UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > he is weakened , with less survibility . > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > The traits: > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > The traits: > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same 3) If the enemy used AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 16-20%(2800-3300 crit) of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns Good for you playing Enginner :P I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . Something you should do too :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 hum, i think if they remove crit from LR i will just come to forums cry so my ele can cross the map with 3 blinks have insane in combat mobility and add I smoke field to my skills ao i can blast 12631134 times and stealth forever and of course have a backstab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? Damn, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > Good for you playing Enginner :P > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > Something you should do too :P You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > Something you should do too :P > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? Why cant thief dont do the same thing ? Why we must buff PI , which is in a overload traitline and not buff it and put in some Critical Strikes or the Power one ? eDIT: tip for Eles . When you exit the Earth Stance ....the effect linger for some secs . So if you take Stone Heart , you are immune to crit for 1,5-2 sec . i dont know how well it is combined with the HoT spec, where the switch Stance/attument have smaller cd 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be done andmust they go in the middle of the battle. You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time You were wrong. Nothing more to add here 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) and 22% of any Leather ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat +interupt any crusial spells/or channeling , WITH A SINGLE BOTTUN ! 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST+ GUARDIAN IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . Its like you are hiding them :P You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > Its like you are hiding them :P > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. 1)You are doing the same thing atm . You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief attacks to be buffed up , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles have lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . 5) If they spec for maximizing HP , they are missing on damage . And they cannot punish other Berseker fast enough . They are no longer a Burst class , but a Bruser 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > Maybe get your facts right ? > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. Mister Mod ... 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined in Daredevil . Are you going to tell me that you use Shadow Arts ...and ingame combat stealth ? This will sparkle an other conversation ! 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage 3) You have been here for 4 years ... You have made countless posts ... And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. edit: bb need to study for couple of days . Cheerio Mister mod... -_- , can i call you daddy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > Mister Mod ... > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > You have made countless posts ... > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > You have made countless posts ... > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. My mistake , i thought i could crit Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P 2) So you cast , an out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (**Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.**) just for1 time ? Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 45% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Why are you actually comparing only different skills of different classes, they have all a different base health pools, utilities, movement etc... Just comparing skills will not bring any solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. > > 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P > That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P > You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P > It was also, as I had pointed out, bugged and did more damage than intended. And despite your pleading and desperate repetition of "The Ele totally has to be in melee and cant proc LR from range !!!1!1!", thats also wrong. They can. They usually dont, but neither do Headshot thieves. There is no reason why Lightning Rod should ever do more damage than PI, given that its easier to proc *and* gives weakness ontop of that. > 2) So you cast out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.) just for the only 1 fear ? > Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? Have you thought for a second why they might not restealth in-combat? Maybe something to do with in-combat stealth being bad and not worth going for? > And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? Why, oh why, I wonder. Hm. Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly, that is also at its best when used for in-combat stealth that, as we have established, is *really* bad. Hm. > You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 41-42% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility > Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. > Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank > And yet, noone did that. You wanna know why? Well, I already explained to you before why, but you just keep trying to ignore that and repeat the same nonsense, so how about this: Make that build. Try it out yourself. You might learn a thing or three. Among them why that build is bad, and why in-combat stealth is bad. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I am going to compare eles to thieves and mesmers in a 1 dimension way too and say that it's very unfair for thieves & mesmers to have access to spammable stealth, which has literally 0 counterplay and makes everything you do from landing your attacks to surviving/escaping 100000x easier, so either stealth needs to be heavily nerfed to become unusable or eles needs a huge buff by giving them access to spammable stealth :) :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > > > > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > > > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > > > > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. > > > > 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P > > That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P > > You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P > > > > It was also, as I had pointed out, bugged and did more damage than intended. And despite your pleading and desperate repetition of "The Ele totally has to be in melee and cant proc LR from range !!!1!1!", thats also wrong. They can. They usually dont, but neither do Headshot thieves. There is no reason why Lightning Rod should ever do more damage than PI, given that its easier to proc *and* gives weakness ontop of that. > > > 2) So you cast out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.) just for the only 1 fear ? > > Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? > > Have you thought for a second why they might not restealth in-combat? Maybe something to do with in-combat stealth being bad and not worth going for? > > > And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? > > Why, oh why, I wonder. Hm. Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly, that is also at its best when used for in-combat stealth that, as we have established, is *really* bad. Hm. > > > You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 41-42% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility > > Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. > > Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank > > > > And yet, noone did that. You wanna know why? Well, I already explained to you before why, but you just keep trying to ignore that and repeat the same nonsense, so how about this: Make that build. Try it out yourself. You might learn a thing or three. Among them why that build is bad, and why in-combat stealth is bad. Good luck. What kind of mentality is that ? ''**Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly**'' Have you thought for a sec , that you can change one trait Flickering Shadows , instead of of a 2k damage spell (Leeching Venoms) and combine them with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil , to have a proper Bruser build and you DONT DIE easily ? The mobility wont be nerfed.... You see GW2 system is more flexible than other games ....and traits can transforman Assasin into a Bruser . Must you wait of Caed (Sirinder is not good sorry) to showcase it to his video ? And why you use Shadow arts then ? For a 2k spell (Leeching Venoms) and 1 sec fear (Rending Shade) , that you are going to use it only once ? Isnt this kinda moronic ? There are better spells in Acros or any other Attacking traitline Just step back .... take a breath ...think over it .... Its the ''myopia''effect we where talking .... i cannot think corectly when my main is Enginner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > > > > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > > > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > > > > > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > > > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > > > > > > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. > > > > > > 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P > > > That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P > > > You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P > > > > > > > It was also, as I had pointed out, bugged and did more damage than intended. And despite your pleading and desperate repetition of "The Ele totally has to be in melee and cant proc LR from range !!!1!1!", thats also wrong. They can. They usually dont, but neither do Headshot thieves. There is no reason why Lightning Rod should ever do more damage than PI, given that its easier to proc *and* gives weakness ontop of that. > > > > > 2) So you cast out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.) just for the only 1 fear ? > > > Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? > > > > Have you thought for a second why they might not restealth in-combat? Maybe something to do with in-combat stealth being bad and not worth going for? > > > > > And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? > > > > Why, oh why, I wonder. Hm. Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly, that is also at its best when used for in-combat stealth that, as we have established, is *really* bad. Hm. > > > > > You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 41-42% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility > > > Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. > > > Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank > > > > > > > And yet, noone did that. You wanna know why? Well, I already explained to you before why, but you just keep trying to ignore that and repeat the same nonsense, so how about this: Make that build. Try it out yourself. You might learn a thing or three. Among them why that build is bad, and why in-combat stealth is bad. Good luck. > > What kind of mentality is that ? > ''Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly'' > Have you thought for a sec , that you can change one trait Flickering Shadows , instead of of a 2k damage spell (Leeching Venoms) and combine them with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil , to have a proper Bruser build and you DONT DIE easily ? > You see GW2 system is more flexible than other games ....and traits can transforman Assasin into a Bruser . > Must you wait of Caed (Sirinder is not good sorry) to showcase it to his video ? > What, do you think people didnt experiment with that? I told you to go play the build because I already explained to you why the build fails, but youre ignoring it. Go on. Do it. Learn what others have learned before you. > And why you use Shadow arts then ? For a 2k spell (Leeching Venoms) and 1 sec fear ? > Isnt this kinda moronic ? > There are better spells in Acros or any other Attacking traitline > Why do you keep talking about a class you clearly dont know or understand at all? The answer is that there *arent* better traits in other traitlines. I mean, what are you going to use? Critical Strikes? Hardly, most of those traits stop being active like 1 second into the fight. They help bursting a little bit, but not nearly by enough, and it has no utility. Acrobatics? I know youre obsessed with that traitline, but its *bad*. It was always bad on D/P, but now its bad even on S/D. The only option would be DA over SA, but DA is also not really worth it. You barely get damage from it. > Just step back .... take a breath ...think over it .... > Its the ''myopia''effect we where talking .... i cannot think corectly when my main is Enginner > The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. So once again. Try playing thief. Learn what the class does, and doesnt do. Learn why the traits that are being picked are, and why the traits you are so obsessed with arent being picked at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > > > > > > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > > > > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > > > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > > > > > > > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > > > > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > > > > > > > > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. > > > > > > > > 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P > > > > That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P > > > > You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P > > > > > > > > > > It was also, as I had pointed out, bugged and did more damage than intended. And despite your pleading and desperate repetition of "The Ele totally has to be in melee and cant proc LR from range !!!1!1!", thats also wrong. They can. They usually dont, but neither do Headshot thieves. There is no reason why Lightning Rod should ever do more damage than PI, given that its easier to proc *and* gives weakness ontop of that. > > > > > > > 2) So you cast out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.) just for the only 1 fear ? > > > > Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? > > > > > > Have you thought for a second why they might not restealth in-combat? Maybe something to do with in-combat stealth being bad and not worth going for? > > > > > > > And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? > > > > > > Why, oh why, I wonder. Hm. Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly, that is also at its best when used for in-combat stealth that, as we have established, is *really* bad. Hm. > > > > > > > You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 41-42% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility > > > > Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. > > > > Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank > > > > > > > > > > And yet, noone did that. You wanna know why? Well, I already explained to you before why, but you just keep trying to ignore that and repeat the same nonsense, so how about this: Make that build. Try it out yourself. You might learn a thing or three. Among them why that build is bad, and why in-combat stealth is bad. Good luck. > > > > What kind of mentality is that ? > > ''Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly'' > > Have you thought for a sec , that you can change one trait Flickering Shadows , instead of of a 2k damage spell (Leeching Venoms) and combine them with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil , to have a proper Bruser build and you DONT DIE easily ? > > You see GW2 system is more flexible than other games ....and traits can transforman Assasin into a Bruser . > > Must you wait of Caed (Sirinder is not good sorry) to showcase it to his video ? > > > > What, do you think people didnt experiment with that? I told you to go play the build because I already explained to you why the build fails, but youre ignoring it. Go on. Do it. Learn what others have learned before you. > > > And why you use Shadow arts then ? For a 2k spell (Leeching Venoms) and 1 sec fear ? > > Isnt this kinda moronic ? > > There are better spells in Acros or any other Attacking traitline > > > > Why do you keep talking about a class you clearly dont know or understand at all? The answer is that there *arent* better traits in other traitlines. I mean, what are you going to use? Critical Strikes? Hardly, most of those traits stop being active like 1 second into the fight. They help bursting a little bit, but not nearly by enough, and it has no utility. Acrobatics? I know youre obsessed with that traitline, but its *bad*. It was always bad on D/P, but now its bad even on S/D. The only option would be DA over SA, but DA is also not really worth it. You barely get damage from it. > > > Just step back .... take a breath ...think over it .... > > Its the ''myopia''effect we where talking .... i cannot think corectly when my main is Enginner > > > > The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. So once again. Try playing thief. Learn what the class does, and doesnt do. Learn why the traits that are being picked are, and why the traits you are so obsessed with arent being picked at all. 1) You didnt explain it . You think is that thief is +1 assasin yolo 420 . Which a simple button ..... boom you are Bruser ...with the same mobility ...the only thing you are loosing is 2k 2) If Shadow Arts offer only 2k (Leaching) and 1 sec fear (which you wont restealth , so you wont get the benefit again...which is kinda moronic)....... why dont use a traitline that offer more Survibility ... or offensive ones like Executioner, or No Quarter +Practiced Tolerance for some extra damage . Why you punish yourself ? Cant you think out of the box ? Youmst follow what ppl use on Metabattle site ? Have you capped out in the theorocrafting ? Its 1 change of traits .... you are not going to get married ..... its not that stressfull ! 3)The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. brb movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > > > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > > > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > > > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > > > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > > > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > > > > > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > > > > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > > > > > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > > > > > > > > > > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. > > > > > > > > > > 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P > > > > > That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P > > > > > You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was also, as I had pointed out, bugged and did more damage than intended. And despite your pleading and desperate repetition of "The Ele totally has to be in melee and cant proc LR from range !!!1!1!", thats also wrong. They can. They usually dont, but neither do Headshot thieves. There is no reason why Lightning Rod should ever do more damage than PI, given that its easier to proc *and* gives weakness ontop of that. > > > > > > > > > 2) So you cast out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.) just for the only 1 fear ? > > > > > Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? > > > > > > > > Have you thought for a second why they might not restealth in-combat? Maybe something to do with in-combat stealth being bad and not worth going for? > > > > > > > > > And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? > > > > > > > > Why, oh why, I wonder. Hm. Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly, that is also at its best when used for in-combat stealth that, as we have established, is *really* bad. Hm. > > > > > > > > > You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 41-42% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility > > > > > Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. > > > > > Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, noone did that. You wanna know why? Well, I already explained to you before why, but you just keep trying to ignore that and repeat the same nonsense, so how about this: Make that build. Try it out yourself. You might learn a thing or three. Among them why that build is bad, and why in-combat stealth is bad. Good luck. > > > > > > What kind of mentality is that ? > > > ''Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly'' > > > Have you thought for a sec , that you can change one trait Flickering Shadows , instead of of a 2k damage spell (Leeching Venoms) and combine them with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil , to have a proper Bruser build and you DONT DIE easily ? > > > You see GW2 system is more flexible than other games ....and traits can transforman Assasin into a Bruser . > > > Must you wait of Caed (Sirinder is not good sorry) to showcase it to his video ? > > > > > > > What, do you think people didnt experiment with that? I told you to go play the build because I already explained to you why the build fails, but youre ignoring it. Go on. Do it. Learn what others have learned before you. > > > > > And why you use Shadow arts then ? For a 2k spell (Leeching Venoms) and 1 sec fear ? > > > Isnt this kinda moronic ? > > > There are better spells in Acros or any other Attacking traitline > > > > > > > Why do you keep talking about a class you clearly dont know or understand at all? The answer is that there *arent* better traits in other traitlines. I mean, what are you going to use? Critical Strikes? Hardly, most of those traits stop being active like 1 second into the fight. They help bursting a little bit, but not nearly by enough, and it has no utility. Acrobatics? I know youre obsessed with that traitline, but its *bad*. It was always bad on D/P, but now its bad even on S/D. The only option would be DA over SA, but DA is also not really worth it. You barely get damage from it. > > > > > Just step back .... take a breath ...think over it .... > > > Its the ''myopia''effect we where talking .... i cannot think corectly when my main is Enginner > > > > > > > The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. So once again. Try playing thief. Learn what the class does, and doesnt do. Learn why the traits that are being picked are, and why the traits you are so obsessed with arent being picked at all. > > 1) You didnt explain it . You think is that thief is +1 assasin yolo 420 . > Which a simple button ..... boom you are Bruser ...with the same mobility ...the only thing you are loosing is 2k > Alright, let me explain it *one last time*. So, why not? Because you aren just "suddenly a bruiser". Think about it for just a tiny bit. You get 3 seconds of 33% reduced power damage. Alright, cool. Only problem is, youre still a berserker build, and it only reduces power damage, not condi damage. You still cant face-tank, since people overkill you by way more than 33%. Your survivability does not change in any meaningful way. On the other hand you lose a good chunk of damage, and you lose the utility of poison, plus potentially a bit of lifeleeching (usually not relevant). Its simply a bad trait. You wouldve realised that, had you tried playing with it. > 2) If Shadow Arts offer only 2k (Leaching) and 1 sec fear (which you wont restealth , so you wont get the benefit again...which is kinda moronic)....... why dont use a traitline that offer more Survibility ... or offensive ones like Executioner, or No Quarter +Practiced Tolerance for some extra damage . > Why you punish yourself ? Cant you think out of the box ? Youmst follow what ppl use on Metabattle site ? Have you capped out in the theorocrafting ? > There isnt a traitline that offers more survivability. And besides, it offers damage and utility, in the form of poison, boonrip, and fear. Plus a single condi-clear on your healing skill. Cant completely forget that. As for offense, let me get over the others. So, why not Executioner? Simple, it only applies when the enemy is already getting destroyed. The damage becomes redundant. Thats why people pick Improvisation over Executioners, even now. Why not No Quarter + Practised Tolerance? As I said, the problem is that the CS traits deactivate quickly. Take for example no quarter. Its only useful if youre under fury. The problem is, your ways of obtaining fury are incredibly limited. So what happens if your initial fury gets ripped or corrupted? Well, No Quarter does nothing for the next 10 seconds. Pretty useless. Practised Tolerance is the only one that does anything, and its problem is that it doesnt do enough. You get a very minor damage boost, but lose a lot of utility and reliability. So, why do people not use those? Because theyre worse. Its as simple as that. Its funny that you think that, as someone who has never played thief and doesnt know the *first* thing about playing thief, you know better than thief players. People have tried every single think you came up with before. They have tried it out, saw it was a lot worse, and discarded it. So, now I have explained it *again*. Before you reply again, make sure you at least do some research, or better yet, play thief yourself. As I said, your lack of knowledge makes discussion impossible. But then again, you also think Sindrener, the best thief in the world, "isnt good", but a guy who hasnt played GW2 in *years* is. > 3)The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. > Repeating the truth when its no longer true still doesnt work yknow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojo.6590 Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Avatar.3568" said: > Why are you actually comparing only different skills of different classes, they have all a different base health pools, utilities, movement etc... > > Just comparing skills will not bring any solution I guess I'll reveal my turn intentions then, fair question. See these types of comparisons were done against Mesmer, which are a major outlier for why its playing in the current state it is (unplayable for this most part, really removing a dodge?!). So if using this type of argument to advocate a nerf for one class is wrong, then why has it been allowed to be used against other classes...ironically several of the people in this very thread have done this. Guess it's not fair when it's used against you. I love the miss use of information too and flat out open class bias going around as well (hopefully the Devs keep this in mind on the next round of nerfs/buffs, probably not though. Seeing how the "knowledgeable community" of the forums has been dictating the direction of Nerfs and Buffs). It still stands I make a fair point, and this does not just apply to these classes nor these traits alone. Interrupting someone requires more set up and investment/time then simply disabling someone (simply spam your CCs to trigger the trait/proc the effect). So, traits and abilities that reward someone for interrupting should offer to an extent a greater reward than those that only require you to CC someone. (By the way, wasting a CC in hopes to interrupt an auto-attack is straight-up stupid, but then again if someone is going to mindlessly spam their auto why not punish them for it ;) ). What I would like to see would be an internal cooldown on LR, say 3 seconds. The base damage of PB brought down by 15-30% and then allowing it to crit. And lastly to have PI crit, though you could also lower its based damage in fairness but its already so low that it's negligible. Another option would be to just buff its damage. Depending on how high the damage is after this change to PI, I'd look into an internal cooldown of 1-2 seconds. And yes, for those of you that are wondering and have seen my post before, I do not acknowledge people that use misinformation to support their arguments. Just in case, I do play Mesmer, Elementalist, and Thief. Edit: Grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > Why are you actually comparing only different skills of different classes, they have all a different base health pools, utilities, movement etc... > > > > Just comparing skills will not bring any solution > > I guess I'll reveal my turn intentions then, fair question. See these types of comparisons were done against Mesmer, which are a major outlier for why its playing in the current state it is (unplayable for this most part, really removing a dodge?!). So if using this type of argument to advocate a nerf for one class is wrong, then why has it been allowed to be used against other classes...ironically several of the people in this very thread have done this. Guess it's not fair when it's used against you. I love the miss use of information too and flat out open class bias going around as well (hopefully the Devs keep this in mind on the next round of nerfs/buffs, probably not though. Seeing how the "knowledgeable community" of the forums has been dictating the direction of Nerfs and Buffs). > It still stands I make a fair point, and this does not just apply to these classes nor these traits alone. Interrupting someone requires more set up and investment/time then simply disabling someone (simply spam your CCs to trigger the trait/proc the effect). So, traits and abilities that reward someone for interrupting should offer to an extent a greater reward than those that only require you to CC someone. (By the way, wasting a CC in hopes to interrupt an auto-attack is straight-up stupid, but then again if someone is going to mindlessly spam their auto why not punish them for it ;) ). > What I would like to see would be an internal cooldown on LR, say 3 seconds. The base damage of PB brought down by 15-30% and then allowing it to crit. And lastly to have PI crit, though you could also lower its based damage in fairness but its already so low that it's negligible. Depending on how high the damage is after this change to PI, I'd look into an internal cooldown of 1-2 seconds. > And yes, for those of you that are wondering and have seen my post before, I do not acknowledge people that use misinformation to support their arguments. Just in case, I do play Mesmer, Elementalist, and Thief. > > Edit: Grammar. Even if PI would crit, it would still not be playable. Just rever the latest nerf (And rever the previous unintentional nerf), and it should be fine-ish as a trait. Maybe still on the weaker side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojo.6590 Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > > Why are you actually comparing only different skills of different classes, they have all a different base health pools, utilities, movement etc... > > > > > > Just comparing skills will not bring any solution > > > > I guess I'll reveal my turn intentions then, fair question. See these types of comparisons were done against Mesmer, which are a major outlier for why its playing in the current state it is (unplayable for this most part, really removing a dodge?!). So if using this type of argument to advocate a nerf for one class is wrong, then why has it been allowed to be used against other classes...ironically several of the people in this very thread have done this. Guess it's not fair when it's used against you. I love the miss use of information too and flat out open class bias going around as well (hopefully the Devs keep this in mind on the next round of nerfs/buffs, probably not though. Seeing how the "knowledgeable community" of the forums has been dictating the direction of Nerfs and Buffs). > > It still stands I make a fair point, and this does not just apply to these classes nor these traits alone. Interrupting someone requires more set up and investment/time then simply disabling someone (simply spam your CCs to trigger the trait/proc the effect). So, traits and abilities that reward someone for interrupting should offer to an extent a greater reward than those that only require you to CC someone. (By the way, wasting a CC in hopes to interrupt an auto-attack is straight-up stupid, but then again if someone is going to mindlessly spam their auto why not punish them for it ;) ). > > What I would like to see would be an internal cooldown on LR, say 3 seconds. The base damage of PB brought down by 15-30% and then allowing it to crit. And lastly to have PI crit, though you could also lower its based damage in fairness but its already so low that it's negligible. Depending on how high the damage is after this change to PI, I'd look into an internal cooldown of 1-2 seconds. > > And yes, for those of you that are wondering and have seen my post before, I do not acknowledge people that use misinformation to support their arguments. Just in case, I do play Mesmer, Elementalist, and Thief. > > > > Edit: Grammar. > > Even if PI would crit, it would still not be playable. Just rever the latest nerf (And rever the previous unintentional nerf), and it should be fine-ish as a trait. Maybe still on the weaker side. Fair point, I'll add that in as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > > > > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > > > > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > > > > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > > > > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > > > > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > > > > > > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > > > > > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > > > > > > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P > > > > > > That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P > > > > > > You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was also, as I had pointed out, bugged and did more damage than intended. And despite your pleading and desperate repetition of "The Ele totally has to be in melee and cant proc LR from range !!!1!1!", thats also wrong. They can. They usually dont, but neither do Headshot thieves. There is no reason why Lightning Rod should ever do more damage than PI, given that its easier to proc *and* gives weakness ontop of that. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) So you cast out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.) just for the only 1 fear ? > > > > > > Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? > > > > > > > > > > Have you thought for a second why they might not restealth in-combat? Maybe something to do with in-combat stealth being bad and not worth going for? > > > > > > > > > > > And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? > > > > > > > > > > Why, oh why, I wonder. Hm. Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly, that is also at its best when used for in-combat stealth that, as we have established, is *really* bad. Hm. > > > > > > > > > > > You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 41-42% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility > > > > > > Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. > > > > > > Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, noone did that. You wanna know why? Well, I already explained to you before why, but you just keep trying to ignore that and repeat the same nonsense, so how about this: Make that build. Try it out yourself. You might learn a thing or three. Among them why that build is bad, and why in-combat stealth is bad. Good luck. > > > > > > > > What kind of mentality is that ? > > > > ''Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly'' > > > > Have you thought for a sec , that you can change one trait Flickering Shadows , instead of of a 2k damage spell (Leeching Venoms) and combine them with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil , to have a proper Bruser build and you DONT DIE easily ? > > > > You see GW2 system is more flexible than other games ....and traits can transforman Assasin into a Bruser . > > > > Must you wait of Caed (Sirinder is not good sorry) to showcase it to his video ? > > > > > > > > > > What, do you think people didnt experiment with that? I told you to go play the build because I already explained to you why the build fails, but youre ignoring it. Go on. Do it. Learn what others have learned before you. > > > > > > > And why you use Shadow arts then ? For a 2k spell (Leeching Venoms) and 1 sec fear ? > > > > Isnt this kinda moronic ? > > > > There are better spells in Acros or any other Attacking traitline > > > > > > > > > > Why do you keep talking about a class you clearly dont know or understand at all? The answer is that there *arent* better traits in other traitlines. I mean, what are you going to use? Critical Strikes? Hardly, most of those traits stop being active like 1 second into the fight. They help bursting a little bit, but not nearly by enough, and it has no utility. Acrobatics? I know youre obsessed with that traitline, but its *bad*. It was always bad on D/P, but now its bad even on S/D. The only option would be DA over SA, but DA is also not really worth it. You barely get damage from it. > > > > > > > Just step back .... take a breath ...think over it .... > > > > Its the ''myopia''effect we where talking .... i cannot think corectly when my main is Enginner > > > > > > > > > > The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. So once again. Try playing thief. Learn what the class does, and doesnt do. Learn why the traits that are being picked are, and why the traits you are so obsessed with arent being picked at all. > > > > 1) You didnt explain it . You think is that thief is +1 assasin yolo 420 . > > Which a simple button ..... boom you are Bruser ...with the same mobility ...the only thing you are loosing is 2k > > > > Alright, let me explain it *one last time*. So, why not? Because you aren just "suddenly a bruiser". Think about it for just a tiny bit. You get 3 seconds of 33% reduced power damage. Alright, cool. Only problem is, youre still a berserker build, and it only reduces power damage, not condi damage. You still cant face-tank, since people overkill you by way more than 33%. Your survivability does not change in any meaningful way. On the other hand you lose a good chunk of damage, and you lose the utility of poison, plus potentially a bit of lifeleeching (usually not relevant). Its simply a bad trait. You wouldve realised that, had you tried playing with it. > > > 2) If Shadow Arts offer only 2k (Leaching) and 1 sec fear (which you wont restealth , so you wont get the benefit again...which is kinda moronic)....... why dont use a traitline that offer more Survibility ... or offensive ones like Executioner, or No Quarter +Practiced Tolerance for some extra damage . > > Why you punish yourself ? Cant you think out of the box ? Youmst follow what ppl use on Metabattle site ? Have you capped out in the theorocrafting ? > > > > There isnt a traitline that offers more survivability. And besides, it offers damage and utility, in the form of poison, boonrip, and fear. Plus a single condi-clear on your healing skill. Cant completely forget that. As for offense, let me get over the others. So, why not Executioner? Simple, it only applies when the enemy is already getting destroyed. The damage becomes redundant. Thats why people pick Improvisation over Executioners, even now. Why not No Quarter + Practised Tolerance? As I said, the problem is that the CS traits deactivate quickly. Take for example no quarter. Its only useful if youre under fury. The problem is, your ways of obtaining fury are incredibly limited. So what happens if your initial fury gets ripped or corrupted? Well, No Quarter does nothing for the next 10 seconds. Pretty useless. Practised Tolerance is the only one that does anything, and its problem is that it doesnt do enough. You get a very minor damage boost, but lose a lot of utility and reliability. > > So, why do people not use those? Because theyre worse. Its as simple as that. Its funny that you think that, as someone who has never played thief and doesnt know the *first* thing about playing thief, you know better than thief players. People have tried every single think you came up with before. They have tried it out, saw it was a lot worse, and discarded it. So, now I have explained it *again*. Before you reply again, make sure you at least do some research, or better yet, play thief yourself. As I said, your lack of knowledge makes discussion impossible. But then again, you also think Sindrener, the best thief in the world, "isnt good", but a guy who hasnt played GW2 in *years* is. > > > 3)The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. > > > > Repeating the truth when its no longer true still doesnt work yknow? > 1) You really lack immagination You get 33% damage reduction for 4 sec (as the reveale last in pvp) and if you try restealth+ attack ...or restealth+interupted ...you still get the effect . Its ok if you dont know some thief mechanics ...just ask...i dont even know some Enginners ones . Combining with Weakening Strikes + Marauder's Resilience => you will be boosted in 45% damage reduction . If you have problems with Conditions you can drop Marauder's Resilience (-10% damage reduction) and get Escapist's Fortitude (condition removal on evades) + Shadow's Embrace fromthe Shadow Arts you love 2) About not haviing Fury for No Quarter + Practised Tolerance , you can use Rune of Rage (PvP) that is constadly reaply in combat Fury incease your total damage too , and is a MUST have boon to be had . Having 60% crit from Amulets+ 20% from the Fury = its 80% crit Something in the past in the Mesmer thread , you whined that Thief have an average 16.000 burst , because not all attacks will crit Deadly Arts with Mug (2000 damage) + Lotus Poison>perma Weakness on the enemy (doing the Dagger auto attack sequence) + + Revealed Training (200 attack power) + Exposed Weakness (if your necro team8 , have contitioned a target + Executioner (in a teamfight if the enemy is 50% ...which most cases there are ...you get +20% to increase damage (such as Backstab) ..........Its a lot better than Shadow Art 2k + 1 fear (because you personaly dont like to restealth 3)Repeating the truth when its no longer true still doesnt work yknow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Poelala.2830" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that thief and Mesmer have viable options other than those traits, ele doesn’t really have viable options. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not that thief has viable options *other* than PI, its that PI isnt a viable option at all. Sides, its not really "options". If youre Staff thief, you pick Staff Master. If youre not, you pick Havoc Mastery. End of story. For that matter, Ele also has Fresh Air as a very good option. Bolt to the Heart, less so I suppose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must scurcifice (dont get) a defensive trait , in order to get Air traitline and unlock Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he is weakened , with less survibility . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Havoc Mastery, Staff Master., PI are options is an overload traitline , that allows you to unlock new Weapons+new utilies in the same time .(**this has to change for all elite specializations**) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Move them to to Criticals Strike or the Power traitline and rename + buff them (like restore the 2800 crit of old PI). That way Core Thiefs + Deadeye will have options to get higher damage , by choosing them too > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And D/P must sacrifice a defensive traitline to get Daredevil. Or another offensive one they would like to run. Your point being? And Daredevil is hardly an "overloaded" traitline, if anything, since its unique gimmick takes up the grandmaster slot, and the second slot is basically a minor trait, its an underloaded traitline. You could move PI, but they would make no sense in the other traitlines, or have to replace already good options. So its not really an option. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm comparing Lighting Rod to both Pulmonary Impact (Thief, DD trait) and Power block (Mesmer trait). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, let's make sure we're on the same page. It is 100x more easy to disable someone (ie CC them) verses to interrupt them (CC someone while they're casting a skill thus preventing the skill from being cast). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The traits: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lighting rod: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulmonary Impact: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Power Block: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The requirements to trigger both Pulmonary Impact (PI) and Power Block (PB) are much more difficult to accomplish than that of Lighting Rod (LR). LR can crit where both PI and PB can not. I find this to be ludicrous that a trait that requires less investment/ effort to land is able to crit, whilst the other two do not. Given PB does do around 1k damage on its own and applies weakness + puts a 15s cooldown on the skill you interrupt, 3x longer than usual too, PB not criting is more reasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either LR needs a crazy nerf that will make it unusable (which I honestly do not want, really) or both PB (a light buff) and PI (a major buff) both need buffs to bring them in line based on the greater difficulty required to trigger them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Editt-Grammar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot : D/P 444-111111-4444...if low swap to shortbow and 5555 or 5-2 ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Pain : /pistol...stealth - charge mantra..pewpew..defense rotation galore..stealth..charge mantra...ez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Spoken like someone who has never played D/P thief and hasnt got the faintest clue about it. Oh sure, you could try playing D/P thief like that. You would just be utterly *useless* as more than half of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. Also, shortbow 5 is the teleport, you dont spam that. And if youre low on initiative, shortbow wont be doing anything (swapping weapons doesnt restore initiative). D/P headshot thief was anything but easy. Likewise Power Block Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reqs to play thief or mesmer will remain lower regardless of the discussion, the rage and the mockering. Again for the last time nerfing LR won't change anything because ele is already mediocre to start with...**outside the meme niche** role in pvp nobody uses LR, we don't need hundred threads asking to nerf a subpar trait used by a meme glass cannon build in a dead gamemode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your rage and mocking, the reqs to play Headshot thief or Powerblock mesmer are *much* higher than LR Ele. You need to actually time things, not to mention the inherent difficulty associated with roaming classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite your mocking , Ele must go in meele range ...in the heat of the battle to cc , where even aoe Slow or Blind field can mess them from proccing the cc . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Thief used PI from afar , without worring about about cc-aoes or staying on the base . Even if they where reflected , their shot wouldn't proc on them the PI , because Headshot spamm dont have a cast time > cannot be interupted > cannot proc PI . They only will get dazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer Powerblock is balanced in my eyes , because you can use 3 times and one of your Utilities is occupied by it ...and if we say that they have the teleport utility ...then there is 1 Utilities spot remaining + 1 elite to worry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah yes, Eles well known Melee CCs. Like Comet. No wait, that one is ranged. Uh, Gale? Nope, that one is ranged as well. I guess Shocking Aura is melee, but it also makes you quite safe in melee. And then there is Tornado. Yeah that one is melee, I suppose. So, thats almost entirely ranged CC, with one melee CC (and even that one has a dash you use to dash through). Now thief had 2 forms. Headshot, and of course Steal, which also put them in melee range. Also, I dont know what to tell you, but D/P thieves went in melee range all the time. You needed the extra damage from autos, and reducing the travel time made lower cast time skills more interruptible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: PI , interupting auto attacks and spells and proccing from afar ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah ...... no...compared to that , Ele's ccing requiring more skils , switch/dancing Attunements in the correct senquence ...rather than pushing spamm 1-2 bottuns . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heck even Mesmers is better ...or Guardians are more skilled than that ... where you must push 6-7 buttons correctly ...like a piano . That why in the lower tiers , its harder to execute for these classes and we have less whined , compared to other classes (thief cought*, or assasins in all games ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha, hardly. You didnt interrupt autos, you interrupt high value skills. You also didnt do it from afar. And if you think that Headshot thieves just "spammed the button", then you clearly havent got the *slightest* clue about D/P thief. You know what would happen if you do that? You would be useless as most of your headshots are 4 initiative: do 200 damage. No, Eles CCing was *much* easier. No timing required. Just use whatever CC you want whenever you want. No looking for tells, no careful timing, just use away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... ok I know you havent got the *faintest* clue about thief. You have made that abundantly clear. But thinking that thief has a lower execution barrier than Guardian, or Ele? God thats hilarious. There is a reason why thief sucks in lower tiers, because people dont know how to play it. And D/P thief made that 10 times worse. You did not see anyone in the lower tiers play D/P Headshot thief well because they simply couldnt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Headshot D/P thief was far more skilled than Ele, let alone *guardian*. Its not how many buttons you have to press, but how much you need to time and prepare. Im playing Engineer right now, where I have to press the most buttons, and Id still say its easier than D/P headshot thief. By a wide margin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) AHAHAHAAH D/P MUST SUCRIFICE A DEFENSIVE TRAITLINE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the ones aid in various posts , that thief dont use the overnerfed Shadow Arts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ele must sucrifice 2 traitlines then , to do dam,age and use various underpowered weapons to do cc:P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either, or. It means one of the two options. Thieves used to not use Shadow Arts. They certainly are using it now (though "defensive" is slightly incorrect, its utility). Or they sacrifice another damage traitline. Ele has to sacrifice ... well they dont actually sacrifice anything. Its the only offensive traitline they run, usually power builds have to run 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 ) ahahahaahahh Comet and Gales have 0.75 sec cd , its the most obvious thing to dodge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And having those 2 in 25/40 cd , its the reason why you whining about the Air cc trait ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When did the headshot travel speed slowed down ? It is the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Youre going off-topic here. Your claim was that their CC was melee. I have just shown its not melee. You were wrong. Nothing more to add here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) If the enemy used ANY TIME OF CASTING SPELL INCLUDING THE AUTO ATTACK , you get the 2800 + interupt for 5 sec to that spell . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If he would do anything INCLUDING AUTO ATTACK, he would be punished for 20% of his hp . if he did a crusial; attack in that time , he would get a 5 interupt + 20% hp loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "2800". I keep being surprised by how big you talk about a class you clearly hate to such a degree it introduces major bias into your talk, but cant even be bothered to do 5 minutes of research to check if what youre saying isnt complete nonsense. PI did not hit for 2800 pre-patch. 2800 for 4 initiative is also quite little. Shadowshot does around 3k, with no conditions required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AHAHAHAHA HEAD SHOT was more skilled than ele or guard , which actually have to push 6-7 bottuns > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, so more buttons = more skilled? kitten, I didnt know GW2 was so much more skilled than CS:GO, no wonder its got a much bigger esports scene. But no, that logic is simply put, stupid. More buttons to press does not make a class more skilled. Timing adds a lot more than just more buttons. There is no denying that Head Shot thief was a lot more skilled than LR Ele is, let alone guardian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good for you playing Enginner :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a ''myopia'' which is called class favoritism ... and avoid discussionto protect my class . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something you should do too :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have a different one. "Irrational hatred of thief to the point that you refuse to even do any research or step back and at any point think if what youre saying makes any sense". You keep talking about thief and trying to make it out much stronger than it is, without even knowing the first thing about thief. You should avoid discussions about thieves until you actually learn a bit more about the class. As I said, thief isnt my class anymore. Im on Engineer. Im just not irrationally hating thief like oyu are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Ele dont sucrifice anything ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you believe they wouldnt love to get the Earth attument (cannot be crit , when in Earth stance) + Water + Arcane (for offensive + defensive traits )? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you asking "would a power build love to be able to also be a full bunker at the same time"? In which case, thats a silly question. Yeah Id love to also be able to pick up Inventions and Firearms on my core Nade Engineer. But that doesnt mean I am giving up either. Compared to other power variants of the same class, Im not really giving up anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) ALL OF THEIR CC must be dont whine they go in the middle of the battle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the old comming here with some underpowered spells with high cd+ cast time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You were wrong.Nothing more to add here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what the first sentence is supposed to say. But I assume youre arguing that LR Eles goes into melee range? Yeah, they do. They dont have to to proc LR, but much like D/P Headshot thief, that would make you miss out on way too much extra damage. But so does D/P Headshot thief. You stayed in melee range on that spec as well, for the exact same reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) PI did 2800 + 550 from the Headshot = 3300 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is 18% of the warrior hp , or 30% of the eles hp (11000) ... And its ranged , avoiding any meele combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating a wrong statement doesnt lend it credibility. It just makes it clear you havent got a clue. PI pre-patch did not ever hit for 2800. Usually it hit for 1100 tops, and most of the time less than that. I also find it interesting that you think Ele is using no vitality at all. Or Rune of Divinity. I mean its not surprising, you know nothing about thief, so it would stand to reason you probably know nothing about any class you dont play, but still. Ill give you at least this much, you managed to not get the headshot damage wrong. You did get everything else wrong, including (especially) the "avoiding any meele combat", which no, D/P Thief didnt avoid melee combat, it went right in, but hey, you managed to only be 80% wrong instead of 100%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)AHAHAAHHA HEADSHOT IS MORE SKILLED THAN ELEMENTALIST IS ....AHAHAHHAHAH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maniacally laughing at the truth is not a good sign. You might want to calm down, youre starting to act a bit mad. Though judging by the fact that you didnt answer the CS:GO comment, Im assuming you realised that your argument fails and that you were wrong, but didnt want to admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) I am not irational . You are trying to shut down otherppl , without using the facts i am telling you about . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its like you are hiding them :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are irrational. Youre not showing any "facts", just falsehoods you *wish* were facts. You know, "facts" like PI critting (it was never able to crit), doing 2800 damage (it couldn't do even close to that damage pre-patch), Headshot thieves staying at range (they went in melee pretty much the entire time. If you want to do ranged pressure on a thief, you use shortbow), Eles only having 11000 health (Theyre usually at 19000-21000 using Rune of Divinity and Marauders, with the extra vitality from Earth attunement sometimes), etc. etc. Really, its easier to say what you *didnt* get wrong. The headshot damage. Thats the only thing you got right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to chat (look at these numerouspost in various threads) and i want to improvemy english vocabulaty(because in 2 month, i take some exams):P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I want is to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1)You are doing the same thing atm . > > > > > > > > > > > > > You dont want eles to be Power and Bunkers in the same time , but you want Thief to buffed up theirattacks , but in same time to retain and use 2 defensive + Daredevil traitlines > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline theyre using, Shadow arts. And "defensive" is a stretch, its more utility. They would still be using 2 offensive and 1 utility traitline. *Very* far away from being bunkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Eles must do in the thick of the battle , to use their cc and maximize their damage output from the Air traitline . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Headshot can be used from afar , in a more safer distance > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is why some cc-spells doesnt do the same ammount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, repeating a false statement doesnt make it true. Ele doesnt have to do in battle, it can be used from afar. They dont typically do it, because you lose a lot of damage doing it that way. But the exact same thing is true for headshot D/P thief. It can do it from afar, but it didnt, because you lose a lot of damage that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You said many times , that they should reinstall the old damage of 3300 crit . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you lost track of our conversation and instead try use the same circular conversation you are doing to the others :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... I said that they should revert it to pre-patch numbers. And the actual ones. I dont know why youre unaware of this, but pre-patch PI did not hit for 3300. It also doesnt crit, and never has crit. The only one going circular here is you, as always. Trying to repeat the same false statement (after it was debunked) ad nauseam. It was false before. Its still false. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I am laughing because you are bring a CSgo argument in an MMO . > > > > > > > > > > > > > Telling me and other that Guardian+Eles is lower skillcap that Headshot Thieves . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your logic was, and I repeat "more buttons = more difficult". That logic (using the term loosely here) would apply in general, not just in MMOs. Meaning that CS:GO, a game that has very few buttons you press, must be a really easy game. Or hell, by that same logic WoWs PvP would be much harder than Dragon Nests as well. Spoiler: It was way easier. And yes, if youre laughing at the fact that guardian and ele had lower skillcap than headshot thieves, you are laughing at the truth. Its a bit bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill) > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3.28 multiplier was all across the PvE+PvP , up until it was rightfully nerfed at March 2018 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe get your facts right ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think pre-patch was 3.28? Thats 2 years ago, were talking about the version before this patch. Jeez. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Same , i want to have a conversation too about to make sure that people know the truth, and not falsehoods like the ones you perpetuate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Repeating the truth in an inapproriate context doesnt worke. I state no falsehoods. You do. I have already shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mister Mod ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Feline Grace + Endless Stamina + Assassin's Reward + Pain Response in the Acrobatic traitline , doesn't strike to me as an Offensive traitline . > > > > > > > > > > > Neither Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes => both 20% damage reduction combined . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uh, thief only has 1 defensive traitline **theyre using**". No thief is using Acrobatics, because its underpowered right now. And D/P never used it, because its not good for that build. Also whats your obsession with Assassins reward, that trait was never used, yet you keep bringing it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) This thread is about some cc's does not boffer the same amount of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats ... a non-sequitur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) You have been here for 4 years ... > > > > > > > > > > > You have made countless posts ... > > > > > > > > > > > And you still insist that PI didnt ever crit ? > > > > > > > > > > > And i am the one here , not knowing the Thief proffesion ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes? It never crit. Thats been its whole gimmick this entire time, it doesnt, and never did, crit. You can look up the patch notes or videos from the time, theyll show the same thing. Dunno why youre trying to lie about something easily verifiable, but I digress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Yeah i am lauging because i cannot fathom how two classes MUST do a combination of 6-7 buttons for their burst rotation .And another class , where even interupting a cast time Auto attack can punish the enemy for 18-30% of their hp as damage , with a single Strike is equal in skillcap ... > > > > > > > > > > > Thieves endless wisdom i guess ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me put it as bluntly as possible. First, more buttons pressed does not make anything harder. I have to press 6 buttons on Engineer to do the optimal grenade damage. But they almost all do the exact same thing. Its easy. Second, if the thief is interrupting auto attacks, not only is he playing it incorrectly, but his opponent also is if they cant punish it. Third, I have already debunked the "18-30% of their HP as damage, totes" thing. Its much lower. Now, why is D/P Headshot thief harder than those 2? Simple. Timing. The correct way of playing D/P thief, is to use Headshot only to interrupt high value skills, while using a combination of Shadowshot, stolen skills and bandits defense in-between. Some of those high-value skills have 0.5 second cast times, so you need to be incredibly fast to stop them (since Headshot has de facto a 0.25 second cast time). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now of course, its not surprising that you dont understand this since you thought you could just spam headshot and do well that way. But thats what happens when someone who doesnt know thief at all talks about thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) You said many times , that you want the old damage of PI . Which is a lot safer version of the Ele's Air Trait . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The old version being the prepatch 2.0. The actual 2.0. And I told you, repeating a false statement doesnt magically make it true. Its a lot less safe, because its unreliable and screwing up means losing a bunch of damage, while you have no real advantage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) I too have shown everything that I say to be true. You have only shown that you hope if you repeat a lie long enough, it magically becomes true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, like PI critting. No wait, thats false. Oh how about Acrobatics being a defensive traitline thieves use? Oh wait, no that one is false too. Uh, how about PI doing 2800 damage? That wasnt true either. D/P thieves staying at range, and just spamming headshot? Hoo boy, no, that one couldnt be *any* more wrong. No, as I said, the *only* true thing you have said is that headshot does about 550 damage when critting. Everything else was false. But its clear that you will repeat these falsehoods ad nauseam, hoping that if you do it long enough, they become true. Even though they have already debunked. So I only have this advice to you: Play thief for a bit. If it doesnt make you lose your irrational hatred, it at least will mean you know a tiny bit about thief, and wont make these grave errors over and over. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My mistake , i thought i could crit > > > > > > > > > Well it seem it did 4k and more no-crit damage since 2016 , from ranged ...and more than 18-30% of the initial estimation . > > > > > > > > > https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pulmonary-Impact-and-Impact-Strike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, that one was off of palm strike. It was also when it was buggy and did more damage than intended, sooo. And that version cant even be done from ranged. But no matter how much you plead and desperately try to repeat "Oh thieves used headshot from range!!!1!!1!", they didnt. D/P Headshot thief went in melee range ASAP to do damage off of shadowshots and autoattacks. Headshot was something you saved for important skills, so if you tried to do it from afar, you would simply be doing no damage 80% of the time and be utterly useless. Learn to accept that fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dont worry in 2 weeks we will analyze , why you took the Shadow arts .... while you are saying the combat ingame stealth is bad :P > > > > > > > > > You have my word , in a very extensive conversation :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... Because out of combat stealth exists, and the main reason to pick the traitline (And the reason it was picked then, but not before) was Rending Shade and Leeching Venoms that are both best in *out* of combat stealth scenarios? The fact that people picked Shadow Arts doesnt mean that in-combat stealth wasnt bad. Hell, the specific traits they picked make it clear that it was bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Not all thief on that forums used the palm strike :P > > > > > > > That why it was later reduces by 15% and an additional 29% in the following years :P > > > > > > > You are asking now that PI should have more damage , just ike the Air trait ...which you must be in meele and does 2500 damage :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was also, as I had pointed out, bugged and did more damage than intended. And despite your pleading and desperate repetition of "The Ele totally has to be in melee and cant proc LR from range !!!1!1!", thats also wrong. They can. They usually dont, but neither do Headshot thieves. There is no reason why Lightning Rod should ever do more damage than PI, given that its easier to proc *and* gives weakness ontop of that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) So you cast out of combat stealth and use Rending Shade (Steal boons from enemies you strike with stealth attacks. Striking a boonless foe with a stealth attack inflicts fear on nearby foes.) just for the only 1 fear ? > > > > > > > Have you thought for a sec that you can restealth and reply the effect , or remove crusial boons ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you thought for a second why they might not restealth in-combat? Maybe something to do with in-combat stealth being bad and not worth going for? > > > > > > > > > > > > > And instead of Leeching Venoms , why didnt you take Flickering Shadows for the 4 sec 33% damage reduction ...which you can restealth and revealed and agin again the 33% rreduction ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Why, oh why, I wonder. Hm. Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly, that is also at its best when used for in-combat stealth that, as we have established, is *really* bad. Hm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can combine it with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil (add -20% damage redction) ....and have a character with 41-42% total reduction =>> theif is no longer an assasin ...but a Bruser with mobility > > > > > > > Heck you can cast Rending Shade ...and steal a Prottection buff from that Guardina or Enginner , for an addiationla 33% damage reduction. > > > > > > > Then from a Bruser , you would transform into a Tank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet, noone did that. You wanna know why? Well, I already explained to you before why, but you just keep trying to ignore that and repeat the same nonsense, so how about this: Make that build. Try it out yourself. You might learn a thing or three. Among them why that build is bad, and why in-combat stealth is bad. Good luck. > > > > > > > > > > What kind of mentality is that ? > > > > > ''Why would someone not use a damage reduction trait on a +1 class that doesnt fight evenly'' > > > > > Have you thought for a sec , that you can change one trait Flickering Shadows , instead of of a 2k damage spell (Leeching Venoms) and combine them with Marauder's Resilience + Weakening Strikes from the Daredevil , to have a proper Bruser build and you DONT DIE easily ? > > > > > You see GW2 system is more flexible than other games ....and traits can transforman Assasin into a Bruser . > > > > > Must you wait of Caed (Sirinder is not good sorry) to showcase it to his video ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > What, do you think people didnt experiment with that? I told you to go play the build because I already explained to you why the build fails, but youre ignoring it. Go on. Do it. Learn what others have learned before you. > > > > > > > > > And why you use Shadow arts then ? For a 2k spell (Leeching Venoms) and 1 sec fear ? > > > > > Isnt this kinda moronic ? > > > > > There are better spells in Acros or any other Attacking traitline > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do you keep talking about a class you clearly dont know or understand at all? The answer is that there *arent* better traits in other traitlines. I mean, what are you going to use? Critical Strikes? Hardly, most of those traits stop being active like 1 second into the fight. They help bursting a little bit, but not nearly by enough, and it has no utility. Acrobatics? I know youre obsessed with that traitline, but its *bad*. It was always bad on D/P, but now its bad even on S/D. The only option would be DA over SA, but DA is also not really worth it. You barely get damage from it. > > > > > > > > > Just step back .... take a breath ...think over it .... > > > > > Its the ''myopia''effect we where talking .... i cannot think corectly when my main is Enginner > > > > > > > > > > > > > The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. So once again. Try playing thief. Learn what the class does, and doesnt do. Learn why the traits that are being picked are, and why the traits you are so obsessed with arent being picked at all. > > > > > > 1) You didnt explain it . You think is that thief is +1 assasin yolo 420 . > > > Which a simple button ..... boom you are Bruser ...with the same mobility ...the only thing you are loosing is 2k > > > > > > > Alright, let me explain it *one last time*. So, why not? Because you aren just "suddenly a bruiser". Think about it for just a tiny bit. You get 3 seconds of 33% reduced power damage. Alright, cool. Only problem is, youre still a berserker build, and it only reduces power damage, not condi damage. You still cant face-tank, since people overkill you by way more than 33%. Your survivability does not change in any meaningful way. On the other hand you lose a good chunk of damage, and you lose the utility of poison, plus potentially a bit of lifeleeching (usually not relevant). Its simply a bad trait. You wouldve realised that, had you tried playing with it. > > > > > 2) If Shadow Arts offer only 2k (Leaching) and 1 sec fear (which you wont restealth , so you wont get the benefit again...which is kinda moronic)....... why dont use a traitline that offer more Survibility ... or offensive ones like Executioner, or No Quarter +Practiced Tolerance for some extra damage . > > > Why you punish yourself ? Cant you think out of the box ? Youmst follow what ppl use on Metabattle site ? Have you capped out in the theorocrafting ? > > > > > > > There isnt a traitline that offers more survivability. And besides, it offers damage and utility, in the form of poison, boonrip, and fear. Plus a single condi-clear on your healing skill. Cant completely forget that. As for offense, let me get over the others. So, why not Executioner? Simple, it only applies when the enemy is already getting destroyed. The damage becomes redundant. Thats why people pick Improvisation over Executioners, even now. Why not No Quarter + Practised Tolerance? As I said, the problem is that the CS traits deactivate quickly. Take for example no quarter. Its only useful if youre under fury. The problem is, your ways of obtaining fury are incredibly limited. So what happens if your initial fury gets ripped or corrupted? Well, No Quarter does nothing for the next 10 seconds. Pretty useless. Practised Tolerance is the only one that does anything, and its problem is that it doesnt do enough. You get a very minor damage boost, but lose a lot of utility and reliability. > > > > So, why do people not use those? Because theyre worse. Its as simple as that. Its funny that you think that, as someone who has never played thief and doesnt know the *first* thing about playing thief, you know better than thief players. People have tried every single think you came up with before. They have tried it out, saw it was a lot worse, and discarded it. So, now I have explained it *again*. Before you reply again, make sure you at least do some research, or better yet, play thief yourself. As I said, your lack of knowledge makes discussion impossible. But then again, you also think Sindrener, the best thief in the world, "isnt good", but a guy who hasnt played GW2 in *years* is. > > > > > 3)The onle one who needs to take a step back, take a breath and think over it is you. Because you keep talking a lot of nonsense about a class you havent got the slightest clue about. And that makes any discussion impossible, because you just repeat nonsense about a class you dont know, over and over. > > > > > > > Repeating the truth when its no longer true still doesnt work yknow? > > > > 1) You really lack immagination > You get 33% damage reduction for 4 sec (as the reveale last in pvp) and if you try restealth+ attack ...or restealth+interupted ...you still get the effect . > Its ok if you dont know some thief mechanics ...just ask...i dont even know some Enginners ones . > Combining with Weakening Strikes + Marauder's Resilience => you will be boosted in 45% damage reduction . > If you have problems with Conditions you can drop Marauder's Resilience (-10% damage reduction) and get Escapist's Fortitude (condition removal on evades) + Shadow's Embrace fromthe Shadow Arts you love > I see. Youre just going to repeat the same nonsense over and over, huh? Let me let you in on a little secret: I tried that build. Several thieves have. We all came to the same conclusion. Its *garbage*. Seriously, its just unplayable. But you wouldnt know that. You dont know thief at all, and have never even played it. Thats why you also think you can just restealth and make the trait work that way, instead of just eating free damage. But yes, I have already explained it. You just deny it because you dont want to accept youre wrong. > 2) About not haviing Fury for No Quarter + Practised Tolerance , you can use Rune of Rage (PvP) that is constadly reaply in combat > Fury incease your total damage too , and is a MUST have boon to be had . Having 60% crit from Amulets+ 20% from the Fury = its 80% crit > Something in the past in the Mesmer thread , you whined that Thief have an average 16.000 burst , because not all attacks will crit > It reapplies once every 10 seconds, same as Unrelenting Strikes. They will both trigger at the same time. Youre still sitting there for 10 seconds without a trait. So yeah, thats not an option. Again, you would know that, if you knew *anything* about thief, but as we have established, you dont. Thief also doesnt have an average 16000 burst, Mesmer does. Thief had an average of 8k, less now. > Deadly Arts with Mug (2000 damage) > + Lotus Poison>perma Weakness on the enemy (doing the Dagger auto attack sequence) > + + Revealed Training (200 attack power) > + Exposed Weakness (if your necro team8 , have contitioned a target > + Executioner (in a teamfight if the enemy is 50% ...which most cases there are ...you get +20% to increase damage (such as Backstab) > ..........Its a lot better than Shadow Art 2k + 1 fear (because you wont restealth > "Perma-weakness". I see you dont know what that word means. Its 3 seconds of weakness every 10 seconds. Its 30% uptime, at best. Mug does not do 2000 damage, it got nerfed. Revealed Training isnt good enough, you run Even the Odds. Exposed Weakness is alright, but youre not gonna be +1ing a necro. Executioner, as I have just explained, is bad. And no, its a lot worse. Thats why thieves run Shadow Arts over Deadly Arts. But again, this too is something you would know if you knew anything about thief. In summary: You know ***nothing*** about thief, but try to talk as if you know better than everyone. 95% of everything you say about thief is wrong, and the remaining 5% are so obvious they might as well not be stated. In other words, all your statements on thief can and should immediately be discarded. Until you learn anything about thief, literally *anything*, just dont comment and save yourself the embarassment of looking like a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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