bravan.3876 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? Actually current Condimirage works without using any Mirage specific condi applications, also not the ones from clones. They do not even use IH and they also do not waste time to use their own ambush on axe. The whole condi application comes from core skills and combos (shatters and weapons, except of axe 2 and 3 ofc what could also be replaced by a core weapon like scepter). Removing most of the condi dmg from ambushes and give it more effect/ utility purpose to create the need and incentive to dodge pure offensive to apply effects like immob or daze well timed is the way to go here. That solves the problem with the dodge while stunned ability (which was/ is only broken on Condimirage due the wrong designed and op in dmg condi clone ambushes and autoattacks from clones) and it solves the problem with the too passive playstyle because just pure defensive dodging and defensive playing while clones do all the job will not be possible anymore. How many condi dmg on Mesmers own ambush and on clones can be balanced post patch with 2 dodges can be fine adjusted. But looking at current condi dmg it doesn't need to be that much. Also it will be no problem to then fine adjust also power ambushes based on 2 dodges if needed. Balance changes i would do **based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back** are: 1. The direct dmg from the Mesmers own gs ambush should be reduced and the might/vuln stacks should be reduced a very little bit too (less than the direct dmg and not that much, that offensive dodging gets worthless). IF NEEDED (that Daishi does not kill me) 2. Illusionary ambush (actually the whole retargeting mechanic, means for axe 3 only an evade and port to target but no retargeting anymore) should be deleted completely actually, what ofc will not happen. At least IA should get a 50+s cd. 3. Signet of Illusion should not include the reset of f4 anymore, not only because of Mirage (what clearly has the best synergy to it) but because it is in general too strong, also on core, to have an utility literally half the cd of an complete invuln skill. It should have excluded f4 since game release. It can get a little cd decrease (5-10s less cd) and a little bit shorter casttime as compensation (that Odik will not kill me). 4. Condi ambushes should get reworked to not add remarkable condi dmg anymore instead should be more about utility effects the player needs to time well and different from pure defensive dodges to get enough reward out of them. (My suggestions for condi ambush rework see below). A Mirage not timing ambush rewards (from his own but also clone ambushes with IH) for active and tactical outplays well, should have less impact than a core Mesmer, that counts for power and condi style. 5. Normal clone autoattacks should lose all condi dmg (except for one pseudo hit like on power weapons). If needed you can move some of the lost condi dmg back to shatters again. 6. IH should be considered to be a minor trait, a Mirage without IH feels like a core with only some passive mistake cover and a too strong instant dodge added. Without IH there is barely any skill ceiling added to the spec balance out the strong features the spec has from MC. Major GM traits should be reworked based on IH being baseline (i made some suggestion for how GM traits could look like then, i will not add it again, if someone insist i would search and copy paste my old posts here). 7. Mantra of Pain should be reworked to a non dmg Mantra (means rly zero dmg). The best way would be to turn it into a boon remove or other utility Mantra instead the selfbuff for oneshots nature it still has. The face your target requirement from Mantras can be deleted after that (ofc Mantras still should not hit when obstructed). 8. PU only gives one second additional stealth when traited, for that the boon duration of the conditions get increased. Random Aegis proc gets deleted, instead the Mesmer gets a thoughness bonus (or 30-40% dmg reduction buff) for 1-2 seconds after dropping out of stealth. 9. Either Chaosline gets reworked into something less passive and higher skill ceiling or at least reduce vigor duration from BD. 10. Sword ambush could (should?) lose the clone generation on the Mesmers own ambush. That would be the ideal way to balance Mirage to a balanced post patch state lvl but without killing skill ceiling (even adding tons of it) and without contradicting the inherent costs the spec has implemented since pof release. Without dumbing down the general dodgemanagement by only one dodge bar forcing to spam dodges on cd and without contradicting the whole spec mechanic and doom it to be more passive than before on power and just as passive as before on condi when using IH. According to Anet not having the ressources to add that much effort and work into good balance you just can ignore Nr. 6 if too much work (but EM should be reduced to only one condi remove instead 2 when Mirage has 2 dodges again). Reworking condi ambushes meanwhile is rly not that much of work and every condi dmg it loses can be compensated by number tweaks in PvE to make it not useless for PvE content because of too less dmg. For the condi ambushes how they could be reworked: > @"bravan.3876" said: > As said they should be less about dmg more about effects/ utility giving incentive and the need to time them different from pure defensive dodges to make tactical active on purpose outplays possible and needed to play it at maximum potential. Sword and GS are good examples for that. There are different possibilities. > - Scepter should be changed in general to have only one hit, not mulitple projectiles. Instead dmg it could provide a 1/2 sec immob on an well animated projectile with balanced travel speed and cast time (comparable to Engi rifle immob skill), while clones get a weaker version of 1/4 or 1/8 immob on hit. That can be comboed before going for a scepter 3 cast to secure it will hit a good part of the cast before the target can dodge without using a condi remove. It would fit to the weaponstyle and give incentives to combo with other weapon- and shatter skills. Another possibility would be chill or cripple (here maybe with a bit of condi dmg on the Mesmers own ambush in addition because those 2 utlitiy condis are weaker than immob). > - Axe could get a boni to condition dmg stat for x seconds (not too long, comparable to the might/ vulnstack duration on gs, means short only to prepare a burst not to make a perma debuff that would be passive again), aside from a low dmg application on the Mesmers own ambush, while clones get the weaker version of only stacking condi dmg stat boni (no condi application by themself) for a short duration. That would give the incentive and need to combo ambushes to prepare an axe 3 shatter burst. Other posibility would be to add a more utilitiy based non dmg condi just like i descibed for scepter before. > - Staff ambush could get a boni in terms of condition duration for x seconds (weaker version on clones, no dmg on clones) on the ambush aside from a low dmg application only on the Mesmers ambush. Alternative adding a non dmg utility condition that fits the staff playstyle or some defensive effect as Quadox suggested (maybe not reflect considering Mesmer already has such a dodge trait). > > If Anet will be rly that crazy to add a second trade off to Mirage (like they did to Daredevil already) in addition to the one it has since PoF relseas and in addition to all the inherent costs this spec already has with well designed ambushes, then deleting normal clone autoattack condi dmg could be the trade off. Even though it is a change i would do in general also for core. A second trade off on top of the nonsense one dodge overnerf would be a disaster. But with Anet and their cluelessness about Mesmer class it seems possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndina.7984 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I got an solution, instead nerfing already fucked classes...you actually learn to play your own class instead of screaming for nerfs? Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. So let me get this straight... players like me are the reason this game is inbalanced because we ask for slight buffs to already underperforming classes, yet you not only aren't bringing any sort of usefull addition to the topic, but now you are also demanding this same underperforming spec to be nerfed beyond unplayable? LMAO, I get why you keep crayons around kido... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"pninak.1069" said: > it isn't really a condi bunker. sure I use to kite myself and let clones do the attacks yes, but most of the damage still comes from direct damage on top of the conditions. clones don't get longer condi duration during scepter ambush in fact their condi duration is halfed. and if you look up the condi ambushes themslves you gonna see that scepter is a 50/50 chance between torment a condition which will atleast do constant dmg vs confusion which condi dmg is halfed for players already. However. since I got one dodge left only I have to spend it when I need it the most vs using it for offensive purpose. otherwise I have to pick up mirrors and use distortion in order to barely last longer in fight. > > pretty much staff has the best ambush available, but it doesn't have a block and is bad for clone generation. and scepter is bad without faster attack speed. > > Make a comparion between a 100% burn fb and soulbeast. I am sure soulbeast dps will be higher even if you count in all the fire stacks fb has. > > And I am aware that a lot of people blame distortion while at the same time overlooking that other classes got their emergency buttons aswell. Well I agree, personally i've never seen a problem with the** current **design of condi mirage, but **tons **of other people do, and those people are cry babies, like @"ArlAlt.1630" so as I see it right now, if mesmers are willing to be playable again, we should sacrifice some stuff that in their dumb eyes makes us "overpowered", because otherwise they will continue to cry and cry and make noise until anet deletes the class, and as i've read multiple times in this forums the two things that make them cry more than anything else is the ability to deal damage through IH and the dodge while stunned ability. Both things I belive we can live without, yet if people insist enough maybe after this changes they could work on more fair, condi application only coming out of the real mesmer. I actually don't know the state and viability of that fire build i've been talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > from his post history i assume he is mesmer main, so he already enjoys chrono :D, and since he made post to whine about it he enjoys chrono ALOT. I used to love chrono, the only thing I would rework is the f5 so you can no longer make double bursts, because that was broken as hell, and ofc I agree with any other mesmer around that the removal of IP left the spec completely worthless, and forced every chrono out there to either take mirage, go back core or quit the game. I used power mirage builds a bit but got so bored about combat since pof I later left the game. > this right there is him take the last bullet mesmer has and shooting himself in the foot with it. Now this I couldn't understand even after reading it 20 times, care to explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"kraai.7265" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > > > from his post history i assume he is mesmer main, so he already enjoys chrono :D, and since he made post to whine about it he enjoys chrono ALOT. > > > I used to love chrono, the only thing I would rework is the f5 so you can no longer make double bursts, because that was broken as hell, and ofc I agree with any other mesmer around that the removal of IP left the spec completely worthless, and forced every chrono out there to either take mirage, go back core or quit the game. I used power mirage builds a bit but got so bored about combat since pof I later left the game. > > > this right there is him take the last bullet mesmer has and shooting himself in the foot with it. > > Now this I couldn't understand even after reading it 20 times, care to explain? you wanna nerf the last good thing mesmer has lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET! > > > > > > > > @ArenaNet > > > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered? > > > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy: > > > > Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell. > > I think the main issues with mesmer in general are: > 1. Mindwrack can still do 12K in 2 hits after being in stealth and even then some more outside stealth > 2. For mirage specifically, the clones get evade frames > 3. Clones can get aegis > 4. Clones can actually take 3-4 hits to kill, instead of one, and that's with Demo/Maurauder/Berserker amulets. > 5. Clones persist indefinitely. > > Those are the main issues I have with mesmer. I want them to not rely so much on their clones and on super bursts to be effective in combat. 1 - Not even close. 9,5k and I'm stretching it, zerker+full offensive oneshot build+ 25 vulnerability + 15 might, if both mind wrack crit, on light golem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET! > > > > > > > > > > @ArenaNet > > > > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered? > > > > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy: > > > > > > Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell. > > > > I think the main issues with mesmer in general are: > > 1. Mindwrack can still do 12K in 2 hits after being in stealth and even then some more outside stealth > > 2. For mirage specifically, the clones get evade frames > > 3. Clones can get aegis > > 4. Clones can actually take 3-4 hits to kill, instead of one, and that's with Demo/Maurauder/Berserker amulets. > > 5. Clones persist indefinitely. > > > > Those are the main issues I have with mesmer. I want them to not rely so much on their clones and on super bursts to be effective in combat. > > 1 - Not even close. 9,5k and I'm stretching it, zerker+full offensive oneshot build+ 25 vulnerability + 15 might, if both mind wrack crit, on light golem nah, its possible to land 12k on light target with no toughness, but its gotta be glass cannon zerker+complex+not casting+scholar+25vuln+might+2x dmg sigils. hit light golem, got about 13-14k hits. But it does not hold up in real fights, when protection exists, toughness exists, most builds start taking 50% hp in a combo at best, and if you dont get a drop on them it tickles, it relies on vuln too much to do any sustained damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET! > > > > > > > > > > > > @ArenaNet > > > > > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered? > > > > > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy: > > > > > > > > Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell. > > > > > > I think the main issues with mesmer in general are: > > > 1. Mindwrack can still do 12K in 2 hits after being in stealth and even then some more outside stealth > > > 2. For mirage specifically, the clones get evade frames > > > 3. Clones can get aegis > > > 4. Clones can actually take 3-4 hits to kill, instead of one, and that's with Demo/Maurauder/Berserker amulets. > > > 5. Clones persist indefinitely. > > > > > > Those are the main issues I have with mesmer. I want them to not rely so much on their clones and on super bursts to be effective in combat. > > > > 1 - Not even close. 9,5k and I'm stretching it, zerker+full offensive oneshot build+ 25 vulnerability + 15 might, if both mind wrack crit, on light golem > > nah, its possible to land 12k on light target with no toughness, but its gotta be glass cannon zerker+complex+not casting+scholar+25vuln+might+2x dmg sigils. > hit light golem, got about 13-14k hits. > But it does not hold up in real fights, when protection exists, toughness exists, most builds start taking 50% hp in a combo at best, and if you dont get a drop on them it tickles, it relies on vuln too much to do any sustained damage. So realistic just as this one. Warranted proof DH should be smitersbooned from existence imo  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted April 15, 2020 Author Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"kraai.7265" said: > > @"pninak.1069" said: > > it isn't really a condi bunker. sure I use to kite myself and let clones do the attacks yes, but most of the damage still comes from direct damage on top of the conditions. clones don't get longer condi duration during scepter ambush in fact their condi duration is halfed. and if you look up the condi ambushes themslves you gonna see that scepter is a 50/50 chance between torment a condition which will atleast do constant dmg vs confusion which condi dmg is halfed for players already. However. since I got one dodge left only I have to spend it when I need it the most vs using it for offensive purpose. otherwise I have to pick up mirrors and use distortion in order to barely last longer in fight. > > > > pretty much staff has the best ambush available, but it doesn't have a block and is bad for clone generation. and scepter is bad without faster attack speed. > > > > Make a comparion between a 100% burn fb and soulbeast. I am sure soulbeast dps will be higher even if you count in all the fire stacks fb has. > > > > And I am aware that a lot of people blame distortion while at the same time overlooking that other classes got their emergency buttons aswell. > > Well I agree, personally i've never seen a problem with the** current **design of condi mirage, but **tons **of other people do, and those people are cry babies, like @"ArlAlt.1630" so as I see it right now, if mesmers are willing to be playable again, we should sacrifice some stuff that in their dumb eyes makes us "overpowered", because otherwise they will continue to cry and cry and make noise until anet deletes the class, and as i've read multiple times in this forums the two things that make them cry more than anything else is the ability to deal damage through IH and the dodge while stunned ability. Both things I belive we can live without, yet if people insist enough maybe after this changes they could work on more fair, condi application only coming out of the real mesmer. I actually don't know the state and viability of that fire build i've been talking about. > @"kraai.7265" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > > > from his post history i assume he is mesmer main, so he already enjoys chrono :D, and since he made post to whine about it he enjoys chrono ALOT. > > > I used to love chrono, the only thing I would rework is the f5 so you can no longer make double bursts, because that was broken as hell, and ofc I agree with any other mesmer around that the removal of IP left the spec completely worthless, and forced every chrono out there to either take mirage, go back core or quit the game. I used power mirage builds a bit but got so bored about combat since pof I later left the game. > > > this right there is him take the last bullet mesmer has and shooting himself in the foot with it. > > Now this I couldn't understand even after reading it 20 times, care to explain? I don't know what to tell you, man. You much like A LOT of people responding here have fallen victim to not reading or understanding the thread or its purpose. I could explain it, but I'm not here to hold your hand. Furthermore you contradict yourself, when @"Leonidrex.5649" called you out on it, you were asking him to explain it, where it's you that should explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I've been quietly following this thread since the beginning, and now I guess I'll condemn myself to permanent notifications from it to say: How did an ironic meme thread about the biggest meme class in the game become a siren call for remaining mesmer haters to crawl out of the woodwork, and turn this into an unironic discussion about further nerfing an already overnerfed class? Only when it comes to mesmer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > > > > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > > > > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > > > > > from his post history i assume he is mesmer main, so he already enjoys chrono :D, and since he made post to whine about it he enjoys chrono ALOT. > > > > > > I used to love chrono, the only thing I would rework is the f5 so you can no longer make double bursts, because that was broken as hell, and ofc I agree with any other mesmer around that the removal of IP left the spec completely worthless, and forced every chrono out there to either take mirage, go back core or quit the game. I used power mirage builds a bit but got so bored about combat since pof I later left the game. > > > > > this right there is him take the last bullet mesmer has and shooting himself in the foot with it. > > > > Now this I couldn't understand even after reading it 20 times, care to explain? > > you wanna nerf the last good thing mesmer has lol No no, I wish to undo the chrono rework, but i'd change that double burst capacity to keep other classes happy, and because it was really op, maybe make it so CS won't refresh f1 and f2 skills cooldowns. This will leave chrono as it was before, with the ability to use double veil, portal, gravity well, and every other skill as it used to, also it will be able to dry shatter as before (shatter with no clones) but they won't be able to burst you twice in a split second from stealth. About mirage I already explained 3 times what I would do cmon man go and read it won't hurt you. I'm shocked about how people reply some posts and comments reading only the last 2 sentences of the last comment without even reading the whole topic or opinions. It cuts everything out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"pninak.1069" said: > > > it isn't really a condi bunker. sure I use to kite myself and let clones do the attacks yes, but most of the damage still comes from direct damage on top of the conditions. clones don't get longer condi duration during scepter ambush in fact their condi duration is halfed. and if you look up the condi ambushes themslves you gonna see that scepter is a 50/50 chance between torment a condition which will atleast do constant dmg vs confusion which condi dmg is halfed for players already. However. since I got one dodge left only I have to spend it when I need it the most vs using it for offensive purpose. otherwise I have to pick up mirrors and use distortion in order to barely last longer in fight. > > > > > > pretty much staff has the best ambush available, but it doesn't have a block and is bad for clone generation. and scepter is bad without faster attack speed. > > > > > > Make a comparion between a 100% burn fb and soulbeast. I am sure soulbeast dps will be higher even if you count in all the fire stacks fb has. > > > > > > And I am aware that a lot of people blame distortion while at the same time overlooking that other classes got their emergency buttons aswell. > > > > Well I agree, personally i've never seen a problem with the** current **design of condi mirage, but **tons **of other people do, and those people are cry babies, like @"ArlAlt.1630" so as I see it right now, if mesmers are willing to be playable again, we should sacrifice some stuff that in their dumb eyes makes us "overpowered", because otherwise they will continue to cry and cry and make noise until anet deletes the class, and as i've read multiple times in this forums the two things that make them cry more than anything else is the ability to deal damage through IH and the dodge while stunned ability. Both things I belive we can live without, yet if people insist enough maybe after this changes they could work on more fair, condi application only coming out of the real mesmer. I actually don't know the state and viability of that fire build i've been talking about. > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > > > > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > > > > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > > > > > from his post history i assume he is mesmer main, so he already enjoys chrono :D, and since he made post to whine about it he enjoys chrono ALOT. > > > > > > I used to love chrono, the only thing I would rework is the f5 so you can no longer make double bursts, because that was broken as hell, and ofc I agree with any other mesmer around that the removal of IP left the spec completely worthless, and forced every chrono out there to either take mirage, go back core or quit the game. I used power mirage builds a bit but got so bored about combat since pof I later left the game. > > > > > this right there is him take the last bullet mesmer has and shooting himself in the foot with it. > > > > Now this I couldn't understand even after reading it 20 times, care to explain? > > I don't know what to tell you, man. You much like A LOT of people responding here have fallen victim to not reading or understanding the thread or its purpose. Lol, leon didn't call me out on anything, he read just a few sentences, took everything out of context, didn't even really took the time to think about my ideas, yet he joined the discussion. > I could explain it, but I'm not here to hold your hand. Furthermore you contradict yourself, when @"Leonidrex.5649" called you out on it, you were asking him to explain it, where it's you that should explain. I asked him to explain that last sentence because it was so badly written I couldn't understand what he was sayng, now that he clarified and also exposed he just read 2 sentences and not my whole idea, I already explained him what I meant with my ideas of what we can do with chrono and mirage, now if he did read my whole idea and thinks that what keep mesmers relevant is the current abuse of IH or the dodge while stunned effect, then i'm sure it's a l2p issue because mesmers got tons of other resources that could work even with no buffs. The only thing I think I didn't understand is if this is a troll post from a fellow mesmer, if that is the case good job you got me on this one xD, but if this is not a troll post and you are really asking for more nerfs to a already destroyed class then i'm guessing you are one of those players who thinks the only way to be a better player is by nerfing everything you have problems dealing with. > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. By the way I just realized you might think i'm another troll who hates mesmers, boy, i've played mesmer for 4 years straight, non stop, in every game mode, specially wvw, and pvp, I left the game after what they did to chrono, I'm still waiting for anet to do something smart for once, yet no reply from them, with the changes i've presented, my intent is to keep mesmer viable, not to destroy it, it's already destroyed, but the problem is people think mesmer with no IH condi spam or dodge while stunned is not viable, and thats ridiculous, mesmer has many more tools, not so overpowered but still viable, but players stick to what's broken and tend to forget everything else. Guess what, none other class got the ability to dodge while stunned, and they work, and before mesmers got IH they were viable too, even after the release of pof, no one used IH, the reason why people started using it was because of the exhaust effect added. Thats why I think your boy @"Leonidrex.5649" should l2p with several builds, styles and skills first and then ask for buffs/nerfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"kraai.7265" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > @"pninak.1069" said: > > > > it isn't really a condi bunker. sure I use to kite myself and let clones do the attacks yes, but most of the damage still comes from direct damage on top of the conditions. clones don't get longer condi duration during scepter ambush in fact their condi duration is halfed. and if you look up the condi ambushes themslves you gonna see that scepter is a 50/50 chance between torment a condition which will atleast do constant dmg vs confusion which condi dmg is halfed for players already. However. since I got one dodge left only I have to spend it when I need it the most vs using it for offensive purpose. otherwise I have to pick up mirrors and use distortion in order to barely last longer in fight. > > > > > > > > pretty much staff has the best ambush available, but it doesn't have a block and is bad for clone generation. and scepter is bad without faster attack speed. > > > > > > > > Make a comparion between a 100% burn fb and soulbeast. I am sure soulbeast dps will be higher even if you count in all the fire stacks fb has. > > > > > > > > And I am aware that a lot of people blame distortion while at the same time overlooking that other classes got their emergency buttons aswell. > > > > > > Well I agree, personally i've never seen a problem with the** current **design of condi mirage, but **tons **of other people do, and those people are cry babies, like @"ArlAlt.1630" so as I see it right now, if mesmers are willing to be playable again, we should sacrifice some stuff that in their dumb eyes makes us "overpowered", because otherwise they will continue to cry and cry and make noise until anet deletes the class, and as i've read multiple times in this forums the two things that make them cry more than anything else is the ability to deal damage through IH and the dodge while stunned ability. Both things I belive we can live without, yet if people insist enough maybe after this changes they could work on more fair, condi application only coming out of the real mesmer. I actually don't know the state and viability of that fire build i've been talking about. > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > > > > > > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > > > > > > > from his post history i assume he is mesmer main, so he already enjoys chrono :D, and since he made post to whine about it he enjoys chrono ALOT. > > > > > > > > > I used to love chrono, the only thing I would rework is the f5 so you can no longer make double bursts, because that was broken as hell, and ofc I agree with any other mesmer around that the removal of IP left the spec completely worthless, and forced every chrono out there to either take mirage, go back core or quit the game. I used power mirage builds a bit but got so bored about combat since pof I later left the game. > > > > > > > this right there is him take the last bullet mesmer has and shooting himself in the foot with it. > > > > > > Now this I couldn't understand even after reading it 20 times, care to explain? > > > > I don't know what to tell you, man. You much like A LOT of people responding here have fallen victim to not reading or understanding the thread or its purpose. > > Lol, leon didn't call me out on anything, he read just a few sentences, took everything out of context, didn't even really took the time to think about my ideas, yet he joined the discussion. > > > I could explain it, but I'm not here to hold your hand. Furthermore you contradict yourself, when @"Leonidrex.5649" called you out on it, you were asking him to explain it, where it's you that should explain. > > I asked him to explain that last sentence because it was so badly written I couldn't understand what he was sayng, now that he clarified and also exposed he just read 2 sentences and not my whole idea, I already explained him what I meant with my ideas of what we can do with chrono and mirage, now if he did read my whole idea and thinks that what keep mesmers relevant is the current abuse of IH or the dodge while stunned effect, then i'm sure it's a l2p issue because mesmers got tons of other resources that could work even with no buffs. > > The only thing I think I didn't understand is if this is a troll post from a fellow mesmer, if that is the case good job you got me on this one xD, but if this is not a troll post and you are really asking for more nerfs to a already destroyed class then i'm guessing you are one of those players who thinks the only way to be a better player is by nerfing everything you have problems dealing with. > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > By the way I just realized you might think i'm another troll who hates mesmers, boy, i've played mesmer for 4 years straight, non stop, in every game mode, specially wvw, and pvp, I left the game after what they did to chrono, I'm still waiting for anet to do something smart for once, yet no reply from them, with the changes i've presented, my intent is to keep mesmer viable, not to destroy it, it's already destroyed, but the problem is people think mesmer with no IH condi spam or dodge while stunned is not viable, and thats ridiculous, mesmer has many more tools, not so overpowered but still viable, but players stick to what's broken and tend to forget everything else. Guess what, none other class got the ability to dodge while stunned, and they work, and before mesmers got IH they were viable too, even after the release of pof, no one used IH, the reason why people started using it was because of the exhaust effect added. > Thats why I think your boy @"Leonidrex.5649" should l2p with several builds, styles and skills first and then ask for buffs/nerfs chrono before IP changes wasnt played, it could double burst but it still wasnt played, any half decent thief made the build almost useless and that combined with insane skill ceiling and frustrating gameplay made the build never played, I personally saw maybe 2 power chronos in plat through all my gameplay, much more after nerfs due to people meming with chrono. IH is one of the only good things mesmer has remaining, your idea was to nerf mirage cloak, nerf IH and nerf EM, how can we take you seriously lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > @"pninak.1069" said: > > > > > it isn't really a condi bunker. sure I use to kite myself and let clones do the attacks yes, but most of the damage still comes from direct damage on top of the conditions. clones don't get longer condi duration during scepter ambush in fact their condi duration is halfed. and if you look up the condi ambushes themslves you gonna see that scepter is a 50/50 chance between torment a condition which will atleast do constant dmg vs confusion which condi dmg is halfed for players already. However. since I got one dodge left only I have to spend it when I need it the most vs using it for offensive purpose. otherwise I have to pick up mirrors and use distortion in order to barely last longer in fight. > > > > > > > > > > pretty much staff has the best ambush available, but it doesn't have a block and is bad for clone generation. and scepter is bad without faster attack speed. > > > > > > > > > > Make a comparion between a 100% burn fb and soulbeast. I am sure soulbeast dps will be higher even if you count in all the fire stacks fb has. > > > > > > > > > > And I am aware that a lot of people blame distortion while at the same time overlooking that other classes got their emergency buttons aswell. > > > > > > > > Well I agree, personally i've never seen a problem with the** current **design of condi mirage, but **tons **of other people do, and those people are cry babies, like @"ArlAlt.1630" so as I see it right now, if mesmers are willing to be playable again, we should sacrifice some stuff that in their dumb eyes makes us "overpowered", because otherwise they will continue to cry and cry and make noise until anet deletes the class, and as i've read multiple times in this forums the two things that make them cry more than anything else is the ability to deal damage through IH and the dodge while stunned ability. Both things I belive we can live without, yet if people insist enough maybe after this changes they could work on more fair, condi application only coming out of the real mesmer. I actually don't know the state and viability of that fire build i've been talking about. > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > > > > > > > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > > > > > > > > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As soon as they make all steatlh sources last 2 secs and are not stackable and as soon as they make warr not able to dodge. kk? :smiley: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I forgot, ranger needs to lose 50% dmg to compensate for having a pet. And Necro needs to have half HP while Life Force is above 50% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" You and people like you, are the reason this game's balance is in such poor state. Hope you're proud of yourselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kitten are you even talking about? have you even read the whole idea? giving back two dodges and exhaustion is how it worked before, and what made people stay away from EM to favor IH, yet IH became way to strong in condi builds. You blame me about poor state yet you only critcize others ppl opinions to add nothing usefel to the conversation... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason your suggestion is silly, is because if you remove the clone condi, without rebalancing Mirage personal ambush to compensate, you effectively kill all meaningful condi application on the class, since ANET has been nerfing all sources just to avoid nerfing IH itself. So what you're proposing is give back the dodge, while taking out whatever meaningful damage is left, unless power. One look at Mirage balance decisions since PoF launch shows you that ANET envisions the e-spec as a condi spec. However if your suggestion is implemented, the only way Mirage will be playable will be with full on Power builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is that a good enough explanation for you, or do I need to go get some crayons? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats the problem dude, people don't even aknowledge the damage a condi mirage alone can do, remember back when mirages bursted down people in 3 seconds with condi? they were using torch builds, and applying fire, confusion, bleeding, etc were only a cover up, to make people waste cleanses, but people got really used to beeing able to kite all the way into safe spots while clones do all the damage for them, thats lazy and lame. And thats why people defend IH as an offensive mechanic. So don't talk to me about poor state of balance, because thats one of the main reasons, people unwilling to let go what "makes them strong" atm. Remove the offensive application and condi mirages will go back to fire burst builds or condi bunker builds, people will have nothing to complain about, and mesmers will be able to be a bit viable again. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > > > > > > > > > from his post history i assume he is mesmer main, so he already enjoys chrono :D, and since he made post to whine about it he enjoys chrono ALOT. > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to love chrono, the only thing I would rework is the f5 so you can no longer make double bursts, because that was broken as hell, and ofc I agree with any other mesmer around that the removal of IP left the spec completely worthless, and forced every chrono out there to either take mirage, go back core or quit the game. I used power mirage builds a bit but got so bored about combat since pof I later left the game. > > > > > > > > > this right there is him take the last bullet mesmer has and shooting himself in the foot with it. > > > > > > > > Now this I couldn't understand even after reading it 20 times, care to explain? > > > > > > I don't know what to tell you, man. You much like A LOT of people responding here have fallen victim to not reading or understanding the thread or its purpose. > > > > Lol, leon didn't call me out on anything, he read just a few sentences, took everything out of context, didn't even really took the time to think about my ideas, yet he joined the discussion. > > > > > I could explain it, but I'm not here to hold your hand. Furthermore you contradict yourself, when @"Leonidrex.5649" called you out on it, you were asking him to explain it, where it's you that should explain. > > > > I asked him to explain that last sentence because it was so badly written I couldn't understand what he was sayng, now that he clarified and also exposed he just read 2 sentences and not my whole idea, I already explained him what I meant with my ideas of what we can do with chrono and mirage, now if he did read my whole idea and thinks that what keep mesmers relevant is the current abuse of IH or the dodge while stunned effect, then i'm sure it's a l2p issue because mesmers got tons of other resources that could work even with no buffs. > > > > The only thing I think I didn't understand is if this is a troll post from a fellow mesmer, if that is the case good job you got me on this one xD, but if this is not a troll post and you are really asking for more nerfs to a already destroyed class then i'm guessing you are one of those players who thinks the only way to be a better player is by nerfing everything you have problems dealing with. > > > > > You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I hope your class gets Chronoed so you can come off your high horse and tell us how it's all fair. > > > > By the way I just realized you might think i'm another troll who hates mesmers, boy, i've played mesmer for 4 years straight, non stop, in every game mode, specially wvw, and pvp, I left the game after what they did to chrono, I'm still waiting for anet to do something smart for once, yet no reply from them, with the changes i've presented, my intent is to keep mesmer viable, not to destroy it, it's already destroyed, but the problem is people think mesmer with no IH condi spam or dodge while stunned is not viable, and thats ridiculous, mesmer has many more tools, not so overpowered but still viable, but players stick to what's broken and tend to forget everything else. Guess what, none other class got the ability to dodge while stunned, and they work, and before mesmers got IH they were viable too, even after the release of pof, no one used IH, the reason why people started using it was because of the exhaust effect added. > > Thats why I think your boy @"Leonidrex.5649" should l2p with several builds, styles and skills first and then ask for buffs/nerfs > > chrono before IP changes wasnt played, it could double burst but it still wasnt played, any half decent thief made the build almost useless and that combined with insane skill ceiling and frustrating gameplay made the build never played, I personally saw maybe 2 power chronos in plat through all my gameplay, much more after nerfs due to people meming with chrono. > IH is one of the only good things mesmer has remaining, your idea was to nerf mirage cloak, nerf IH and nerf EM, how can we take you seriously lol Simple, get your head out of that narrowed meta mentality, and stop bandwagoning opinons with everyone else, just think, neither of the other classes have mirage cloak, it's a skill that doesn't make sense, it helps players who made a mistake to not suffer punishment, leading to tedious carebare gaemplay. We don't need it, and it creates tons of forum drama (the same drama anet takes in when thinking how to nerf or destroy "annoying" classes) infinite horizon also it's an unnecessary skill, if you read a bit, you will see I already explained that condi mirage was strong because of fire application before it was nerfed, every other condi skill was used to cover those fire stacks, and make enemies waste cleanses, guess which ambush skill applies fire... none! Now are you really going to tell me, mirages don't have any other source of condi skills to do the same job? So if you remove IH then condi mirage will be completely useless? when did you start playng mesmer? after july 2019? cmon man... Another example of the lack of reading skills you are dealing with, you only mention nerfs, never say anything about giving back the second dodge, or how IH could still be usefull even without the condi applications, I used to run a power build, with healing power, kind of an offtank build, strictly power based, guess which was one of my best resources to engage without beeing spotted, or flee a lost fight... IH, did I use it for condi? nope... also I memed at a certain point a fire burst build, guess which skill killed enemies... ambushes? nope, torch skills... all of this in plat 2, last year, after I came back before I couldn't find a better game. And I used the stunbreak on dodge at that time because it was better for my build. And about chrono, it was a side comment, but since we are on topic, chrono was not as popular thats true, but thats because mirage is insanely easier to use, like every other stupid pof spec, not because chrono was irrelevant, on the contrary, people who kept using chrono found out it was one of the strongest specs to run against pof specs, you want proof from other players than me? Go check lugolix on youtube, chrono main, cake walk player, a freaking beast, had some duels with him/her and it was insane how skilled he was. You won't belive it because you are another meta fanatic, but he used to kill thieves too!! I think the poor guy/girl left the game after IP change. And about the skill cieling, it might surprise you but some players love that, love to have a gigantic skill cieling, specially in a game with horizontal progression. Having high skill cieling on almost every class is a must, because if every class is easy af to use the game becomes boring after a few months, a philosphy the new anet threw out the window when releasing pof, I don't get why you asume every other mesmer shared the problem you have with the "frustrating gameplay" actually I became frustrated for the first time with that spec after they removed IP, never had troubles before, even while learning the insane combos you can make with some skills and f5. Seriously every time you reply with all those airs of superiority, I see more and more evidence of how your complains and demands of not nerfing x or leaving y untouched are actually l2p issues from someone who is scared to lose the last unfair thing their spec got. Me on the contrary I'd give it all away to make the game more fair, and mesmers relevant again. Because I prefer to play a regular class that struggles like anyone else, than playing a boring af completely broken class just to feel the king of the hill, even when it feels as the class goes on auto play as condi mirage felt on release. And before you say something stupid like "oh but you want to nerf those things from mesmer but not change what makes other classes unfair" I'll tell you, we are arguing about mesmers here, thats a discussion for other subforum, and I tend to not talk about other classes, specially asking for nerfs because thats exactly what caused mesmers to be excluded from the game via nerf after nerf. People complaining about shit they didn't fully understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pninak.1069 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 from my experience in wvw it is mostly that peopel lose 1/4 of life before the shatter hits them. conditions hardly last. torch is a utility weapon and not one for pure dmg. it is used as a condi cleanse while at the same time providing minimal amount of stealth and an aoe daze with confusion and burn. for both burns to hit you need to be in melee range. However my biggest condi dmg package comes from scepter 2 block. But I think peopel should use the wiki more. there you can look literally everything up. and gw2 build editor will you show how the skills gonna develop with different gear. btw don't trust kill breakdown data. similiar to gw1 you got issue that healing is ignored. so during long zerg fights you will accumualate hundred thousands of burn stacks which immediatly cleared leading to breakdown showing still the dmg done. In gw1 you didn't have a breakdown, but the effects showing up on the side. so sometimes you would die with 47 times of one effect of a skill, because the fight lasted so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > Hi, IMO > > > > Step 1: Restore the second dodge. > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability dodge while stunned. > > > > Step 2: Remove the ability to apply condis from clones. > > > > Removing the most annoying mechanic, then the most broken one, leaving IH only as a good visual distraction. > > > > And ofcourse revert the mediocre chrono rework they did a few months ago. > > > > Maybe that will make me come back. > > > > > > Why would anyone pick IH over EM if your suggestion is implemented? > > > I love it when people make "high IQ" suggestions and don't think about ramifications. > > > > Good point I forgot about that. Step 4: Bring exhaustion back. Solved. > > tldr > nerf IH > nerf EM > nerf dodge > job done :D Why search for enemies when you already have them at home? Your worst enemy is always close to you. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET! > > > > > > > > @ArenaNet > > > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered? > > > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy: > > > > Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell. > > I think the main issues with mesmer in general are: > 1. Mindwrack can still do 12K in 2 hits after being in stealth and even then some more outside stealth > 2. For mirage specifically, the clones get evade frames > 3. Clones can get aegis > 4. Clones can actually take 3-4 hits to kill, instead of one, and that's with Demo/Maurauder/Berserker amulets. > 5. Clones persist indefinitely. > > Those are the main issues I have with mesmer. I want them to not rely so much on their clones and on super bursts to be effective in combat. I'm guessing you haven't played mesmer in a very long time or you've discovered copper tier in PvP, here's why. 1. Yes, you need mantra of pain for this though. 2. Yes with a trait, at the same rate the mesmer evades. 3. They don't, you're mistaking clones with phantasms and there's a trait for that....it's not an issue I've ever seen anyone complain about till now, congrats. 4. Clones have 2.4k health, if it's taking you 3-4 hits you're doing something very wrong with those amulets. Phantasms, might take 3, I'll give you that. 5. Yes and no, they disappear when you get far enough away, they are also rendered useless by stealth and wasted as a shatter if chilled, crippled or you simply walk away with swiftness. Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 @"bravan.3876" make clones deal 25% dmg with their ambushes, make it baseline poof fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 @"bravan.3876" get over your lame vendetta towards condition damage. It's dumb and thoroughly misguided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 @"bravan.3876" very quick review on your "amazing" changes. 1. If daishi let you live on this one... I think he wont 2. nonsense 3. I will definitely kill you 4. Just set condi duration on clones from ambush to 1s ? They wouldnt put any effort to rework it and it would affect PVE. 5. @"mortrialus.3062" will kill you 6. Ok 7. Ok 8. PU should be deleted and reworked with shadow arts stealth duration increase trait. (thief has this trait that you are talking about, while they are revealed they take -33% dmg in master tier btw). They wouldnt put any effort to rework it. 9. They wouldnt put any effort to rework it. Also other classes "defensive" traitlines are way worse than chaos. Can I get instead of chaos ranger's WS? Protection/cleanses/passive poison access, yes plox (also passive endurance gain, gib me !) 10. How about they make it actually land first? In the end ... Either CMC have no clue whats up with mesmer or its just bias and him "listening" to all this "pros". Have ANYONE forgot that he said REV is fine because "its just favored by the best players who play it", rev has viable(playble) build starting of all specs : core/herald/rene lel. Its just the best players play it ... So many talented rev players out there /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 @"bravan.3876" TLDR we lose our survivability IA + f4 reset we lose most our sustain damage, rip clone condi we lose our bust, rup mantra and gs vuln/might for damage we lose our only viable defensive traitline rip chaos there be some hefty buffs or the mirage gonna be reaching for meme 30% winrate category Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 @"bravan.3876" I never see the balance patch for other professions, what is this second daredevil trade-off you're talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > @"bravan.3876" > I never see the balance patch for other professions, what is this second daredevil trade-off you're talking about? Pretty much this, I didn't even want to discuss on a 10+ wall of text why his propositions (just bored thinking of this.) will just end with 4 more dead traits/skill while letting currently unused things unused but don't forget he want to nerf everyone passive, even if he mainly wrote about mesmer (you know, impartiality, start by making mesmers half traits more dead than they are then look at others.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 What you guys can forget for certain is that you get 2 dodges back without any compensating nerfs on other places. Also i am certain, that if you give Mirage 2 dodges back both condi and power ambushes need nerfs in dmg to be balanced post patch with 2 dodges. How much nerf in dmg and effect reward ambushes need is easy to fine adjust. So you cannot even call anything i said to condi ambushes a nerf without even getting specific numbers. That already shows that you all just defensively try to avoid any nerf no matter if it is actually a buff and something will add skill ceiling to Condimirage compared to current state. Biased and clueless as hell. No clue why you worry about condi dmg from Mirage @"Leonidrex.5649" @"mortrialus.3062" but the whole condi dmg from current Condimirage doesn't come from any ambush, neither clones nor Mirages own ambush, anyway. I have no vendetta vs condi it is just obviously true, that normal clone autoattacks on condi weapons have way more dmg than power clones for no reason and for that a higher amount of passive dmg baseline on core already and that condi ambushes are wrong designed, leading to even more passive condi dmg application on pure defensive dodging and playstyle from the Mirage in their current state. You obviously also miss, that my changes are not nerfs, they are in the end buffs compared to the current one dodge state and i didn't even say anything about how high or low the condi dmg on clone ambushes or Mesmers ambushes need to be, to be balanced when getting 2 dodges back. That is Anets part of the work to give 2 dodges back, rework the condi ambush design to more utility purpose and then see how much dmg (powerr as condi) on ambushes from Mesmer and clones is balanced in post patch state with 2 dodges. Important is, that Condimirage gets ambushes giving incentive and the need to dodge offensive to outplay opponents with well timed ambush effects and not just passive condi dmg application from pure defensive dodging by clones. Condimirage will get way higher skill ceiling without IH being overnerfed into uselessness from the one dodge change. No clue why you guys lack in ability to understand this. That i have a vendetta vs condi you only can think when you don't understand the Mirage mechanic and its issues at all. What is always shocking considering that you are Mesmer mains. I rly start to beleive you are afraid of giving Condi IH Mirage a higher skill ceiling because then you would not have enough skill anymore to play it? Or it rly is simply the lack of understanding of the spec. > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"bravan.3876" make clones deal 25% dmg with their ambushes, make it baseline poof fixed No clue what you mean with that. The best ambushes are the ones not about dmg, the ones about effects, the ones give incentive and the need to time those ambushes for tactical outplays by pure offensive dodges differently timed from pure defensive dodges and well timed for tactical manner and you want to make it just a passive dmg mutliplier killing every active and tactical purpose of the few ambushes actually designed well already? Nerfing IH is just another stupid and unncessary sledge hammer nerf when you can just fine adjust ambushes to something more skilled and more balanced. @"Odik.4587" bug fixes ofc included but they have nothing to do with actual balance suggestions, bug fixes should be a no brainer. Devs listening to biased players they are friends with is a big mess, in particular when most of those players should be perma banned for breaking tos with account sharing and for PvP reward trading, wintrading etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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