Banners again (suggestion)

[KIIIL.1860]

Many people want to see banners in the F1 or F2 slot.

And if you don’t do this, but give the banner pulsating x4-10 damage upon activation?

Of course, the banner will stand for 1 minute and it is not one banner, but the number of pulses per second can be ... let's say 1 damage in 3 seconds, I think.

 

Let's provide that periodic damage gives only a banner of strength to - 5 players

- Tactics banner gives cyclic healing to - 5 players

- Discipline banner gives the pulse of rage - 5 players

- Defender banner periodically gives protection to - 5 players

 

Traits give the banner a faster cycle

I think the slaves would be happy, what do you think?

[Fueki.4753]

I've seen only one person wanting banners in the F-slots.

I've seen significantly more people **opposing** that idea.

 

I'd rather have banners be instant than having them deal damage.

Arenanet would just remove even more damage from other sources to compensate for the Banner damage, despite warrior already having subpar damage.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

The only thing that needs to be done with banners is have them retain their current effects but make them "attach" to the Warrior when used rather than have it entirely replace your weapon skills. This way it becomes a mobile buff, that retains viability for groups while keeping it "modern" to the game. They did this for Scrapper Gyros...and it still makes sense "thematically" for them to basically wear the banner on their own body.

 

Changing it this way would also give it a reason to be used in other areas of the game. The mechanics behind banners is **severely** outdated and they need to be looked at again and be brought up to par with other party support effects in the game. Again, they did it with Scrapper gyros, I see no reason to not give banners the same treatment considering they serve a similar purpose; group support.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> The only thing that needs to be done with banners is have them retain their current effects but make them "attach" to the Warrior when used rather than have it entirely replace your weapon skills. This way it becomes a mobile buff, that retains viability for groups while keeping it "modern" to the game. They did this for Scrapper Gyros...and it still makes sense "thematically" for them to basically wear the banner on their own body.

>

> Changing it this way would also give it a reason to be used in other areas of the game. The mechanics behind banners is **severely** outdated and they need to be looked at again and be brought up to par with other party support effects in the game. Again, they did it with Scrapper gyros, I see no reason to not give banners the same treatment considering they serve a similar purpose; group support.

 

Park them on the back and reskin them to be more aesthetic. Make banner of compassion a heal skill that pulses healing around the warrior in addition to the stats. That way if you wanted to you could bring all the banners. Battle standard would have to remain in its current form though for the Rez/finish to work.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > The only thing that needs to be done with banners is have them retain their current effects but make them "attach" to the Warrior when used rather than have it entirely replace your weapon skills. This way it becomes a mobile buff, that retains viability for groups while keeping it "modern" to the game. They did this for Scrapper Gyros...and it still makes sense "thematically" for them to basically wear the banner on their own body.

> >

> > Changing it this way would also give it a reason to be used in other areas of the game. The mechanics behind banners is **severely** outdated and they need to be looked at again and be brought up to par with other party support effects in the game. Again, they did it with Scrapper gyros, I see no reason to not give banners the same treatment considering they serve a similar purpose; group support.

>

> Park them on the back and reskin them to be more aesthetic. Make banner of compassion a heal skill that pulses healing around the warrior in addition to the stats. That way if you wanted to you could bring all the banners. Battle standard would have to remain in its current form though for the Rez/finish to work.

 

Technically they could rework Battle Standard to be worn, like other banners would, but while active it replaces your elite slot with a function similar to how it works now. Retaining its ability to be a ground targeted rez/finish. Its really not much different in function to the Herald's Facet of Elements > Elemental Blast.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > The only thing that needs to be done with banners is have them retain their current effects but make them "attach" to the Warrior when used rather than have it entirely replace your weapon skills. This way it becomes a mobile buff, that retains viability for groups while keeping it "modern" to the game. They did this for Scrapper Gyros...and it still makes sense "thematically" for them to basically wear the banner on their own body.

> > >

> > > Changing it this way would also give it a reason to be used in other areas of the game. The mechanics behind banners is **severely** outdated and they need to be looked at again and be brought up to par with other party support effects in the game. Again, they did it with Scrapper gyros, I see no reason to not give banners the same treatment considering they serve a similar purpose; group support.

> >

> > Park them on the back and reskin them to be more aesthetic. Make banner of compassion a heal skill that pulses healing around the warrior in addition to the stats. That way if you wanted to you could bring all the banners. Battle standard would have to remain in its current form though for the Rez/finish to work.

>

> Technically they could rework Battle Standard to be worn, like other banners would, but while active it replaces your elite slot with a function similar to how it works now. Retaining its ability to be a ground targeted rez/finish. Its really not much different in function to the Herald's Facet of Elements > Elemental Blast.

 

DONE! Anet, get over here and read this thread and make it so!

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > The only thing that needs to be done with banners is have them retain their current effects but make them "attach" to the Warrior when used rather than have it entirely replace your weapon skills. This way it becomes a mobile buff, that retains viability for groups while keeping it "modern" to the game. They did this for Scrapper Gyros...and it still makes sense "thematically" for them to basically wear the banner on their own body.

> > > >

> > > > Changing it this way would also give it a reason to be used in other areas of the game. The mechanics behind banners is **severely** outdated and they need to be looked at again and be brought up to par with other party support effects in the game. Again, they did it with Scrapper gyros, I see no reason to not give banners the same treatment considering they serve a similar purpose; group support.

> > >

> > > Park them on the back and reskin them to be more aesthetic. Make banner of compassion a heal skill that pulses healing around the warrior in addition to the stats. That way if you wanted to you could bring all the banners. Battle standard would have to remain in its current form though for the Rez/finish to work.

> >

> > Technically they could rework Battle Standard to be worn, like other banners would, but while active it replaces your elite slot with a function similar to how it works now. Retaining its ability to be a ground targeted rez/finish. Its really not much different in function to the Herald's Facet of Elements > Elemental Blast.

>

> DONE! Anet, get over here and read this thread and make it so!

 

So just to compile the ideas;

 

Banners: Rework to function similar to Scrappers gyros, "attaching" the banner to the Warrior while retaining all current effects that banners provide. No more picking them up, no more having them replace currently slotted weapon skills.

 

Battle Standard: Would be reworked just like all other banners, the only difference is that it will alter its function to one similar to the Herald's Facet of Elements (which turns to Elemental Blast). While active it would replace the elite skill slot with its active use effect, a ground targeted finisher/rally.

 

I'm going to exclude suggesting adding a Banner heal skill as that would give Warriors 5 heal skills as a part of the Core class, and that would throw off the balance between the rest of the Core classes as all others have 4 heal skills.

 

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" @"Cal Cohen.2358"

 

Gyros got this treatment because they weren't terribly great due to how weird they worked and their previous function was outdated and just didn't fit well. Banners are in this same boat, and its part of why Warriors are pretty much only ever taken for Winds of Disenchantment in WvW zerging, and why Banners being as stationary as they are is an outdated concept for this game. While they are still widely used in PvE, mostly Raids and Fractals as they are still potent enough buffs when placed, changing how they work while retaining all current effects (they do **not** need to be increased or decreased) will still allow them to retain their position in PvE content, if not just be a nice QoL change for Warriors. It might even open them up for more use in WvW as well.

 

Please do note that this is the **only thing** that I would advise changing in regards to Banners, **nothing else** needs to be done. The only outside alteration that would need to be made, specifically traits, is that Doubled Standards would need a little revising in its tooltip and how it works.

 

"Doubled Standards" current: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon or pick up a banner.

"Doubled Standards" after: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon a banner.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > > The only thing that needs to be done with banners is have them retain their current effects but make them "attach" to the Warrior when used rather than have it entirely replace your weapon skills. This way it becomes a mobile buff, that retains viability for groups while keeping it "modern" to the game. They did this for Scrapper Gyros...and it still makes sense "thematically" for them to basically wear the banner on their own body.

> > > > >

> > > > > Changing it this way would also give it a reason to be used in other areas of the game. The mechanics behind banners is **severely** outdated and they need to be looked at again and be brought up to par with other party support effects in the game. Again, they did it with Scrapper gyros, I see no reason to not give banners the same treatment considering they serve a similar purpose; group support.

> > > >

> > > > Park them on the back and reskin them to be more aesthetic. Make banner of compassion a heal skill that pulses healing around the warrior in addition to the stats. That way if you wanted to you could bring all the banners. Battle standard would have to remain in its current form though for the Rez/finish to work.

> > >

> > > Technically they could rework Battle Standard to be worn, like other banners would, but while active it replaces your elite slot with a function similar to how it works now. Retaining its ability to be a ground targeted rez/finish. Its really not much different in function to the Herald's Facet of Elements > Elemental Blast.

> >

> > DONE! Anet, get over here and read this thread and make it so!

>

> So just to compile the ideas;

>

> Banners: Rework to function similar to Scrappers gyros, "attaching" the banner to the Warrior while retaining all current effects that banners provide. No more picking them up, no more having them replace currently slotted weapon skills.

>

> Battle Standard: Would be reworked just like all other banners, the only difference is that it will alter its function to one similar to the Herald's Facet of Elements (which turns to Elemental Blast). While active it would replace the elite skill slot with its active use effect, a ground targeted finisher/rally.

>

> I'm going to exclude suggesting adding a Banner heal skill as that would give Warriors 5 heal skills as a part of the Core class, and that would throw off the balance between the rest of the Core classes as all others have 4 heal skills.

>

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" @"Cal Cohen.2358"

>

> Gyros got this treatment because they weren't terribly great due to how weird they worked and their previous function was outdated and just didn't fit well. Banners are in this same boat, and its part of why Warriors are pretty much only ever taken for Winds of Disenchantment in WvW zerging, and why Banners being as stationary as they are is an outdated concept for this game. While they are still widely used in PvE, mostly Raids and Fractals as they are still potent enough buffs when placed, changing how they work while retaining all current effects (they do **not** need to be increased or decreased) will still allow them to retain their position in PvE content, if not just be a nice QoL change for Warriors. It might even open them up for more use in WvW as well.

>

> Please do note that this is the **only thing** that I would advise changing in regards to Banners, **nothing else** needs to be done. The only outside alteration that would need to be made, specifically traits, is that Doubled Standards would need a little revising in its tooltip and how it works.

>

> "Doubled Standards" current: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon or pick up a banner.

> "Doubled Standards" after: Unique Banner effects applied to you are stronger. Gain swiftness when you summon a banner.

 

Sounds like a plan to me. Can we get this done for the next update?

[cryorion.9532]

What about this:

Banners take 1/2 second to cast (except Battle Standard that stays at 2 seconds cast time). Now, you know that revenant heal bubble skill, Ventari's Will? Banners would work similarly, where after placement, there would be a skill flip to aoe ground targeting and you can change their position (600 range). There would be a new trait in Tactics traitline that would apply small damage (like Full Counter damage in pvp/wvw) in small radius (130-180) AND leap finisher, both at the end of banner position change, providing combo field effects to warrior and allies, depending on combo field. Basically, the flip skill would be enhanced.

Picking banners would be much easier as well, in situations where you can't run to them (mainly in WvW). This is more about practicality rather than convenience.

 

Changing banner position would not refresh (nor change) its cooldown. Banner position change flip skill should have instant cast time for best synergy, most important is to choose proper cooldown on it. The travel speed of banner could be same/similar to Ventari's Will. In order to see how much time is remaining for a banner to disappear after placement, there could be added skill border indicator just like ammunition skills have.

 

Now imagine Winds of Disenchantment with moving your banner in it to cc an enemy you just stripped stability from. Or when you need some extra heal so you "rally" your banners on you while being in water field, etc. Active, big brain gameplay :)

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> What about this:

> Banners take 1/2 second to cast (except Battle Standard that stays at 2 seconds cast time). Now, you know that revenant heal bubble skill, Ventari's Will? Banners would work similarly, where after placement, there would be a skill flip to aoe ground targeting and you can change their position (600 range). There would be a new trait in Tactics traitline that would apply small damage (like Full Counter damage in pvp/wvw) in small radius (130-180) AND leap finisher, both at the end of banner position change, providing combo field effects to warrior and allies, depending on combo field. Basically, the flip skill would be enhanced.

> Picking banners would be much easier as well, in situations where you can't run to them (mainly in WvW). This is more about practicality rather than convenience.

>

> Changing banner position would not refresh (nor change) its cooldown. Banner position change flip skill should have instant cast time for best synergy, most important is to choose proper cooldown on it. The travel speed of banner could be same/similar to Ventari's Will. In order to see how much time is remaining for a banner to disappear after placement, there could be added skill border indicator just like ammunition skills have.

>

> Now imagine Winds of Disenchantment with moving your banner in it to cc an enemy you just stripped stability from. Or when you need some extra heal so you "rally" your banners on you while being in water field, etc. Active, big brain gameplay :)

 

Unfortunately that is overly complicated and not necessary. Banners as they function now, at least in regards to the bonuses they provide, are fine as is. They really don't need to do anything more than what they do now, however the way they **function** right now, mechanically, is really clunky and significantly outdated.

 

At this point in time the more complicated you make the "fix" the more likely it is to be the wrong path to take.

 

Take Berserker for example. For them to make it more viable than it was they did not need to do anything more complicated than just allowing the activation of Berserk Mode, which requires 3 bars of Adrenaline, to proc Burst related traits. Now they did do that...but then they did a large number of other things to it that I would say just made the entire Elite Spec just pure gimmick and meme, much more so than it was before. Sure they definitely boosted its DPS for PvE...but the way it used to flow before its rework in PvP/WvW was stripped away completely.