Unwritten Patch Note Changes

[folk.8190]

arena will respond to our questions?

can you show some respect to your players /customers? I think the community is worthy of clarification about the situation, because it is no longer a joke. this is a real problem

[Meetshield.1756]

Oh look a new build they gonna Fix MORE stuff I bet...

[vicious.5683]

Necromancer:

Manifest Sand Shade (WvW and PvP only): The spawn duration of sand shades has been reduced from 20 seconds to 10 seconds.

Nefarious Favor (WvW and PvP only): The recharge time of this ability has been increased from 5 seconds to 8 seconds.

 

The (no longer) ninja nerfs.

[Phoebe Ascension.8437]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Zefiris.8297 said:

> > No, actually it just shows that the spec is not performing well, and is doing subpar damage. You can be as good as you want, if the class is not capable of outputting suitable damage, then it is simply not a good class for damage.

> >

> > Right now, I can do more damage on my cPS warrior with a much simpler playstyle. Who does better support at the same time.

>

> It shows that it was OVER performing. It was a bug, it was a mess for PvP and WvW and made them insanely over powered. It shows just how broken that bug was. Now this BUG has been fixed, they can look at adjusting skills and such. Crying out that its been nerfed into the ground for a BUG getting fixed is over the top. It was ALWAYS going to be nerfed. It was insanely broken. Instant cast. Insane condi application.

>

> You think Scourge is bad!? Check Soulbeast out. It has whole trait lines that are riddled with bugs and issues, it has skills, utilities and Elites that have limited to NO use with the new added mechanic Lol.

>

>

 

You clearly dont play more professions or game modes.

 

Here's coming (from a month mained necromancer, but soon probably not): In pvp Necro is op (albeit not much), in wvw, necro is super op (scourge), cause of insane condi strip, good survivability, and heavy condi burst (and easy to land).

 

In pve it's in PERFECT spot, perhaps 1-3k to much dps, but nothing more or less (3k is like 8% dps, nothing). Now they nerved it (seems so) for at least 7k dps, but probably 9-10k dps, even putting it below more 'sem dps, semi support' classes.... either cps has been overpowered for ages (while necro only 3 weeks), or necro is underpowered. choose your pick. In pve, scourge is a vast mess now. Most traits useless now (dont trigger), cooldowns to long, stacking to useless. There's no synergy, fun, strategy, or freedom left in scourge. It's all to waste in pve. And mind you, even Renegate now outdps's necro, soulbeast also, mirage also, cps also, firebrand also, the list continues, this is insane. Necro doesn't deserve this faith (in pve).

 

It had to be nerfed in pvp fine. I agree. But why in gods name no split. Like longer cooldowns on trait procs or something, easy to balance imo, just takes creativity. But no Anet was over the top lazy and made it below par.

[Zefiris.8297]

> @"Zefiris.8297" I do T4s every few days, at the moment with Scourge, Reaper and other classes.

 

In other words, you are doing very easy content that people often do with clown builds. Look at CMs, though. You'll see that, suddenly, it's Chrono/Druid/Warrior/Dps/Dps again. This is because Warrior is simply by far the best support.

 

OBVIOUSLY, if you bring lesser support classes that contribute far less (such as scourge), the individual contribution of the warrior is less. But if you did bring an actual DPS class instead, your group would be a much better one. That's why it's Chrono/Druid/Warrior/X/X for CMs.

[Justine.6351]

> @savacli.8172 said:

> > @Justine.6351 said:

> > Lets be real, still going to see >30% participation of the necromancer profession in wvw zerging.

>

> WvW should have been untouched for the most part unless for some reason you tried to "shade bomb" and stack all your shades in one spot for an F5 cast. Same thing with PvP.

>

> PvE is where it's hurting the most as their not as much field play since you mostly have stationary fights outside of open world mobs; even open world champs tend to stay put

 

Its the tripple corruption with F2, and the double condi convert, that will keep scourge in play. Even a 8sec x .8 = 6.4sec cd wont turn them off. From my whole 5 hours of scourge play it was all about that upfront F2 not the 20sec shade duration.

[savacli.8172]

Finally got a chance to sit down and look into this. Here's the not so TL;DR

 

**Prior to today's patch**

* Manifest Sand Shade (I'll be referring to the damaging portion not the shade summoning portion) was cast when Shroud 1 - Shroud 4 was cast in addition to the unique effects of their respective skills

* MSS stacked up to 4 times: 1 Necro + 3 Shades

* Unyielding Blast was applied at each strike which means you could stack up to 8 vulnerability in one cast of MSS.

* Reaper's Might and Dhuumfire were tied to the casting of MSS not the strikes. Thus, every time MSS was cast you only applied 1 stack of burning and gained 1 stack of might.

* Desert Shroud (Shroud 5) did not cast MSS with only the Necro present but would instead pulse Desert Shroud 7 times. The effect would apply 2 stacks of torment 7 times.

* Desert Shroud would not cause Shades to cast Desert Shroud. Instead, they would cast MSS 7 times over which would apply up to 3 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of cripple, 6 stacks of vulnerability (Unyielding Blast), 1 stack of Might (Reapers Might), and 1 stack of Burning (Dhuumfire) 7 times.

* Combining the Desert Shroud from Necro with the MSS pulses resulted in up to 35 stacks of torment, 21 stacks of cripple, 42 stacks of Vulnerability, 7 stacks of might, and 7 stacks of burning.

 

**Post Patch**

* MSS continues to be cast when Shroud 1 - Shroud 4 are cast in addition to their unique effects of their respective skills. However, Shroud 5 will now also cast MSS in addition to its effective. Though see the clarification below

* MSS will no longer stack. So having 1 Necro = 1 Necro + 3 shades for determining the effect of the cast should their radii overlap over a single target

* Because MSS no longer stacks, you can only get 2 stacks of vulnerability per MSS cast when traited for Unyielding Blast

* No change on Reaper's Might nor Dhuumfire as they were tied to the casting of MSS rather than the physical strike. Thus you still only get 1 stack of might and burning per cast of MSS

* Despite the patch notes, Desert Shroud **still** does not cast MSS when it's only the Necro. **This is, in my opinion, the only bugged portion of this skill**. The Desert Shroud effects are otherwise unchanged; you still get 2 stacks of torment per pulse.

* Desert Shroud will correctly cast MSS if at least one shade is on the playing field. Shades have been normalized to correctly pulse Desert Shroud instead of MSS. Thus, due to the new overlapping rules the only benefit to having a Shade of for Desert Shroud is the initial cast of MSS. Otherwise you gain no additional effect as Desert Shroud from the Necro and Shades are subject to the overlap rule and do not stack. Thus, at most you now only get 15 stacks of torment, 1 stack of cripple, 2 stacks of vulnerability, 1 stack of might, and 1 stack of burning total from a single casting of Shroud 5. **The change in Shades from casting MSS to casting Desert Shroud is a new functionality not noted in the patch notes**

 

**Other Notes**

* Path of Corruption will corrupt 2 boons as you would expect when casting Shroud 2 around you and your shades. Doesn't stack, so you only corrupt up to 2 boons total.

* Transfusion will only only teleport downed allies to the Necro when casting Shroud 4. The Necro also gains a healing AoE that pulses over 9 seconds granting health to allies or 2% revive per pulse to down ally. Shades receive gain no benefit.

* Rending Shroud will pulse 3 stacks of vulnerability around you and your shades every 3 seconds while you are in Desert Shroud (Shroud 5). Doesn't stack. Thus, you cap at 6 stacks of vulnerability since the shroud only lasts 6 seconds. . (Note: I sometimes only got 3 stacks for some reason. Global timer?)

* Furious Demise will grant you 5 seconds of Fury when you cast Shroud 5. Since this trait is tied to the casting of the skill you only get Fury once.

 

Edit: So yeah, the skills were buggy and today's patch had the intent of correcting the skill's behavior which resulted in a nerf. Granted, I saw in another thread were an Anet guy said we would be getting some damage back in the upcoming balance patch but no where near where it used to be. So maybe 35k?

 

Either way, like before, the frustration is mostly driven in the skills weren't very well defined so what players perceived as normal was a bug to begin with, and now there's a bunch of upset players because this was fixed before it was really ever cleared up.

[Zefiris.8297]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Exqq.7451 said:

>

> > "BUG" fixes that cause such massive swings in performance should not be released until balance fixes are implemented at the same time to add some kind of stability instead of this constant swing of GOOD kitten GOOD kitten... While Soulbeast may have bugs, this discussion is around Scourge.

>

> No. You fix bugs FIRST. Then you do the balance. It was an unintended bug. Therefore it needed to be fixed before they could do any sort of balance changes. I know Anet arent exactly the best at balancing their games (they are dreadful!) but even they knew you dont balance a class knowing it has bugs that are making it over perform to what its design was intended to be for.

 

It is easy for you to say, playing a Soulbeast who already did more damage than a Scourge even with the bugs, and now does about 20% more than Scourges can.

 

>The (no longer) ninja nerfs.

 

Dhuumfire is still ninja nerfed though. Because reasons.

[Ashyri.5426]

I honestly don't get the need of a nerf on PvE. Even if you consider all the crying "please nerf scourge" from necro haters, it was on PvP only, so why nerf it on all game areas?

[savacli.8172]

> @Ashyri.5426 said:

> I honestly don't get the need of a nerf on PvE. Even if you consider all the crying "please nerf scourge" from necro haters, it was on PvP only, so why nerf it on all game areas?

 

Tl;DR PvE wasn't nerfed, just bug fixed....which resulted in a nerf (~20% off the benchmark).

 

PvP and WvW got a true nerf in that shade duration got halved and Shroud 2 has an increased cooldown. So combine that with the bug fixing on the overlap and Shroud 5 skill, and you got a really gutted class. Had it not been for the shade duration cut I would imagine that PvP/WvW would have remained mostly unaffected if you were using Shades as remote nodes. The bug fix just made it towhere a Scourge can't plant all 3 shades on a point/choke and basically own the area.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

> @savacli.8172 said:

> Finally got a chance to sit down and look into this. Here's the not so TL;DR

>

> **Prior to today's patch**

> * Manifest Sand Shade (I'll be referring to the damaging portion not the shade summoning portion) was cast when Shroud 1 - Shroud 4 was cast in addition to the unique effects of their respective skills

> * MSS stacked up to 4 times: 1 Necro + 3 Shades

> * Unyielding Blast was applied at each strike which means you could stack up to 8 vulnerability in one cast of MSS.

> * Reaper's Might and Dhuumfire were tied to the casting of MSS not the strikes. Thus, every time MSS was cast you only applied 1 stack of burning and gained 1 stack of might.

> * Desert Shroud (Shroud 5) did not cast MSS with only the Necro present but would instead pulse Desert Shroud 7 times. The effect would apply 2 stacks of torment 7 times.

> * Desert Shroud would not cause Shades to cast Desert Shroud. Instead, they would cast MSS 7 times over which would apply up to 3 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of cripple, 6 stacks of vulnerability (Unyielding Blast), 1 stack of Might (Reapers Might), and 1 stack of Burning (Dhuumfire) 7 times.

> * Combining the Desert Shroud from Necro with the MSS pulses resulted in up to 35 stacks of torment, 21 stacks of cripple, 42 stacks of Vulnerability, 7 stacks of might, and 7 stacks of burning.

>

> **Post Patch**

> * MSS continues to be cast when Shroud 1 - Shroud 4 are cast in addition to their unique effects of their respective skills. However, Shroud 5 will now also cast MSS in addition to its effective. Though see the clarification below

> * MSS will no longer stack. So having 1 Necro = 1 Necro + 3 shades for determining the effect of the cast should their radii overlap over a single target

> * Because MSS no longer stacks, you can only get 2 stacks of vulnerability per MSS cast when traited for Unyielding Blast

> * No change on Reaper's Might nor Dhuumfire as they were tied to the casting of MSS rather than the physical strike. Thus you still only get 1 stack of might and burning per cast of MSS

> * Despite the patch notes, Desert Shroud **still** does not cast MSS when it's only the Necro. **This is, in my opinion, the only bugged portion of this skill**. The Desert Shroud effects are otherwise unchanged; you still get 2 stacks of torment per pulse.

> * Desert Shroud will correctly cast MSS if at least one shade is on the playing field. Shades have been normalized to correctly pulse Desert Shroud instead of MSS. Thus, due to the new overlapping rules the only benefit to having a Shade of for Desert Shroud is the initial cast of MSS. Otherwise you gain no additional effect as Desert Shroud from the Necro and Shades are subject to the overlap rule and do not stack. Thus, at most you now only get 15 stacks of torment, 1 stack of cripple, 2 stacks of vulnerability, 1 stack of might, and 1 stack of burning total from a single casting of Shroud 5. **The change in Shades from casting MSS to casting Desert Shroud is a new functionality not noted in the patch notes**

>

> **Other Notes**

> * Path of Corruption will corrupt 2 boons as you would expect when casting Shroud 2 around you and your shades. Doesn't stack, so you only corrupt up to 2 boons total.

> * Transfusion will only only teleport downed allies to the Necro when casting Shroud 4. The Necro also gains a healing AoE that pulses over 9 seconds granting health to allies or 2% revive per pulse to down ally. Shades receive gain no benefit.

> * Rending Shroud will pulse 3 stacks of vulnerability around you and your shades every 3 seconds while you are in Desert Shroud (Shroud 5). Doesn't stack. Thus, you cap at 6 stacks of vulnerability since the shroud only lasts 6 seconds. . (Note: I sometimes only got 3 stacks for some reason. Global timer?)

> * Furious Demise will grant you 5 seconds of Fury when you cast Shroud 5. Since this trait is tied to the casting of the skill you only get Fury once.

>

> Edit: So yeah, the skills were buggy and today's patch had the intent of correcting the skill's behavior which resulted in a nerf. Granted, I saw in another thread were an Anet guy said we would be getting some damage back in the upcoming balance patch but no where near where it used to be. So maybe 35k?

>

> Either way, like before, the frustration is mostly driven in the skills weren't very well defined so what players perceived as normal was a bug to begin with, and now there's a bunch of upset players because this was fixed before it was really ever cleared up.

 

Could they make this crap any more complicated and confusing? I need a damn user manual to understand how this class works/supposed to work.

 

I still find it total BS that it was a bug. That's how it worked in the beta, it's how it worked on release. If it truly was a bug, it just goes to show how rushed PoF was.

[savacli.8172]

> @Spurnshadow.3678 said:

> Could they make this crap any more complicated and confusing? I need a kitten user manual to understand how this class works/supposed to work.

> I still find it total BS that it was a bug. That's how it worked in the beta, it's how it worked on release. If it truly was a bug, it just goes to show how rushed PoF was.

 

Bug or not, the sheer amount of research that had to go into this was insane. At the very least the average player at least can tell you what each skill does now without having to break out a PhD in Necromancy.

 

There's like a dozen other traits that would still need to be tested but for the most part they are tied to Shroud 5 in regards to "when entering/exiting shroud" or "while in shroud" so I didn't feel the need to test them all to see if they worked or not.

[Kuldaj.9518]

So basically once again.. they have started pushing any sort of necromancer towards the bottom tier in any raid/fractals? So basically necromancer is a bot class that is made for primarily afk farming with minions?

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @Kuldaj.9518 said:

> So basically once again.. they have started pushing any sort of necromancer towards the bottom tier in any raid/fractals? So basically necromancer is a bot class that is made for primarily afk farming with minions?

 

Yep..... fun isn't it ?

[Zero.3871]

HOLY SHIT! FIRST BALANCE PATCH ISNT COME YET BUT NECRO ALREADY GET DELETED BY ANET GG! NECRO GET NERFED AND NERFED AND NERFEED and fucking warior and mirage stay like they are. this must be a joke?!

 

why warrior and mirage didnt get nerfed with scourge? warrior bubbles are killing zergs.

and perma invul miriage while being faster than thiefs is completely OP.?!??!?!?!

[Lily.1935]

> @"silent killer.5732" said:

> > @Frostwolve.2916 said:

> > 30% seems like an over dramatization to me

>

> Now we will back to being unwelcome class to the raids

>

> Yea thats is less than month enjoining with our class who can compete with the rest of the classes

> Then one or two years till the next expansion when they release another elite specialization and its gos on

>

>

 

Raids isn't the only place scourge lost all value in. Fractals as well. Before they could deal out enough damage to offset their abysmal defenses but now they have neither the damage nor the defenses. Since Barrier is reduced by agony.

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @Zero.3871 said:

> HOLY kitten! FIRST BALANCE PATCH ISNT COME YET BUT NECRO ALREADY GET DELETED BY ANET GG! NECRO GET NERFED AND NERFED AND NERFEED and kitten warior and mirage stay like they are. this must be a joke?!

>

> why warrior and mirage didnt get nerfed with scourge? warrior bubbles are killing zergs.

> and perma invul miriage while being faster than thiefs is completely OP.?!??!?!?!

 

i see your prety new to the necromancer in this game right ?

 

as a necro that is here since the release of GW2 all i can say is get used to this if you want to stay a necro.....

 

Necro is a 3rd world class for the devs in this game...

 

While Mesmer and Ele are the Alpha and Omega of this game.....

[Alwayshappy.2549]

This thread really makes me laugh tbh. If people need a bug to simply be able to kill a veteran mob they are not meant to play the class. Or this game in general, cause let's face it: our grandmothers could win with scourge (or necro in general). It's still one of the strongest classes ingame and deep down we all know it.

 

You know what I think? People know that Necro is strong and slightly OP, so when they suddenly lose to another class...well, that cannot happen! That class must be more OP and of course that means necro is suddenly worthless in PvE aswell (just because of a bug fix..).

 

Losing against a soulbeast and calling them OP? Lol. At least that means you lost against a skilled player, because Soulbeast isn't OP and actually requires skill to make it work.

 

It's not just necro's tho, every class likes to play the victim. They all think they got screwed the most. The only reason I'm posting here is because necro's..(and warriors tbh)...Well, if you can't even win with those, or beat a veteran in PvE with those...

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Alwayshappy.2549 said:

> This thread really makes me laugh tbh. If people need a bug to simply be able to kill a veteran mob they are not meant to play the class. Or this game in general, cause let's face it: our grandmothers could win with scourge (or necro in general). It's still one of the strongest classes ingame and deep down we all know it.

>

> You know what I think? People know that Necro is strong and slightly OP, so when they suddenly lose to another class...well, that cannot happen! That class must be more OP and of course that means necro is suddenly worthless in PvE aswell (just because of a bug fix..).

>

> Losing against a soulbeast and calling them OP? Lol. At least that means you lost against a skilled player, because Soulbeast isn't OP and actually requires skill to make it work.

>

> It's not just necro's tho, every class likes to play the victim. They all think they got screwed the most. The only reason I'm posting here is because necro's..(and warriors tbh)...Well, if you can't even win with those, or beat a veteran in PvE with those...

 

Last I checked, only one profession is not wanted for high end PvE.

 

Veterans aren't the issue. Everyone can kill them.

[Opal.9324]

> @Alwayshappy.2549 said:

> This thread really makes me laugh tbh. If people need a bug to simply be able to kill a veteran mob they are not meant to play the class. Or this game in general, cause let's face it: our grandmothers could win with scourge (or necro in general). It's still one of the strongest classes ingame and deep down we all know it.

>

> You know what I think? People know that Necro is strong and slightly OP, so when they suddenly lose to another class...well, that cannot happen! That class must be more OP and of course that means necro is suddenly worthless in PvE aswell (just because of a bug fix..).

>

> Losing against a soulbeast and calling them OP? Lol. At least that means you lost against a skilled player, because Soulbeast isn't OP and actually requires skill to make it work.

>

> It's not just necro's tho, every class likes to play the victim. They all think they got screwed the most. The only reason I'm posting here is because necro's..(and warriors tbh)...Well, if you can't even win with those, or beat a veteran in PvE with those...

 

No one is complaining about easy crap like veterans. Try getting into a raid as a necro and see how many people will be willing to take you. Then come back and cry about how OP we are.

[Alwayshappy.2549]

> @Opal.9324 said:

> > @Alwayshappy.2549 said:

> > This thread really makes me laugh tbh. If people need a bug to simply be able to kill a veteran mob they are not meant to play the class. Or this game in general, cause let's face it: our grandmothers could win with scourge (or necro in general). It's still one of the strongest classes ingame and deep down we all know it.

> >

> > You know what I think? People know that Necro is strong and slightly OP, so when they suddenly lose to another class...well, that cannot happen! That class must be more OP and of course that means necro is suddenly worthless in PvE aswell (just because of a bug fix..).

> >

> > Losing against a soulbeast and calling them OP? Lol. At least that means you lost against a skilled player, because Soulbeast isn't OP and actually requires skill to make it work.

> >

> > It's not just necro's tho, every class likes to play the victim. They all think they got screwed the most. The only reason I'm posting here is because necro's..(and warriors tbh)...Well, if you can't even win with those, or beat a veteran in PvE with those...

>

> No one is complaining about easy crap like veterans. Try getting into a raid as a necro and see how many people will be willing to take you. Then come back and cry about how OP we are.

 

Yes, someone was actually complaining about that. First page iirc. And yes, I actually play necro and have no struggles during PvE content. Not that people are going to buy that, because it's way more fun to whine and cry about bug fixes.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Alwayshappy.2549 said:

> > @Opal.9324 said:

> > > @Alwayshappy.2549 said:

> > > This thread really makes me laugh tbh. If people need a bug to simply be able to kill a veteran mob they are not meant to play the class. Or this game in general, cause let's face it: our grandmothers could win with scourge (or necro in general). It's still one of the strongest classes ingame and deep down we all know it.

> > >

> > > You know what I think? People know that Necro is strong and slightly OP, so when they suddenly lose to another class...well, that cannot happen! That class must be more OP and of course that means necro is suddenly worthless in PvE aswell (just because of a bug fix..).

> > >

> > > Losing against a soulbeast and calling them OP? Lol. At least that means you lost against a skilled player, because Soulbeast isn't OP and actually requires skill to make it work.

> > >

> > > It's not just necro's tho, every class likes to play the victim. They all think they got screwed the most. The only reason I'm posting here is because necro's..(and warriors tbh)...Well, if you can't even win with those, or beat a veteran in PvE with those...

> >

> > No one is complaining about easy crap like veterans. Try getting into a raid as a necro and see how many people will be willing to take you. Then come back and cry about how OP we are.

>

> Yes, someone was actually complaining about that. First page iirc. And yes, I actually play necro and have no struggles during PvE content. Not that people are going to buy that, because it's way more fun to whine and cry about bug fixes.

 

I do believe "raids" were specified. Can you honestly say you have no problems with getting into raids on Necro?

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @Alwayshappy.2549 said:

> > > @Opal.9324 said:

> > > > @Alwayshappy.2549 said:

> > > > This thread really makes me laugh tbh. If people need a bug to simply be able to kill a veteran mob they are not meant to play the class. Or this game in general, cause let's face it: our grandmothers could win with scourge (or necro in general). It's still one of the strongest classes ingame and deep down we all know it.

> > > >

> > > > You know what I think? People know that Necro is strong and slightly OP, so when they suddenly lose to another class...well, that cannot happen! That class must be more OP and of course that means necro is suddenly worthless in PvE aswell (just because of a bug fix..).

> > > >

> > > > Losing against a soulbeast and calling them OP? Lol. At least that means you lost against a skilled player, because Soulbeast isn't OP and actually requires skill to make it work.

> > > >

> > > > It's not just necro's tho, every class likes to play the victim. They all think they got screwed the most. The only reason I'm posting here is because necro's..(and warriors tbh)...Well, if you can't even win with those, or beat a veteran in PvE with those...

> > >

> > > No one is complaining about easy crap like veterans. Try getting into a raid as a necro and see how many people will be willing to take you. Then come back and cry about how OP we are.

> >

> > Yes, someone was actually complaining about that. First page iirc. And yes, I actually play necro and have no struggles during PvE content. Not that people are going to buy that, because it's way more fun to whine and cry about bug fixes.

>

> I do believe "raids" were specified. Can you honestly say you have no problems with getting into raids on Necro?

 

To add. ..without being part of a guild...that accepts you because guild.