ArlAlt.1630 Posted April 16, 2020 Author Share Posted April 16, 2020 > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > > > > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > > > Clearly OP. > > > > i bet if soi gets nerfed and mirage starts using IA to compensate for the dodge it will get targeted next lol > > Shhh! I never stopped slotting IA. The less attention it gets, the better! It's bad enough Bravan thinks it's toxic and low skill, and wants to increase its c/d after it already got a big increase way before Megapatch! > > Sidenote: If they decide to mess with SoIl now, I'm pretty sure it will have to be a skill split, and not a universal "trade-off". This is because the F4 reset is an essential tool in a certain extremely popular PvE meta event. I know we PvPers tend not to have PvE on our radar, let alone care. But we know it's PvE > PvP when it comes to crowd pleasing in this game. Something to keep in mind in discussing how Anet might further kill off remaining vestiges of usefulness in the mesmer kit. Wouldn't put it beneath them to slap on a higher c/d in competitive modes only and call it a day. Because, you know, One Dodge Man just has far too much sustain, and we can't have him reaching for remaining life lines, now can we? Next patch: "We felt that Illusionary Ambush was overperforming so we adjusted it to attack the Mesmer instead of the target, but we will continue to monitor the situation and nerf further Mesmer uprisings, as far as performance goes. After all we want our trademarked class to be useless." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 funny how you still feeding the troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 > @"Khalisto.5780" said: > funny how you still feeding the troll Considering I'm the Troll, your comment really doesn't put things in perspective. Edited cuz I was a mean panda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > > > > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > > > > > > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > > > > Clearly OP. > > > > > > i bet if soi gets nerfed and mirage starts using IA to compensate for the dodge it will get targeted next lol > > > > Shhh! I never stopped slotting IA. The less attention it gets, the better! It's bad enough Bravan thinks it's toxic and low skill, and wants to increase its c/d after it already got a big increase way before Megapatch! > > > > Sidenote: If they decide to mess with SoIl now, I'm pretty sure it will have to be a skill split, and not a universal "trade-off". This is because the F4 reset is an essential tool in a certain extremely popular PvE meta event. I know we PvPers tend not to have PvE on our radar, let alone care. But we know it's PvE > PvP when it comes to crowd pleasing in this game. Something to keep in mind in discussing how Anet might further kill off remaining vestiges of usefulness in the mesmer kit. Wouldn't put it beneath them to slap on a higher c/d in competitive modes only and call it a day. Because, you know, One Dodge Man just has far too much sustain, and we can't have him reaching for remaining life lines, now can we? > > Next patch: > "We felt that Illusionary Ambush was overperforming so we adjusted it to attack the Mesmer instead of the target, but we will continue to monitor the situation and nerf further Mesmer uprisings, as far as performance goes. After all we want our trademarked class to be useless." Their new "trade marked" class is revenant now, no? xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > > > > > > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > > > > > > > > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > > > > > Clearly OP. > > > > > > > > i bet if soi gets nerfed and mirage starts using IA to compensate for the dodge it will get targeted next lol > > > > > > Shhh! I never stopped slotting IA. The less attention it gets, the better! It's bad enough Bravan thinks it's toxic and low skill, and wants to increase its c/d after it already got a big increase way before Megapatch! > > > > > > Sidenote: If they decide to mess with SoIl now, I'm pretty sure it will have to be a skill split, and not a universal "trade-off". This is because the F4 reset is an essential tool in a certain extremely popular PvE meta event. I know we PvPers tend not to have PvE on our radar, let alone care. But we know it's PvE > PvP when it comes to crowd pleasing in this game. Something to keep in mind in discussing how Anet might further kill off remaining vestiges of usefulness in the mesmer kit. Wouldn't put it beneath them to slap on a higher c/d in competitive modes only and call it a day. Because, you know, One Dodge Man just has far too much sustain, and we can't have him reaching for remaining life lines, now can we? > > > > Next patch: > > "We felt that Illusionary Ambush was overperforming so we adjusted it to attack the Mesmer instead of the target, but we will continue to monitor the situation and nerf further Mesmer uprisings, as far as performance goes. After all we want our trademarked class to be useless." > > Their new "trade marked" class is revenant now, no? xD You misspelled "guardian" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > > > > Hold up, Anet is nerfing Mesmer's sustain in an upcoming patch? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What sustain is there to nerf? > > > > > > > > > > > > Signet of illusion of course, there is some mesmers who use it in mirage to compensate the lose of dodge by doubling F4. > > > > > > Clearly OP. > > > > > > > > > > i bet if soi gets nerfed and mirage starts using IA to compensate for the dodge it will get targeted next lol > > > > > > > > Shhh! I never stopped slotting IA. The less attention it gets, the better! It's bad enough Bravan thinks it's toxic and low skill, and wants to increase its c/d after it already got a big increase way before Megapatch! > > > > > > > > Sidenote: If they decide to mess with SoIl now, I'm pretty sure it will have to be a skill split, and not a universal "trade-off". This is because the F4 reset is an essential tool in a certain extremely popular PvE meta event. I know we PvPers tend not to have PvE on our radar, let alone care. But we know it's PvE > PvP when it comes to crowd pleasing in this game. Something to keep in mind in discussing how Anet might further kill off remaining vestiges of usefulness in the mesmer kit. Wouldn't put it beneath them to slap on a higher c/d in competitive modes only and call it a day. Because, you know, One Dodge Man just has far too much sustain, and we can't have him reaching for remaining life lines, now can we? > > > > > > Next patch: > > > "We felt that Illusionary Ambush was overperforming so we adjusted it to attack the Mesmer instead of the target, but we will continue to monitor the situation and nerf further Mesmer uprisings, as far as performance goes. After all we want our trademarked class to be useless." > > > > Their new "trade marked" class is revenant now, no? xD > > You misspelled "guardian" I thiiiiiiiink in PvP context its Rev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 > @"Odik.4587" said: > @"bravan.3876" > very quick review on your "amazing" changes. > 1. If daishi let you live on this one... I think he wont > 2. nonsense > 3. I will definitely kill you > 4. Just set condi duration on clones from ambush to 1s ? They wouldnt put any effort to rework it and it would affect PVE. > 5. @"mortrialus.3062" will kill you > 6. Ok > 7. Ok > 8. PU should be deleted and reworked with shadow arts stealth duration increase trait. (thief has this trait that you are talking about, while they are revealed they take -33% dmg in master tier btw). They wouldnt put any effort to rework it. > 9. They wouldnt put any effort to rework it. Also other classes "defensive" traitlines are way worse than chaos. Can I get instead of chaos ranger's WS? Protection/cleanses/passive poison access, yes plox (also passive endurance gain, gib me !) > 10. How about they make it actually land first? > In the end ... Either CMC have no clue whats up with mesmer or its just bias and him "listening" to all this "pros". Have ANYONE forgot that he said REV is fine because "its just favored by the best players who play it", rev has viable(playble) build starting of all specs : core/herald/rene lel. Its just the best players play it ... So many talented rev players out there /s I'd actually okay with taking condition damage away from the clone autos but also putting it specifically onto the mesmer themself. Not onto shatters. Condition mesmer needs more flexibility than revolving their entire combat style onto Cry of Frustration, a 25 second CD skill intended to execute players that now no longer does execution worthy damage. For example rather than winds of chaos being balanced around over 50% of your staff damage coming from clone autos, it should just be orientated so that the mesmer's Winds of Chaos does an additional 1,2 and 3 damaging conditions based on how many clones you have. These leaves clones are purely tools for distraction and fuel for shatters, but also maintains condition mesmer's damage per second and makes it overall more fair as the mesmer can't just flee and let their clones wrack up damage for them, the mesmer themselves should be committing to the attack. Also mirage axe and scepter autos have always been hilariously under powered. Condition Revenant:  Condition Mirage:   If ranger longbow auto attacks are critting for 1.5k-2k damage at 1500 range why are the condition damage on our weapons so ridiculously undertuned, including the literal melee range kit? Even Condition Revenant blows the dps out of the water on their condition melee kit. Honestly I just find Bravan's weird stance of "A 1 second channel and a 1.5 second channel for damage dealing skills is passive and the damage must be completely removed." Like that literally doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: I know where damage from clones belong - to auto attacks. And so you do. The reason to throw a pokeball with you in there, so you can say it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kickpuncher.8109 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 OMG look at how much has changed since the PVP team was allowed to implement balances separate from the PVE team. OMG THE GLORY DAYS OF PVP ARE AT HAND........ wait it is just the same Flavor Of the Month shit we have seen for the past 8 years with clown devs who have no clue what they are doing. For PVP that is. Great job PVE team! PVP team you haven't progressed the PVP game very much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraai.7265 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 This post is so funny, people defending stupid skills that dumbed down the game like IH or EM, skills added in pof, that we didn't even need to be viable, yet while you hang on them anet destroys everything else, dodges, entire specs, damage applications, etc. You should be asking anet to think on more viable and fair ways of using the class, not to please leave the last 2 unfair mechanics we have, i'd prefer to be a mediocre but viable spec, than a 1 trick pony abusing a dumb mechanic. IH: Before pof it wasn't even there, yet even while the pof meta era, people still could use condi core builds and excel... you still think this skill is that relevant? that we can't live with out the condi applications? EM: As much as i love to dodge in the face of some warrior that stuns me with a headbutt or shieldbash, if no other class has the ability to do this, why should we? having distortion for the same use. There is no reason, and it's also not as relevant as you claim, people are using core build right now, because mirage with one dodge sucks, even with EM. My point is, we can hang on to this dumb mechanics created by those geniuses in anet's dev team, but still have one dodge and be handicapped, or we can let them go learn new tricks, demand for buffs in other aspects and go back to beeing relevant. Ofc I would love to get my second dodge back with no trade offs but guess what, if they do that, people will come back to this forums and cry about those skills again, so guess what, eventually some of them will have to leave.... what do you prefer? beeing a handicapped 1 trick pony? or beeing on par with every other spec? And I agree with the ones that told me, it's unfair to nerf those dumb skills but leave the ones other specs have, IMO pof specs ruined this game and they should all be removed, but thats fantasy land, ofc they should be looked at and a lot of dumb shit has to be removed, but we are talking about mesmers here, thats why I don't speak about other specs, but ofc each one has some more dumbs mechanics that make the game unfair. But I can't be like all those idiots who don't even play my class and come here to cry for nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Mesmers gave countless ideas to anet on how to nerf the class and instead decided non mesmers knew more about balance then the players that actually play the class. Issue with this is that the issue or issues that are sparking the nerf threads end up not being fixed and anet team is to prideful to walk back changes and instead nerf further around their mistake ruining the class, they did this to thief,scourge and druid as well all while seemly reluctant to touch specs like fb lol. On my dp thief mesmer specs are the only class I can down somewhat quickly, really don't think further nerfs are a answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 @"kraai.7265" : Did you mixed up EM with MC? Neither EM breaks stun anymore nor does EM give the ability to dodge while stunned. Also you genius miss, that IH itself can be a mostly active and very skilled mechanic, the only reason it is not the case for Condimirage is the wrong design of ambushes on condi weapons. With other words neither EM (what is just a simple, more passive, defensive dodge trait) nor IH are any issue from Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 > @"kraai.7265" said: > This post is so funny, people defending stupid skills that dumbed down the game like IH or EM, skills added in pof, that we didn't even need to be viable, yet while you hang on them anet destroys everything else, dodges, entire specs, damage applications, etc. You should be asking anet to think on more viable and fair ways of using the class, not to please leave the last 2 unfair mechanics we have, i'd prefer to be a mediocre but viable spec, than a 1 trick pony abusing a dumb mechanic. > IH: Before pof it wasn't even there, yet even while the pof meta era, people still could use condi core builds and excel... you still think this skill is that relevant? that we can't live with out the condi applications? > EM: As much as i love to dodge in the face of some warrior that stuns me with a headbutt or shieldbash, if no other class has the ability to do this, why should we? having distortion for the same use. There is no reason, and it's also not as relevant as you claim, people are using core build right now, because mirage with one dodge sucks, even with EM. > My point is, we can hang on to this dumb mechanics created by those geniuses in anet's dev team, but still have one dodge and be handicapped, or we can let them go learn new tricks, demand for buffs in other aspects and go back to beeing relevant. > Ofc I would love to get my second dodge back with no trade offs but guess what, if they do that, people will come back to this forums and cry about those skills again, so guess what, eventually some of them will have to leave.... what do you prefer? beeing a handicapped 1 trick pony? or beeing on par with every other spec? > And I agree with the ones that told me, it's unfair to nerf those dumb skills but leave the ones other specs have, IMO pof specs ruined this game and they should all be removed, but thats fantasy land, ofc they should be looked at and a lot of dumb kitten has to be removed, but we are talking about mesmers here, thats why I don't speak about other specs, but ofc each one has some more dumbs mechanics that make the game unfair. > But I can't be like all those idiots who don't even play my class and come here to cry for nerfs. I am totally for deleting IH and shifting the dmg to the Mesmer itself, it would mean that mirage is easy as fuck to play xD. IH adds skilled gameplay, it does not delete it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pninak.1069 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 if they shifted people would still complain. Because mirage amubush get 4 times stronger. only thing that changes is that mirage has to be facing the enemy in order to deal damage. if they did that they could just delete this and just add a 400% increase to mesmer ambushes as a trait. IH would be useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 > @"pninak.1069" said: > if they shifted people would still complain. Because mirage amubush get 4 times stronger. only thing that changes is that mirage has to be facing the enemy in order to deal damage. if they did that they could just delete this and just add a 400% increase to mesmer ambushes as a trait. IH would be useless. God I have to be more serious when I write comments, all in all you just repeat what I’m saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > This post is so funny, people defending stupid skills that dumbed down the game like IH or EM, skills added in pof, that we didn't even need to be viable, yet while you hang on them anet destroys everything else, dodges, entire specs, damage applications, etc. You should be asking anet to think on more viable and fair ways of using the class, not to please leave the last 2 unfair mechanics we have, i'd prefer to be a mediocre but viable spec, than a 1 trick pony abusing a dumb mechanic. > > IH: Before pof it wasn't even there, yet even while the pof meta era, people still could use condi core builds and excel... you still think this skill is that relevant? that we can't live with out the condi applications? > > EM: As much as i love to dodge in the face of some warrior that stuns me with a headbutt or shieldbash, if no other class has the ability to do this, why should we? having distortion for the same use. There is no reason, and it's also not as relevant as you claim, people are using core build right now, because mirage with one dodge sucks, even with EM. > > My point is, we can hang on to this dumb mechanics created by those geniuses in anet's dev team, but still have one dodge and be handicapped, or we can let them go learn new tricks, demand for buffs in other aspects and go back to beeing relevant. > > Ofc I would love to get my second dodge back with no trade offs but guess what, if they do that, people will come back to this forums and cry about those skills again, so guess what, eventually some of them will have to leave.... what do you prefer? beeing a handicapped 1 trick pony? or beeing on par with every other spec? > > And I agree with the ones that told me, it's unfair to nerf those dumb skills but leave the ones other specs have, IMO pof specs ruined this game and they should all be removed, but thats fantasy land, ofc they should be looked at and a lot of dumb kitten has to be removed, but we are talking about mesmers here, thats why I don't speak about other specs, but ofc each one has some more dumbs mechanics that make the game unfair. > > But I can't be like all those idiots who don't even play my class and come here to cry for nerfs. > > IH adds skilled gameplay, it does not delete it... Finally someone else says it too. There is hope :+1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pninak.1069 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I think IH is one of the few traits we have that actually affects the behaviour of illusions. it is even more active than the traits that buff phantasm which is just a flat boon bonus for phantasms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > This post is so funny, people defending stupid skills that dumbed down the game like IH or EM, skills added in pof, that we didn't even need to be viable, yet while you hang on them anet destroys everything else, dodges, entire specs, damage applications, etc. You should be asking anet to think on more viable and fair ways of using the class, not to please leave the last 2 unfair mechanics we have, i'd prefer to be a mediocre but viable spec, than a 1 trick pony abusing a dumb mechanic. > > > IH: Before pof it wasn't even there, yet even while the pof meta era, people still could use condi core builds and excel... you still think this skill is that relevant? that we can't live with out the condi applications? > > > EM: As much as i love to dodge in the face of some warrior that stuns me with a headbutt or shieldbash, if no other class has the ability to do this, why should we? having distortion for the same use. There is no reason, and it's also not as relevant as you claim, people are using core build right now, because mirage with one dodge sucks, even with EM. > > > My point is, we can hang on to this dumb mechanics created by those geniuses in anet's dev team, but still have one dodge and be handicapped, or we can let them go learn new tricks, demand for buffs in other aspects and go back to beeing relevant. > > > Ofc I would love to get my second dodge back with no trade offs but guess what, if they do that, people will come back to this forums and cry about those skills again, so guess what, eventually some of them will have to leave.... what do you prefer? beeing a handicapped 1 trick pony? or beeing on par with every other spec? > > > And I agree with the ones that told me, it's unfair to nerf those dumb skills but leave the ones other specs have, IMO pof specs ruined this game and they should all be removed, but thats fantasy land, ofc they should be looked at and a lot of dumb kitten has to be removed, but we are talking about mesmers here, thats why I don't speak about other specs, but ofc each one has some more dumbs mechanics that make the game unfair. > > > But I can't be like all those idiots who don't even play my class and come here to cry for nerfs. > > > > IH adds skilled gameplay, it does not delete it... > > Finally someone else says it too. There is hope :+1: Mesmes had always build up to burst, even power shatter has to do a lot of stuff to set up the Burst, I don’t know why people now want that the Mesmer itself does more dmg. But if people want that Mesmer does a high amount of dmg without building up the burst im also okey with it xD if I’m serious I’m right now at a point where I don’t care anymore if it gets deleted. A class with only one dodge is not fun to play if every other class has 2. Fact. No matter how much you tweak it. Anyways the only thing I can think of why IH is a problem is because mirage can use IH and burst right after it with f2 (in case of Condi mirage) so mirage has the ability to set up one burst followed by another without investing more. But if we look at the weapon skills the Mesmer has, everything is build around summoning illusions with weak skills and execute them with strong skills (F1 F2 F3). The dmg skills the weapons have are not really worth it and are only good because they have multiple purposes. Mesmer is build around those shatter skills, they fulfill the purpose of making Mesmer viable. If you add to this mechanic another mechanic that adds another burst on top of the class based dmg output in my optinion there is a problem with this trait. In the end it’s hard to balance mechanics like this but we can also see that pMirage has not the problems cMirage has with this trait. I’m pretty sure it is balance able but if we have a incompetent dev team, maybe it would be better to just delete it. We have to get realistic at some point and admit that Anet is not competent enough to find fast enough solutions for problems like these... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pninak.1069 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 It is just 2 conditions applied via this ambush too. unless you use staff. so you can cleanse them with minimum effort too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > This post is so funny, people defending stupid skills that dumbed down the game like IH or EM, skills added in pof, that we didn't even need to be viable, yet while you hang on them anet destroys everything else, dodges, entire specs, damage applications, etc. You should be asking anet to think on more viable and fair ways of using the class, not to please leave the last 2 unfair mechanics we have, i'd prefer to be a mediocre but viable spec, than a 1 trick pony abusing a dumb mechanic. > > > > IH: Before pof it wasn't even there, yet even while the pof meta era, people still could use condi core builds and excel... you still think this skill is that relevant? that we can't live with out the condi applications? > > > > EM: As much as i love to dodge in the face of some warrior that stuns me with a headbutt or shieldbash, if no other class has the ability to do this, why should we? having distortion for the same use. There is no reason, and it's also not as relevant as you claim, people are using core build right now, because mirage with one dodge sucks, even with EM. > > > > My point is, we can hang on to this dumb mechanics created by those geniuses in anet's dev team, but still have one dodge and be handicapped, or we can let them go learn new tricks, demand for buffs in other aspects and go back to beeing relevant. > > > > Ofc I would love to get my second dodge back with no trade offs but guess what, if they do that, people will come back to this forums and cry about those skills again, so guess what, eventually some of them will have to leave.... what do you prefer? beeing a handicapped 1 trick pony? or beeing on par with every other spec? > > > > And I agree with the ones that told me, it's unfair to nerf those dumb skills but leave the ones other specs have, IMO pof specs ruined this game and they should all be removed, but thats fantasy land, ofc they should be looked at and a lot of dumb kitten has to be removed, but we are talking about mesmers here, thats why I don't speak about other specs, but ofc each one has some more dumbs mechanics that make the game unfair. > > > > But I can't be like all those idiots who don't even play my class and come here to cry for nerfs. > > > > > > IH adds skilled gameplay, it does not delete it... > > > > Finally someone else says it too. There is hope :+1: > > Mesmes had always build up to burst, even power shatter has to do a lot of stuff to set up the Burst, I don’t know why people now want that the Mesmer itself does more dmg. But if people want that Mesmer does a high amount of dmg without building up the burst im also okey with it xD if I’m serious I’m right now at a point where I don’t care anymore if it gets deleted. A class with only one dodge is not fun to play if every other class has 2. Fact. No matter how much you tweak it. > > Anyways the only thing I can think of why IH is a problem is because mirage can use IH and burst right after it with f2 (in case of Condi mirage) so mirage has the ability to set up one burst followed by another without investing more. But if we look at the weapon skills the Mesmer has, everything is build around summoning illusions with weak skills and execute them with strong skills (F1 F2 F3). The dmg skills the weapons have are not really worth it and are only good because they have multiple purposes. Mesmer is build around those shatter skills, they fulfill the purpose of making Mesmer viable. If you add to this mechanic another mechanic that adds another burst on top of the class based dmg output in my optinion there is a problem with this trait. In the end it’s hard to balance mechanics like this but we can also see that pMirage has not the problems cMirage has with this trait. I’m pretty sure it is balance able but if we have a incompetent dev team, maybe it would be better to just delete it. We have to get realistic at some point and admit that Anet is not competent enough to find fast enough solutions for problems like these... IH/ambush mechanic on Condimirage is an issue because the condi ambushes are wrong designed. First they are mainly only about dmg not mainly about effects/utility like gs or sword, that makes it rly hard to balance them in a way that they create the need and the incentive to dodge pure offensive to make active and well timed outplays with ambushes. On Condimirage IH only enables passive clone dmg (passive is relative here because ofc the Mesmer still needs to press the dodge button, means the clone ambushes are ofc less passive than the normal clone autoattacks). The second problem with condi clone ambushes is, that they do too much condi dmg by itself and more condi dmg than a shatter could do with those clones. Means active shatter gameplay gets punished on IH Condimirage, just as pure offensive dodging was not necessary to make high condi dmg with IH clones alone already. Means Condimirage didn't even offer the ability to make active, tactical and for that skilled outplays with clone ambushes because they are all only about dmg mainly and the dmg reward was that high, that the Mirage didn't need to do anything else than passive and defensive gameplay, while clones did most of the work in terms of offensive power. The clone dmg from ambushes and clones normal autoattacks was also that high, that Condimirage could use a defensive traitline like Chaos for even more defensive and even more passive and mistake forgiving sustain. Made the build even more oppressive. It also made the ability to dodge while being stunned a broken ability on Condimirage, because Condimirage could just punish the opponents well timed cc with still high passive clone dmg. It neutralized the cc reward for the opponent almost completely. In general the missing opportunity costs/ no harder decision making in dodge management on IH Condimirage neutralized all trade off/ inherent costs this spec would have and was supposed to have since PoF release. Means only the wrong condi ambush design contradicts the inherent trade off Mirage has since release. Means on Condimirage the IH/ ambush mechanic ofc is an issue but it is not because of IH, it is because of the wrong designed condi ambushes. And the one dodge change did not solve those issues at all. They just overnerfed the whole mechanic to make it not worth taking anymore. That is just covering the problem but not solving it. They barely touched the ambushes itself directly, instead they nerf around them by deleting one dodge, by overnerfing Sharper Images (instead just reworking scepter ambush to have less hits and for that will not overperform with Sharper Images anymore) etc. It is sad to see, because reworking condi ambushes is not even that much more work. Rework them to give them more utility effect purpose which create the incentive and the need for pure offensive dodges for active moves already by the utility nature itself, the need to time ambush rewards well for either tactical outplays (for example with a daze) or for comboing them with other skills (like selfbuff and target debuff with might/ vuln to prepare a burst with gs or sword or applying weakness with an interrupt when the Mesmer or his teammates are pressured). Neither tactical outplays nor combo-need is given with ambushes that are mainly only about dmg. You can make pure dmg dodge rewards more active but it is very hard to do. More ative and with higher skill ciling are utility ambushes as they are on sword, or at least gs. And when you have the mainly utility nature as basic design also for condi ambushes, you then can fine adjust how much dmg (condi or power) can be added to the utility purpose to be balanced post patch with 2 dodges. But Anet prefered to go a way with a nonsense sledge hammer one dodge change, which looks lower effort on the first view, but when you look at it more deeply, you see that reworking condi ambushes might be more work in the first step but later you will have an much easier time to balance Mirages by just fine adjusting ambushes from each weapon and from Mesmer and clones individually, what will then decrease any balance work/effort in the future. Also this less nonsense and less mechanic contradicting mindful balance of ambushes comes with way lower costs. Because those changes 1. will rly solve the issue and not just nerf around them 2. will not overnerf the whole mehcnaic and turn IH into another dead trait 3. will not kill any skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechnaical complexity by contradicting mechanics and will not dumb down the whole traitline 4. will not overnerf and dumb down other playstyles like power which never were op and always were active, and high skilled already with, even more because of: IH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senqu.8054 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > This post is so funny, people defending stupid skills that dumbed down the game like IH or EM, skills added in pof, that we didn't even need to be viable, yet while you hang on them anet destroys everything else, dodges, entire specs, damage applications, etc. You should be asking anet to think on more viable and fair ways of using the class, not to please leave the last 2 unfair mechanics we have, i'd prefer to be a mediocre but viable spec, than a 1 trick pony abusing a dumb mechanic. > > > > > IH: Before pof it wasn't even there, yet even while the pof meta era, people still could use condi core builds and excel... you still think this skill is that relevant? that we can't live with out the condi applications? > > > > > EM: As much as i love to dodge in the face of some warrior that stuns me with a headbutt or shieldbash, if no other class has the ability to do this, why should we? having distortion for the same use. There is no reason, and it's also not as relevant as you claim, people are using core build right now, because mirage with one dodge sucks, even with EM. > > > > > My point is, we can hang on to this dumb mechanics created by those geniuses in anet's dev team, but still have one dodge and be handicapped, or we can let them go learn new tricks, demand for buffs in other aspects and go back to beeing relevant. > > > > > Ofc I would love to get my second dodge back with no trade offs but guess what, if they do that, people will come back to this forums and cry about those skills again, so guess what, eventually some of them will have to leave.... what do you prefer? beeing a handicapped 1 trick pony? or beeing on par with every other spec? > > > > > And I agree with the ones that told me, it's unfair to nerf those dumb skills but leave the ones other specs have, IMO pof specs ruined this game and they should all be removed, but thats fantasy land, ofc they should be looked at and a lot of dumb kitten has to be removed, but we are talking about mesmers here, thats why I don't speak about other specs, but ofc each one has some more dumbs mechanics that make the game unfair. > > > > > But I can't be like all those idiots who don't even play my class and come here to cry for nerfs. > > > > > > > > IH adds skilled gameplay, it does not delete it... > > > > > > Finally someone else says it too. There is hope :+1: > > > > Mesmes had always build up to burst, even power shatter has to do a lot of stuff to set up the Burst, I don’t know why people now want that the Mesmer itself does more dmg. But if people want that Mesmer does a high amount of dmg without building up the burst im also okey with it xD if I’m serious I’m right now at a point where I don’t care anymore if it gets deleted. A class with only one dodge is not fun to play if every other class has 2. Fact. No matter how much you tweak it. > > > > Anyways the only thing I can think of why IH is a problem is because mirage can use IH and burst right after it with f2 (in case of Condi mirage) so mirage has the ability to set up one burst followed by another without investing more. But if we look at the weapon skills the Mesmer has, everything is build around summoning illusions with weak skills and execute them with strong skills (F1 F2 F3). The dmg skills the weapons have are not really worth it and are only good because they have multiple purposes. Mesmer is build around those shatter skills, they fulfill the purpose of making Mesmer viable. If you add to this mechanic another mechanic that adds another burst on top of the class based dmg output in my optinion there is a problem with this trait. In the end it’s hard to balance mechanics like this but we can also see that pMirage has not the problems cMirage has with this trait. I’m pretty sure it is balance able but if we have a incompetent dev team, maybe it would be better to just delete it. We have to get realistic at some point and admit that Anet is not competent enough to find fast enough solutions for problems like these... > > IH/ambush mechanic on Condimirage is an issue because the condi ambushes are wrong designed. First they are mainly only about dmg not mainly about effects/utility like gs or sword, that makes it rly hard to balance them in a way that they create the need and the incentive to dodge pure offensive to make active and well timed outplays with ambushes. > > On Condimirage IH only enables passive clone dmg (passive is relative here because ofc the Mesmer still needs to press the dodge button, means the clone ambushes are ofc less passive than the normal clone autoattacks). The second problem with condi clone ambushes is, that they do too much condi dmg by itself and more condi dmg than a shatter could do with those clones. Means active shatter gameplay gets punished on IH Condimirage, just as pure offensive dodging was not necessary to make high condi dmg with IH clones alone already. Means Condimirage didn't even offer the ability to make active, tactical and for that skilled outplays with clone ambushes because they are all only about dmg mainly and the dmg reward was that high, that the Mirage didn't need to do anything else than passive and defensive gameplay, while clones did most of the work in terms of offensive power. > The clone dmg from ambushes and clones normal autoattacks was also that high, that Condimirage could use a defensive traitline like Chaos for even more defensive and even more passive and mistake forgiving sustain. Made the build even more oppressive. It also made the ability to dodge while being stunned a broken ability on Condimirage, because Condimirage could just punish the opponents well timed cc with still high passive clone dmg. It neutralized the cc reward for the opponent almost completely. In general the missing opportunity costs/ no harder decision making in dodge management on IH Condimirage neutralized all trade off/ inherent costs this spec would have and was supposed to have since PoF release. Means only the wriong condi ambush design contradicts the inherent trade off Mirage has since release. > > Means on Condimirage the IH/ ambush mechanic ofc is an issue but it is not because of IH, it is because of the wrong designed condi ambushes. And the one dodge change did not solve those issues at all. They just overnerfed the whole mechanic to make it not worth taking anymore. That is just covering the problem but not solving it. They barely touched the ambushes itself directly, instead they nerf around them by deleting one dodge, by overnerfing Sharper Images (instead just reworking scepter ambush to have less hits and for that will not overperform with Sharper Images anymore) etc. It is sad to see, because reworking condi ambushes is not even that much more work. Rework them to give them more utility effect purpose which create the incentive and the need for pure offensive dodges for active moves already by the utility nature itself, the need to time ambush rewards well for either tactical outplays (for example with a daze) or for comboing them with other skills (like selfbuff and target debuff with might/ vuln to prepare a burst with gs or sword or applying weakness with an interrupt when the Mesmer or his teammates are pressured). Neither tactical outplays nor combo-need is given with ambushes that are mainly only about dmg. > > You can make pure dmg dodge rewards more active but it is very hard to do. More ative and with higher skill ciling are utility ambushes as they are on sword, or at least gs. > And when you have the mainly utility nature as basic design also for condi ambushes, you then can fine adjust how much dmg (condi or power) can be added to the utility purpose to be balanced post patch with 2 dodges. > > But Anet prefered to go a way with a nonsense sledge hammer one dodge change, which looks lower effort on the first view, but when you look at it more deeply, you see that reworking condi ambushes might be more work in the first step but later you will have an much easier time to balance Mirages by just fine adjusting ambushes from each weapon and from Mesmer and clones individually, what will then decrease any balance work/effort in the future. > > Also this less nonsense and less mechanic contradicting mindful balance of ambushes comes with way lower costs. Because those changes > 1. will rly solve the issue and not just nerf around them > 2. will not overnerf the whole mehcnaic and turn IH into another dead trait > 3. will not kill any skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechnaical complexity by contradicting mechanics and will not dumb down the whole traitline > 4. will not overnerf and dumb down other playstyles like power which never were op and always were active, and high skilled already with, even more because of: IH. I can understand your points but you just tell me what you wrote X times and sorry if it sounds rude but I’m not in any way willed to read that much for a single trait. Your whole passive / active arguments etc are good but it complicates everything to a level where I really have to ask if it is worth it? IH is unique yeah but as I mentioned it is also spammy as hell and I can’t deny that the whole combo with IH is sometimes extremely overwhelming. Ambush - Jaunt - F2 - weapon swap - torch 3 - torch 4 - sword 3 - ambush - f1 you can’t tell me this is not toxic gameplay. You just execute 4 strong attacks here. Sure ambushes could be balanced but as I told you we have Anet as dev team, we should come to a point where we have to be realistic and maybe accept the fact that it would be better to just delete it for the love of Mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said: > > > > > > @"kraai.7265" said: > > > > > > This post is so funny, people defending stupid skills that dumbed down the game like IH or EM, skills added in pof, that we didn't even need to be viable, yet while you hang on them anet destroys everything else, dodges, entire specs, damage applications, etc. You should be asking anet to think on more viable and fair ways of using the class, not to please leave the last 2 unfair mechanics we have, i'd prefer to be a mediocre but viable spec, than a 1 trick pony abusing a dumb mechanic. > > > > > > IH: Before pof it wasn't even there, yet even while the pof meta era, people still could use condi core builds and excel... you still think this skill is that relevant? that we can't live with out the condi applications? > > > > > > EM: As much as i love to dodge in the face of some warrior that stuns me with a headbutt or shieldbash, if no other class has the ability to do this, why should we? having distortion for the same use. There is no reason, and it's also not as relevant as you claim, people are using core build right now, because mirage with one dodge sucks, even with EM. > > > > > > My point is, we can hang on to this dumb mechanics created by those geniuses in anet's dev team, but still have one dodge and be handicapped, or we can let them go learn new tricks, demand for buffs in other aspects and go back to beeing relevant. > > > > > > Ofc I would love to get my second dodge back with no trade offs but guess what, if they do that, people will come back to this forums and cry about those skills again, so guess what, eventually some of them will have to leave.... what do you prefer? beeing a handicapped 1 trick pony? or beeing on par with every other spec? > > > > > > And I agree with the ones that told me, it's unfair to nerf those dumb skills but leave the ones other specs have, IMO pof specs ruined this game and they should all be removed, but thats fantasy land, ofc they should be looked at and a lot of dumb kitten has to be removed, but we are talking about mesmers here, thats why I don't speak about other specs, but ofc each one has some more dumbs mechanics that make the game unfair. > > > > > > But I can't be like all those idiots who don't even play my class and come here to cry for nerfs. > > > > > > > > > > IH adds skilled gameplay, it does not delete it... > > > > > > > > Finally someone else says it too. There is hope :+1: > > > > > > Mesmes had always build up to burst, even power shatter has to do a lot of stuff to set up the Burst, I don’t know why people now want that the Mesmer itself does more dmg. But if people want that Mesmer does a high amount of dmg without building up the burst im also okey with it xD if I’m serious I’m right now at a point where I don’t care anymore if it gets deleted. A class with only one dodge is not fun to play if every other class has 2. Fact. No matter how much you tweak it. > > > > > > Anyways the only thing I can think of why IH is a problem is because mirage can use IH and burst right after it with f2 (in case of Condi mirage) so mirage has the ability to set up one burst followed by another without investing more. But if we look at the weapon skills the Mesmer has, everything is build around summoning illusions with weak skills and execute them with strong skills (F1 F2 F3). The dmg skills the weapons have are not really worth it and are only good because they have multiple purposes. Mesmer is build around those shatter skills, they fulfill the purpose of making Mesmer viable. If you add to this mechanic another mechanic that adds another burst on top of the class based dmg output in my optinion there is a problem with this trait. In the end it’s hard to balance mechanics like this but we can also see that pMirage has not the problems cMirage has with this trait. I’m pretty sure it is balance able but if we have a incompetent dev team, maybe it would be better to just delete it. We have to get realistic at some point and admit that Anet is not competent enough to find fast enough solutions for problems like these... > > > > IH/ambush mechanic on Condimirage is an issue because the condi ambushes are wrong designed. First they are mainly only about dmg not mainly about effects/utility like gs or sword, that makes it rly hard to balance them in a way that they create the need and the incentive to dodge pure offensive to make active and well timed outplays with ambushes. > > > > On Condimirage IH only enables passive clone dmg (passive is relative here because ofc the Mesmer still needs to press the dodge button, means the clone ambushes are ofc less passive than the normal clone autoattacks). The second problem with condi clone ambushes is, that they do too much condi dmg by itself and more condi dmg than a shatter could do with those clones. Means active shatter gameplay gets punished on IH Condimirage, just as pure offensive dodging was not necessary to make high condi dmg with IH clones alone already. Means Condimirage didn't even offer the ability to make active, tactical and for that skilled outplays with clone ambushes because they are all only about dmg mainly and the dmg reward was that high, that the Mirage didn't need to do anything else than passive and defensive gameplay, while clones did most of the work in terms of offensive power. > > The clone dmg from ambushes and clones normal autoattacks was also that high, that Condimirage could use a defensive traitline like Chaos for even more defensive and even more passive and mistake forgiving sustain. Made the build even more oppressive. It also made the ability to dodge while being stunned a broken ability on Condimirage, because Condimirage could just punish the opponents well timed cc with still high passive clone dmg. It neutralized the cc reward for the opponent almost completely. In general the missing opportunity costs/ no harder decision making in dodge management on IH Condimirage neutralized all trade off/ inherent costs this spec would have and was supposed to have since PoF release. Means only the wriong condi ambush design contradicts the inherent trade off Mirage has since release. > > > > Means on Condimirage the IH/ ambush mechanic ofc is an issue but it is not because of IH, it is because of the wrong designed condi ambushes. And the one dodge change did not solve those issues at all. They just overnerfed the whole mechanic to make it not worth taking anymore. That is just covering the problem but not solving it. They barely touched the ambushes itself directly, instead they nerf around them by deleting one dodge, by overnerfing Sharper Images (instead just reworking scepter ambush to have less hits and for that will not overperform with Sharper Images anymore) etc. It is sad to see, because reworking condi ambushes is not even that much more work. Rework them to give them more utility effect purpose which create the incentive and the need for pure offensive dodges for active moves already by the utility nature itself, the need to time ambush rewards well for either tactical outplays (for example with a daze) or for comboing them with other skills (like selfbuff and target debuff with might/ vuln to prepare a burst with gs or sword or applying weakness with an interrupt when the Mesmer or his teammates are pressured). Neither tactical outplays nor combo-need is given with ambushes that are mainly only about dmg. > > > > You can make pure dmg dodge rewards more active but it is very hard to do. More ative and with higher skill ciling are utility ambushes as they are on sword, or at least gs. > > And when you have the mainly utility nature as basic design also for condi ambushes, you then can fine adjust how much dmg (condi or power) can be added to the utility purpose to be balanced post patch with 2 dodges. > > > > But Anet prefered to go a way with a nonsense sledge hammer one dodge change, which looks lower effort on the first view, but when you look at it more deeply, you see that reworking condi ambushes might be more work in the first step but later you will have an much easier time to balance Mirages by just fine adjusting ambushes from each weapon and from Mesmer and clones individually, what will then decrease any balance work/effort in the future. > > > > Also this less nonsense and less mechanic contradicting mindful balance of ambushes comes with way lower costs. Because those changes > > 1. will rly solve the issue and not just nerf around them > > 2. will not overnerf the whole mehcnaic and turn IH into another dead trait > > 3. will not kill any skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechnaical complexity by contradicting mechanics and will not dumb down the whole traitline > > 4. will not overnerf and dumb down other playstyles like power which never were op and always were active, and high skilled already with, even more because of: IH. > > I can understand your points but you just tell me what you wrote X times and sorry if it sounds rude but I’m not in any way willed to read that much for a single trait. Your whole passive / active arguments etc are good but it complicates everything to a level where I really have to ask if it is worth it? IH is unique yeah but as I mentioned it is also spammy as hell and I can’t deny that the whole combo with IH is sometimes extremely overwhelming. Ambush - Jaunt - F2 - weapon swap - torch 3 - torch 4 - sword 3 - ambush - f1 you can’t tell me this is not toxic gameplay. You just execute 4 strong attacks here. Sure ambushes could be balanced but as I told you we have Anet as dev team, we should come to a point where we have to be realistic and maybe accept the fact that it would be better to just delete it for the love of Mesmer. IH itself is not spammy and mostly passive, just wrong designed (condi-) ambushes make it spammy and mostly passive, as explained. But i get that you don't want to do the effort to read another wall of text from me and make a long discussion based on it. Cannot blame you xD I am tired of it myself tbh. Either Anet understood those basics until now (that is in the end all that counts and if not explaining it another 300 times will probably not help anyway) and Anet start rethinking and get the balls to revert stupid nonsense changes and avoid other nonsense changes driven by clueless bronze propaganda or biased tryhard player who should be perma banned (and not asked about balance) or not. We can't do much anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memausz.7264 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET! > > > > > > > > > > @ArenaNet > > > > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered? > > > > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy: > > > > > > Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell. > > > > I think the main issues with mesmer in general are: > > 1. Mindwrack can still do 12K in 2 hits after being in stealth and even then some more outside stealth > > 2. For mirage specifically, the clones get evade frames > > 3. Clones can get aegis > > 4. Clones can actually take 3-4 hits to kill, instead of one, and that's with Demo/Maurauder/Berserker amulets. > > 5. Clones persist indefinitely. > > > > Those are the main issues I have with mesmer. I want them to not rely so much on their clones and on super bursts to be effective in combat. > > I'm guessing you haven't played mesmer in a very long time or you've discovered copper tier in PvP, here's why. > > 1. Yes, you need mantra of pain for this though. > 2. Yes with a trait, at the same rate the mesmer evades. > 3. They don't, you're mistaking clones with phantasms and there's a trait for that....it's not an issue I've ever seen anyone complain about till now, congrats. > 4. Clones have 2.4k health, if it's taking you 3-4 hits you're doing something very wrong with those amulets. Phantasms, might take 3, I'll give you that. > 5. Yes and no, they disappear when you get far enough away, they are also rendered useless by stealth and wasted as a shatter if chilled, crippled or you simply walk away with swiftness. > > Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion 1. Doesnt matter, too strong 2. Still too strong 3. But... chaos fields exist? It's literally the "CI Mirage but not CI" build 4. Um... you're forgetting Protection? 5. Yeah but the range is, what, 3000 units? Source: I've actually played it, sorry but, but you're just a mesmer apologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > I tuned in to Teapot's Teatime only to hear that according to Teapot, Mirage is butchered. Thank the Maker CMC ignored the stipulation. The class is clearly over performing still. Nerf it already ANET! > > > > > > > > > > > > @ArenaNet > > > > > Was it only mirage? I thought it was the entire class which was butchered? > > > > > But ye CMC is the MVP, ignored the question like a champ. He just couldnt tell him more nerfs are coming :joy: > > > > > > > > Rightfully so, the class is OP as hell. > > > > > > I think the main issues with mesmer in general are: > > > 1. Mindwrack can still do 12K in 2 hits after being in stealth and even then some more outside stealth > > > 2. For mirage specifically, the clones get evade frames > > > 3. Clones can get aegis > > > 4. Clones can actually take 3-4 hits to kill, instead of one, and that's with Demo/Maurauder/Berserker amulets. > > > 5. Clones persist indefinitely. > > > > > > Those are the main issues I have with mesmer. I want them to not rely so much on their clones and on super bursts to be effective in combat. > > > > I'm guessing you haven't played mesmer in a very long time or you've discovered copper tier in PvP, here's why. > > > > 1. Yes, you need mantra of pain for this though. > > 2. Yes with a trait, at the same rate the mesmer evades. > > 3. They don't, you're mistaking clones with phantasms and there's a trait for that....it's not an issue I've ever seen anyone complain about till now, congrats. > > 4. Clones have 2.4k health, if it's taking you 3-4 hits you're doing something very wrong with those amulets. Phantasms, might take 3, I'll give you that. > > 5. Yes and no, they disappear when you get far enough away, they are also rendered useless by stealth and wasted as a shatter if chilled, crippled or you simply walk away with swiftness. > > > > Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion > > 1. Doesnt matter, too strong > 2. Still too strong > 3. But... chaos fields exist? It's literally the "CI Mirage but not CI" build > 4. Um... you're forgetting Protection? > 5. Yeah but the range is, what, 3000 units? > > Source: I've actually played it, sorry but, but you're just a mesmer apologist. Well looks like I found copper league and the "people" they try to balance mesmer around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > > 1. Yes, you need mantra of pain for this though. > > 2. Yes with a trait, at the same rate the mesmer evades. > > 3. They don't, you're mistaking clones with phantasms and there's a trait for that....it's not an issue I've ever seen anyone complain about till now, congrats. > > 4. Clones have 2.4k health, if it's taking you 3-4 hits you're doing something very wrong with those amulets. Phantasms, might take 3, I'll give you that. > > 5. Yes and no, they disappear when you get far enough away, they are also rendered useless by stealth and wasted as a shatter if chilled, crippled or you simply walk away with swiftness. > 1. Doesnt matter, too strong Technically you can oneshot people with a lot of classes if you drop any kind of defense and utility. > 2. Still too strong Why? Why is evading clones too strong? > 3. But... chaos fields exist? It's literally the "CI Mirage but not CI" build That's prepatch mirage build, current mirage doesn't even run staff. > 4. Um... you're forgetting Protection? 1.5s self protection, clones die in 2 hits AT MOST. > Source: I've actually played it, sorry but, but you're just a mesmer apologist. in silver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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