Sobx.1758 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said: > > > > > > > I feel a lot of the suggestions here are very shallow in thought. Most would require a complete rework to Stealth or at least a massive overhaul to Thief as a class. Realistically speaking, I think Stealth is here to stay despite how poorly it was designed. There are ways to deal with the vast majority of sources that apply it and measures have been taken to further add counters as the game has progressed. I do think it is objectively bad design, but I also think ANet has done a decent job at making it more manageable even with Deadeye existing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In-combat stealth is fine design, just underpowered. Out of combat stealth, aka the "lol you got bursted down by someone you didnt even know was there" is however badly designed. Thing is, thats not *that* hard to fix, and it wouldnt require any kind of overhaul to thief (just give thief damage back in that case). > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't personally have any strong feelings about it because most times I don't have much trouble with it. Still, there are times it is very obviously the reason someone wins or at least escapes regardless of how well I play to punish the player. Those times suck, but it's not something I'm so bothered by that I feel like going on a rant about like many on the forums do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only time stealth is the reason someone wins, is if they oneshot you out of stealth. Its never the reason someone escapes. If you punish stealth correctly, its useless. Thats why people avoid it. In-combat stealth is bad because its easily punished, and punished *hard*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Here's a shallow thought of my own; > > > > > > > Successive attacks after Revealing one's self will increase the duration of Revealed. Backstab -> 3 second Reveal, follow up attacks while Reveal is active will increase the duration by 1 second. Allowing it to wear off will remove this penalty.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does nothing to stop out of combat stealth (which is the problem) but makes in-combat stealth *even worse*. Its ab ad idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that could seriously damage game play for certain builds and incentivize 1 shot builds, but I also think it would force players to manage their Stealth options more intelligently. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah, it just means you only use stealth to get surprise oneshots, and otherwise you *never* use stealth, as opposed to now where you *almost* never use stealth. > > > > > > > > > > So if out of combat Stealth is reworked in some way, let's say that it can't be stacked, then would that not make Stealth entirely useless both in and out of combat by your definition? > > > > > > > > > > > > > At first, yes. Thats why I would then give in-combat stealth some buffs. Something to make it less trivially easy to punish, and more rewarding when you do go for it. > > > > > > > > > My point is that it is what it is, and for the most part it can be dealt with. People can make all the suggestions they want but ultimately one thing or another will break unless the mechanic gets a complete overhaul. I like my own idea but as you've pointed out, it wouldn't work as well as I'd like it to - and that's okay because it proves my point. I just wanted to add my two cents because this topic comes up a lot and I usually ignore it. > > > > > > > > I mean, out of combat stealth itself cant really be dealt with. Its only fine so long as the class cant burst, but that in itself is a problem. > > > > > > So if thiefs can burst ppl in WvW with 9-13k backstab . > > > Why should we buff stealth then ? > > > > > > Look at the Teapot video , even the Devs admits at 01:46:19 admits that its too strong and the teapot the host later at 01:48:00 asks about stealt in general even it has a short duration is pretey oppresive. And they cant change it now , becucase it was made since lauched > > > Why we shouldlisten to you, which doesnt like to rstealth in combat , telling us its underpowered , when the Devs + Sreamers aknowlgeghhe its prety opresive ? > > > > Man ur clueless. First of higher numbers are achievable by all classes in wvw compared to conquest. A full malice booned up DE can still pull off highish numbers in wvw but that is not the president balance should be following, if it's to high tone it down in a way that effects that individual skills on that individual specs ability to under those circumstances burst that high, all while toning down some of the meme 15k busts slot of the tankier classes are capable of when built pure power, may as well do it at once right. Right now on a power DS p/d build my back stabs due 6k bursts on average in wvw and 2.5-4k bursts in pvp and yeah that's without assassin signet as it's no longer worth taking. My autos do anywhere from 250,300 and 500. My HS does 1.5k unless enemie is low health like 25% or less I'll do 2.5k-3.5k ish. Black powder and HS dps aren't even worth consideration. How is that balanced for a squishy burst spec? When I'm in wvw on a power dp build any class on most builds shrug my backstabs and follow ups like I'm a mosquito and can 2 or 3 shot me. That's ok tho cuz one spec DE when stars aligned can do a good burst? Nerf that and buff others to a reasonable state. > > When a player far better than us who constantly plays at top lv states he cant even +1 most classes these days cuz a mix of sustain being to high and thiefs burst being to low I'd take that over u who obviously knows truly very little about the class and has some affinity to arguing just to argue. > > [vid] > you loose Also go play that build and post a constant stream of gameplay instead of someone's compilation that's worth nothing when trying to illustrate the actual capabilities of a profession. 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lare.5129 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I have answer how to fix it - make one button and after press it get 100% stealth uptime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > Rift the same > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. The midgame exists, you know? > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 Evidently you havent played ESO. > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > > > > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > > > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > > > > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > > > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > > > > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > > > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > > > > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > > > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > > > > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > > > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > > > > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. 1) Look on the forums , THief was able to catch it . And even now it has been nerfed . While in other games the rider travel by 200% and the Rogue by -50% 2) In matter of my friends introduced and played 250 matched and then we move to Battleright 3)Which they break on dots and getting damaged 4) You havent played . When you try to stealth (you can block the spell to block an attack) and after of 1,5 sec you go in full stealth . And even there aoes+ doets destealth you 5)No , camouflage need some sec to fully activate . You dont dissapera from the word 6) If they wanted to expirement , then they would also tried the DOta version ad not an inferio where you can see the enemy . So they avoided the Dota stealth , like GW2 hould do the same :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > > > > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > > > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > > > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > > > > > > > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > > > > > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > > > > > > > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > > > > > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > > > > > > > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > > > > > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > > > > > > > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > > > > > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > > > > > > > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > > > > > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > > > > > > > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. > > 1) Look on the forums , THief was able to catch it . And even now it has been nerfed . While in other games the rider travel by 200% and the Rogue by -50% Thief wasnt. Next. > 2) In matter of my friends introduced and played 250 matched and then we move to Battleright And yet you know nothing about it. Then again, you also know nothing about GW2 and you seem to play that, so maybe youre just allergic to knowing. > 3)Which they break on dots and getting damaged None of them do, actually. Hell, BDOs invisibility *straight up prevents any damage* > 4) You havent played . When you try to stealth (you can block the spell to block an attack) and after of 1,5 sec you go in full stealth . And even there aoes+ doets destealth you Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next. > 5)No , camouflage need some sec to fully activate . You dont dissapera from the word Yes, but thats because Camouflage is *out of combat* stealth. Invisibility needs no time to activate. And thats what GW2s in-combat stealth is like. Except its better than even GW2s stealth, because melee cleave doesnt exist. > 6) If they wanted to expirement , then they would also tried the DOta version ad not an inferio where you can see the enemy . > So they avoided the Dota stealth , like GW2 hould do the same :P > No, thats not what experimenting means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? Make it like Blinding powdwer cost 1 initiate , and heartseeker nono , but stealth breaks on damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > > > > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > > > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > > > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > > > > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > > > > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > > > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > > > > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > > > > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > > > > > > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > > > > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > > > > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > > > > > > > > > > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > > > > > > > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > > > > > > > > > > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > > > > > > > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > > > > > > > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > > > > > > > > > > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > > > > > > > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > > > > > > > > > > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > > > > > > > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > > > > > > > > > > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. > > > > 1) Look on the forums , THief was able to catch it . And even now it has been nerfed . While in other games the rider travel by 200% and the Rogue by -50% > > Thief wasnt. Next. > > > 2) In matter of my friends introduced and played 250 matched and then we move to Battleright > > And yet you know nothing about it. Then again, you also know nothing about GW2 and you seem to play that, so maybe youre just allergic to knowing. > > > 3)Which they break on dots and getting damaged > > None of them do, actually. Hell, BDOs invisibility *straight up prevents any damage* > > > 4) You havent played . When you try to stealth (you can block the spell to block an attack) and after of 1,5 sec you go in full stealth . And even there aoes+ doets destealth you > > Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next. > > > 5)No , camouflage need some sec to fully activate . You dont dissapera from the word > > Yes, but thats because Camouflage is *out of combat* stealth. Invisibility needs no time to activate. And thats what GW2s in-combat stealth is like. Except its better than even GW2s stealth, because melee cleave doesnt exist. > > > 6) If they wanted to expirement , then they would also tried the DOta version ad not an inferio where you can see the enemy . > > So they avoided the Dota stealth , like GW2 hould do the same :P > > > > No, thats not what experimenting means. 1) Yes he was 2) You too dont know about GW2 , thats why you go from threads to thread and conceales the truth 3)Show me a video that BDO does that 4) Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next 5) Yeah camouflag need time to activate and i can see the person with Wards for the first 1,5-2 and i will stun him . Give me the same ability here where if i dont stun you for 1,5 and let you fully stealth , its my problem 6) Why they should bring an inferior model rather than the GW2/Dota model then ? Lets exprement here in the GW2 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along with any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... I believe it was sarcastic commentary on how this thread has devolved and not a serious suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? > > > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... > > I believe it was sarcastic commentary on how this thread has devolved and not a serious suggestion. I skipped the last few posts, because that just started to look like a pointless back-and-forth about other games, on top of the @"Killthehealersffs.8940" actually lying about his video dev source, so why even bother. I'm not sure it was sarcastic, seriously so many straight up unusable "ideas" are posted on this forum so often that I don't think there's a way to tell for sure anymore (and judging by the response to that post above by another user, it seems I'm not the only one thinking that might be a serious suggestion :p ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? > > > > > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... > > > > I believe it was sarcastic commentary on how this thread has devolved and not a serious suggestion. > > I skipped the last few posts, because that just started to look like a pointless back-and-forth about other games, on top of the @"Killthehealersffs.8940" actually lying about his video dev source, so why even bother. > > I'm not sure it was sarcastic, seriously so many straight up unusable "ideas" are posted on this forum so often that I don't think there's a way to tell for sure anymore (and judging by the response to that post above by another user, it seems I'm not the only one thinking that might be a serious suggestion :p ). Just means they took the bait as well then doesn't it... There has been some useful discussion in this thread though, until just recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? > > > > > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... > > > > I believe it was sarcastic commentary on how this thread has devolved and not a serious suggestion. > > I skipped the last few posts, because that just started to look like a pointless back-and-forth about other games, on top of the @"Killthehealersffs.8940" actually lying about his video dev source, so why even bother. > > I'm not sure it was sarcastic, seriously so many straight up unusable "ideas" are posted on this forum so often that I don't think there's a way to tell for sure anymore (and judging by the response to that post above by another user, it seems I'm not the only one thinking that might be a serious suggestion :p ). I apologize, ur right. I won't derail thread any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along with any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... I wasn't serious for one. 2nd of all how is all thief builds being able to continually stealth for 3 secs at a press of a button on no CD ruining their builds, I might be missing something obvious here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? > > > > > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... > > > > I believe it was sarcastic commentary on how this thread has devolved and not a serious suggestion. > > I skipped the last few posts, because that just started to look like a pointless back-and-forth about other games, on top of the @"Killthehealersffs.8940" actually lying about his video dev source, so why even bother. > > I'm not sure it was sarcastic, seriously so many straight up unusable "ideas" are posted on this forum so often that I don't think there's a way to tell for sure anymore (and judging by the response to that post above by another user, it seems I'm not the only one thinking that might be a serious suggestion :p ). Sorry 01;34:13 Now let me..have my fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > > > > > > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > > > > > > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > > > > > > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > > > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > > > > > > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > > > > > > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > > > > > > > > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > > > > > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > > > > > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > > > > > > > > > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > > > > > > > > > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > > > > > > > > > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > > > > > > > > > > > > > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > > > > > > > > > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > > > > > > > > > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. > > > > > > 1) Look on the forums , THief was able to catch it . And even now it has been nerfed . While in other games the rider travel by 200% and the Rogue by -50% > > > > Thief wasnt. Next. > > > > > 2) In matter of my friends introduced and played 250 matched and then we move to Battleright > > > > And yet you know nothing about it. Then again, you also know nothing about GW2 and you seem to play that, so maybe youre just allergic to knowing. > > > > > 3)Which they break on dots and getting damaged > > > > None of them do, actually. Hell, BDOs invisibility *straight up prevents any damage* > > > > > 4) You havent played . When you try to stealth (you can block the spell to block an attack) and after of 1,5 sec you go in full stealth . And even there aoes+ doets destealth you > > > > Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next. > > > > > 5)No , camouflage need some sec to fully activate . You dont dissapera from the word > > > > Yes, but thats because Camouflage is *out of combat* stealth. Invisibility needs no time to activate. And thats what GW2s in-combat stealth is like. Except its better than even GW2s stealth, because melee cleave doesnt exist. > > > > > 6) If they wanted to expirement , then they would also tried the DOta version ad not an inferio where you can see the enemy . > > > So they avoided the Dota stealth , like GW2 hould do the same :P > > > > > > > No, thats not what experimenting means. > > 1) Yes he was Repeating a lie doesnt make it true. > 2) You too dont know about GW2 , thats why you go from threads to thread and conceales the truth I do. The only one concealing the truth is *you. You keep talking about classes you dont even know. Embarassingly, that includes Ranger. > 3)Show me a video that BDO does that https://www.invenglobal.com/blackdesertonline/skill/detail/1701 No need. > 4) Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next Parroting like a child. > 5) Yeah camouflag need time to activate and i can see the person with Wards for the first 1,5-2 and i will stun him . > Give me the same ability here where if i dont stun you for 1,5 and let you fully stealth , its my problem You keep missing the point. That is out of combat stealth. Lets compare in-combat stealth then. Like Kha'Zix. No cast time, no delay, no way to reveal through wards or proximity. Same as GW2, only better. Good, we know more now. Nice talk. > 6) Why they should bring an inferior model rather than the GW2/Dota model then ? Lets exprement here in the GW2 too Not all experiments are successful. That one was arguably a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > > > > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > > > > > > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > > > > > > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > > > > > > > > > > > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > > > > > > > > > > > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. > > > > > > > > 1) Look on the forums , THief was able to catch it . And even now it has been nerfed . While in other games the rider travel by 200% and the Rogue by -50% > > > > > > Thief wasnt. Next. > > > > > > > 2) In matter of my friends introduced and played 250 matched and then we move to Battleright > > > > > > And yet you know nothing about it. Then again, you also know nothing about GW2 and you seem to play that, so maybe youre just allergic to knowing. > > > > > > > 3)Which they break on dots and getting damaged > > > > > > None of them do, actually. Hell, BDOs invisibility *straight up prevents any damage* > > > > > > > 4) You havent played . When you try to stealth (you can block the spell to block an attack) and after of 1,5 sec you go in full stealth . And even there aoes+ doets destealth you > > > > > > Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next. > > > > > > > 5)No , camouflage need some sec to fully activate . You dont dissapera from the word > > > > > > Yes, but thats because Camouflage is *out of combat* stealth. Invisibility needs no time to activate. And thats what GW2s in-combat stealth is like. Except its better than even GW2s stealth, because melee cleave doesnt exist. > > > > > > > 6) If they wanted to expirement , then they would also tried the DOta version ad not an inferio where you can see the enemy . > > > > So they avoided the Dota stealth , like GW2 hould do the same :P > > > > > > > > > > No, thats not what experimenting means. > > > > 1) Yes he was > > Repeating a lie doesnt make it true. > > > 2) You too dont know about GW2 , thats why you go from threads to thread and conceales the truth > > I do. The only one concealing the truth is *you. You keep talking about classes you dont even know. Embarassingly, that includes Ranger. > > > 3)Show me a video that BDO does that > > https://www.invenglobal.com/blackdesertonline/skill/detail/1701 No need. > > > 4) Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next > > Parroting like a child. > > > 5) Yeah camouflag need time to activate and i can see the person with Wards for the first 1,5-2 and i will stun him . > > Give me the same ability here where if i dont stun you for 1,5 and let you fully stealth , its my problem > > You keep missing the point. That is out of combat stealth. Lets compare in-combat stealth then. Like Kha'Zix. No cast time, no delay, no way to reveal through wards or proximity. Same as GW2, only better. Good, we know more now. Nice talk. > > > 6) Why they should bring an inferior model rather than the GW2/Dota model then ? Lets exprement here in the GW2 too > > Not all experiments are successful. That one was arguably a failure. 1) Yes thief could match the speedof the mount . And now that mount is nerfed you can easily catch the enemi . Other games You run at 200% on the mount and the rogue is slowed by 50% . Look up the forums 2)I do. The only one concealing the truth is *you. You keep talking about classes you dont even know. 3)So : ''Except for debuffs, any kind of attack cannot break the Concealment'' . So its break on dots :) 4)Parroting like a child. 5)Kha'Zix. camouflage need some time to ramp up. For the fiurst 2 sec you ave simple invisibility .Which wards can work 6) If its wasnt a success , then surely they would implant the Dota stealth . Which they did because it has limited counterplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > > > > > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > > > > > > > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > > > > > > > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. > > > > > > > > > > 1) Look on the forums , THief was able to catch it . And even now it has been nerfed . While in other games the rider travel by 200% and the Rogue by -50% > > > > > > > > Thief wasnt. Next. > > > > > > > > > 2) In matter of my friends introduced and played 250 matched and then we move to Battleright > > > > > > > > And yet you know nothing about it. Then again, you also know nothing about GW2 and you seem to play that, so maybe youre just allergic to knowing. > > > > > > > > > 3)Which they break on dots and getting damaged > > > > > > > > None of them do, actually. Hell, BDOs invisibility *straight up prevents any damage* > > > > > > > > > 4) You havent played . When you try to stealth (you can block the spell to block an attack) and after of 1,5 sec you go in full stealth . And even there aoes+ doets destealth you > > > > > > > > Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next. > > > > > > > > > 5)No , camouflage need some sec to fully activate . You dont dissapera from the word > > > > > > > > Yes, but thats because Camouflage is *out of combat* stealth. Invisibility needs no time to activate. And thats what GW2s in-combat stealth is like. Except its better than even GW2s stealth, because melee cleave doesnt exist. > > > > > > > > > 6) If they wanted to expirement , then they would also tried the DOta version ad not an inferio where you can see the enemy . > > > > > So they avoided the Dota stealth , like GW2 hould do the same :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats not what experimenting means. > > > > > > 1) Yes he was > > > > Repeating a lie doesnt make it true. > > > > > 2) You too dont know about GW2 , thats why you go from threads to thread and conceales the truth > > > > I do. The only one concealing the truth is *you. You keep talking about classes you dont even know. Embarassingly, that includes Ranger. > > > > > 3)Show me a video that BDO does that > > > > https://www.invenglobal.com/blackdesertonline/skill/detail/1701 No need. > > > > > 4) Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next > > > > Parroting like a child. > > > > > 5) Yeah camouflag need time to activate and i can see the person with Wards for the first 1,5-2 and i will stun him . > > > Give me the same ability here where if i dont stun you for 1,5 and let you fully stealth , its my problem > > > > You keep missing the point. That is out of combat stealth. Lets compare in-combat stealth then. Like Kha'Zix. No cast time, no delay, no way to reveal through wards or proximity. Same as GW2, only better. Good, we know more now. Nice talk. > > > > > 6) Why they should bring an inferior model rather than the GW2/Dota model then ? Lets exprement here in the GW2 too > > > > Not all experiments are successful. That one was arguably a failure. > > 1) Yes thief could match the speedof the mount . And now that mount is nerfed you can easily catch the enemi . Other games You run at 200% on the mount and the rogue is slowed by 50% . Look up the forums Repeating the same wrong thing over and over doesnt make it less wrong. It just makes you more of a fool. > 2)I do. The only one concealing the truth is *you. You keep talking about classes you dont even know. If your only response is to parrot like a child, you just concede that you are wrong. > 3)So : ''Except for debuffs, any kind of attack cannot break the Concealment'' . So its break on dots :) Uh, no, it breaks on special anti-conceal debuffs. Think like revealed, except inaccessible by players. > 5)Kha'Zix. camouflage need some time to ramp up. For the fiurst 2 sec you ave simple invisibility .Which wards can work He doesnt use camouflage. He uses invisibility. Its unaffected by pink wards. > 6) If its wasnt a success , then surely they would implant the Dota stealth . Which they did because it has limited counterplay Would they? You clearly dont know blizzard well. Gotta add that onto the pile. In Summary: Nothing has changed. You are still wrong about every single thing you say. So, time to treat you like burnfall, another thief-hating troll, and ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 You ...... BDO Aoe/CC/Damage(minus fall damage.) Will knock you out of stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cuks.8241" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No stealth games are not in question. There is no stealth balance there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And really what we talk about here is invisibility, stealth is usually a term for states where the enemy is less visible, can't be targeted or silent. I don't know where all these no restriction stealth games are because I don't know any. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no multiplayer stealth games. And yes, thats what stealth means. Its invisibility. Its synonymous. Anyway, just about every MOBA, multiple shooters, several MMOs, even one or two fighting games *all* have that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I am not even saying it is unbalanced, it's just bad and annoying design. And I see posts how there are many games like this one regarding stealth but I never encountered one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then youve just not played many multiplayer games. I cant think of many that *dont* have it, and theyre all shooters. That might eventually get it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Name the games > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In wow breaks from every aoes and shots or having dots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rift the same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ender Scroll same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heroes of the storm , the newest game by Blizzard , if you are in mdium range you can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even further. In wow it is only out of combat and has reduced movement speed. You have combat clears but on very long CDs - Vanish (5 minutes I tihnk reduced to 3 when I last played). You can see stealthed player in close range and it is available on melee chars exclusively (rogue, druid in cat form). There's mage invisibility but it has a few sec channel animation (3 sec?) during which anything cancels it and very long CD (again I think it was 5 reduced to 3 by my data is old). Maybe I missed some cases since it's been many years since I played. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its also nearly permanent with no investment and on classes that oneshot you (or try to). Its not a good example. Thats why WoW is extremely atypical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Heroes they changed it that a player in stealth is seen by all quite clearly (before it was hard to see) only can't be targeted or seen on mini map. It becomes invisible only if stationary (only for ambushes). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This too has exceptions. Valeera has a form of stealth that is completely unrevealable by *anything*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In dota invisibility means not seen on minimap and cant be targeted, seen on the screen - silhouette. Similar to heroes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, no. Theyre completely invisible. You cant see them at all. Its more like GW2 than Heroes. Some of them have "fade time", but a lot of them dont even have that, and even the ones that do have extremely short ones most of the time, like Weavers 0.25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some other cases I am familiar but are from fps and usually very short duration, very hard (long CD power ups) to get and still seen just harder. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I cant think of any FPS where stealth cant be completely invisible. In TF2, its fully stealthed. In Planetside 2, its fully stealthed while crouchwalking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no one has given and example of a game where stealth or better invisibility is so easy to get into and maintain as here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dota 2, League, TF2, Planetside 2, supposedly Dirty Bomb (but I cant confirm that, so take it with a grain of salt), Gigantic (RIP), Paladins, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Its permanant, but themajority areusing heir mount +100%(200% if you calcalate the basic movement) movement speed , While the Rogue runs at -50% .Not like here the the thif and the victim run at the same time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the thief is in stealth, theyre not mounted up. Theyre moving slower. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) And it does low amount of damage in the early lvl . While the lategame its zerg zerg push > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not a clue what game youre referring to, but Im going to guess that its wrong. Its a safe bet with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)If you near the target and hover-stay near for 2 sec , he can see him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you stay near the target as a thief for 2 seconds, your stealth usually runs out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)And break when you get hit , like eso > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt matter, you only use it to engage, and oneshot people. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)League have wards , which cost 85 gold and persist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 75 gold. And they dont affect invisibility, only camouflage. Aka, they only affect *out* of combat stealth, not *in* combat stealth. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About Dota its was the first game and because its preaty old they cannotlonmger change mechanics , that why in the new Heros of Storm they changed the stelth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except they can change mechanics. They do it all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Mount speed got nerfed. You and Psyco whined about it :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didnt? Its also still a lot faster than regular movement speed. So uh, yeah, still wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) HoTs is a game where you gain lvl . You cannot one shot from stealth the enemy from the game . At the endgame is meele brawl in the midle . You are protected by your team8s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The midgame exists, you know? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And still its not MMO , whereyou said ppl have stopped usin WoW model > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer PvP in general, but yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) its 4 with Meld with Shadows , learn your class > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meld with Shadows only affects skills and traits. No skill or trait that gives 3 seconds of stealth is being used. Wrong, as were used to by now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) I wont allow ppl in Eso to restealth . Unlikly GW2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Evidently you havent played ESO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)Whats League has : ''affect out of combat stealth, not in combat stealth'' ? > > > > > > > > > > Any character cn use stealth before the attack and inside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They split stealth into 2 categories. Camouflage, which is long duration out of combat stealth. Its revealed when too close, and by pink wards. And Invisibility, which is short duration in-combat stealth, and not revealed by anything other than true sight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Which they did on the newer game , like thatn using the old Dota :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... you do know that Dota and HotS are made by completely different studios right? What am I saying, of course you dont. You seem to pride yourself on knowing nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Whose faster ? athief on foot or the curent version of the mount . > > > > > > > > When mount was lanched the only proffestion that could catch up was thief with heartseekr + 450 range dodge . > > > > > > > > Now it has tremedously reduced , its 5% more than swiftness in outof combat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The current version of the mount? Still? And no, thief couldnt catch up with it, not even with shortbow 5. Only Warrior could, and only barely. But then again you think thieves use *Heartseeker* for movement. Every time I think you cant get any more wrong, you continue to surprise me. Its also 16% more than swiftness out of combat. Again, wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2)The mid game its zerg zerg for the captued objectives that alster the map > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you have not played HotS before. Got it, moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3)You said MMO , say to me an ammo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said multiplayer games. But, BDO, Albion, Archeage, etc. etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4)I have played and eeen videos ,you dont dissapera imidiatly + ifyou get hit before and after the semi-invisbility state > you get destealth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You clearly havent. Else youd know why they can just restealth without worries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5)CClasses that have camouflage don get immidiatly gain it . It transform from 2-3 sec invisiblity to camouflage , where you can see them with ward and stun/fear them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You also havent played League. Got it. No, thats not how it works. Camouflage is always camoufalge. Invisibility is always invisibility. The 2 forms are completely seperate and stay seperate. I mean seriously, isnt it getting embarassing, saying so many wrong things but not having said a *single* correct thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6)If its ws succeful such as dota , why wouldnt they keepit ? Strange to you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because maybe they wanted to experiment with the game and its concepts? Besides, Dota is a lot more successful than HotS still, so its not even a good argument that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Look on the forums , THief was able to catch it . And even now it has been nerfed . While in other games the rider travel by 200% and the Rogue by -50% > > > > > > > > > > Thief wasnt. Next. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) In matter of my friends introduced and played 250 matched and then we move to Battleright > > > > > > > > > > And yet you know nothing about it. Then again, you also know nothing about GW2 and you seem to play that, so maybe youre just allergic to knowing. > > > > > > > > > > > 3)Which they break on dots and getting damaged > > > > > > > > > > None of them do, actually. Hell, BDOs invisibility *straight up prevents any damage* > > > > > > > > > > > 4) You havent played . When you try to stealth (you can block the spell to block an attack) and after of 1,5 sec you go in full stealth . And even there aoes+ doets destealth you > > > > > > > > > > Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next. > > > > > > > > > > > 5)No , camouflage need some sec to fully activate . You dont dissapera from the word > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but thats because Camouflage is *out of combat* stealth. Invisibility needs no time to activate. And thats what GW2s in-combat stealth is like. Except its better than even GW2s stealth, because melee cleave doesnt exist. > > > > > > > > > > > 6) If they wanted to expirement , then they would also tried the DOta version ad not an inferio where you can see the enemy . > > > > > > So they avoided the Dota stealth , like GW2 hould do the same :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, thats not what experimenting means. > > > > > > > > 1) Yes he was > > > > > > Repeating a lie doesnt make it true. > > > > > > > 2) You too dont know about GW2 , thats why you go from threads to thread and conceales the truth > > > > > > I do. The only one concealing the truth is *you. You keep talking about classes you dont even know. Embarassingly, that includes Ranger. > > > > > > > 3)Show me a video that BDO does that > > > > > > https://www.invenglobal.com/blackdesertonline/skill/detail/1701 No need. > > > > > > > 4) Someone else already pointed out that youre wrong, so my job here is done. Next > > > > > > Parroting like a child. > > > > > > > 5) Yeah camouflag need time to activate and i can see the person with Wards for the first 1,5-2 and i will stun him . > > > > Give me the same ability here where if i dont stun you for 1,5 and let you fully stealth , its my problem > > > > > > You keep missing the point. That is out of combat stealth. Lets compare in-combat stealth then. Like Kha'Zix. No cast time, no delay, no way to reveal through wards or proximity. Same as GW2, only better. Good, we know more now. Nice talk. > > > > > > > 6) Why they should bring an inferior model rather than the GW2/Dota model then ? Lets exprement here in the GW2 too > > > > > > Not all experiments are successful. That one was arguably a failure. > > > > 1) Yes thief could match the speedof the mount . And now that mount is nerfed you can easily catch the enemi . Other games You run at 200% on the mount and the rogue is slowed by 50% . Look up the forums > > Repeating the same wrong thing over and over doesnt make it less wrong. It just makes you more of a fool. > > > 2)I do. The only one concealing the truth is *you. You keep talking about classes you dont even know. > > If your only response is to parrot like a child, you just concede that you are wrong. > > > 3)So : ''Except for debuffs, any kind of attack cannot break the Concealment'' . So its break on dots :) > > Uh, no, it breaks on special anti-conceal debuffs. Think like revealed, except inaccessible by players. > > > 5)Kha'Zix. camouflage need some time to ramp up. For the fiurst 2 sec you ave simple invisibility .Which wards can work > > He doesnt use camouflage. He uses invisibility. Its unaffected by pink wards. > > > 6) If its wasnt a success , then surely they would implant the Dota stealth . Which they did because it has limited counterplay > > Would they? You clearly dont know blizzard well. Gotta add that onto the pile. > > In Summary: Nothing has changed. You are still wrong about every single thing you say. So, time to treat you like burnfall, another thief-hating troll, and ignore you. You liar ... even BDO stealth have backfire... Aoe/CC/Damage(minus fall damage.) Will knock you out of stealth Which MMO has the GW2 stealth ? Lets have 10 days , conversation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief? > > > > > > > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm... > > > > > > I believe it was sarcastic commentary on how this thread has devolved and not a serious suggestion. > > > > I skipped the last few posts, because that just started to look like a pointless back-and-forth about other games, on top of the @"Killthehealersffs.8940" actually lying about his video dev source, so why even bother. > > > > I'm not sure it was sarcastic, seriously so many straight up unusable "ideas" are posted on this forum so often that I don't think there's a way to tell for sure anymore (and judging by the response to that post above by another user, it seems I'm not the only one thinking that might be a serious suggestion :p ). > > Sorry > > 01;34:13 > > Now let me..have my fun... Thanks. But now we can see that you intentionally just wrote the first thing he said ("pretty strong"), while leaving out the rest of his comment that says "**stealth is always gonna be a balance between, like, how long can you stealth. I think the biggest issue [...] is I can stealth around the point and then you have to be concerned about backstab, but I'm already halfway across the map**". So prety much what I (and @"UNOwen.7132" ) have been saying for a while -the mechanic itself isn't problematic, the duration is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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