Dear Anet, I love Halloween.. But.

[troops.8276]

C'mon guys. This is going a bit far. This is all just shuffling words around. If this was a proper face to face conversation then what ppl mean might be clearer.

[Taygus.4571]

As a person with a disability that affects my ability to play the game.

I feel the need to jump in here.

 

People with a disability are a minority. As much as it would be nice for anet to accommodate us, it's ludicrous to expect it.

We are not their player base..we are not their main source of income. Anet can't design the game around us, our difficulties vary and are often quite individual.

They can only accommodate to an extent, without affecting able-bodied peoples game negatively.

 

I understand and accept that.

 

Don't be using us.

 

[troops.8276]

Its really easy to put things the wrong way and to take them the wrong way, and to get caught up in the heat of the moment. I'm terrible for it myself. It's obviously an emotive issue. There was some common ground found earlier in the thread. Anet could tweek things and have mostly everyone happy(ish).

[Taygus.4571]

> @troops.8276 said:

> Its really easy to put things the wrong way and to take them the wrong way, and to get caught up in the heat of the moment. I'm terrible for it myself. It's obviously an emotive issue. There was some common ground found earlier in the thread. Anet could tweek things and have mostly everyone happy(ish).

 

Anet could. .sure. .but that defeats the purpose of this jp

The designer expected only 5% of players to complete it.

If they wanted more players to beat it, they would've adapted it.

 

They don't.

 

And as much as I would like the chance to get to the top myself, I don't need to.

It doesn't affect my ability to enjoy other aspects of the game. You don't need the AP..You don't even need to shiny reward. Move on. Do things you can do.

[Randulf.7614]

I've never managed the clock tower or come close. I'm happy not to see it nerfed or the ap given away like the OP suggests, but what does grate is the waiting between attempts. I spend less time on the JP itself than I do waiting for it to start. That is poor design in my opinion. I'm quite happy to keep failing, but waiting 30secs-1min between each fail is just dragging it out when all you did was mistime an early jump.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Syktek.7912 said:

>

>

> Implying something.

 

That was a wonderful video. In fact as a parent, I could not be happier to see children enjoying this event and doing well at it, which is why I would never want the tower itself nerfed, I want people to have their fun, and that child looks like they are having fun. Now, I know at my age, with what my hands have been through, to provide for my family, I will never be able to do the same, so I don't feel bad if there was alternate awards for bad players like myself at these kinds of festivities that gave the same skins and progress, but then again, I'm a adult and not trying to find self validation of my platforming skills in being able to do what children can do.

[Taygus.4571]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Syktek.7912 said:

> >

> >

> > Implying something.

>

> That was a wonderful video. In fact as a parent, I could not be happier to see children enjoying this event and doing well at it, which is why I would never want the tower itself nerfed, I want people to have their fun, and that child looks like they are having fun. Now, I know at my age, with what my hands have been through, to provide for my family, I will never be able to do the same, so I don't feel bad if there was alternate awards for bad players like myself at these kinds of festivities that gave the same skins and progress, but then again, I'm a adult and not trying to find self validation of my platforming skills in being able to do what children can do.

 

How many times does this have to be said?

 

You can get the skins!

And even if you couldn't, so what? Anet doesn't have to pander to the weakest gamer.

 

If you're such an adult. Act like it, and get over the fact that you're not going to get every achieve. And Anet doesn't have to give you alternate achieves either.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Taygus.4571 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @Syktek.7912 said:

> > >

> > >

> > > Implying something.

> >

> > That was a wonderful video. In fact as a parent, I could not be happier to see children enjoying this event and doing well at it, which is why I would never want the tower itself nerfed, I want people to have their fun, and that child looks like they are having fun. Now, I know at my age, with what my hands have been through, to provide for my family, I will never be able to do the same, so I don't feel bad if there was alternate awards for bad players like myself at these kinds of festivities that gave the same skins and progress, but then again, I'm a adult and not trying to find self validation of my platforming skills in being able to do what children can do.

>

> How many times does this have to be said?

>

> You can get the skins!

> And even if you couldn't, so what? **Anet doesn't have to pander to the weakest gamer.**

>

> If you're such an adult. Act like it, and get over the fact that you're not going to get every achieve. And Anet doesn't have to give you alternate achieves either.

 

In case you missed this, it was a request, not a demand, and there is nothing wrong in asking for something.

 

Now, you are also correct, Anet does not need to cater to the weakest gamer, however, historically that is what put GW1 on the map, catering to casuals was their hallmark claim to fame, and again, GW2, pretty much followed that tradition by marketing itself as a casual MMO in comparison to what else is out there, so, while they don't have to do anything, it's their game, and they can sink if they want to, they can try to appease anyone they want and alienate anyone they want in the process. Not my place to say or care. Not my game.

 

But before you talk to anyone about how an adult should act, you need to first know how an adult would act, and by your words, it seems that is not the case. Now, I can't help that you got your knickers in a twist that I made a modest request for an alternate reward because.. hey.. I'm bad at this and know it, and asked if Anet would mind throwing me a bone here.

[Taygus.4571]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Taygus.4571 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @Syktek.7912 said:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Implying something.

> > >

> > > That was a wonderful video. In fact as a parent, I could not be happier to see children enjoying this event and doing well at it, which is why I would never want the tower itself nerfed, I want people to have their fun, and that child looks like they are having fun. Now, I know at my age, with what my hands have been through, to provide for my family, I will never be able to do the same, so I don't feel bad if there was alternate awards for bad players like myself at these kinds of festivities that gave the same skins and progress, but then again, I'm a adult and not trying to find self validation of my platforming skills in being able to do what children can do.

> >

> > How many times does this have to be said?

> >

> > You can get the skins!

> > And even if you couldn't, so what? **Anet doesn't have to pander to the weakest gamer.**

> >

> > If you're such an adult. Act like it, and get over the fact that you're not going to get every achieve. And Anet doesn't have to give you alternate achieves either.

>

> In case you missed this, it was a request, not a demand, and there is nothing wrong in asking for something.

>

> Now, you are also correct, Anet does not need to cater to the weakest gamer, however, historically that is what put GW1 on the map, catering to casuals was their hallmark claim to fame, and again, GW2, pretty much followed that tradition by marketing itself as a casual MMO in comparison to what else is out there, so, while they don't have to do anything, it's their game, and they can sink if they want to, they can try to appease anyone they want and alienate anyone they want in the process. Not my place to say or care. Not my game.

>

> But before you talk to anyone about how an adult should act, you need to first know how an adult would act, and by your words, it seems that is not the case. Now, I can't help that you got your knickers in a twist that I made a modest request for an alternate reward because.. hey.. I'm bad at this and know it, and asked if Anet would mind throwing me a bone here.

 

It's still catered to casuals in many ways.

 

I'm a causal. I'm able to enjoy much of this game.

 

The Dev who made this jp..made it thinking that few would complete it... .5 years ago. So they made it for the "hardcore" crowd.

 

It's also important to realise that casual in Anets terms means horizontal progression and accessibility to game aspects regardless of the hours you sink or if you temporarily leave.

They don't actually mean it to be "easy", as evident by the many difficult aspects in the game.

 

But its still very accessible to the weaker players. There are many jp's you can do. Afaik, they have nerfed a story boss so more people can access and complete the story. They have offered an alternative route for the festival skin. So the accessibility is there.

What you're complaining about is AP. It makes no sense to have an "attempted achieves". And btw, I complete very few achieves, so I understand wanting them. ..but fyi, part of being an adult is acceptance.

 

You do not need achieves to have fun.

 

So what if there a couple of more difficult jp's for those who like that? Find other aspects of the game to enjoy. Move on, like the rest of us who have tried and failed at the jp. There's more to game.

 

Why do you feel you need an alternative reward?

 

 

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

I've completed every other jp in the game except two: the latest one in PoF (still working on it) and the clock tower. I keep trying to get into clocktower but that annoying waiting between rounds just puts me off. I get it. The thing has to reset because of the rising acid and other players.. but why the heck is it pvp in the first place? It's not like we can hurt other players in it, and now that they've changed other players to balls of light so their toons don't interfere with each other it begs the question: why bother with pvp at all?

Why not make it instanced and let us do it at our own pace?

Or leave it as pvp but hide other players altogether and have the acid display on the client-side so each person see the acid level specifically for them?

There are other ways to do this without that annoying delay between attempts.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @Taygus.4571 said:

>

> Why do you feel you need an alternative reward?

>

Well as I said many times over, it's a pointless festival, and specifically in the case of Mad King, it's so full of silliness.. it's just begging to give out rewards "because you're bad"

 

[Taygus.4571]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Taygus.4571 said:

> >

> > Why do you feel you need an alternative reward?

> >

> Well as I said many times over, it's a pointless festival, and specifically in the case of Mad King, it's so full of silliness.. it's just begging to give out rewards "because you're bad"

>

 

If it's so pointless. .why does it matter what rewards they give or don't give?

[FrizzFreston.5290]

There's already consulation prizes 3 times halfway through the JP that you can get each 4 minutes. That is, if you actually try.

Like people said, otherwise you can just enter, wait and get rewards for doing nothing at all. And that's just not good.

 

You could say that those chests need extra AP or extra content, I suppose. But they are there.

 

[DebraKadabra.5278]

I've been earnestly trying this year to finally conquer the Clock Tower (much like I did last year with the Wintersday JP), and even though my tries are likely getting close to the 100 range? I DO NOT want a pity completion achievement. I want to earn this myself, and I'm getting closer to completion.

 

A lot of it is indeed reaction time, but there's also a small part of picking a route that works for you and *sticking* with that route while abandoning parts of the route that are tripping you up repeatedly. Adaptability on the fly is key here, and I'll likely cry tears of joy once I get a completion.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> There's already consulation prizes 3 times halfway through the JP that you can get each 4 minutes. That is, if you actually try.

> Like people said, otherwise you can just enter, wait and get rewards for doing nothing at all. And that's just not good.

>

> You could say that those chests need extra AP or extra content, I suppose. But they are there.

>

 

I have tried this JP so many times and I legitimately never know there were multiple chests because I never even got to one of them.

But, I just crafted some boots. So I'm not missing out on that skin, only some AP. I'm also Missing out on AP from raid achievements, but I don't have an interest in raiding, so I am not that bothered by that either. I already have higher ap than many people in my guild, including some of the people who raid.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @katz.8376 said:

> [...] we're both in our 40s, neither one of us is able to complete the clocktower jp...and not for lack of trying.

 

What does age have to do with it? I am past 40 myself.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Taygus.4571 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @Taygus.4571 said:

> > >

> > > Why do you feel you need an alternative reward?

> > >

> > Well as I said many times over, it's a pointless festival, and specifically in the case of Mad King, it's so full of silliness.. it's just begging to give out rewards "because you're bad"

> >

>

> If it's so pointless. .why does it matter what rewards they give or don't give?

 

Why does it matter to you if I get a pair of boots (that I can craft anyway) from a pity win at a festival?

 

Do you get some sick glee that I crafted them or something?

[Nightshade.5924]

> @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > And this is what CERTAIN individuals on this thread seem to be totally incapable of understanding. Well said. I would add, IF you really wanted to be ABLE to compare the MCT or WD JP's to PvP or raids then BOTH of those puzzles would be available YEAR ROUND. Even better, If you were to treat these JP's like PvP, there WOULD be a non timed version of EACH, that would allow people to PRACTICE them. Again, all year. Then, to MAKE those puzzles truly like PvP, instead of there being a time limit design as is currently in place, there should be a TIMER instead. Then the uber talented individuals would know how they stack up against everyone else, say to the 100th of seconds.

>

> If you keep adding conditions to your statement after you've made it, yes it's not a good example. However what you said initially is that no reward, points etc should be gated behind content that not everyone can do. And that's it. There was no mention of timers or rewards for trying or anything.

> Now if you add all these details and conditions, and if your claim is to get a tuned down version of the CT for training, no problem. All fair. But thats not what you said initially.

> Feel free to look back a few pages to see the original statements.

>

> I also never disagreed about a pity title or pity reward, only that you cant get the "completion" reward if you havent completed it. For absolutely any other game (saved telltales level of games) it would be absolutely obvious, but here it is answered with name calling. This seriously got to stop.

> Do we agree on that or not?

 

1) Didn't you say you were outta here? I guess it's only ok for you to change conditions?

2) I didn't change conditions, I EXPANDED and CLARIFIED some things, esp. in regards to how to make the WD and MCT JP more LIKE PvP. Maybe you should read it again. Like say 100 times.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

I guess some dictionaries are quicker to adopt incorrect use of words than others.

[Raikidd.5803]

> @"Zoltar MacRoth.7146" said:

> I've completed every other jp in the game except two: the latest one in PoF (still working on it) and the clock tower. I keep trying to get into clocktower but that annoying waiting between rounds just puts me off. I get it. The thing has to reset because of the rising acid and other players.. but why the heck is it pvp in the first place? It's not like we can hurt other players in it, and now that they've changed other players to kitten of light so their toons don't interfere with each other it begs the question: why bother with pvp at all?

Is a PvP instance so that you can't use runes and passives to give you an advantage, i.e. rune of the traveler 25% moving speed.

> Why not make it instanced and let us do it at our own pace?

Because then the server will need the spawn a lot more instances thus stressing the server a lot more and creating lag and instability.

> Or leave it as pvp but hide other players altogether and have the acid display on the client-side so each person see the acid level specifically for them?

Are you a gw2 dev?

> There are other ways to do this without that annoying delay between attempts.

 

 

 

[Shard.4791]

While there's workaround to getting the stuffs from the JP I'd be glad if people would get the skin in a way that only requires moderate time investment. I'm not a fan of crafting. And mostly because the JP can be farmed for daily reward after that. It's like riding a bike. It's easy after the first completion(s). If only people knew all the tricks and paths, hitboxes, quirks.

 

The JP is in my opinion much akin to a rhytm game. You have a jumping rhytm that you memorize (very rarely react to) and then you have your mouse movement path which is the same too every time and linked to your jumping rhytm so not much reactions there either. Just memorization and planning. The JP can be compared to a Osu! or Guitar Hero song but what's coming ahead in GW2 is in easier to understand format (character jumping in 3d environment) and future actions show up in the screen for longer amount before needing action.

 

I don't see many places where reflexes come in unless you're falling off of a tilted cog for example and would need to jump and correct your path to save yourself but that shouldn't happen on every run. Correcting running paths shouldn't be too hard most of the time either, that's probably the most consistent reflex requiring part _if_ you're running fast. There's time to make the adjustments. Path spoiler: avoiding getting swallowed by the goo in the place you jump down can be twitchy too but that's avoidable too by jumping to the second platform that spawns. You won't even fall flat on your face by doing that. Am I missing more reflex parts? Rest of the puzzle doesn't have much of a time pressure. I've found that getting rekt by the first jumps is not recoverable. After that there's much more control over the character. Jumping around the bend is a hit or miss also. Can't reflex save something that's not saveable. :p

 

The first third of the JP requires work to get consistent at and there's a tight time limit (not in optimal path) but after that you can be a lot slower. So practice that. Experiment; knowledge is power. Excelsior. OK enough with the asura roleplay. Oh and if you have too large character or a buttcape/skirt obstructing your view take them off or switch to a smaller/slimmer character. Finding and executing a workable path requires that you see where you're at.

[troops.8276]

> @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > @troops.8276 said:

> > > @Nightshade.5924 said:

> > > > @troops.8276 said:

> > > > > @Taygus.4571 said:

> > > > > > @Zaltys.7649 said:

> > > > > > > @Daddicus.6128 said:

> > > > > > > Regarding the JP, I don't even bother trying any more. My reflexes are far too slow to succeed; I'm just too old to react that quickly. (And, it has NOTHING to do with memorizing the path, folks. So stop saying that.)

> > > > > > It's all about memorization. There's no moving parts, so nothing that needs reflexes. The route is always exactly the same. It can be completed with muscle memory alone, I don't even pay much attention to it anymore when running it.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reflexes are in needing to be quick. .or the goo catches you. Even if you know what to do..if you can't position your camera and jump quick enough. .you fail.

> > > > > So yes reflexes are needed.

> > > > >

> > > > > (But, I just accept that it's not for me )

> > > >

> > > > Try replacing reflexes with dexterity and half this thread falls apart, or makes more sense. Not necessarily just directing this at you but more a general thing. Semantics and all that.....or, is it pedantic? You get the idea though.

> > >

> > > No, reflexes IS the right term. A certain level of speed is absolutely necessary to do the MCT. Dexterity would refer to your ability to jump to the correct point/place. And that's necessary as well, but since the MCT is a TIMED event, if you lack the reflex speed, you're goo soup. Check your dictionary!

> >

> > Very nice. You missed the context though despite it kinda coming out in your favour. At that point in the thread there was a pedantic debate about twitch aka high speed reflexes for random things appearing in fps games versus muscle memory/learning the route. I felt that this was detracting from the point and that dexterity was a better general term. "they had the dexterity required to complete the JP" would imply that they had the muscle memory/reflexes/hand eye coordination required and mental dexterity to remember the route/recognise patterns too I suppose.

> >

> > EDIT: maybe it should be semantic and infer instead of pedantic and imply.

>

> If we're going the pedant route, you want to use "mental flexibility" or perhaps "cognitive acuity". I post again:

>

> re·flex. [ˈrēˌfleks] NOUN reflexes (plural noun)

>

> 1.an action that is performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought:

> "a newborn baby is equipped with basic reflexes"

> •(reflexes)

> a person's ability to respond quickly:

> "he was saved by his superb reflexes"

>

> •(in reflexology) a response in a part of the body to stimulation of a corresponding point on the feet, hands, or head:

> "reflex points"

>

> 2.a thing that is determined by and reproduces the essential features or qualities of something else:

> "politics was no more than a reflex of economics"

>

> Please go watch a Bruce Lee Movie if you have any more questions. High twitch speed in muscles LEADS to high speed reflexes.

>

> dex·ter·i·ty. [dekˈsterədē] NOUN

>

> skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands:

> "her dexterity with chopsticks" ·

>

> synonyms: deftness · adeptness · adroitness · agility · nimbleness · handiness · ability · talent · skill · proficiency · expertise · experience · efficiency · mastery · delicacy · knack · artistry · finesse ·

>

> So there it is. Semantics would be someone else finding some other definitions and TRYING to use those definitions to prove that theirs were more applicable or correct. They wouldn't be.

 

Lol. So you don't need any dexterity then? Never mind. Why is this thread still open though. Why am I even replying. Who knows.

Lol.

[sacredninja.5236]

> @troops.8276 said:

 

> > So there it is. Semantics would be someone else finding some other definitions and TRYING to use those definitions to prove that theirs were more applicable or correct. They wouldn't be.

>

> Lol. So you don't need any dexterity then? Never mind. Why is this thread still open though. Why am I even replying. Who knows.

> Lol.

 

I agree, Craft ur boots if u want them so badly and you are unable to do the JP. Or dont, noone cares, but the way this Thread is going i vote for Anet to close this.

[Taygus.4571]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Taygus.4571 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @Taygus.4571 said:

> > > >

> > > > Why do you feel you need an alternative reward?

> > > >

> > > Well as I said many times over, it's a pointless festival, and specifically in the case of Mad King, it's so full of silliness.. it's just begging to give out rewards "because you're bad"

> > >

> >

> > If it's so pointless. .why does it matter what rewards they give or don't give?

>

> Why does it matter to you if I get a pair of boots (that I can craft anyway) from a pity win at a festival?

>

> Do you get some sick glee that I crafted them or something?

It really doesn't matter to me.

 

But I'm still curious as to why you feel you need "pity AP"?

 

I mean you felt you need it bad enough to ask Anet to create an achieve.

That most people don't want.

 

But you can't give a reason as to why you "need" it so badly?

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Laurie.1698 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > Me going to get my drivers license...

> >

> > I fail because I keep crashing into oncoming traffic. Dont obey lights. Run stop signs.

> >

> >

> > "There should BE NO TESTS, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT GRANTS LICENSES OR SPECIAL TRAVEL DOCUMENTS THAT IS GATED BEHIND SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE DONE BY EVERYONE. THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY DO YOU GET THAT?

>

> I'll explain. this analogy you provided would mean you have a chance to actually kill, maim, or hurt someone. The issue in this thread is about a video game. That is all...

 

No.

 

What is the core of the matter is that someone wants X recievable without having to do Y because of Z.

 

My driving analogy a house of cards for you. Ok.

I can give you analogies till next year.

 

"I demmand you give my Billy an A+!!! Just because he cant do math it doesn't mean he shouldnt be able to get the reward of passing the grade!!!" (This actually does happen, at least in my kids' school/Canada)

 

"I cannot believe you would GATE full valedictorian scholarships and cash scholarships behind a 90% average grade!!! I didnt do any of my homework, i failed all my tests, BUT I SHOWED UP FOR CLASS EVERY DAY. DOESNT THAT COUNT FOR SOMETHING?!

 

THIS IS HIGHSCHOOL, DO YOU GET THAT?!