different so it doesn’t always work that way, you need to go with something similar that works. And again the dash dp no damage build isn’t a good idea either becuz it’s not bursty plus it’s daredevil so still not 1-1 > > The traits are actually the same. The only trait that had its functionality changed in a way that isnt just a nerf is flickering Shadows, but that one doesnt matter for damage. So, no thats a bad excuse. There isnt a good one btw. Its just a perfect comparision. Sides, people also did that, the result was also 4k, so even if it wasnt wrong anyway, itd be a moot point. And of course the dp dash build is a good idea. If you think being bursty is what makes thief good, you understand thief even less than we already knew. > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to see the Video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Video I referenced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither of which come close to slapping a _thief_ as hard as it did in 2014. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That right there is a true skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Everyone** is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do [12k+]( ) backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs *without* assassins signet [Here]( ). Over 10k *with* assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do *less* damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent *any* stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its *really* bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was *proven entirely correctly*. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is *incredibly* bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, the 2 builds *are* comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build *far* more glassy and *far* more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely *actual* builds doing *realistic* damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, this is *still* in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both builds are burst builds that dont go completely glass cannon with no utility. They are 100% comparable. Now your build is a build that goes full glass cannon with no utility, and additionally uses an unrealistic out of combat scenario that in combat will not be achieved. Now this build is indeed *not* comparable. When we use the comparable builds, we see, clearly, that the old build does a whole lot more damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, this isnt at all surprising. If you look back, the only thing that happened to Thieves damage and its multipliers, is that they were *nerfed*. Quite significantly so. Backstab ate a 25% nerf. Lead Attacks have become much harder to have at 15% when bursting. Exposed Weakness became more conditional and usually worse. So how exactly do you think the damage wouldnt be worse, given that it was nerfed accross the board? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I only say people do that, when they objectively did do that. Though I think even you cant deny that you created this build to push damage as high as possible without any concern for its viability (or rather complete lack thereof), and that you created a scenario with no concern of how realistic (or rather not) it is. Then you tried to compare it to builds people actually used, in actual combat scenarios, and tried to act like its "as close to 1-1 as possible". What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again your argument is invalid, the build I presented had the same amount of utility as the one in 2014. In fact if u take into account the amulet it is tankier. ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant be bothered to search out the old traits, so let me just say this. Even if that were true, your build woefully fell short of theirs. Even under optimal, unrealistic conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It didn’t the one in the old thread was literally 1-1 ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, there is no "old thread". I dont know what cruel tricks your imagination played on you, but sadly that threat never existed. Whatever that thread you made up was. Second ,yeah it did. As I said, this isnt surprising. There is no way for the damage to not be lower, because Backstab does 25% less damage, and all damage amp traits are lower. Stats in PvP are also lower. So, how pray tell do you think the damage wouldnt be a lot lower now? > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I agree there is no old thread was there is no one saying that damage was worse except your video of wvw which everyone knows is completely irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally the post above yours. Comparing the exact same build, exact same scenario, with the result that the damage back then was almost 30% higher. Damage was much higer back then. Damage now is much lower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I dont have a response, and he already called me out on my lying. I know, Ill just use a dismissive filler phrase". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, since I know he wont stop until someone removes any ambiguity (And, most likely, not even then), lets actually do a 1:1 comparision. Let's take [this]( ). Mostly, because he actually hits a light golem. Makes it easy. So, he he hits for 6k. He is using Marauders amulet, Rune of the Wurm, no sigils that amp damage (fire and air, to be precise), Deadly arts 2-2-1, Trickery 1-3-2 and Shadow arts 2-3-2 (the traits had their position shifted around since then, but you can see based on the icons that its these traits). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, he hits the Light Golem below 50%, so Executioners is active. So, whats the result when I, today, using the almost exact same build (I replaced fire and air, since we dont have those anymore, with 2 random sigils that dont amp the damage), hit the same light golem in the same scenario? Well, remember, he hit for 6k. I however, only hit for 4.3k. The damage is lower. Q.E.D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one in this thread is talking about that build ??? and it obviously a wvw build so it’s irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a WvW build using the sPvP amulet system and being used in sPvP. Wait what? I knew that even if you were proven wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt you would never accept it, but I didnt think you would go for such a bold-faced lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, theyre talking about damage in general. Here is the thing. Take *any* build from back then. Any one, choose whichever you want. And try to do damage with it now. Without fail, on *every single one*, you will get the same result. Damage back then was higher. Thats the point of the thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you have already said that even when proven wrong without any chance of doubt you will just lie and try to squirm out of admitting it, that I dont think there is any point in continuing this. Just try to learn to accept being wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your comparing an irrelevant wvw video to pvp number. Not only that you have proven without a doubt your arguement ??. Are u trying to prove the OP wrong through reverse psychology? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok nevermind, apparently youre back to lying. Yes, [this]( ) is totally a WvW video. See, he is playing on Skyhammer, a classic WvW map, and using the WvW stat system of Amulets. And yes, I have proven it without a shadow of a doubt. Mind you Im not trying to convince you, you have shown that hell will freeze over before you admit youre wrong, but still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you posted a second video getting higher numbers than your own and claim they are higher than mine ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said that these numbers, when used on the *exact same build* are higher than now. Sadly, noone used your build back then. Because its really, *really* bad. And noone tried to just get the highest numbers without concern for viability or realisticness, like you did. So we cant compare your numbers with an equivalent build. But if we could, the old build would hit much harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? your right becuz no one used the build back then. Stuff changes and there’s no point in running core dp with DA anymore and if u wanted something similar you would play exactly the core build I posted in thief forum or just go bound dp which unlike core would have a huge increase of dps while maintaining play style. > > > > > > > > > > No, you only play that build if you want to lose. Its really bad. > > > > > > > > > > > The bad is bad said a random thief who is 5 years behind u can just see that on streams I play core dp but only the way I mentioned because the other one is bad now, and I maintained top 3 so far this season with that so who are ppl to believe, even if the build was bad which again claimed a random dude claiming everyone made everything up and only he is right > > > > > > > > > > And yet noone else is playing it. And noone else will play it. Just like noone played the bad staff build you tried to make out as OP. Youve been consistently completely wrong with predicting what thief is played, and how. This will be no different. > > > > > > > > And yet the reality is that no one plays the build you mentioned if you really want a name and blame session I had a pretty useful report button > > > > > > Because that ... wasnt the point? The point was to show that damage now is a lot lower than it was pre-HOT. I did that by comparing the same build between now, and then. I chose that one because he showcased it on a light golem, which makes my job easier. > > > > Traits are different new elite specs almost everything is different so it doesn’t always work that way, you need to go with something similar that works. And again the dash dp no damage build isn’t a good idea either becuz it’s not bursty plus it’s daredevil so still not 1-1 > > The traits are actually the same. The only trait that had its functionality changed in a way that isnt just a nerf is flickering Shadows, but that one doesnt matter for damage. So, no thats a bad excuse. There isnt a good one btw. Its just a perfect comparision. Sides, people also did that, the result was also 4k, so even if it wasnt wrong anyway, itd be a moot point. And of course the dp dash build is a good idea. If you think being bursty is what makes thief good, you understand thief even less than we already knew. No your right I’ve been not nearly hard enough on the report button. Almost everything has been adjusted some traits are new like most of SA. The DA trait line atm is only even playable on dp burst builds for 1 thing - even the odds, while actually the first 2 top traits together in crits are very superior too and guess what even mug is so bad that nerfed bounding dodger alone can be more dps. There is no build to run the adjusted core dp build you present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to see the Video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Video I referenced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither of which come close to slapping a _thief_ as hard as it did in 2014. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That right there is a true skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Everyone** is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do [12k+]( ) backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs *without* assassins signet [Here]( ). Over 10k *with* assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do *less* damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent *any* stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its *really* bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was *proven entirely correctly*. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is *incredibly* bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, the 2 builds *are* comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build *far* more glassy and *far* more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely *actual* builds doing *realistic* damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, this is *still* in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both builds are burst builds that dont go completely glass cannon with no utility. They are 100% comparable. Now your build is a build that goes full glass cannon with no utility, and additionally uses an unrealistic out of combat scenario that in combat will not be achieved. Now this build is indeed *not* comparable. When we use the comparable builds, we see, clearly, that the old build does a whole lot more damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, this isnt at all surprising. If you look back, the only thing that happened to Thieves damage and its multipliers, is that they were *nerfed*. Quite significantly so. Backstab ate a 25% nerf. Lead Attacks have become much harder to have at 15% when bursting. Exposed Weakness became more conditional and usually worse. So how exactly do you think the damage wouldnt be worse, given that it was nerfed accross the board? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I only say people do that, when they objectively did do that. Though I think even you cant deny that you created this build to push damage as high as possible without any concern for its viability (or rather complete lack thereof), and that you created a scenario with no concern of how realistic (or rather not) it is. Then you tried to compare it to builds people actually used, in actual combat scenarios, and tried to act like its "as close to 1-1 as possible". What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again your argument is invalid, the build I presented had the same amount of utility as the one in 2014. In fact if u take into account the amulet it is tankier. ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant be bothered to search out the old traits, so let me just say this. Even if that were true, your build woefully fell short of theirs. Even under optimal, unrealistic conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It didn’t the one in the old thread was literally 1-1 ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, there is no "old thread". I dont know what cruel tricks your imagination played on you, but sadly that threat never existed. Whatever that thread you made up was. Second ,yeah it did. As I said, this isnt surprising. There is no way for the damage to not be lower, because Backstab does 25% less damage, and all damage amp traits are lower. Stats in PvP are also lower. So, how pray tell do you think the damage wouldnt be a lot lower now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I agree there is no old thread was there is no one saying that damage was worse except your video of wvw which everyone knows is completely irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally the post above yours. Comparing the exact same build, exact same scenario, with the result that the damage back then was almost 30% higher. Damage was much higer back then. Damage now is much lower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I dont have a response, and he already called me out on my lying. I know, Ill just use a dismissive filler phrase". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, since I know he wont stop until someone removes any ambiguity (And, most likely, not even then), lets actually do a 1:1 comparision. Let's take [this]( ). Mostly, because he actually hits a light golem. Makes it easy. So, he he hits for 6k. He is using Marauders amulet, Rune of the Wurm, no sigils that amp damage (fire and air, to be precise), Deadly arts 2-2-1, Trickery 1-3-2 and Shadow arts 2-3-2 (the traits had their position shifted around since then, but you can see based on the icons that its these traits). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, he hits the Light Golem below 50%, so Executioners is active. So, whats the result when I, today, using the almost exact same build (I replaced fire and air, since we dont have those anymore, with 2 random sigils that dont amp the damage), hit the same light golem in the same scenario? Well, remember, he hit for 6k. I however, only hit for 4.3k. The damage is lower. Q.E.D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one in this thread is talking about that build ??? and it obviously a wvw build so it’s irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a WvW build using the sPvP amulet system and being used in sPvP. Wait what? I knew that even if you were proven wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt you would never accept it, but I didnt think you would go for such a bold-faced lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, theyre talking about damage in general. Here is the thing. Take *any* build from back then. Any one, choose whichever you want. And try to do damage with it now. Without fail, on *every single one*, you will get the same result. Damage back then was higher. Thats the point of the thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you have already said that even when proven wrong without any chance of doubt you will just lie and try to squirm out of admitting it, that I dont think there is any point in continuing this. Just try to learn to accept being wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your comparing an irrelevant wvw video to pvp number. Not only that you have proven without a doubt your arguement ??. Are u trying to prove the OP wrong through reverse psychology? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok nevermind, apparently youre back to lying. Yes, [this]( ) is totally a WvW video. See, he is playing on Skyhammer, a classic WvW map, and using the WvW stat system of Amulets. And yes, I have proven it without a shadow of a doubt. Mind you Im not trying to convince you, you have shown that hell will freeze over before you admit youre wrong, but still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you posted a second video getting higher numbers than your own and claim they are higher than mine ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said that these numbers, when used on the *exact same build* are higher than now. Sadly, noone used your build back then. Because its really, *really* bad. And noone tried to just get the highest numbers without concern for viability or realisticness, like you did. So we cant compare your numbers with an equivalent build. But if we could, the old build would hit much harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? your right becuz no one used the build back then. Stuff changes and there’s no point in running core dp with DA anymore and if u wanted something similar you would play exactly the core build I posted in thief forum or just go bound dp which unlike core would have a huge increase of dps while maintaining play style. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you only play that build if you want to lose. Its really bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bad is bad said a random thief who is 5 years behind u can just see that on streams I play core dp but only the way I mentioned because the other one is bad now, and I maintained top 3 so far this season with that so who are ppl to believe, even if the build was bad which again claimed a random dude claiming everyone made everything up and only he is right > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet noone else is playing it. And noone else will play it. Just like noone played the bad staff build you tried to make out as OP. Youve been consistently completely wrong with predicting what thief is played, and how. This will be no different. > > > > > > > > > > And yet the reality is that no one plays the build you mentioned if you really want a name and blame session I had a pretty useful report button > > > > > > > > Because that ... wasnt the point? The point was to show that damage now is a lot lower than it was pre-HOT. I did that by comparing the same build between now, and then. I chose that one because he showcased it on a light golem, which makes my job easier. > > > > > > Traits are different new elite specs almost everything is different so it doesn’t always work that way, you need to go with something similar that works. And again the dash dp no damage build isn’t a good idea either becuz it’s not bursty plus it’s daredevil so still not 1-1 > > > > The traits are actually the same. The only trait that had its functionality changed in a way that isnt just a nerf is flickering Shadows, but that one doesnt matter for damage. So, no thats a bad excuse. There isnt a good one btw. Its just a perfect comparision. Sides, people also did that, the result was also 4k, so even if it wasnt wrong anyway, itd be a moot point. And of course the dp dash build is a good idea. If you think being bursty is what makes thief good, you understand thief even less than we already knew. > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to see the Video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: Nevermind, I found it in the Thief subsection for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I KNOW right? But if there's any specific profession you'd like me to dig up and compare it to modern footage of said profession on the same or at least similar stats I'm happy to attempt to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ye, Ranger, good luck with that one =D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2014 No Might 4.8k Maul, medium armor target. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020 No Might 3.2k Maul Medium Golem, light golem 4,001 damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Video I referenced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither of which come close to slapping a _thief_ as hard as it did in 2014. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: MORE Post 2020 patch damage numbers, crits on Berserker's amulet no might. Still don't compare. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well for one you aren’t even playing soulbeast right as you aren’t merged with your pet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I play an actually very tanky version of Gs soul beast and just walk up to golem like you did I get 4K and if I decided play an actually decent maul build again still playing tanky amulet I’m actually getting 6k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So your wrong the base line mauls are at least the same and again just like before the builds now do WAY more damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's amazing how you're talking about getting 1,000,000 damage back stabs and you can't post a single screen shot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That right there is a true skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You asked for proof heres some on the zerker amulet u like some much but keep in mind u can play same thing with valk+ hidden killer- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thief build does x2 what you claimed was the ceiling rn just walking up to a golem, which isnt always the best in a match but the best you will ever get can be higher, and still does quiet a bit more of what you claimed was in a period of time that actually had a lower damage ceiling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have odd definitions for "just walking up to a golem". Stacking up lead attacks, depleting your dodge, all over the course of 5+ seconds.> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correction > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because some people who clearly don't deserve the paycheck they're getting can't read, my thread was tossed into the trash bin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So to isolate this topic into a more easily digestible form; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Everyone** is doing less DPS overall compared to what their professions with the same stat set did back in Pre-Heart of Thorns. Damage and burst are significantly lower overall than it has ever been in game, even compared to the "slow" Core-GW2 era. And if you want and ask for it I can post video evidence of a Vanilla Guild Wars 2 class and a class now and show how much more damage the Vanilla class does with the exact same stat type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not just the cases for every class or the game in general, which I thought you’d know that becuz I’m pretty sure you even made a post in the thief sub forum- where thief’s in 2014 could hit at most 8k on backstab whilst now we can hit 9k on golems which means it could go up even higher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, were talking pre-HOT. Thief could do [12k+]( ) backstabs pre-HOT. You can also see Thief getting 9k backstabs *without* assassins signet [Here]( ). Over 10k *with* assassins signet. So no, the claim of the OP is pretty much right. Damage now is lower than pre-HOT times. Despite the fact that tankiness is also higher. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No my definition isn’t wrong becuz the op has literally asked me to do that as he didn’t seem to think damage modifiers like lead attacks exist. Also the op isnt right becuz all his examples were just wrong. What I showed actually had a chance of getting 12k in a match where guess what the link you provided was wvw where rn you would probably get like 15k on backstab, so wth is even your point? That I am OP?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it wasnt. Because you cant find a lot of people from back then doing specific out of combat damage stacking for maximum backstabs. Just actual backstabs they got in game. And no, what you showed could only do *less* damage in a match, not more. A lot less, in fact. And no, in WvW the damage doesnt get much higher either. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: forgot to mention that in the previous thread I tested it already w/o stacking lead attacks or more than 1 dodge and the damage was already x2 higher than he said was even possible rn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using a bad build noone uses, that will fail to achieve what you want it to achieve in an actual game, but yes. Point is, its still less than it used to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems your op is wrong as there’s no point in comparing 2 thief builds that aren’t 1v1. The reality is it was a post about the thief meta which is why its in the thief forum now. Also saying hitting a light golem won’t happen in a match is against the ops claims that it will be also wvw is full op stealth 1 shots rn. And the build I originally present, which was actually pretty 1-1 and go look in the thief forum is a perfectly fine build and guess what is comparable where as SA DrD isn’t since it’s a bad build damage wise where as the core build wasn’t > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, Im not sure what youre talking about, this post is still in the pvp forum. And his point was just that damage now is lower than pre-HOT, which it is. And no, its not the "hitting a light golem" that wont happen, its the "stacking lead attacks, havoc mastery and conditions on the enemy, then walking past them as they sit still to get a backstab" that wont happen. Or hitting for 12k. And, uh, Im sorry, but youre like several months out of date, there arent *any* stealth 1 shots in WvW anymore. Not even on glass cannon builds. And no, the build youre presenting, as most of your builds tend to be, is not fine. Its bad. Its *really* bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The op already tried to make these claims comparing Sa DrD with core in 2014 which was disproven when pulling to light an actually comparable core build atm which had the exact same numbers he had now. The op is just further proven wrong now that he brings ranger into the argument as a fairly tanky version of soulbeast pulls the same maul damage, while even somewhat glass, which he is comparing, build pulls up much much higher levels of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, actually, it wasnt disproven. It was *proven entirely correctly*. He showed SA DrD and compared it to a comparable build from back then, and showed the build from back then doing far more damage. You then, disliking this fact and not wanting to skip an opportunity to attack thief again, created a bad full glass cannon no utility build and maximised its damage by doing a whole song and dance that isnt realistic within combat and compared it to the damage from builds that were in fact not full glass cannon no utility builds. But instead builds running the Shadow Arts of old. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just wow. You think shadow arts DrD damage is comparable to a build, which by the way doesn’t use the same shadow arts and is much more specced for damage. While guess what an actually usable core build atm get the same numbers. I’m speechless to the amount of disinformation being presented in these threads ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 12k one didnt use Shadow Arts. It did however use Acrobatics. But I digress. However, the other one, which still did more damage, did in fact use Shadow Arts. Also, are you saying that SA/DrD, the meta version of D/P is bad and that your glass cannon build is "actually usable". Your glass cannon build that is *incredibly* bad and is played by absolutely noone? And you accuse others of misinformation? The only one spreading misinformation is you when you engineer builds noone used, scenarios that arent realistic, all in a desperate attempt to make it seem like damage back then wasnt higher, and that thief does a lot more damage than it actually does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your argument is unusable as u seem to think 2 incomparable builds proves anything when compared and again that was why it was moved to the thief forum because it’s a thief meta concern. If u compare 2 builds that are even close 1-1 as I did you would find out that thief damage is generally about the same, not to mention how elite specializations can bring much much greater damage reducing your and the op topic to mere disinformation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, the 2 builds *are* comparable. Your build is the one that isnt comparable. The build we used is as close to 1-1. You, however, didnt like that, so you created a build *far* more glassy and *far* more focused on maximising damage (to the point of even doing that song and dance I mentioned that isnt at all realistic) just to try and get close to that old damage (and only close). Knowing that its unlikely any of us could find an equivalent attempt from back then, as people back then didnt create an unrealistic build and scenario to push up damage as high as possible, but merely *actual* builds doing *realistic* damage. Also I hate that I keep having you to remind of your own thing, but you used Daredevil. You used an Elite Specialisation when trying to push up that damage, and you maximised it. It still wasnt as high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, this is *still* in the PvP forum, not the thief forum. Bit of an odd thing to lie about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? the 2 builds aren’t even meant to be close in damage and therefore aren’t comparable, but then again you think ppl are fabricating builds, videos and numbers to prove not even your own point is false > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both builds are burst builds that dont go completely glass cannon with no utility. They are 100% comparable. Now your build is a build that goes full glass cannon with no utility, and additionally uses an unrealistic out of combat scenario that in combat will not be achieved. Now this build is indeed *not* comparable. When we use the comparable builds, we see, clearly, that the old build does a whole lot more damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, this isnt at all surprising. If you look back, the only thing that happened to Thieves damage and its multipliers, is that they were *nerfed*. Quite significantly so. Backstab ate a 25% nerf. Lead Attacks have become much harder to have at 15% when bursting. Exposed Weakness became more conditional and usually worse. So how exactly do you think the damage wouldnt be worse, given that it was nerfed accross the board? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I only say people do that, when they objectively did do that. Though I think even you cant deny that you created this build to push damage as high as possible without any concern for its viability (or rather complete lack thereof), and that you created a scenario with no concern of how realistic (or rather not) it is. Then you tried to compare it to builds people actually used, in actual combat scenarios, and tried to act like its "as close to 1-1 as possible". What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again your argument is invalid, the build I presented had the same amount of utility as the one in 2014. In fact if u take into account the amulet it is tankier. ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant be bothered to search out the old traits, so let me just say this. Even if that were true, your build woefully fell short of theirs. Even under optimal, unrealistic conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It didn’t the one in the old thread was literally 1-1 ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, there is no "old thread". I dont know what cruel tricks your imagination played on you, but sadly that threat never existed. Whatever that thread you made up was. Second ,yeah it did. As I said, this isnt surprising. There is no way for the damage to not be lower, because Backstab does 25% less damage, and all damage amp traits are lower. Stats in PvP are also lower. So, how pray tell do you think the damage wouldnt be a lot lower now? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I agree there is no old thread was there is no one saying that damage was worse except your video of wvw which everyone knows is completely irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Literally the post above yours. Comparing the exact same build, exact same scenario, with the result that the damage back then was almost 30% higher. Damage was much higer back then. Damage now is much lower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "I dont have a response, and he already called me out on my lying. I know, Ill just use a dismissive filler phrase". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, since I know he wont stop until someone removes any ambiguity (And, most likely, not even then), lets actually do a 1:1 comparision. Let's take [this]( ). Mostly, because he actually hits a light golem. Makes it easy. So, he he hits for 6k. He is using Marauders amulet, Rune of the Wurm, no sigils that amp damage (fire and air, to be precise), Deadly arts 2-2-1, Trickery 1-3-2 and Shadow arts 2-3-2 (the traits had their position shifted around since then, but you can see based on the icons that its these traits). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, he hits the Light Golem below 50%, so Executioners is active. So, whats the result when I, today, using the almost exact same build (I replaced fire and air, since we dont have those anymore, with 2 random sigils that dont amp the damage), hit the same light golem in the same scenario? Well, remember, he hit for 6k. I however, only hit for 4.3k. The damage is lower. Q.E.D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one in this thread is talking about that build ??? and it obviously a wvw build so it’s irrelevant ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a WvW build using the sPvP amulet system and being used in sPvP. Wait what? I knew that even if you were proven wrong beyond the shadow of a doubt you would never accept it, but I didnt think you would go for such a bold-faced lie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, theyre talking about damage in general. Here is the thing. Take *any* build from back then. Any one, choose whichever you want. And try to do damage with it now. Without fail, on *every single one*, you will get the same result. Damage back then was higher. Thats the point of the thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But you have already said that even when proven wrong without any chance of doubt you will just lie and try to squirm out of admitting it, that I dont think there is any point in continuing this. Just try to learn to accept being wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your comparing an irrelevant wvw video to pvp number. Not only that you have proven without a doubt your arguement ??. Are u trying to prove the OP wrong through reverse psychology? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok nevermind, apparently youre back to lying. Yes, [this]( ) is totally a WvW video. See, he is playing on Skyhammer, a classic WvW map, and using the WvW stat system of Amulets. And yes, I have proven it without a shadow of a doubt. Mind you Im not trying to convince you, you have shown that hell will freeze over before you admit youre wrong, but still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok you posted a second video getting higher numbers than your own and claim they are higher than mine ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said that these numbers, when used on the *exact same build* are higher than now. Sadly, noone used your build back then. Because its really, *really* bad. And noone tried to just get the highest numbers without concern for viability or realisticness, like you did. So we cant compare your numbers with an equivalent build. But if we could, the old build would hit much harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? your right becuz no one used the build back then. Stuff changes and there’s no point in running core dp with DA anymore and if u wanted something similar you would play exactly the core build I posted in thief forum or just go bound dp which unlike core would have a huge increase of dps while maintaining play style. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you only play that build if you want to lose. Its really bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The bad is bad said a random thief who is 5 years behind u can just see that on streams I play core dp but only the way I mentioned because the other one is bad now, and I maintained top 3 so far this season with that so who are ppl to believe, even if the build was bad which again claimed a random dude claiming everyone made everything up and only he is right > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet noone else is playing it. And noone else will play it. Just like noone played the bad staff build you tried to make out as OP. Youve been consistently completely wrong with predicting what thief is played, and how. This will be no different. > > > > > > > > > > And yet the reality is that no one plays the build you mentioned if you really want a name and blame session I had a pretty useful report button > > > > > > > > Because that ... wasnt the point? The point was to show that damage now is a lot lower than it was pre-HOT. I did that by comparing the same build between now, and then. I chose that one because he showcased it on a light golem, which makes my job easier. > > > > > > Traits are different new elite specs almost everything is different so it doesn’t always work that way, you need to go with something similar that works. And again the dash dp no damage build isn’t a good idea either becuz it’s not bursty plus it’s daredevil so still not 1-1 > > > > The traits are actually the same. The only trait that had its functionality changed in a way that isnt just a nerf is flickering Shadows, but that one doesnt matter for damage. So, no thats a bad excuse. There isnt a good one btw. Its just a perfect comparision. Sides, people also did that, the result was also 4k, so even if it wasnt wrong anyway, itd be a moot point. And of course the dp dash build is a good idea. If you think being bursty is what makes thief good, you understand thief even less than we already knew. > > No your right I’ve been not nearly hard enough on the report button. Almost everything has been adjusted some traits are new like most of SA. The DA trait line atm is only even playable on dp burst builds for 1 thing - even the odds, while actually the first 2 top traits together in crits are very superior too and guess what even mug is so bad that nerfed bounding dodger alone can be more dps. > There is no build to run the adjusted core dp build you present I know you dont care, the truth is just a starting point to drape more lies upon to you, but no, none of the traits have been changed in a way that isnt a nerf. Let me go over in detail for you. Just to ensure there is no ambiguity and you cant get your way out without lying again. Deadly Arts. Serpents Touch. Unchanged. Mug, nerfed, but functionally unchanged. Lotus Poison, unchanged. Panic Strike, nerfed, but functionally unchanged. Exposed Weakness, nerfed but functionally unchanged. Executioner, unchanged. Nothing so far. Trickery. Kleptomaniac, Thrill of the Crime, Preparedness, Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand, unchanged. Lead attacks, functionality changed to make it do less damage in burst. However, still has the same base functionality. Still nothing. Shadow Arts. Not that it matters, no Shadow Arts trait ever increased damage, buuut, Embrace and Shadows Rejuvination, unchanged. Flickering shadows, I was actually slightly wrong. The one they were using was Shadow Protector. Grants regen when applying stealth. Not relevant for damage. Major was changed from the old Flickering Shadows to what we got now, yadda yadda. Point is, nothing changed in terms of damage functionality. The build got weaker (everything did), but it didnt really change. Yes, deadly arts is a lot worse. Thats part of the whole "damage got reduced by a lot" thing thats going on. It still doesnt mean critical strikes, or Bound, are playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Almost everything in that post is wrong. Da has multiple new traits serpents touch, potent poison(which was even misnamed), exposed weakness, thrill of the crime, bountiful theft also many other traits in those lines and even more in others have been changed and also including complete reworks to SA DrD and De. At this points it obvious to anyone who watch thief over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Again another false post and at this point it should be amazing clear to any thief players. There are 3 new traits in DA in fact very new and reworked multiple time, poison application was changed, exposed weakness not nerfed but changed in functionality fairly recently, mug changed in functionality improv changed in functionality multiple time and lots of number changes. Also trickery has many number changes some even back and forth recently, not to many many large overhauls back and forth for conditions. Also again another thief that most thief’s in the games already know complete reworks to SA, DrD and De. These are all facts, just looking at recently the least nerfed/reworked traitline is Crit Strikes with 1 reworked skill and pretty much nothing on their already barely existent icds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > Again another false post and at this point it should be amazing clear to any thief players. There are 3 new traits in DA in fact very new and reworked multiple time, poison application was changed, exposed weakness not nerfed but changed in functionality fairly recently, mug changed in functionality improv changed in functionality multiple time and lots of number changes. Also trickery has many number changes some even back and forth recently, not to many many large overhauls back and forth for conditions. Also again another thief that most thief’s in the games already know complete reworks to SA, DrD and De. These are all facts, just looking at recently the least nerfed/reworked traitline is Crit Strikes with 1 reworked skill and pretty much nothing on their already barely existent icds There are 2. Deadly Ambition, and Even the Odds. You can tell by the colour, they lack the deeper red shade towards the bottom. None of the traits used in that build however were reworked. Yes, poison application was removed from Dagger Training. Doesnt matter for the build, it didnt run Dagger Training. Exposed Weakness was effectively nerfed. It breaks even on 5 condis, you dont apply 5 condis. Mug didnt change in functionality. It was only nerfed. Improv was changed, but the build didnt use it. And yes, the traits were nerfed. But theyre still the same traits as before. Just weaker. Which is the point, its the same as before, just weaker. I dont know who youre trying to impress with your base level thief knowledge that is completely irrelevant here, but you mistaking Lotus Poison for Potent Poison (I assume thats the one you mistook) kinda makes it a moot point anyway. Anyway, DrD and DE werent used by that build (obviously), SA was used, but only 3 traits they used were changed, and none of them mattered for damage. So congratulations, you tried really hard to obfuscate the fact that youre wrong, but it aint working. And Im sorry, but the only thing clear to thief players is that you havent got the foggiest clue about thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Again and it’s really very sad that I have to point this out but a skill given lower numbers can be considered a nerf while guess what a change in how it works is a change in functionality and again almost everything in that post was wrong and any thief player that pays attention to thief and the forum sadly has seen this and this notorious actually vastly notorious personality as incorrect for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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