Taygus.4571 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 > @Zaltys.7649 said: > > @Daddicus.6128 said: > > Regarding the JP, I don't even bother trying any more. My reflexes are far too slow to succeed; I'm just too old to react that quickly. (And, it has NOTHING to do with memorizing the path, folks. So stop saying that.) > It's all about memorization. There's no moving parts, so nothing that needs reflexes. The route is always exactly the same. It can be completed with muscle memory alone, I don't even pay much attention to it anymore when running it. The reflexes are in needing to be quick. .or the goo catches you. Even if you know what to do..if you can't position your camera and jump quick enough. .you fail. So yes reflexes are needed. (But, I just accept that it's not for me ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 > @Taygus.4571 said: > > @Zaltys.7649 said: > > > @Daddicus.6128 said: > > > Regarding the JP, I don't even bother trying any more. My reflexes are far too slow to succeed; I'm just too old to react that quickly. (And, it has NOTHING to do with memorizing the path, folks. So stop saying that.) > > It's all about memorization. There's no moving parts, so nothing that needs reflexes. The route is always exactly the same. It can be completed with muscle memory alone, I don't even pay much attention to it anymore when running it. > > The reflexes are in needing to be quick. .or the goo catches you. Even if you know what to do..if you can't position your camera and jump quick enough. .you fail. > So yes reflexes are needed. > > (But, I just accept that it's not for me ) Try replacing reflexes with dexterity and half this thread falls apart, or makes more sense. Not necessarily just directing this at you but more a general thing. Semantics and all that.....or, is it pedantic? You get the idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Reflexes would fit a description of aoe triggering that you need to quickly dodge. Where AoE are "random" Here it's the exact same puzzle with everything happening exactly the same at the same time everytime you try it. It's how you beat it, not by having super reflexes but by knowing what's coming and the muscle memory to properly turn the camera, jump etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titje.2745 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 i got angry every year when i tried this, this year i said i dont begin with it. till i talk with guildys on discord, and 1 said just try it. he tried it and completed it 2 times in a row. i thought oke.. i give it a try. i failed few times i was shaking. he said keep calm and try again. then i got to the middle but didnt know i had to jump down, so the green water got too high and i failed. he said watch some video's so i did. then i know i had to jump down. and again i tried it, and with some luck i got again till that point. i jump down and then i completed the puzzle. finally in 3th halloween year for me. before i started i raised the time from shadowplay to 2 minutes, so when i made it i kept the video for later to watch how i made it. i know its frustration but a noob like me in jps. everyone can do it. just try to dont get angry. btw scramble in tarir is more difficult for me to get bronze... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > Reflexes would fit a description of aoe triggering that you need to quickly dodge. Where AoE are "random" > Here it's the exact same puzzle with everything happening exactly the same at the same time everytime you try it. > It's how you beat it, not by having super reflexes but by knowing what's coming and the muscle memory to properly turn the camera, jump etc. Or just good old plain dexterity. It's a good word. It covers everything. Manual dexterity if you really must. Muscle memory and reflexes do come in to it as does learning the route, blah, blah, blah, redundant, blah, blah, pedantry, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade.5924 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @PlagueParade.7942 said: > Yes, all the armor can be crafted if that's what you're looking for and if you craft the medium head and chest piece you get both the regular and bloody versions apparently. I do not believe this JP should get any more nerfs. I understood the nerf of having everyone but you as a wisp (the amount of grief norns and charr got for their huge toons...). This JP and the wintersday one though are fine as is. It takes muscle memory to learn it. A lot of the people that I know that had trouble doing this were thinking too far ahead in the jp. It's one jump at a time. One turn at. A. Time. And once you have learned that one you jump to the next spot and learn that then learn the next turn. It is hard but when you finally finish it. It is awesome. It just takes time. (eh? you see what I did there? that little bit of a terrible joke. Look at my avatar it's funny right?! Huehue.) Muscle memory. Really. See, I have, unlike you, analyzed the WD JP. I guess I'm now going to have to watch a MCT walkthrough just to confirm what I saw in my two attempts. I'll bottom line the WD JP for you... 45 jumps in 90 seconds. Let's say that again.. FORTY FIVE DISCRETE JUMPING AND OREINTATION MOVEMENTS AT A RUN IN NINETY SECONDS, ON A PATH THAT IS DISSAPEARING UNDER YOUR FEET EVEN AS YOUR TRAVERSE IT. That's one targeted jump every TWO seconds, MAX, and if you miss even ONE, you DIE and have to start over. AND.. that 90 seconds JUST GETS YOU PAST THE SNOWFLAKES. YOU AREN'T EVEN FINISHED YET. Do any of you really get just how hard that is? Put it this way.. I can type MAYBE thirty to forty words a min.. that's looking at a manuscript, or notes, or whatever. That's ingrained eye/brain/muscle memory... that has taken me YEARS to develop. Y E A R S. Not days afforded by the Halloween event. "Shakes Head". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuickFox.3826 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I like the part where you hear the scary voice and perish in the slime. Maybe a springer or griffon would help a bit here. *hint, hint* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > You can craft the armor with a recipie you can buy. You dont need to do the JP to get it, its not gated. > Be that as it may, how does it diminish you if I get some token completion in a Holiday festival in a game? Is your ego that fragile that it would hurt you in some way to allow people to have their paltry rewards and complete objectives? > > Are we really going to be that petty over a Holiday event? Because you did not complete it. You can get the boots elsewhere, you're complaining over 5AP which you do not deserve as you did not achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalButt.5708 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 My ego is also not so fragile as to be deathly wounded to my very core by the lack of a five (5) AP reward due to my inability to complete a jumping puzzle in an electronic blip blop entertainment product designed for ages Teen and up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted October 21, 2017 Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 You all realize that something being challenging or hard by definition removes it from the "everyone being able to do it" category, just wanted to point that out, as some people don't seem to grasp that. Anyway.. so how about it Anet.. a reward for at least giving it a good try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I wish they would make the clocktower harder, and then put exclusive items gated behind it, so that JP pro's can get something rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > I wish they would make the clocktower harder, and then put exclusive items gated behind it, so that JP pro's can get something rewarding. Apparently wanting that is like bragging for some people. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > I gt some people are very sensitive for this, Maybe if they gave an alternate but equal reward, like, after after 50 failed tries you can chose to accept the "You tried your best", achievement which provides the gear box, and the AP, however, i locks The Clock Tower Itself, so you can never get that in the future, with the reverse also true, if you have completed the clock tower at any time, you can't get the You tried your best" > > Have this also apply to Wintrsday. This would only be sensible if you got HALF the AP and NO gear box, instead 3 ToT bags/wd gifts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @OrbitalButt.5708 said: > PLEASE stop TYPING like THIS because ITS irritating TO read AND is UNNECESSARILY HISTRIONIC Except when I do it. I do it goooood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @OrbitalButt.5708 said: > My ego is also not so fragile as to be deathly wounded to my very core by the lack of a five (5) AP reward due to my inability to complete a jumping puzzle in an electronic blip blop entertainment product designed for ages Teen and up This. Also I will add that sayyyyy they implement the "you tried" reward... whats to stop me from running into goo x times in a row and cashing out?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Me going to get my drivers license... I fail because I keep crashing into oncoming traffic. Dont obey lights. Run stop signs. "There should BE NO TESTS, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT GRANTS LICENSES OR SPECIAL TRAVEL DOCUMENTS THAT IS GATED BEHIND SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY DO YOU GET THAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meestercat.2748 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 There is a post on the GW2 reddit where someone has a video of their 4 year old completing it. (I’ve not completed it either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @Meestercat.2748 said: > There is a post on the GW2 reddit where someone has a video of their 4 year old completing it. > > (I’ve not completed it either) I would love to see a toddler rocking out the Mad King's Clock Tower. I've seen video of the Wintersday one (which is considerably easier). My daughter is only 3, but can tell based on her abilities in game so far that it is possible. I'm hoping to be able to get her to finish it before my wife does, and she has had a few years head start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewcifer.5198 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 I tried to give an actual real suggestion but it seems this thread is doomed to chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoarChaos.8320 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 There's no place for such a change. It's an achievement for being good enough at the jumping puzzle to complete it. And if you need it for the new blue book backpack you have the option to just craft the missing skin for completing one set of lunatic armor. So there's nothing you're missing except the achievement points for specifically doing the jumping puzzle, and to get all of them you have to do it 15 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > > > > > @troops.8276 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Samnang.1879 said: > > > > > > > > > > Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game??? > > > > > > > > > > NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title). > > > > > > > > > > 90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Loboling.5293 said: > > > > > > > > > I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances. > > > > > > > Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about. > > > > > > > Nuff said. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs? > > > > > > I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that. > > > > > > I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do. > > > > > > > > > > > > And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it. > > > > > > > > > > "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me. I'll look into the armor thing, and I'll see just how easy or not it is to craft it. Given the trend displayed in Ascended crafting, I'm not exactly hopeful at this moment. And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING. A timed JP is NOT a trial and error puzzle. It is an exercise in high end reflexes, timing, and memory, both muscle and cognitive. Trial and error implies that you HAVE TIME to CONSIDER and ANALYZE the environment, and the TIME to form a STRATEGY and RESPONSE. > > > > > And I AM not asking for a nerf... I want an ALTERNATE method, like say complete x pvp games, or spend x time in wvw, something like that.... OR a version of the puzzle that doesn't sink into the death goo. NON timed, NON sinking, NON insane, in other words. Take away any real rewards if you want, just give me credit for completion, that'd be fine. > > > > > I've expressed a similar sentiment two years running in regards to the Winters Day JP, and still remain hopeful that the devs WILL eventually see reason. OH, and BTW.. the WD JP is WHY once I DID my two tries, I quit. I had tried the WD the previous December, and just about threw my laptop through a wall after about three hours of continually dying and getting nowhere. Two tries was all it took for me to see that the CT would be more of the same. The bottom line is... don't put ANYTHING, achievement points, gold, rewards, ANYTHING, behind something that CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. And I'd have to say that it's clear that TIMED JP's fall into that category. Last thing... I AM an older gamer and NO, I don't do raids, as a matter of fact. And that's part of my problem DOING this sort of puzzle. My reflexes simply are not up to it. > > > > > > > > There's a difference between feeling "frustrated" by content that you can't do and insulting players, like you did. One is taking a game too seriously, the other is attacking players not even because they were mean to you or anything but simply because they've done it, and are discussing how they're doing it with much more ease now that they assimilated how to do it. > > > > The clock tower is 100% trial and error. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that, and it's backed by a lot of people here who've actually done it more than 2 times. > > > > > > > > This is non sense to give you "completion" credit for something you haven't completed. Like... at all. I can discuss the argument that some stuff (like armor) is gated behind content that may seem challenging (but it's not gated since you can craft it), I don't have a problem with an easier version like SAB does, however if you haven't completed the "normal" tower, you haven't completed it. > > > > > > > > About your last paragraph... seriously if you want everything to be doable by everyone go play a telltale game that gives achievements for everyone. Seriously, this is a MMO, there is casual stuff, there is grind stuff, there is challenging stuff. Play what you like to play in this game and accept the fact that there's stuff in this game that isn't for you. AP, gold, rewards are gated behind everything and every mode. > > > > Unless you play WvW, PVP, PVE and Raids, you're gonna miss some of them, and that shows some self entitlement to want to remove some rewards just because you can't get rank 2000 in wvw, just because you can't win a pvp tournament, just because you can't finish all raids or just because you can't do a jumping puzzle! > > > > Oh and they should remove prenium skins I guess, since not everyone can farm the gold and not everyone has a heavy credit card? > > > > > > > > Like seriously please realize how you would be impacting others by getting things done your way. Nobody can get everything, half of the fun is the journey to get there. > > > > > > Insulting players. NO, I made a comment based on MY experience, observation and analysis. Obviously you didn't, since YOU missed the part on MY woes w/ the WD JP. EXPERIENCE AND WISDOM told me to NOT waste my time on something that I KNEW I wasn't going to be able to complete. See my muscle memory post in this thread for more detail. > > You did call players out for being on drugs or just kids, that's kind of an insult in my book. > > "Obviously" you're not gonna get anything out of that. > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > Obviously you ALSO misunderstood my point about making a NON insane version of the MCT puzzle, One that would ONLY give a complete note or whatever, NOT rewards like AP's or skins or whatever. And you TOTALLY seem to be UNABLE to grasp the concept of this is game for EVERYONE. > > > There should BE NO CONTENT, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT GRANTS POINTS OR SPECIAL REWARDS THAT IS GATED BEHIND SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. THIS IS A M M O. DO YOU GET THAT? If said content grants a title or something similar that HAS NO VALUE BEYOND BRAGGING RIGHTS, then that's fine. IF you want a medal, go try out for the Olympics. IF you want a prize, go cure cancer or get two uber hostile countries to make peace. IF You want some bada$$ online gaming title, go become Halo V reigning deathmatch title holder or something like that. > > > Nuff said. > > > > Kinda hard since your logic is completely flawed. > > "This is a MMO so all content should be doable by everyone" Ah yeah? says who? I love when people throw their own opinions as objective truth. "Obviously" not everyone agree and you need to do a bit more work to convince people. > > Also, who are you to tell us what is fine or not? seriously what kind of self entitled individual dictate that it's ok to want super title to brag but somehow skins aren't ok? > > What do you do about prenium skins? Should they all disappear too because you decided EVERYONE SHOULD GET THEM BECAUSE ITS A M.M.O. DO YOU GET THAT? > > > > What even is "something that cannot be done by everyone". PVP tournaments are doable by everyone, but not everyone win, so not everyone get the gold mini pet, should they remove that too for you?? > > > > YES I GET IT THIS IS A MMO > > And NO I do NOT agree that everything should be accessible for everyone. Actually it is accessible for everyone, but everyone has to achieve the same task, it is perfectly fine if some rewards are gated behind specific content because this is a video games and you must think about EVERYONE, not just the guy who wants everything now right now. > > > > This game IS for everyone, like you said. > > OBVIOUSLY > > > If something is gated behind a content that, as has been determined, CANNOT be done by everyone, then it isn't FOR everyone. ANYONE can PvP, it's combat, and frankly, if you can't DO combat, why are you even playing GW2? Anyone CAN WvW, it's combat again. Can everyone finish first place? Obviously NOT. So getting a special trophy for that, or a title, or a skin, OK. If anyone puts in the time, and also has a good team, uses a good build, then they have a chance to earn it. Not necessarily a good chance, but there you go. > But for a Jumping Puzzle to be made SO difficult that only people w/ a certain high degree of dexterity, manual speed and co-ordination are the ONLY ones that CAN complete it.. and then put prizes or whatever for completion... this is NOT the Olympics. This is a game. And you continually fail to grasp that point. Premium skins? Sell them at the cash shop. And you might want to check your own opinions etc ... who are you to tell me that I am wrong? So... wait. You can see and understand that pvp requires time, practice, getting good... that not everyone will get the final reward but that there's a journey/training to get there. So what do you do about people who can't get as good as the best players, what do you do of your "content that grants special rewards should be done by everyone" in this case, or are you now the one bragging that everyone should be able to play pvp and get to the top of the podium? Yet, for some reason the same logic isn't applied to this jumping puzzle, that other people have spent time learning, and are now doing it without much difficulty (there's a youtube video of a 5yo doing this JP, FYI). No... somehow... somehow? It's not the same, somehow it's not okay.... because this involves a different set of skills that are dexterity (cause pvp doesn't?!) "manual speed" and coordination? So yeah, I absolutely fail to grasp that point, ESPECIALLY now that you tell me pvp is okay but jp isn't. If anything, pvp is closer to the concept of "Olympics", and much less people will accede the final rewards of pvp tournament. Who am I to tell you that you're wrong? Someone defending the right for everyone to enjoy all different kinds of content, and not to have their progress/achievements be diminished in favor of a minority of people who made abundantly clear they prefer/are better at certain content over other and are requesting these changes for their own convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > > > > > @Deihnyx.6318 said: > > > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > > > > > > @troops.8276 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Samnang.1879 said: > > > > > > > > > > > Can ppl pls stop complaining about the difficulty of things in this game??? > > > > > > > > > > > NOTHING in the game is that hard (save from getting god of pvp title). > > > > > > > > > > > 90% of guild wars 2 content is easy and made for casuals, hearts, map events, low level fractals, stories. this jp is something that comes once every year, let the ppl who enjoy the challenge have their enjoyment of the challenge instead of making anet dum down all the content cuz u can't do it. its not fair and unreasonable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think OP was 'complaining' about their own inability and not asking for it too be 'dumbed down'. Rather just wanting a 'different' way to complete it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something may be easy for you but that doesn't mean its easy for everyone. Just like how it was easy for me to understand what the OP actually meant. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some things may be relatively easy for most people but may take time and time is a commodity that many don't have much of. Or as the 'no lifers' put it 'casual'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was my point, it also stonewalls progress in many other activities, like the book, and the boots. If the clock tower was standalone, I'd be more then happy to avoid it and let people farm it for bags and whatever. But, since it's tied to a few other items, I don't think it's asking to much, to give a "You gave it your best" completion, after 100 tries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Loboling.5293 said: > > > > > > > > > > I'm fine with this. I can't remember how many tries it took me. I don't think I ever would've gotten it if not for watching other people beat it, as I tried to keep up with them. It was one of the best feelings I had when I finally beat it, and now every year I do it still just to help others get up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, if someone wants to avoid that high you get when you finally beat it, and you've been trying 100 times. I say, why not give it to you. You're missing one fun feeling when you beat it on your own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, after 100 times if you haven't made any real progress, just give them the achievement. My opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, there should be some kind of maybe checkpoint, that have to reach for it to count.. like say.. you need to at least jump onto the platform that comes off the tower wall at the start. I know I fail getting past that point a lot. But getting to it would remove the AFK players at least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the Winter's Presence scenario all over again. What really kills me is all the people who are "It's easy, anyone can do it". I wish I could take these people and subject them to a series of REAL world trials of skill. Say shooting, car racing, billiards, orienteering, baseball, basketball, and a math test. And then I wish I could GRADE them on their success or lack thereof in ALL of those skills TOGETHER, and then say... you LOST your completion of the Clock Tower and NEVER can have it because you're not good enough in all these skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because that is what ANet is doing by gating an armor piece behind this jumping puzzle. Jumping is a skill. Making it a timed event makes it DIFFICULT SKILL. VERY. Anyone who says otherwise is likely under 20 years old or possibly jumped up on illegal substances. > > > > > > > > Personally, after the FIRST TWO TRIES at the CT, I just walked away. That was three, four years ago. I think I accidentally went in one other time. That's it. I play games to have fun, blow up/maim/kill mobs, to decompress and enjoy myself. I don't enjoy JP's, never have, NEVER will, and to have ANY content whatsoever gated behind a JP, especially a JP that is CLEARLY designed for very good to superior hand to eye co-ordination and reflexes is TOTALLY INSULTING TO ME PERSONALLY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet needs to STOP insulting its customers in this fashion. I truly hope that THIS wintersday that Anet has come up with an ALTERNATE METHOD to gain the step currently covered by the WD JP. And I also hope that the next time that Anet considers gating something behind a uber crazy insane difficult JP, that they PROVIDE another pathway that is REASONALBE... and I also hope that they observe the stats on how many people AVOID the JP. Might give us some real numbers to talk about. > > > > > > > > Nuff said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow... I find it easy and a matter of muscle memory (aka yeah, anyone can do it) so I'm a kid or I take drugs? > > > > > > > I can't even imagine what you think of raids lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you're the one insulting players who like trial and error challenges. Anet is just providing some very limited content that is based around that. The Clock Tower is one of them and so is trial and tribulations from SAB. There's still (Thanks gods) a playerbase for that kind of content, or games like Dark Souls, Binding of Isaac, Risk of Rain, whatever, would not be critical successes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was challenging for me at first, I tried for hours the first year and I finally got it, and I will confirm what everyone else said, it's more memory muscle than anything, it's absolutely FINE if you don't want to spend time on that but stop asking for nerf just because you don't want to do that. > > > > > > > I don't care what real skills you have irl, it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you're tested on the mechanics of that video game, and you're not automatically right or legitimate because you're having issues beating some content. This kind of behavior actually IS typical of this new generation of gamers that blame a game for offering challenge, something no older gamer who played during the golden age of video games would ever do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that is why I was against the Eater of Soul nerf. The more you nerf a game, the more people want to keep nerfing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > "I tried for hours...." kinda says it all for me. I'll look into the armor thing, and I'll see just how easy or not it is to craft it. Given the trend displayed in Ascended crafting, I'm not exactly hopeful at this moment. And if you're insulted... that's too bad. Join the club, as I am insulted every time I contemplate having to do a JP for ANYTHING. A timed JP is NOT a trial and error puzzle. It is an exercise in high end reflexes, timing, and memory, both muscle and cognitive. Trial and error implies that you HAVE TIME to CONSIDER and ANALYZE the environment, and the TIME to form a STRATEGY and RESPONSE. > > > > > > And I AM not asking for a nerf... I want an ALTERNATE method, like say complete x pvp games, or spend x time in wvw, something like that.... OR a version of the puzzle that doesn't sink into the death goo. NON timed, NON sinking, NON insane, in other words. Take away any real rewards if you want, just give me credit for completion, that'd be fine. > > > > > > I've expressed a similar sentiment two years running in regards to the Winters Day JP, and still remain hopeful that the devs WILL eventually see reason. OH, and BTW.. the WD JP is WHY once I DID my two tries, I quit. I had tried the WD the previous December, and just about threw my laptop through a wall after about three hours of continually dying and getting nowhere. Two tries was all it took for me to see that the CT would be more of the same. The bottom line is... don't put ANYTHING, achievement points, gold, rewards, ANYTHING, behind something that CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. And I'd have to say that it's clear that TIMED JP's fall into that category. Last thing... I AM an older gamer and NO, I don't do raids, as a matter of fact. And that's part of my problem DOING this sort of puzzle. My reflexes simply are not up to it. > > > > > > > > > > There's a difference between feeling "frustrated" by content that you can't do and insulting players, like you did. One is taking a game too seriously, the other is attacking players not even because they were mean to you or anything but simply because they've done it, and are discussing how they're doing it with much more ease now that they assimilated how to do it. > > > > > The clock tower is 100% trial and error. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that, and it's backed by a lot of people here who've actually done it more than 2 times. > > > > > > > > > > This is non sense to give you "completion" credit for something you haven't completed. Like... at all. I can discuss the argument that some stuff (like armor) is gated behind content that may seem challenging (but it's not gated since you can craft it), I don't have a problem with an easier version like SAB does, however if you haven't completed the "normal" tower, you haven't completed it. > > > > > > > > > > About your last paragraph... seriously if you want everything to be doable by everyone go play a telltale game that gives achievements for everyone. Seriously, this is a MMO, there is casual stuff, there is grind stuff, there is challenging stuff. Play what you like to play in this game and accept the fact that there's stuff in this game that isn't for you. AP, gold, rewards are gated behind everything and every mode. > > > > > Unless you play WvW, PVP, PVE and Raids, you're gonna miss some of them, and that shows some self entitlement to want to remove some rewards just because you can't get rank 2000 in wvw, just because you can't win a pvp tournament, just because you can't finish all raids or just because you can't do a jumping puzzle! > > > > > Oh and they should remove prenium skins I guess, since not everyone can farm the gold and not everyone has a heavy credit card? > > > > > > > > > > Like seriously please realize how you would be impacting others by getting things done your way. Nobody can get everything, half of the fun is the journey to get there. > > > > > > > > Insulting players. NO, I made a comment based on MY experience, observation and analysis. Obviously you didn't, since YOU missed the part on MY woes w/ the WD JP. EXPERIENCE AND WISDOM told me to NOT waste my time on something that I KNEW I wasn't going to be able to complete. See my muscle memory post in this thread for more detail. > > > You did call players out for being on drugs or just kids, that's kind of an insult in my book. > > > "Obviously" you're not gonna get anything out of that. > > > > > > > @Nightshade.5924 said: > > > > Obviously you ALSO misunderstood my point about making a NON insane version of the MCT puzzle, One that would ONLY give a complete note or whatever, NOT rewards like AP's or skins or whatever. And you TOTALLY seem to be UNABLE to grasp the concept of this is game for EVERYONE. > > > > There should BE NO CONTENT, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT GRANTS POINTS OR SPECIAL REWARDS THAT IS GATED BEHIND SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. THIS IS A M M O. DO YOU GET THAT? If said content grants a title or something similar that HAS NO VALUE BEYOND BRAGGING RIGHTS, then that's fine. IF you want a medal, go try out for the Olympics. IF you want a prize, go cure cancer or get two uber hostile countries to make peace. IF You want some bada$$ online gaming title, go become Halo V reigning deathmatch title holder or something like that. > > > > Nuff said. > > > > > > Kinda hard since your logic is completely flawed. > > > "This is a MMO so all content should be doable by everyone" Ah yeah? says who? I love when people throw their own opinions as objective truth. "Obviously" not everyone agree and you need to do a bit more work to convince people. > > > Also, who are you to tell us what is fine or not? seriously what kind of self entitled individual dictate that it's ok to want super title to brag but somehow skins aren't ok? > > > What do you do about prenium skins? Should they all disappear too because you decided EVERYONE SHOULD GET THEM BECAUSE ITS A M.M.O. DO YOU GET THAT? > > > > > > What even is "something that cannot be done by everyone". PVP tournaments are doable by everyone, but not everyone win, so not everyone get the gold mini pet, should they remove that too for you?? > > > > > > YES I GET IT THIS IS A MMO > > > And NO I do NOT agree that everything should be accessible for everyone. Actually it is accessible for everyone, but everyone has to achieve the same task, it is perfectly fine if some rewards are gated behind specific content because this is a video games and you must think about EVERYONE, not just the guy who wants everything now right now. > > > > > > This game IS for everyone, like you said. > > > OBVIOUSLY > > > > > If something is gated behind a content that, as has been determined, CANNOT be done by everyone, then it isn't FOR everyone. ANYONE can PvP, it's combat, and frankly, if you can't DO combat, why are you even playing GW2? Anyone CAN WvW, it's combat again. Can everyone finish first place? Obviously NOT. So getting a special trophy for that, or a title, or a skin, OK. If anyone puts in the time, and also has a good team, uses a good build, then they have a chance to earn it. Not necessarily a good chance, but there you go. > > But for a Jumping Puzzle to be made SO difficult that only people w/ a certain high degree of dexterity, manual speed and co-ordination are the ONLY ones that CAN complete it.. and then put prizes or whatever for completion... this is NOT the Olympics. This is a game. And you continually fail to grasp that point. Premium skins? Sell them at the cash shop. And you might want to check your own opinions etc ... who are you to tell me that I am wrong? > > So... wait. > > You can see and understand that pvp requires time, practice, getting good... that not everyone will get the final reward but that there's a journey/training to get there. > So what do you do about people who can't get as good as the best players, what do you do of your "content that grants special rewards should be done by everyone" in this case, or are you now the one bragging that everyone should be able to play pvp and get to the top of the podium? > > Yet, for some reason the same logic isn't applied to this jumping puzzle, that other people have spent time learning, and are now doing it without much difficulty (there's a youtube video of a 5yo doing this JP, FYI). > No... somehow... somehow? It's not the same, somehow it's not okay.... because this involves a different set of skills that are dexterity (cause pvp doesn't?!) "manual speed" and coordination? > So yeah, I absolutely fail to grasp that point, ESPECIALLY now that you tell me pvp is okay but jp isn't. If anything, pvp is closer to the concept of "Olympics", and much less people will accede the final rewards of pvp tournament. > > Who am I to tell you that you're wrong? Someone defending the right for everyone to enjoy all different kinds of content, and not to have their progress/achievements be diminished in favor of a minority of people who made abundantly clear they prefer/are better at certain content over other and are requesting these changes for their own convenience. Except that PvP is progressive and on top of that you do get rewards for just turning up in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruk.3215 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > @Donari.5237 said: > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > Wait. What's the twitch skill? Please tell me what this is. I've beaten it, but if it would make it easier I would actually try to beat it a 2nd time. > > > What is a twitch skill? > > > > I'll take that as a serious question. "Twitch skill" refers to having very fast reflexes, being able to very quickly and accurately do fast-reaction motion and control in games. So OP wasn't saying some people or professions have an in-game skill on their bar that helps, s/he was saying some people are physically better at rapid keyboard/mouse action. > > > > (I am someone without high twitch skill, though happily it is not due to anything but being older). > > Ah. I'm playing with a controller. I would never beat this with keyboard/mouse. My hands would jolt way too much and screw me up. > I already screw up a ton with the controller but it would be way worse on mouse. Wait, you can play with a controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troops.8276 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Maybe after getting x far for y amount of times it could open an option to get some rewards BUT a different title and all your characters get training wheels permanently glued to them untill you complete it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 > @Uruk.3215 said: > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > @Donari.5237 said: > > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said: > > > > Wait. What's the twitch skill? Please tell me what this is. I've beaten it, but if it would make it easier I would actually try to beat it a 2nd time. > > > > What is a twitch skill? > > > > > > I'll take that as a serious question. "Twitch skill" refers to having very fast reflexes, being able to very quickly and accurately do fast-reaction motion and control in games. So OP wasn't saying some people or professions have an in-game skill on their bar that helps, s/he was saying some people are physically better at rapid keyboard/mouse action. > > > > > > (I am someone without high twitch skill, though happily it is not due to anything but being older). > > > > Ah. I'm playing with a controller. I would never beat this with keyboard/mouse. My hands would jolt way too much and screw me up. > > I already screw up a ton with the controller but it would be way worse on mouse. > > > > Wait, you can play with a controller? Yeah, I use xpadder to map it, but there are other programs. It takes some getting used to and you are usually at a disadvantage to keyboard users. (Not so quick to react to skills as you have to go through sets etc). Action cam has really aided the use of a controller though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts