Revenant Needs A Nerf

[Falan.1839]

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > @"Falan.1839" said:

> > OP has it right, there are tons of variations of Rev that are all very strong, (Core, Herald, Renegade), almost every stance is viable (with the slight exception of Ventari possibly) and you almost get a strong build. To make things worse, the Class has always stacked very well with each other, so the more Revs you stack, the stronger your teamfight gets basically.

> >

> > With so many strong variants of Rev existing, this unfortunately will not be an easy fix, since just hitting one or two key mechanics probably won't cut it.

>

> I'm done arguing over Herald, but the fact that you and some others suddenly start calling Renegade OP shows complete ignorance of the EP. Renegade has literally been the only 'garbage' EP since PoF launch. It's current position is still not 'meta'. Renegade managed to 'crawl' closer to being 'meta' only after the 'Big Nerf' patch that rightfully reduced power-creep for all classes. Please, try to at least play the class before posting such ignorant generalisations on the forum. Thanks!

> P.S. Been playing Renegade in ranked since PoF launch.

 

Did you watch the April mAT on EU which also doubled as MOTA qualifier? Do you know the Comp that won it, while definitely now having the best individual players?

 

 

If you need a reminder. The class hasn't been nerfed since - while others have been - and that team is playing a variation of that comp in the MOTA too (with Renegade and Core Rev, because spec stacking is banned).

 

The fact that Renegade was shit before the February patch doesn't mean it's in line now when other specs have basically been cut down by half.

[ollbirtan.2915]

> @"Falan.1839" said:

> > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > @"Falan.1839" said:

> > > OP has it right, there are tons of variations of Rev that are all very strong, (Core, Herald, Renegade), almost every stance is viable (with the slight exception of Ventari possibly) and you almost get a strong build. To make things worse, the Class has always stacked very well with each other, so the more Revs you stack, the stronger your teamfight gets basically.

> > >

> > > With so many strong variants of Rev existing, this unfortunately will not be an easy fix, since just hitting one or two key mechanics probably won't cut it.

> >

> > I'm done arguing over Herald, but the fact that you and some others suddenly start calling Renegade OP shows complete ignorance of the EP. Renegade has literally been the only 'garbage' EP since PoF launch. It's current position is still not 'meta'. Renegade managed to 'crawl' closer to being 'meta' only after the 'Big Nerf' patch that rightfully reduced power-creep for all classes. Please, try to at least play the class before posting such ignorant generalisations on the forum. Thanks!

> > P.S. Been playing Renegade in ranked since PoF launch.

>

> Did you watch the April mAT on EU which also doubled as MOTA qualifier? Do you know the Comp that won it, while definitely now having the best individual players?

>

>

>

> If you need a reminder. The class hasn't been nerfed since - while others have been - and that team is playing a variation of that comp in the MOTA too (with Renegade and Core Rev, because spec stacking is banned).

>

> The fact that Renegade was kitten before the February patch doesn't mean it's in line now when other specs have basically been cut down by half.

 

Yes, I've watched it. I'm not sure how it's relevant to your claim that Renegade and , omglol CORE are OP? My your logic, we have never seen DH and FB, thief and DE etc in one comp? Suuuuuuuuurely these classes are broken too since they also stack oh so well together.

-Speechless-

[Vinny.8146]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > Revenant extremely weak to conditions and CC, both of which are the **strongest** mechanics since February.

> > > > > Revenants can easily be stun-locked and killed in _seconds._

> > > > >

> > > > > When asking for nerfs, people need to look at much more than just numbers output.

> > > >

> > > > rev weak to cc? are we talking about the same class?

> > > > the one that can turn all the condi into healing with 30s cd uninterruptable heal? that can run with perma resist?

> > >

> > > Having perma resist consume almost all its energy.

> > > Also : Necro boon corrupt and Spellbreaker ruins it.

> >

> > ah so you can sometimes take damage if enemy has necro, cool.

>

> Not just Necromancer, but it's one of the most effective class at that job. Spellbreaker is also quite good.

> You could use a counter Mallyx Rev, but then it would have no energy left to maintain it's own Resistance permanently.

> Mesmer & Thief can dispel/steal boons, but less reliably and less often than those above.

> Sigil of Revocation is available to everyone.

>

> For the Rev to maintain permanent Resistance, he have to be surrounded by at least 3 teammates with conditions on them at all time, pick 3 non-DPS traits in 2 skill lines, and consumes 105 energy, leaving it with 20 energy total for other use in Mallyx. That's 42% of it's energy generated in 20s out of a perfect energy management, without a perfect energy management or without 1 of the trait, that's 51.22% of it's energy generated in 21s.

>

> As Pain Absorption is also its stunbreak, you can play around the Rev by stunning him at the worst time for him.

> If the Rev is alone, he won't have permanent Resistance.

> If the Rev is using all its energy to maintain Resistance, it can't really do anything else. If you see a Rev using any other skill from Mallyx, it means he won't have permanent Resistance.

> If the whole opposing team is grouped together, you have 2 points to capture for free (with 1 likely to be yours already).

> Immediately after switching out of Mallyx, it'll be unable to get Resistance back for 10 whole seconds. If you delete its Resistance at this moment, it would just have been 70 energy points wasted.

>

> There's so many options at your disposal, you don't have to stack them all to get the edge in the fight.

> Truly, the issue is from the unwillingness to adapt to the opponent which is the basics of a winning strategy.

 

You just don't realized that there's more players than rev in their team.... The fact that you need to track down his animations, buff bar, AND the understanding of how energy works and (predict) that his energy is going to zero to do something, is REALLY what makes him so cancer. Rev can be a pain in the ass even using all energy to maintain resistance cuz he can do a good ammount of cc while doing good damage, and if there's room for agressive play since he can just apply pressure with condis

Like some said, what makes rev OP is the fact that he's really the concept of adaptable gameplay without even changing amulet or specs, going of almost perma resistance to heavy cc and condi pressure just changing buttons that you press. That IS a problem.... Rev is the class that you see 2 out of 5 players playing him on enemy team make you think "that will be a HARD match", just tell me other class that can do it....

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Vinny.8146" said:

just tell me other class that can do it....

 

Firebrands, Soulbeasts and Mesmers are more of a Problem to me in that regard.

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Vinny.8146" said:

> just tell me other class that can do it....

>

> Firebrands, Soulbeasts and Mesmers are more of a Problem to me in that regard.

>

 

no mesmer cant do it, they have to devote defensive cooldowns to go in offensively.

from endurance to generate clones/rupt/deal damage, to shattering clones for damage and not having them for f3/f4 to

axe 3/blink for mobility

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Vinny.8146" said:

> > just tell me other class that can do it....

> >

> > Firebrands, Soulbeasts and Mesmers are more of a Problem to me in that regard.

> >

>

> no mesmer cant do it, they have to devote defensive cooldowns to go in offensively.

> from endurance to generate clones/rupt/deal damage, to shattering clones for damage and not having them for f3/f4 to

> axe 3/blink for mobility

 

I think you missed the "to me" part.

I've been able to hold my ground against two Revenants before, but those three are regular pains in my bacon.

And if the Firebrand isn't killing me, it doesn't get close to dying either.

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"Vinny.8146" said:

> > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > Revenant extremely weak to conditions and CC, both of which are the **strongest** mechanics since February.

> > > > > > Revenants can easily be stun-locked and killed in _seconds._

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When asking for nerfs, people need to look at much more than just numbers output.

> > > > >

> > > > > rev weak to cc? are we talking about the same class?

> > > > > the one that can turn all the condi into healing with 30s cd uninterruptable heal? that can run with perma resist?

> > > >

> > > > Having perma resist consume almost all its energy.

> > > > Also : Necro boon corrupt and Spellbreaker ruins it.

> > >

> > > ah so you can sometimes take damage if enemy has necro, cool.

> >

> > Not just Necromancer, but it's one of the most effective class at that job. Spellbreaker is also quite good.

> > You could use a counter Mallyx Rev, but then it would have no energy left to maintain it's own Resistance permanently.

> > Mesmer & Thief can dispel/steal boons, but less reliably and less often than those above.

> > Sigil of Revocation is available to everyone.

> >

> > For the Rev to maintain permanent Resistance, he have to be surrounded by at least 3 teammates with conditions on them at all time, pick 3 non-DPS traits in 2 skill lines, and consumes 105 energy, leaving it with 20 energy total for other use in Mallyx. That's 42% of it's energy generated in 20s out of a perfect energy management, without a perfect energy management or without 1 of the trait, that's 51.22% of it's energy generated in 21s.

> >

> > As Pain Absorption is also its stunbreak, you can play around the Rev by stunning him at the worst time for him.

> > If the Rev is alone, he won't have permanent Resistance.

> > If the Rev is using all its energy to maintain Resistance, it can't really do anything else. If you see a Rev using any other skill from Mallyx, it means he won't have permanent Resistance.

> > If the whole opposing team is grouped together, you have 2 points to capture for free (with 1 likely to be yours already).

> > Immediately after switching out of Mallyx, it'll be unable to get Resistance back for 10 whole seconds. If you delete its Resistance at this moment, it would just have been 70 energy points wasted.

> >

> > There's so many options at your disposal, you don't have to stack them all to get the edge in the fight.

> > Truly, the issue is from the unwillingness to adapt to the opponent which is the basics of a winning strategy.

>

> You just don't realized that there's more players than rev in their team.... The fact that you need to track down his animations, buff bar, AND the understanding of how energy works and (predict) that his energy is going to zero to do something, is REALLY what makes him so cancer. Rev can be a pain in the kitten even using all energy to maintain resistance cuz he can do a good ammount of cc while doing good damage, and if there's room for agressive play since he can just apply pressure with condis

> Like some said, what makes rev OP is the fact that he's really the concept of adaptable gameplay without even changing amulet or specs, going of almost perma resistance to heavy cc and condi pressure just changing buttons that you press. That IS a problem.... Rev is the class that you see 2 out of 5 players playing him on enemy team make you think "that will be a HARD match", just tell me other class that can do it....

 

I do realize, you know that it applies to the revenant too ? They too need to track what all the enemies are doing and approximately remember their cooldowns.

Tracking what players do is the basics of PvP. If you want to argue that the visual cues are not flashy enough, please proceed as that is an entirely different topic.

Revenant can only do one thing well at a time, but can't do as much as other classes. Other classes can do several things at once but different things.

You don't need to switch amulet on any class to do numberless actions like CC, cleanse, buff, stunbreak, ... It's not exclusive to Revenant.

[aelska.4609]

> @"Agramon.4278" said:

> A simple question to you all. If you think revenant so broken why you not playing with it? Why always necromancers and guardians complaining about it? Let me tell you a bitter sweet truth you are not talented to play with a different class. Not even "broken" revenant. Thief always been op mesmer either, in past warrior and elementalist too and now revenant. If they gonna kill revenant some other class poped up with new "broken" title.

>

> I suggest L2P, if you think x class is op go try, play, learn, investigate get some experience with it then talk.

 

The answer to your simple question: You must realize some people (like me) enjoy playing a class because it corresponds to their playstyle, which are very different between each of them. These people will not bandwagon classes easily, as they have found a way of playing the game which satisfies them, at the cost of a lesser "performance/reward" ratio.

 

The existence of these players is quite independent to the fact that some builds may be overperforming. Of course, an other category of players will see these overperforming builds as a virtual ladder to climb the leaderboard (over the first group of players) and this effect can be directly visualized through statistics: win ratio, number of players playing that build over time, build spread over a sample of the ladderboard (like top 100).

 

We do not have a clear access to these indicators except for the last one (thanks falan, on an other thread), where we can easily admit that revenants is over-represented, in a top 50 sample of last season, compared to the other 8 classes. In 3v3, we can't deny the supremacy of tempest elementalist on its support role; just to cite an example.

 

I hope this simple answer will help you have a clearer vision on the situation, and will help you in the future to avoid sharing overly-aggressive fast thinkings like "you say X is OP but you dont play it -> what you are saying is dumb and you are a bad player and you should L2P".

 

[TallBarr.2184]

Nerf condi rev

[ollbirtan.2915]

Nerf theef while you are at it. Thanks

[Azreell.1568]

Sorry but Rev is not any more powerful then any of the other meta classes.

 

The issue this game has always had is the 1v1 heroes that think every game mode should be balanced off their classes ability to 1v1 The class in question.

 

Play as a team and all of the sudden the Condi rev starts to not look nearly as powerful.

 

Play as solo q players and run at it 1 by 1 yes it will be a tough fight but I can say that about a bunch of other classes as well.

 

Never understood the logic.............

[ScottBroChill.3254]

They need to take the damage off the aa chains and start putting more of it on skills with energy costs.

[lare.5129]

> @"MTC.9536" said:

> 1. 15 out of the top20 players are Revenant mains for the last season.

> 2. The April monthly was literally won by 3 Revenants.

> 3. Every top team plays 1-2 Revs as an absolute must.

>

> What are your thoughts? Please upvote this and comment so the developers see it.

Don't see any problem. This is GiudWars2 - any can choose any build/class and get fun. If someone not feel fun - problem not in class, or build.

 

Someone disturb you take same condi rev build ? - No

Someone disturb you take any class and biuld ? - No

So why we should worry ? we have perfect mmr system. It drop player on same win/lose match-ups.

 

So no matter how strong or weak some class is is - we will get same by level opponents.

 

15 out of the top20 players ? not sure that this is true. Top player have 2-4 class biuld on hot swap, to we can't point specific class to top player.. . But this is no matter too. So they will play with themselves. No any reason to worry.

[mistsim.2748]

this season is so stupid. the higher up I got in Plat, the more double Malyx/Glint I see. for months we've been begging for a shave. ANet totally AFK.