Arms Trait line rework attempt

[Edge.8724]

Hello!

I tried to do something with Arms that might or might not help it. These are only ideas but feedback from veterans, positive and negative is always appreciated!

I just had some ideas and wanted to write then here and sees if others would like it or not.

I can perfectly understand if you don't like it, I can take criticism.

 

My goal here; since warrior has never been truly full condi in his build (even berserker condi does respectable power damage) I tried to keep the hybrid view but I attempted to make something better (in my opinion).

 

As a side note, my english might not be perfect, sorry for that!

 

Here it is:

 

Arms

 

Minor Adept: Furious Burst

(Unchanged)

 

Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision

=Changed to : Fire Arrow

Longbow's auto attacks inflicts Burning for 2 seconds. Longbow skills recharge are reduced by 20%

 

Major Adept 2 : Signet Mastery

(Unchanged)

 

Major Adept 3 : Opportunist

(Unchanged) (or I don't have any ideas to replace it)

 

Minor Master : Deep Strikes

=Changed to:

Gain 10% critical hit chance against a bleeding foe.

 

Major Master 1 : Unsuspecting Foe

=Changed to: Blademaster

Gain expertise (+120). Gain condition damage (+120) while wielding a sword. Sword Skills gain reduced recharge (-20%).

 

Major Master 2 : Sundering Burst

(Unchanged)

 

Major Master 3 : Blademaster

=Moved to Major Master 1

=New trait: Swordsmanship

Gain Precision (+120). Gain Power (+120) while wielding a sword. Sword Skills gain reduced recharge. Sword burst skill is replaced with Spin Attack.

 

>Spin Attack (Burst Skill)

Execute a circular attack with your sword (taking sword skill 2 animation from revenant as inspiration) that bleeds and immobilise up to 5 foes.

Damage : 600 (2.0)

Bleeding: 2 stack for 4 seconds

Immobilise: 1 second

 

Minor Grandmaster: Bloodlust

(Unchanged)

 

Major Grandmaster 1: Burst Precision

==Moved to Major Grandmaster 3. Reduced Critical hit chance from 100% to 50%.

 

Major Grandmaster 2: Furious

==Moved to Major Grandmaster 1.

 

Major Grandmaster 3: Dual Wielding

== Moved to Grandmaster 2.

[Lametoile.7394]

Hello!

 

While I definitely agree Arms needs a major rework, this doesn't seems serious at all.

 

Concretely: The only changes pointed out would be:

 

- Take a small part from cracked shot (ie burning arrows) and make it replace one of the few useful traits of the line. Definitely a bad idea.

- Changing deep strikes. A fine suggestion actually. We would probably lose dps as pure condi but that extra crit chance would have versatility

- Give sword one more specific trait (which go against a core rule of one specific trait by weapon) that would ALSO change the burst skill...We're talking about wish-fulfillment here. There's no way it happens.

[Edge.8724]

> @"Lametoile.7394" said:

> Hello!

>

> While I definitely agree Arms needs a major rework, this doesn't seems serious at all.

>

> Concretely: The only changes pointed out would be:

>

> - Take a small part from cracked shot (ie burning arrows) and make it replace one of the few useful traits of the line. Definitely a bad idea.

> - Changing deep strikes. A fine suggestion actually. We would probably lose dps as pure condi but that extra crit chance would have versatility

> - Give sword one more specific trait (which go against a core rule of one specific trait by weapon) that would ALSO change the burst skill...We're talking about wish-fulfillment here. There's no way it happens.

 

Alright. I guess I was wrong and didn't come out with any really usefull ideas.

 

It's true that I really wish some things but I think I really lack proffessionalism too. Might have been a mistake post from me.

 

I hope we'll get a good rework though.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[Lametoile.7394]

Please don't feel bad. We're all free to share ideas here. I'm no professional either. I like to imagine changes too, but thinking in term of overall balance is much more complicated. But that doesn't prevent us from dreaming.

Go on and share ideas, and let's hope they'll give us something good next time.

[Teratus.2859]

Removing Unsuspecting Foe would make Arms less appealing for some.

Warrior does have a quite a bit of CC play which can take good use of this trait, Mace 3-5, Physical skills etc

 

I use Arms on one of my warrior builds for the duel wielding mostly.

Of all the traits on the line I think Deep Strikes, Bloodlust and Burst Precision are the ones that seem to be most in need of a change.

2 minors functioning to only really benefit conditions which are completely wasted if you're not running a condi or hybrid build or you're not using a MH Sword.

So MH Axe/Mace, Dagger running Duel Wielding is kinda wasting these traits imo.

And one Grandmaster that seems kind of worthless to me.. are you really going to take a whole traitline with 2 bad minors for guaranteed burst crits?.. I highly doubt it.

 

This is one reason I choose to go with MH Sword over Axe on my mostly power build so I could take advantage of these minor traits.

I can maintain perma fury so I get a constant +180 condi damage stat increse from Deep Strikes which boosts my bleeds a little.

Plus I have almost max Crit chance so extra bleeds and bleed duration helps make the Sword bleeds just a bit better, specially if you add the buff from 25 might stacks.

If I were not running MH sword these would be totally wasted imo.

 

As for the Grandmaster Burst Precision.. yeah totally not worth taking under pretty much any circumstances if you ask me.. you're far better off relying on basic Crit Chance.

The only burst skills this really benefits anyway are Flurry, Combustive Shot since they are multi hit skills and each hit will crit with this trait.

One of those requires MH Sword anyway and the other is for Bow.. which is also a condi weapon so yeah.. Burst Precision is trash imo and a completely wasted Grandmaster that would probably be better suited to a minor trait role or at least an adept trait.

 

I don't have much of a head for balance but here's what I'd do,

 

First off, Merge Deep Strikes into Furious Burst.

Minor Adept: Furious Burst.

"Using a burst skill grants fury, Gain condition damage when you have fury."

(Condition damage should be reduced from 180 to either 100, 120 or 150.)

 

Secondly move Bloodlust from Minor Grandmaster to Minor Master.

Minor Master: Bloodlust.

"You have a chance to inflict bleeding on critical hits, and bleeds that you apply last longer."

(Since these bleeds apply on crits and don't require a specific weapon like Sword I guess they're fine.. though the bleed damage could use a general buff perhaps.)

 

Thirdly, New Minor Grandmaster trait.

Minor Grandmaster: Burst Precision.

"Burst skills have an increased critical chance."

(Critical chance reduced from 100% chance to 50% or 33% I think this trait is far better suited to be a minor with a lower crit chance buff to your current crit chance.)

 

This free's up Arms for a new Grandmaster trait that could grealy add to the appeal of choosing this traitline.

I don't have many ideas on what this trait could be but perhaps something that specifically benefits 2 handed weapons could be worth looking at.

Duel Wielding is a great trait for singular weapons, helps a lot for the slow mace and a nice DPS buff for Sword, Axe and even Dagger.. perhaps something similar for 2 handed weapons might be good too.

perma 20% attack speed buff would be a big boon for Rifle, Longbow, Harpoon, Harpoon Gun and especially Hammer.

Greatsword players would also get some nice use from it.

It could just be too OP though so I dunno.. specially for GS.. but it's something Hammer, Longbow and Rifle would definitely benefit from a lot.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

My take on Arms.

 

Change Wounding Precision to inflict torment when you inflict bleed (1 stack for 5s per stack of bleed). Since the traitline gives bleed on crit this would give torment on crit as well. GG sword is now beast condi.

 

Opportunist: Make this a flat 20% crit chance versus movement impaired foes. Make the adrenaline gain 10 strikes change the ICD to 5s.

 

This makes for 3 strong traits in the same tier.

 

Unsuspecting Foe: Add an effect on to it so that it inflicts 1 stack of confusion for 5s when you strike a controlled foe. No ICD. We need to be able to punish a CCd foe, and this will punish someone for mismanaging their stunbreaks. We had confusion on CC before, but it was not well implemented, but THIS is how to do it.

 

And yes, this would open up some 'interesting' condi builds.

 

Burst Precision's effects should linger for a number of seconds equal to the bars of adrenaline spent. That would make it much stronger and open up build options that do not require precision.

 

Duel Wielding: Either make the IAS stack with Quickness (ditto with Berserk Mode) or change this +15% damage and +15% condi damage. It needs to be both power and condi to cover the dual wielding options. If 15% is too high for you wieners then make it 10%. Anything less would not justify a Grandmaster slot.

[Lametoile.7394]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

>

> First off, Merge Deep Strikes into Furious Burst.

> Minor Adept: Furious Burst.

> "Using a burst skill grants fury, Gain condition damage when you have fury."

> (Condition damage should be reduced from 180 to either 100, 120 or 150.)

>

> Secondly move Bloodlust from Minor Grandmaster to Minor Master.

> Minor Master: Bloodlust.

> "You have a chance to inflict bleeding on critical hits, and bleeds that you apply last longer."

> (Since these bleeds apply on crits and don't require a specific weapon like Sword I guess they're fine.. though the bleed damage could use a general buff perhaps.)

>

> Thirdly, New Minor Grandmaster trait.

> Minor Grandmaster: Burst Precision.

> "Burst skills have an increased critical chance."

> (Critical chance reduced from 100% chance to 50% or 33% I think this trait is far better suited to be a minor with a lower crit chance buff to your current crit chance.)

>

> This free's up Arms for a new Grandmaster trait that could grealy add to the appeal of choosing this traitline.

> I don't have many ideas on what this trait could be but perhaps something that specifically benefits 2 handed weapons could be worth looking at.

> Duel Wielding is a great trait for singular weapons, helps a lot for the slow mace and a nice DPS buff for Sword, Axe and even Dagger.. perhaps something similar for 2 handed weapons might be good too.

> perma 20% attack speed buff would be a big boon for Rifle, Longbow, Harpoon, Harpoon Gun and especially Hammer.

> Greatsword players would also get some nice use from it.

> It could just be too OP though so I dunno.. specially for GS.. but it's something Hammer, Longbow and Rifle would definitely benefit from a lot.

 

I totally support the minor traits change. +50% crit change for burst precision seems a fine number.

 

As for grandmaster traits:

* Dual wielding to my mind neems to be renamed and grant +20% attack speed. Period. If you're wielding a one-handed weapon, you gain a +7% damage boost if affected by quickness (the attack speed bonus still doesn't stack)

* What about furious? I'm not entirely pleased with this trait. It seems like a much weaker condi version of axe mastery. My proposition: max stacks extended to 30, each stack gains refeshing previous ones (duration unchanged), burst skill giving +5 stacks.

* New Grandmaster trait: with this, we have a trait line about condi (wounding precision - blademaster - furious), one about damage (signet mastery - sundering burst - dual wielding) and one about exploiting cc inflicted to ennemies (opportunist - unsuspecting foe - ????). The new grandmaster trait had to fill this blank.

I would propose: "deadly opening": crit chance exceeding 100% becomes a chance to strike a second time (max 50%, this second strike cannot crit)

 

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Lametoile.7394" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> >

> > First off, Merge Deep Strikes into Furious Burst.

> > Minor Adept: Furious Burst.

> > "Using a burst skill grants fury, Gain condition damage when you have fury."

> > (Condition damage should be reduced from 180 to either 100, 120 or 150.)

> >

> > Secondly move Bloodlust from Minor Grandmaster to Minor Master.

> > Minor Master: Bloodlust.

> > "You have a chance to inflict bleeding on critical hits, and bleeds that you apply last longer."

> > (Since these bleeds apply on crits and don't require a specific weapon like Sword I guess they're fine.. though the bleed damage could use a general buff perhaps.)

> >

> > Thirdly, New Minor Grandmaster trait.

> > Minor Grandmaster: Burst Precision.

> > "Burst skills have an increased critical chance."

> > (Critical chance reduced from 100% chance to 50% or 33% I think this trait is far better suited to be a minor with a lower crit chance buff to your current crit chance.)

> >

> > This free's up Arms for a new Grandmaster trait that could grealy add to the appeal of choosing this traitline.

> > I don't have many ideas on what this trait could be but perhaps something that specifically benefits 2 handed weapons could be worth looking at.

> > Duel Wielding is a great trait for singular weapons, helps a lot for the slow mace and a nice DPS buff for Sword, Axe and even Dagger.. perhaps something similar for 2 handed weapons might be good too.

> > perma 20% attack speed buff would be a big boon for Rifle, Longbow, Harpoon, Harpoon Gun and especially Hammer.

> > Greatsword players would also get some nice use from it.

> > It could just be too OP though so I dunno.. specially for GS.. but it's something Hammer, Longbow and Rifle would definitely benefit from a lot.

>

> I totally support the minor traits change. +50% crit change for burst precision seems a fine number.

>

> As for grandmaster traits:

> * Dual wielding to my mind neems to be renamed and grant +20% attack speed. Period. If you're wielding a one-handed weapon, you gain a +7% damage boost if affected by quickness (the attack speed bonus still doesn't stack)

> * What about furious? I'm not entirely pleased with this trait. It seems like a much weaker condi version of axe mastery. My proposition: max stacks extended to 30, each stack gains refeshing previous ones (duration unchanged), burst skill giving +5 stacks.

> * New Grandmaster trait: with this, we have a trait line about condi (wounding precision - blademaster - furious), one about damage (signet mastery - sundering burst - dual wielding) and one about exploiting cc inflicted to ennemies (opportunist - unsuspecting foe - ????). The new grandmaster trait had to fill this blank.

> I would propose: "deadly opening": crit chance exceeding 100% becomes a chance to strike a second time (max 50%, this second strike cannot crit)

>

 

I wouldn't be opposed to Duel Wielding getting renamed and the 20% speed buff applied to all weapons.

My main concern would be GS possibly being too powerful with the perma 20% speed buff but then again Axe can get it and Axe is a good weapon by default as well.

Every other weapon would benefit from it pretty well though especially slow weapons like Mace, Hammer, Rifle and Bow.

 

I've never used Furious personally but looking at it I wouldn't say the stack limit is the problem, I'd say the 10 second duration would be..

Without quickness and 100% crit chance I'd expect it to be difficult to maintain 25 stacks of this buff.

I would think upping the duration time to 15 seconds per stack might be better than increasing the stack limit.

 

Now that you mention it, I agree the new Grandmaster should be something to do with CC.

Maybe something as simple as a flat 10-15% damage increase against disabled foes would suffice here..

(Daze, Stun, Knockdown, Launched, Pull, Knockback, Float, Sink, Fear and Taunt.)

 

This could have good synergy with Leg Specialist trait in the Tactics line that gives a 7% damage buff to movement impared conditions like Cripple, Slow, Chill and Immob.

More so again with Spellbreaker's

No Escape (Daze+Stuns also apply Immob)

Dispelling Force (Dazes, stuns, pulls, knockdowns, knockbacks, and launches remove boons.)

Attackers Insight (Gain Insight when disabling foes or removing boons. Full Counter refreshes all burst skills on hit.)

Enchantment Collapse (Removing a boon from a foe causes all nearby foes to lose additional boons.)

 

Could allow Spellbreaker to be a serious lockdown boon stripping monster which is what it should be able to be imo.

 

There's also the Mace and Hammer traits in other lines too if you want to specialize into a specific weapon and still focus on CC or just remain a core Warrior.

Will be upto the player then if they want that flat damage increase for stunlocking or if they would rather get the faster weapon speed from whatever Duel Weilding gets changed to.

 

[thehipone.6812]

Here’s my (admittedly amateur) attempt. Only concepts, numbers aren’t fully thought out. Some stuff probably overtuned, but not sure when I compare vs. some other class traits. Coming from a bit of a pvp perspective.

Goal is three lines each have clear roles/playstyle. Spec is generally centered around crit chance, vulnerability, and bleeding. Top line – land a CC and then unload on a foe w/high crit chance and some vuln. Middle line – dps line, not cc reliant, mainly affects one handed weapons and dual wielding. Bottom line – the bleeding line, sword oriented.

**Minors**

Minor adept– Furious Burst (unchanged)

Minor master – You have +10% critical chance against bleeding foes

Minor Grandmaster – Bloodlust (unchanged)

*Rationale*: the added condition damage from deep strikes really only helps sword, the added crit chance helps all weapons and the minor GM self-triggers to an extent.

**Top Row**

Adept Top – Body Blow moved here (weakness and bleed on cc)

Master Top – Unsuspecting Foe (unchanged)

GM Top – Sundering Burst – 5 vuln on burst hit plus 5 vuln on crit procs. Add “Fury has increased effectiveness for 5 seconds after you hit with a burst skill” (i.e., fury gives +40% crit chance).

*Rationale*: This is the line when you are running Mace and Hammer or heavy cc. Their bursts do no dmg in pvp, so the current burst precision doesn’t help you at all really. This line lets you maximize damage AFTER somebody eats a massively telegraphed level 3 skull crack w/o a stunbreak. Body blow gives bleed which guarantees +10% from new minor master, unsuspecting is 50% and the doubled fury is the last 40% so you have 100% crit chance on your follow-up skills after you stun with a burst. Maybe you can be a valkyrie bruiser but really hurt opponents on misplays. Body blow further synergizes with cull the weak if you take it. Or you might pick the adept middle one if you have another source of vuln…speaking of which

**Middle Row**

Adept Middle – Armor Piercing - You do more dmg to vulnerable foes (+1.5% dmg/stack instead of 1%).

Master middle – Burst Mastery - +33% chance to crit on burst skills

GM middle – Dual Wielding - 20% attack speed, 7% dmg with quickness while weapon in off-hand

*Rationale*: Burst mastery nerfed a bit, but together with fury and +10% from bleed minor you should still cap crit chance if you’re running zerk gear. Signet mastery goes somewhere else – I don’t feel ferocity belongs in this spec and unblockable feels more like strength to me, could go where body blow currently is maybe. Potentially interesting choices – assuming that you’re bursting with eviscerate do you take axe/axe for the added +10% crit damage from the 2nd axe ferocity from the discipline GM or go axe/mace and try to keep up vuln with crushing blow ( or maybe “on my mark”) to set up a burst with an extra 12.5% dmg? OH axe brings quickness on self but no vuln, OH mace has vuln and cc but no quickness. PvE-wise maybe a straight dmg modifier could make strength/arms/disc core power dps warrior a thing where you have perma-quickness? Furious trait is gone, but IMO was a clunky trait to try to keep up and adren gain seems more of a discipline thing.

**Bottom Row**

Adept Bottom – Opportunist (unchanged)

Master bottom – [Name] - Bleeding you inflict is more dangerous +33% bleed dmg. Gain expertise based on your precision (merge wounding precision)

GM bottom – Blademaster - sword trait 20% recharge reduced, gain +120 condition dmg for each sword that you are wielding. Final Thrust becomes (new skill) Twisting Stab.

Twisting Stab – has all the features of final thrust plus “inflicts stun for 1 second if foe has bleeding above threshold (5 or 10 stacks maybe)”

*Rationale:* Opportunist works with leg specialist, is a bit redundant on sword burst due to Furious Burst I guess, but I’ll keep it. War really has access to only bleed and burn, with only a bit of torment and confusion for berserker as damaging conditions. An enhanced bleeding trait is needed IMO -lots of other classes get similar. Sword GM adds a twist (pun intended) on sword – instead of saving final thrust until <50%, you get some extra mileage out of it and a hard cc on sword that could potentially synergize with body blow+cull the weak for some power/hybrid sword play. Or if you do hit twisting stab on a condi build, it makes sure that someone is going to eat a tick or two of the bleeds if they dont stunbreak and cleanse.

 

No idea how all that would play out, probably some obviously broken/OP stuff in there, but 2cents and all that.